Dear List, I checked that link, it is not direct but if you look under "Local Headlines" you should find it.! Diana

Dear List, to read about the Archaeological dig in the Black Loch below is the url to the Galloway Gazette's account:- http://www.gallowaygazette.co.uk/news/local-headlines/scotland-s-first-iron-age-loch-village-uncovered-in-wigtownshire-1-306812 Diana Henry

Hi everyone on the Wigtownshire list, After a journey to Europe, I am back on the ancestor trail . McWhinnie, McKenzie, Kelly, McIlwrick and Luptons all around New Luce in the 19th century before they began emigrating to the British Empire colonies of NZ, Australia and Canada or shifting to the brighter lights of big cities in Scotland. Race 6 of the America's Cup has just finished with New Zealand (hurrah, cough, cough) leaving the American Boat Oracle behind. Today is a great day to be a New Zealander. The next race starts in about 30 minutes so cheer for NZ. Claire

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: BrownB38 Surnames: Dalrymple Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.wig.general/2168.1.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hello Bruce, thanks for tthose comments! I since found this site that seems to have those Wigtownshire records transcribed: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ainsty/1000/wig-opr.html His age discrepancy is the 1841 census must be due to the rounding down, as you pointed-out. I noticed the informant on Samuel's death record was his youngest son, Archibald, so I imagine he quite probably got his father's age correct, which would, on it's own, mean that he would have been born anytime between 17 Sep 1776 and 17 Sep 1777. Seeing as he was given as aged 74 on census day 1851, I'm reckoning that narrows the window down to him having been born in 1777 - sometime between 31 March and 17 September. regards, Barry Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: BMcDowall119573 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.wig.general/2168.1.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Barry, The Wigtown parish registers were poorly maintained. The numbers of baptism entries (from Scotlandspeople) for period surrounding Samuel's birth possibly explains why you found a record for Dorothea but not for Samuel: 1769 - zero entries, 1770 - 4, 1771 - 23, 1772 - 7, 1773 - 1, 1774 - 4, 1775 - 3, 1776 - 2, 1777 - 5, 1778 - 1, 1779 - 13, 1780 - 27, 1781 - 16. If Samuel was truly 80 on his date of death in 1856, he may have been born in either 1776 or 1775, depending on his date of birth. If he was truly 74 on 30 March 1851, (census night), he would have been born in 1777 or 1776 depending on his birth date being prior to or after 31 March. His age recorded in the 1841 census would have been rounded down to the nearest multiple of 5, (if the enumerator followed instructions), so he may have claimed to be 64, but recorded as 60. Bruce Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

I'm posting this on behalf of Carolyn Achata <cachata@gmail.com> Carolyn wants to know "What is known about Waterloo Plantation?" (She read http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE/2013-09/1378693156 and wants to know more about Waterloo Plantation.)

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: BrownB38 Surnames: Dalrymple, Mcknight Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.wig.general/2168.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Ok, I found his death certificate, his parents were John Dalrymple & Marion Mcknight. If his age on dwath was correct then he was born 1776. Of the same parents I found a daughter, Dorothea Dalrymple bapt. 2 Feb 1771 Wigtown, but no sign of Samuel's birth record. One step forward though, thanks for your help. rgds, Barry Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: BrownB38 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.wig.general/2168.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thanksfor the tip, I'll get some credits and look for that. regards, Barry Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: theta100 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.wig.general/2168.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi, Samuel died in 1856 age 80 at Carriden so his death certificate is available online on Scotlands People and this will give his parents names. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: BrownB38 Surnames: Dalrymple, Laing Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.wig.general/2168/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Can anyone please help me identify the parents/family of Samuel Dalrymple, found in the 1841 & 1851 censuses as a schoolmaster in Muirhouses Village, Carriden, West Lothian (Linlithgowshire). The 1841 census gave his place and date of birth.as Wigtown 1781,the 1851 census as Galloway, Wigtown 1777. He married Isabella Laing 6 Oct 1812 Bo'ness, West Lothian. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Bruce, In Archaeological and historical collections relating to Ayrshire and Galloway, http://archive.org/stream/cu31924092901606#page/n145/mode/2up, Vol. V, pp.82,83, it relates that an old man in Sir William Maxwell’s service was cleaning out a channel. This appears to be the crannog in the White Loch of Myrton. The Black Loch of Myrton is also mentioned in note 2. Wonder of the McCulloch descendants may have more information as they may have sold the property to the Maxwell family. Regards, Shirley

I’m not a local, but I am a map freak, and did ponder a couple of the questions raised on this thread. Comparing the 6 in OS map surveyed in 1848 with Google map and the current OS map, it appears that along with the draining of Black Loch of Myrton the course of Monreith Burn was altered. It did originally connect with Black Loch, but now doesn’t. On the 1848 map,the section falling south to the coast was marked as Monreith Burn, whereas the section entering the Loch from east was marked as Drumfad Burn, (and as Dowie Burn even further east). The modern maps show it all as Monreith Burn. This Burn formed the boundary between the parishes, such that Black Loch Plantation was on the Mochrum side and Waterloo Plantation on the Glasserton side. The delineation of these forested areas has also changed since 1848, but the comparison remains recognisable. That places Black Loch of Myrton within the forested area on the Google map. I wonder how old the Google satellite image is and what the Loch area actually looks like today. The on-line photos look consistent with the excavation being in a wooded area. How I wish that I could access NearMap, with its higher definition and up to date images. Can any of the locals clarify if the excavation was in an existing clearing, or if trees or shrubs had to be removed? Bruce

Dear List, I have not been following this closely but if you follow the link below you will see the Black Loch at Castle Kennedy, which has a crannog excavated I believe last year. Diana Henry http://smithiesshutter.wordpress.com/2012/08/08/the-black-loch/

Shirley Walsh kindly sent me a couple of messages that largely correspond with what Alex Bell posted. I haven't looked up Waterloo Plantation. How does it relate to Black Loch Plantation? >From: "scotire" <scotire@internode.on.net> >To: <mrichson@ix.netcom.com> >Subject: Fw: Black Loch in Monreith Park. NLS OS 6" 1843-1882 map. >Now in Waterloo Plantation ? >Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 06:09:26 +0930 > >Dear Mary, > >The Black Loch of Myrton may now be in, and part of, Waterloo Plantation. > >The nearest photo I could find of it, comparing it with the map, is at - > ><http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2918342>http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2918342 > >Regards, > >Shirley > > >>From: "scotire" <scotire@internode.on.net> >>To: <mrichson@ix.netcom.com> >>Subject: Black Loch in Monreith Park. NLS OS 6" 1843-1882 map >>Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 17:13:46 +0930 >> >>Just a note to say that the Black Loch is in Monreith Park, east of >>Monreith House. >> >>It is shown on the N.L.S. Ord.Survey 6" 1843-1882 >>map: >><file://C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Mary2\My%20Documents\Docs-M\EUDORA\attach\a%20Black%20Loch%20in%20Monreith%20Park,%20east%20of%20Monreith%20House.%20map.jpg>a >>Black Loch in Monreith Park, east of Monreith House. map.jpg >> >>You may be able to click on the google satellite map, but not sure. >> >>Regards, >> >>Shirley Walsh At 03:00 AM 9/6/2013, "Alex Bell" <alexbell@argonet.co.uk> wrote: >I followed the lead in the report, namely that it is (or was, as it has >been drained for many years) the Black Loch of Myrton, now the Black Loch >Plantation. It further south than Mary suggested, being SE of Port >William, south of White Loch of Myrton, and north of Monreith. The OS grid >reference is NX 3612 4280, or alternatively put the coordinates >236120,542800 into the search boxes on www.old-maps.co.uk; see also >http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/62815/details/black+loch+of+myrton/&biblio=more#books > >Alex Bell > > > Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 19:41:48 -0400 > > From: Mary Richardson <mrichson@ix.netcom.com> > > Subject: [WIG LIST] First Scottish Iron Age 'loch village' found > in Wigtownshire > > > > I'm sure our local listers know about this, but the news even made it > > across the pond to me! > > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-23896997 > > ... > > There are several Black Lochs in D&G. I assume this find is in > > Mochrum. Locals, is this the correct Black Loch? > > http://tinyurl.com/jw7fwhu....

Thanks to Mary Richardson for her posting: "[WIG LIST] First Scottish Iron Age 'loch village' found in Wigtownshire". Fascinating. Crannogs were discovered in Dowalton Loch back in 1863, when this loch was drained to extend the estates of Sir W. Maxwell of Monreith, Lord Stair, and R. Vans Agnew, Esq., M.P., of Barnbarroch. http://www.buittle.org.uk/part_1.htm A lake village was postulated there also, but I don't know if that has yet been agreed on by the archaeology community. A Google search on 'dowalton' gives lots of hits. Some of the earlier work is reported at http://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/6748463/notices-of-a-geoup-of-artificial-islands-in-the-loch-of-dowalton- I first got interested in the draining of this loch as it related to my family history. Prior to draining, there were 3 water outlets. One led to the Mill of Airies, a second was close to the Stonehouse farm house, and the third fed the mill dam for the Ravenstone Mill. My gg'grandfather, James McDOWALL, was the miller at the latter from about 1820 and my g'grandfather was born there in 1822. This mill was still operated by our family in 1851, but by the 1861 census, this mill had ceased operation. (Those there in 1851 had moved to the Torhouse Mill. My g'grandfather had already relocated to the Milldriggan Mill by 1851.) Once the water level dropped much below the original level, water supply to the mill wheel would have been no longer available. Draining of the loch did not commence until 1862, so I wonder why it was closed in or before 1861. The millers house was occupied in 1861, but not by millers. The house is still in use, but now goes by the name Culnoag Cottage. It was extended and refurbished in 2006. Ian L Donnachie, (“The Industrial Archaeology of Galloway”, 1971), gives a diagram of the Ravenston Mill, said to have been built in 1850 by the Earl of Stair. Could this year have been in error? The diagram shows an impressive building. This and commensurate equipment would been an expensive project. If the Earl knew in 1849 that Dowalton loch was to be lowered, would he have gone ahead with this construction? Presumably, once the loch draining was planned, maintenance, and contract renewal would have wound down. Also presumably, the Earl would have had the major equipment removed to another of his mills. Perhaps this included the mill building. I doubt that the proposed new building was ever constructed. Having examined the site, I found no evidence of the footings. The lade from the mill dam was clearly visible and the location of the wheel pit adjacent one end of a ruined building left little doubt as to which building was the latest mill building. The remnants of that building bear no resemblance to the one in the above diagram. The layout is consistent with that shown on the OS 6in scale map which was surveyed in 1848. Bruce* *

I followed the lead in the report, namely that it is (or was, as it has been drained for many years) the Black Loch of Myrton, now the Black Loch Plantation. It further south than Mary suggested, being SE of Port William, south of White Loch of Myrton, and north of Monreith. The OS grid reference is NX 3612 4280, or alternatively put the coordinates 236120,542800 into the search boxes on www.old-maps.co.uk; see also http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/62815/details/black+loch+of+myrton/&biblio=more#books Alex Bell > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 19:41:48 -0400 > From: Mary Richardson <mrichson@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: [WIG LIST] First Scottish Iron Age 'loch village' found in > Wigtownshire > To: "Mail list: WIG" <SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <E1VH0Ef-0002hJ-8B@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > I'm sure our local listers know about this, but the news even made it > across the pond to me! > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-23896997 > > Did any of us have ancestors there? 'Course, we'll never know, but > it's fun to speculate. > > There are several Black Lochs in D&G. I assume this find is in > Mochrum. Locals, is this the correct Black Loch? > http://tinyurl.com/jw7fwhu. > > If you're like me and challenged by such Gaelic words as crannog, you > can broaden your vocabulary at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crannog > (helpful pics included). > > Lastly, if you'd like to follow the archaeological progress, "like" > The Whithorn Trust on Facebook. Here are some > photos: http://tinyurl.com/kg4nekn. > > Enjoy! > > Mary

I'm sure our local listers know about this, but the news even made it across the pond to me! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-23896997 Did any of us have ancestors there? 'Course, we'll never know, but it's fun to speculate. There are several Black Lochs in D&G. I assume this find is in Mochrum. Locals, is this the correct Black Loch? http://tinyurl.com/jw7fwhu. If you're like me and challenged by such Gaelic words as crannog, you can broaden your vocabulary at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crannog (helpful pics included). Lastly, if you'd like to follow the archaeological progress, "like" The Whithorn Trust on Facebook. Here are some photos: http://tinyurl.com/kg4nekn. Enjoy! Mary

Thanks Margery, So there would not have been any records of non-conformist marriages prior to 1834 if they wanted to marry regularly. I had wondered if some non-conformists might have opted for an irregular marriage rather than marry according to the rites of the established Church of Scotland which was an anathema to them. In these cases I had considered the possibility of a non-conformist minister acting as witness and recording the event as evidence. ( Jo Ann wrote on 22 August "Under early modern Scots law, there were three forms of "irregular marriage" which can be summarised as the agreement of the couple to be married and some form of witnessing or evidence of such....") I had hoped there would be records of these events, albeit unofficial or illegal, held by individual non-conformist churches or sent to their synod. Or in the National Archives. However, since no one appears to have seen any of these records, it sounds like the non-conformist minister did not get involved in irregular marriages nor record the events. I appreciate your help with this. Ailsa ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- Irregular Marriages & Non-Conformist Records According to information on the GRO Scotland website - it wasn't until 1834, when a "Marriage (Scotland) Act" was passed - that ministers & priests "not of the established church" were permitted to conduct legal marriage ceremonies. This would indicate to me that prior to 1834 marriage ceremonies were not conducted in non-conformist churches. Couples who were of non-conformist persuasions who wished to have a "regular" marriage ceremony would have had to be married (not necessarily in church - marriages were often held in the home of the bride) by a minister of the established Church of Scotland. So to answer your question Ailsa, it would seem that there are no non-conformist church marriage records prior to 1834. This digest arrangement scares me silly - I hope I've done this reply correctly! Margery Edmonds ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 18:42:56 +1000 From: "ailsa158" <ailsa158@optusnet.com.au> Subject: Re: [WIG LIST] Irregular Marriages SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE Digest, Vol 8, Issue 121 To: <sct-wigtownshire@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <000301cea16f$1c09d010$541d7030$@optusnet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to explain Irregular marriages. It has always confused me. >From reading the discussion, it would appear that non-conformists who married in their own churches pre 1834 were considered to be in Irregular marriages. Is that correct? If so, where would these marriage records be held? Regards, Ailsa ------------------------------ To contact the SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE list administrator, send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE mailing list, send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE Digest, Vol 8, Issue 122 ************************************************ ------------------------------ To contact the SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE list administrator, send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE mailing list, send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE Digest, Vol 8, Issue 125 ************************************************

Irregular Marriages & Non-Conformist Records According to information on the GRO Scotland website - it wasn't until 1834, when a "Marriage (Scotland) Act" was passed - that ministers & priests "not of the established church" were permitted to conduct legal marriage ceremonies. This would indicate to me that prior to 1834 marriage ceremonies were not conducted in non-conformist churches. Couples who were of non-conformist persuasions who wished to have a "regular" marriage ceremony would have had to be married (not necessarily in church - marriages were often held in the home of the bride) by a minister of the established Church of Scotland. So to answer your question Ailsa, it would seem that there are no non-conformist church marriage records prior to 1834. This digest arrangement scares me silly - I hope I've done this reply correctly! Margery Edmonds ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 18:42:56 +1000 From: "ailsa158" <ailsa158@optusnet.com.au> Subject: Re: [WIG LIST] Irregular Marriages SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE Digest, Vol 8, Issue 121 To: <sct-wigtownshire@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <000301cea16f$1c09d010$541d7030$@optusnet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to explain Irregular marriages. It has always confused me. >From reading the discussion, it would appear that non-conformists who married in their own churches pre 1834 were considered to be in Irregular marriages. Is that correct? If so, where would these marriage records be held? Regards, Ailsa ------------------------------ To contact the SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE list administrator, send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE mailing list, send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE Digest, Vol 8, Issue 122 ************************************************

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: anneclyde48 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.wig.general/944.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi I think we're talking about the same family. If it is the same, Henry became a police constable and I think was in glasgow. Had a son Alexander. I'm his great- great - great - grandaughter. Henry's (I think)father was a John Dugan and Margaret Reid. The had a farm at Craignaquorroch in Wigtonshire. John Dugan was an immigrant from Ireland. Tell me if I'm wrong! Best wishes, Anne Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.