Just to have one other corner of the world heard from, "back road" is common here in Kendall County, Illinois (50 miles WSW from Chicago). I grew up knowing it was not the most efficient and direct route, but rather the more scenic and slower road to choose. Time available often made the difference in our mother's choice. I still do a lot of back road driving so that I can watch what's happening with those neighbors as well as the ones I probably see more frequently...fields plowed or planted, house with new paint, a barn that is leaning more than last time, etc. Is it customary to say "back road" because of the Yankee settlers, the English, the Germans...or maybe the Scots taught it to all? Kristy Lawrie (with Anderson, Brown, Taylor, Ferguson, Finlayson, Hiddleson, Weir and many other good names in my tree and all connected to Plano)

Hi Len, In my experience the term "back road" is as English (certainly I used it growing up in Yorkshire) as it is Scots, and used here in Pennsylvania too. But one has to be careful about identifying the "back road" with the original road. In one particular case, if one is going from Newton Stewart to Wigtown, one could take the main road, or the "back road" that hugs the Cree (and incidentally goes past the aboriginal McKeand stamping grounds of Barsalloch and Borrowmoss), but the back road was only completed in the 1800s as I understand it. Crawford.

Len, Your reference: "While on odd words, and sayings, '' the back road '' easily comes to mind, where did it come from? For every major highway in Wigtownshire connecting towns or villages, there is a '' back road, or the old road, in most cases, the original road. If you were to ask the location of a farm and it was off the main highway, you would be directed to go by the back road, rather than go by the B 32 or the A 55. Most of these roads followed the coast and connected with all the coastal villages, and are still widely used today, mostly by tourists and locals travelling to the commercial centres, and in Wigtownshire there is an absolute maze of them, and that is what makes the south of Scotland so unique, I have never heard the phrase used anywhere else, does anyone else know." -------- When I tracked down "far-out" cousins in Auchencairn, Kirkcudbrightshire, they and their neighbours, who were invited in to visit me to see if they knew anything more about my father's forebears, mentioned going "up the back road." As they lived on Main Street, which was the main street of Auchencairn, it was indeed a back road to "somewhere else" or a circuitous route to the main road. We also used the term back road in Glasgow as distinct from a main route to get to one's house. Same applied when some of my relatives lived in Haddington, East Lothian. It would seem, then, that "the back road" is commonly used in various places in Scotland as an aside from the main road. Should we discuss bread? Pan loaf. square/plain loaf, half a loaf,...which it isn't, depending on where you come from? Perhaps not as we are straying a bit, but again, looking at the larger picture of what families ate, the topic of bread is not so far off the scale. The history of Ireland cannot be told if one does not talk about potatoes and the Great Famine. Maisie

Hi Crawford et al I saw on the Net that a Be-Ro cookbook can be ordered but for delivery UK only.Cheers Ella ----- Original Message ----- From: "Crawford MacKeand" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Cc: "Diana Henry" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 12:18 PM Subject: [WIG LIST] Shortbread etc. > Hi Jenny, Maisie and Ella > > In the matter of shortbread, my cousin Shona in Ayrshire recommended > to us the use of Arrowroot, and lo and behold it worked fine too here > in Pennsylvania. I have to think that such a fine recipe as a good > Scottish shortbread will work with any of them!! > > I was delighted to see the BeRo recipe book mentioned again. That came > up when Diana gave us a recipe for potato scones a few weeks ago. > Good, very good, and in fact I had some for dinner tonight. But what > the mention really did was to remind me of my mother's cooking when I > was a kid. She also cooked with what my wife says is "al ojo del buen > cubero" or translated (Anna is half Spanish) "with the eye of a good > cooper" and that's a good eye indeed. However, when she (my mother, > from Norfolk but living in Yorkshire) occasionally used a cookery book > it was Be-Ro. So naturally I looked it up on the internet, and Be-Ro > still exists, (in Northumberland) as does their cook book. So if you > want one for old times sake (or presumably for some good recipes) it > seems to be still available. > > Regards, > > Crawford.

I have often wondered where the demarcation line is drawn between the use of the words wean and bairn in Scotland. The following website is a bit of a help, though growing up in Glasgow I always thought wean was typically Glesga as I never heard it anywhere else, or perhaps that it was influenced by the Irish who descended upon Glasgow in their thousands upon thousands in the 1800s...so why not the use of wean in Wigtownshire? I have heard wean used in N. Ireland; however, I don't know if the N. Irish were influenced by the Scots who were "planted" in the early 1600s, or if the word is indigenous to that area and then crossed the channel to Glasgow. This article helps to clear up matters for me somewhat, though I still wonder if there might not have been an Irish influence somewhere at some time. http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/ScotLit/ASLS/SWE/TBI/TBIIssue7/Wean.html Maisie

Maisie, My Scottish father accepted our son being named Scott David, at that time I didn't know of the surname SCOTT within the family lines, a James Scott KEITH was b 1897 (my grandfather's brother) this surname I have back to 1780 in LKS, David was for his father. When our dau was born he was absolutely disgusted when we named her Michelle Louise - horror!! French !! The headstones found on family Lairs in Rutherglen have weathered well, wouldn't I love to know if at least one of them was actually chiselled by my GrGrandfather Thomas KEITH. Our 3 grandchildren are named in part for their forebears, although as you say Maisie some chosen names set you thinking! Paris CAIRNEY ***, Grace MATILDA ***, Oscar DAVID *** - the CAIRNEY (var sp) going back to WIG/AYR early 1800s, MATILDA (early 1800s) was from my husband's mothers line and DAVID (my husband) given to our son and now our grandson - so in a small way, some of our family names are being carried on in the latest generation. As for the use of either rice flour or ground rice in shortbread, yes that is what I use in my recipe, my father, his mother Jane (Jeanie) CAIRNEY KEITH and his aunt Margaret Anne MILLIGAN CAIRNEY (WIG/AYR) never baked from a written recipe nor measured ingredients accurately to the cup or tablespoon so therefore I have no recipe books handed down to follow in their footsteps of scones, griddle scones, piklets and apple pies :-)) Happy hunting in 2011, Jenny

Hi Maisie I used to use rice flour when I tried to make shortbread. This would have been between 1957, when I married, and late 1961 when I emigrated to Australia from Glasgow. The recipe books I had then were very plain. Cannot swear they were Scottish but certainly nothing French. Don't think there was a shortbread recipe in my favourite recipe book for baking . A fantastic wee book from Be-Ro flour. Sadly it fell apart over the years. During a visit in 1983 I learnt to make lovely shortbread from an old lady in the Highlands. No rice flour. Nowadays I buy Walkers shortbread "Made in Scotland". Maybe I'll dig out Granny McIntyre's recipe and have a go. Just the thing for a humid day in Sydney. Like you I'm not rapt in my name. Ella is a shortened version of my full name Isabella, but this is also a family tradition. I come from a very long line of Isabellas on my father's side. Thanks for bringing back some recipes. Ella Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maisie Egger" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:13 AM Subject: [WIG LIST] Understanding Scottish Graveyards, etc. > The Scottish Heritage Society of Iowa's website includes something for > everybody, such as an interesting fillip on "Understanding Scottish > Graveyards". My own forebears' headstones were plain Jane and no > nonsense, with no particular symbols inscribed. > > Another inclusion in the website is the order of patronymic names. > British heritage surnames began in the 13th/14th centuries initially by > the aristocracy and then by everyone else. > To quote from the website: > > People of all countries tend to use forenames which run in the family. In > Scotland families not only use such names but they tend to follow naming > patterns - the most common of which is: > > - 1st son - named after his paternal grandfather > - 2nd son - named after his maternal grandfather > - 3rd son - named after his father > - 1st daughter - named after her maternal grandmother > - 2nd daughter - named after her paternal grandmother > - 3rd daughter - named after her mother > > Although this naming pattern was not always used, it can be a useful > indication to genealogists. Unfortunately, this pattern is not used to the > same extent today. Most of us can attest to this as the wee weans/bairns > nowadays are given "coined" names, taken off the wall, with no historical > significance or even sense as names go. Much as my diminutive name Maisie > and more formally Mary would not have been my choice, both are still > family names that give me some connection to my past. > > > > Included in this website is a recipe for shortbread. Well, no one of my > acquaintance ever used rice flour, but ordinary flour, and so one wonders > if this was a French introduction for the more affluent's use. I'd be > curious to know from anyone on the list if he/she ever used rice flour to > make traditional shortbread. Incidentally, "everyone" raves about my > shortbread and my "public" cries out for it every Christmas! > > > > Go to this website for more interesting information: > > http://www.iowascots.org/weeglimpses.htmsite > > > Maisie > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Jenny, Maisie and Ella In the matter of shortbread, my cousin Shona in Ayrshire recommended to us the use of Arrowroot, and lo and behold it worked fine too here in Pennsylvania. I have to think that such a fine recipe as a good Scottish shortbread will work with any of them!! I was delighted to see the BeRo recipe book mentioned again. That came up when Diana gave us a recipe for potato scones a few weeks ago. Good, very good, and in fact I had some for dinner tonight. But what the mention really did was to remind me of my mother's cooking when I was a kid. She also cooked with what my wife says is "al ojo del buen cubero" or translated (Anna is half Spanish) "with the eye of a good cooper" and that's a good eye indeed. However, when she (my mother, from Norfolk but living in Yorkshire) occasionally used a cookery book it was Be-Ro. So naturally I looked it up on the internet, and Be-Ro still exists, (in Northumberland) as does their cook book. So if you want one for old times sake (or presumably for some good recipes) it seems to be still available. Regards, Crawford.

Sorry Sam but I missed out one other spelling. Could Clieland be Clelland as well as Cleland as I have seen both but never Clieland?. Donald. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sam Heron Sent: 09 January 2011 08:37 To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: [WIG LIST] Culhorn House Jenny, This could have been Captain Argyle DALRYMPLE who died June 14th 1766 at Antigua. I can find no references to any one who resembles Mrs Seabellow Clieland. Sam Heron ` ` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenny Blain" <[email protected]> To: "Sam Heron" <[email protected]> Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 11:26 PM Subject: Culhorn House Re: [WIG LIST] John 1st Earl of Stair died January 8th 1707 > Just to add that there is some info on Culhorn House (building, > alternations and such) at > http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search_item/index.php?service=RCAHMS&id=21 6171 > which has names of a few masons etc. > > In 1760 in the Inch Kirk Bell subscribers list there is a Mrs Seabellow > Clieland in Culhorn, likely to be at Culhorn house. She gave six > shillings which was a large amount, the third largest in the list. 'The > Honble Captin Dalrymple of Str' gave a whole pound. > > I'm guessing that Seabellow Clieland (Sibilla, Sibyl?) was part of the > Dalrymple family. Anybody know more? > > Jenny > > > On 08/01/2011 07:07, Sam Heron wrote: >> Today January 8th is the anniversary of the death of the first Earl of >> Stair on January 8th 1707 >> ` >> Here is a little bit of Scottish history that pertains to Wigtownshire >> and the Dalrymples of Stair >> Sam Heron >> ` ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3365 - Release Date: 01/07/11 17:34:00 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sam, just a thought but could she be Isabella Cleland, without the e and shortened to Sibella? Donald Main -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sam Heron Sent: 09 January 2011 08:37 To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: [WIG LIST] Culhorn House Jenny, This could have been Captain Argyle DALRYMPLE who died June 14th 1766 at Antigua. I can find no references to any one who resembles Mrs Seabellow Clieland. Sam Heron ` ` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenny Blain" <[email protected]> To: "Sam Heron" <[email protected]> Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 11:26 PM Subject: Culhorn House Re: [WIG LIST] John 1st Earl of Stair died January 8th 1707 > Just to add that there is some info on Culhorn House (building, > alternations and such) at > http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search_item/index.php?service=RCAHMS&id=21 6171 > which has names of a few masons etc. > > In 1760 in the Inch Kirk Bell subscribers list there is a Mrs Seabellow > Clieland in Culhorn, likely to be at Culhorn house. She gave six > shillings which was a large amount, the third largest in the list. 'The > Honble Captin Dalrymple of Str' gave a whole pound. > > I'm guessing that Seabellow Clieland (Sibilla, Sibyl?) was part of the > Dalrymple family. Anybody know more? > > Jenny > > > On 08/01/2011 07:07, Sam Heron wrote: >> Today January 8th is the anniversary of the death of the first Earl of >> Stair on January 8th 1707 >> ` >> Here is a little bit of Scottish history that pertains to Wigtownshire >> and the Dalrymples of Stair >> Sam Heron >> ` ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3365 - Release Date: 01/07/11 17:34:00 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Scottish Heritage Society of Iowa's website includes something for everybody, such as an interesting fillip on "Understanding Scottish Graveyards". My own forebears' headstones were plain Jane and no nonsense, with no particular symbols inscribed. Another inclusion in the website is the order of patronymic names. British heritage surnames began in the 13th/14th centuries initially by the aristocracy and then by everyone else. To quote from the website: People of all countries tend to use forenames which run in the family. In Scotland families not only use such names but they tend to follow naming patterns - the most common of which is: - 1st son - named after his paternal grandfather - 2nd son - named after his maternal grandfather - 3rd son - named after his father - 1st daughter - named after her maternal grandmother - 2nd daughter - named after her paternal grandmother - 3rd daughter - named after her mother Although this naming pattern was not always used, it can be a useful indication to genealogists. Unfortunately, this pattern is not used to the same extent today. Most of us can attest to this as the wee weans/bairns nowadays are given "coined" names, taken off the wall, with no historical significance or even sense as names go. Much as my diminutive name Maisie and more formally Mary would not have been my choice, both are still family names that give me some connection to my past. Included in this website is a recipe for shortbread. Well, no one of my acquaintance ever used rice flour, but ordinary flour, and so one wonders if this was a French introduction for the more affluent's use. I'd be curious to know from anyone on the list if he/she ever used rice flour to make traditional shortbread. Incidentally, "everyone" raves about my shortbread and my "public" cries out for it every Christmas! Go to this website for more interesting information: http://www.iowascots.org/weeglimpses.htmsite Maisie

Shirley, Thank you as it is interesting. At the time John Dalrymple, who became the 1st Earl of Stair, was born at Stair House in the parish of Stair, in Kyle in Ayrshire the Dalrymples of Stair family may have had interests in Wigtownshire other than through his mother Margaret 'Witch of Endor' Ross, co-heiress of Balneil New Luce, Wigtownshire. Margaret married James Dalrymple, subsequently '1st Viscount of Stair' They married on 21st September 1643. She was the 1st daughter of James Ross of Balneil, 'co. Wigton'. Margaret had previously been married to Fergus Kennedy who had died. I don't see Ross of Balneil on the Stent Roll list so perhaps this was the property that was being taxed and was now in the name of James Dalrymple on behalf of the family?? Alternatively did Fergus Kennedy have a connection with Castle Kennedy?? Was that how it came to belong to the Dalrymples? I must look into this aspect. Also interesting is the fact that James's father James Dalrymple of Drummurchie and Stair, d. Jan 1625, m. aft. 9 Sep 1617 to Janet Kennedy (d. 1663, in her 1st marriage, m. 2ndly Hugh Campbell of Balloch), daughter of Fergus Kennedy of Knockdaw. Very interesting and I am certain the answer has already been found by many others now I just need to locate those sources. Sam Heron ----- Original Message ----- From: Shirley Walsh To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 5:38 PM Subject: Dalrymple on Stent roll Thank you for your interesting Dalrymple messages on the SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-L Attached are the AD1657 Stent rolls. Best regards, Shirley Walsh South Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3365 - Release Date: 01/07/11 17:34:00

Jenny, This could have been Captain Argyle DALRYMPLE who died June 14th 1766 at Antigua. I can find no references to any one who resembles Mrs Seabellow Clieland. Sam Heron ` ` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenny Blain" <[email protected]> To: "Sam Heron" <[email protected]> Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 11:26 PM Subject: Culhorn House Re: [WIG LIST] John 1st Earl of Stair died January 8th 1707 > Just to add that there is some info on Culhorn House (building, > alternations and such) at > http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search_item/index.php?service=RCAHMS&id=216171 > which has names of a few masons etc. > > In 1760 in the Inch Kirk Bell subscribers list there is a Mrs Seabellow > Clieland in Culhorn, likely to be at Culhorn house. She gave six > shillings which was a large amount, the third largest in the list. 'The > Honble Captin Dalrymple of Str' gave a whole pound. > > I'm guessing that Seabellow Clieland (Sibilla, Sibyl?) was part of the > Dalrymple family. Anybody know more? > > Jenny > > > On 08/01/2011 07:07, Sam Heron wrote: >> Today January 8th is the anniversary of the death of the first Earl of >> Stair on January 8th 1707 >> ` >> Here is a little bit of Scottish history that pertains to Wigtownshire >> and the Dalrymples of Stair >> Sam Heron >> ` -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3365 - Release Date: 01/07/11 17:34:00

I think it's very possible - all spellings are approximate and so it might be found as Clelland, Cleland, Cleilan, Clellan, Cleiland.. Isabella could be a possibility too - though Sibilla, Sibela, Sibyl were all known names. 'Seabellow' would seem to be a creative spelling by the parish clerk. Jenny On 09/01/2011 08:46, donald main wrote: > Sorry Sam but I missed out one other spelling. Could Clieland be Clelland as > well as Cleland as I have seen both but never Clieland?. Donald. > >

Today January 8th is the anniversary of the death of the first Earl of Stair on January 8th 1707 ` Here is a little bit of Scottish history that pertains to Wigtownshire and the Dalrymples of Stair Sam Heron ` James Dalrymple, 1st Viscount of Stair (May 1619 - 29 November 1695), and his son John Dalrymple the Master of Stair (1648 - 8 January 1707) had quite an influence on Scotland's history. Sir John 2nd Viscount of Stair eventually became the first Earl of Stair at Castle Kennedy just out side Stranraer, Wigtownshire in 1703. Sir John was also made Lord Newliston, Glenluce and Stranraer and Viscount of Dalrymple, at the same time he was given the earldom. Although originally from Ayrshire, the Dalrymple beginning in Wigtownshire seem to be around 1677 when Castle Kennedy was obtained by Sir James Dalrymple of Stair. I also note that James's wife, John's mother was Margaret Ross, co-heiress of Balneil in Wigtown. Castle Kennedy was destroyed by fire in 1716 and was replaced by Lochinch Castle which was completed in 1867. There seems to have been an occupancy by the Dalrymple family at nearby Culhorn House, Inch for a while according to the 1841 and 1851 Census. John, Master of Stair, is principally remembered for the part he played in the massacre of Glencoe. He also played a crucial role in influencing the 1707 Treaty of Union between the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England, that created the Kingdom of Great Britain and saw the end of Scotland's own parliament for 292 years from 25 March 1707 until 12 May 1999. At that time the 25 March was still New Year's Day in England (until 1752), Scotland had changed its New Year's Day to January 1st in 1600. John's father, James Dalrymple, 1st Viscount of Stair, served as one of the Scottish commissioners who went to London in 1670 to the Treaty of the Union; but the project faltered at that time. James collated and recorded 'The Laws of Scotland' several years prior to the 1707 Treaty of Union between Scotland and England. This is the Scottish Law that was so different from the English law at that time and still is today. Scottish law continued to be practiced as it had been practiced before the Treaty of the Union as one of the conditions of the Treaty of the Union. Thankfully it had been written down by James Dalrymple, 1st Viscount of Stair. John Dalrymple 2nd Viscount of Stair, and the son of James Dalrymple, was born at Stair House in the parish of Stair, in Kyle, Ayrshire. In 1689 king William II, (William of Orange) appointed him Lord Advocate of Scotland and in 1691 he was appointed Joint Secretary of State over Scotland with James Johnston. John Dalrymple is notoriously remembered for his part in the 1692 Massacre of Glencoe; he believed that he was doing something good for the benefit of all of Scotland. The Scottish parliament, in 1695, as a result of public revulsion and unrest, including Lowlanders, demanded an enquiry into the massacre. When the report from the enquiry was complete, they voted that "the killing of the Glencoe men was murder" and the government was condemned for having "barbarously killed men under trust". Responsibility for the crime lay with the King's Scottish ministers, but King William was guilty of a "great breach of duty" in shielding the Master of Stair from any punishment beyond dismissal from the Secretaryship of State. The Master of Stair subsequently returned to government in 1700 as a member of the Privy Council of Scotland. He was created first Earl of Stair in 1703 by Queen Anne. So the 1st Earl of Stair was a person of notoriety who was complicit in the Glencoe Massacre in February 1692 and he played a crucial role in the 1707 Treaty of Union between the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England, that created the Kingdom of Great Britain and suspended the Scottish parliament for 292 years. His father James Dalrymple, 1st Viscount of Stair (May 1619 - 29 November 1695) was a Scottish lawyer and statesman. James is acknowledged by some because of his great legal work, 'The Institutions of the Law of Scotland deduced from its Originals, and collated with the Civil, Canon and Feudal Laws and with the Customs of Neighbouring Nations', as being the person who first made a complete written record of Scottish Law as it was practiced at that time. The Laws of Scotland: Stair Memorial Encyclopaedia (commonly referred to as the Stair Memorial Encyclopaedia) is the authoritative source for law in Scotland. It incorporates law derived from every source and, while concentrating on the specialties of Scots law, it also covers law common to the whole of the United Kingdom. Each statement of law is supported by citation of authority, and there are references to sources of further information, both primary and secondary. The Encyclopaedia may still be cited with approval before the courts. In 1981, three hundred years after James Dalrymple, 1st Viscount of Stair's first publication of his original work, a restatement of the Laws of Scotland was commissioned. ` So that is a summary of how much just one family influenced Scotland's future and her history .... and the family still has an affinity with Wigtownshire. In passing I note that in the 1841 Census - Stair (8th Earl of) Rt. Hon. John, 69, army, Scotland and Lady Stair,55, Scotland were recorded as being at Culhorn House in the Parish of Inch together with twenty-six (26) staff. In the 1851 Census there were twelve (12) staff shown at Culhorn House with 'householder absent". This would again be the 8th Earl of Stair In the 1881 Census in Edinburgh the 10th Earl Of Stair John H. Dalrymple 62 born in Inveresk and the Countess of Stair Louisa. Dalrymple 57, with two daughters Annie 25 and Emily 22 born in London were residing at Gardeners Castle: Cranston, Edinburgh. with thirty-four (34) staff several being from Wigtownshire. By then in 1881 Culhorn House in Inch was described as being in ruins but Lochinch Castle had been completed in 1867. The only locally recorded births that I could find relative to the 'Stairs' were: ************************************************** DALRYMPLE HAMILTON, North de Coigny Christening Birth Date: 31 Oct 1853 Birthplace: Inch, Wigtown, Scotland Recorded in: Inch, Wigtownshire, Scotland Death Date: 4 Nov 1906 Father: John Hamilton Earl Of Stair DALRYMPLE Father's Father: North Hamilton Earl Of Stair DALRYMPLE Father's Mother: Margaret PENNY Mother: Louisa Jane Henrietta Emily DE FRANQUETOT Mother's Father: Augustin Louis Joseph Casimir Gustave Duc de Coigny DE FRANQUETOT Mother's Mother: Henrietta DUNDAS ******************************************************* DALRYMPLE, Mary Evelyn Christening Female: Christening Date: 22 Aug 1852 Recorded in: Inch, Wigtownshire, Scotland Father: John DALRYMPLE - Mother: Louisa Much of this information is from Wikipedia in addition to other sources.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: bonniebeap Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.wig.general/2090.1.1.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi! Thank you so very much for that info. I am pretty sure Thomas Wallace's father was named Alexander because he shows up as a witness on his son Thomas's wedding license to Jane Wield(I am positive of the name Wield) in Liverpool (both father's were present as witnesses). They did not live in Liverpool though. After 1840 Thomas owned a business in Dumfries on Shakespearre Str. I am less sure of Thomas's bdate.It is very possible that Thomas was actually b. 18 Apr 1806 instead of 12 Oct 1811. There also seems to be a naming pattern going on with the 1st born son named after his paternal grndfthr so there is alternating Alexander & Thomas for at least 4-5 generations. I am thinking I have followed a wrong line. Thank you again SO much. Please if you come across any more info like this I would so appreciate it. Bonnie Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

A few months ago I found some of my early families recorded in Kirkinner Parish so I have been spending some time transcribing both Births and Marriages in this Parish and recording these on my Homepage at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wghannay/wig-opr.html I have transcribed Births from 1694 to 1816 and Marriages from 1694 to 1792. Its an ongoing job but I thought that I would share what I have so far. I hope these help some of you. Crawford has also recorded this link on the Wigtownshire Pages Site under Useful Wigtownshire Links at: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~leighann/links.html Cheers Wayne Hannay

Shirley, Perhaps below is the answer Sam Heron ` The 6th (Inniskilling) Dragoons was a cavalry regiment in the British Army, first raised in 1689. It saw service for three centuries, before being amalgamated into the 5th/6th Dragoons (later the 5th Inniskilling Dragoon Guards, then finally the 5th Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards) in 1922. Arguably one of the most famous cavalry regiments of all time. One of their most notable battles was the Battle of the Boyne in 1690. They also fought with distinction at the Battle of Waterloo in the Charge of the Union Brigade and again during the Crimean War as part of the successful Charge of the Heavy Brigade against superior numbers at the Battle of Balaklava. 1708 the regiment left Ireland and did not return to its home ground for another one hundred years. 1715 Dalrymple's Dragoons (sometimes called) Stair's Dragoons or The Black Horse. During this time the regiment saw action in Scotland against the rebel highlanders and also helped to put down riots in Manchester. 1734 Cadogan's Dragoons 1743 Dalrymple's Dragoons (sometimes called) Stair's Dragoons. The regiment was sent to Flanders in 1742 and took part in the War of Austrian Succession where the battle honour of Dettingen was authorised to be placed on its standard. 1745 Leslie's Dragoons sometimes called)Rothe's Dragoons. The regiment again distinguished itself in the battles of Fontenoy in 1745, Roucoux in 1746 and at Vall in 1747. Soon afterwards it returned to England. 1750 Cholmondley's Dragoons 1751 6th (Inniskilling) Regiment of Dragoons 1758 6th or Inniskilling Regiment of DragoonsThe regiment saw further service on the European continent in the Seven Years War and fought at Minden and Wetter in 1759 with great distinction. 1815 6th (Enniskilling) Regiment of Dragoons The regiment, as part of the Union Brigade of heavy cavalry, fought alongside their soon-to-be comrades the 5th Dragoon Guards, at Waterloo and during the Crimean war, particularly at the Battle of Balaklava. Succession where the battle honour of Dettingen was authorised to be placed on its standard. >From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_(Inniskilling)_Dragoons Se also about Castle Kennedy: http://www.castlekennedygardens.co.uk/history.asp ` ` ----- Original Message ----- From: "donald main" <[email protected]> To: "'Shirley Walsh'" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [WIG LIST] Lord Stair c.1715, Castle Kennedy > Dear Shirley, > > Your comments on Lord Stair are interesting as I have some connections > with > the Dalrymples and I would like to quote in part from a letter written on > 11th Jan 1904 by John McKelvie (1831-1906) 4th eldest child of William > McKelvie (1802-1876) and Isabella Main (1800-1878). The letter was to his > first cousin my great grandfather Robert Main, it was concerning the > family > history in Wigtownshire. > > This part of the letter is about the first three William Means (read Main) > and recounts stories he was told by older family members in the 1850s so I > quote; > > "The first land of the family was a farm or at all events lived at Larg > near > Stranraer and purchased Barneight from the Curators of John McDowell of > Freugh on 21st Oct 1742. He seemed to have lived at Carsbuie adjoining > Barneight at the time of his death. > > He was William Mean of Barneight, Carsbuie and Drummadweegie or > Drumatweeidie probably purchased all at the same time but I cannot tell. > His > son William Mean Jnr was the soldier who fought at Dettingen under Lord > Stair whose gravestone Robert M Douglas and I searched for at Inch last > Autumn." > > That is the only part of a long letter that I will quote. Interestingly > this > William Mean Jnr married Helen McTaggart the daughter of William McTaggart > of Carseriggan (a nearby farm) and Jeannie McDowell who in turn was the > daughter of John McDowell of Freugh. > > John McDowell was married to Lady Elisabeth Crichton Dalrymple the > daughter > of William Dalrymple and Penelope Crichton the Countess of Dumfries hence > the Dalymple/Stair connection in the family and presumably William Mean > Jnr > was in the family regiment? > > My question for the historians amongst us what was Stair's family > regiment? > The Enniskillens from Northern Ireland? Why would a Northern Irish > regiment > winter in Wigtown rather that at home in Enniskillen? > > Why was William Mean Jnr described as "the soldier" rather than "a > soldier" > and is there any means of finding out which regiment he was in, for how > long > and his rank? Was Dettingen in 1742 an important battle? > > Finally can anyone help me with locating Drummadweegie or Drumadweeidie. > John McKelvie's handwriting is difficult to decipher in part and it seems > he > also had difficulty in the spelling as he provided the two alternatives. > For > some reason I had always thought the place name was changed to Drumbuie > which is shown on the 1947 Bartholomews half inch sheet for Galloway at > grid > square 11K but on the OS sheet 82 1;50,000 for 1976 gr325630 the name is > changed from Drumbuie to Ardochie. > >>From warm sunny southern Western Australia. > > Donald Main > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Shirley Walsh > Sent: 06 January 2011 11:32 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [WIG LIST] Lord Stair c.1715, Castle Kennedy > > > Elizabeth Cook had a message about Inch Village on 12 April 2002. >>From information supplied by the estate office in Stranraer, Elizabeth > wrote: > "One of the Lord Stairs, returning from a military campaign, found his > castle in flames. The servants, having heard of his imminent return, were > airing the bedding in front of the fire. This caught fire and the whole > castle was burned down. The family eventually raised the money to build > another castle, the present Lochinch Castle." > > I have been researching an ancestor, Thomas Dalrymple bc.1710-1730 (said > to > be brother of the Earl of Stair) who was an attorney in the King's Bench > in > Ireland and died there in 1779 and would be pleased if anyone would know > of > his birth, perhaps in Wigtownshire or Ireland. > > In the book "Annals and Correspondence of the viscount and the first and > second Earls of Stair (vol. I) . John Murray Graham. > p.289 "London, March 24 1715. Till by this post it has not been in my > power > to acquaint you that I have received the king's directions for your > commission for Ecklin's regiment" etc. > "Your countrymen, and particularly Lord Argyle, are returned so very much > dissatisfied with Lord Marischal (George Keith) that I believe they will > prevail with the king to take his command from him." > > "Lord Stair continued colonel of the regiment of Enniskillens for about > twenty years (Ireland). According to a custom not uncommon in the army at > that time, he provided (by arrangement with Government) winter-quarters > and > forage for the men and troop-horses, when not on duty, in his grounds of > Castle Kennedy in Wigtownshire, (south of Stranraer on Loch Inch and near > Culhorn) where fatigue-parties of men were occasionally employed in > country > labour upon the estate". > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. 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Just to add that there is some info on Culhorn House (building, alternations and such) at http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search_item/index.php?service=RCAHMS&id=216171 which has names of a few masons etc. In 1760 in the Inch Kirk Bell subscribers list there is a Mrs Seabellow Clieland in Culhorn, likely to be at Culhorn house. She gave six shillings which was a large amount, the third largest in the list. 'The Honble Captin Dalrymple of Str' gave a whole pound. I'm guessing that Seabellow Clieland (Sibilla, Sibyl?) was part of the Dalrymple family. Anybody know more? Jenny On 08/01/2011 07:07, Sam Heron wrote: > Today January 8th is the anniversary of the death of the first Earl of Stair on January 8th 1707 > ` > Here is a little bit of Scottish history that pertains to Wigtownshire and the Dalrymples of Stair > Sam Heron > `

Donald, the Irish regiments may have gone over to Wigtownshire to help build the military roads. re your notes : "The first land of the family was a farm or at all events lived at Larg near Stranraer and purchased Barneight from the Curators of John McDowell of Freugh on 21st Oct 1742. William Mean Jnr married Helen McTaggart the daughter of William McTaggart of Carseriggan (a nearby farm) and Jeannie McDowell who in turn was the daughter of John McDowell of Freugh. John McDowell was married to Lady Elisabeth Crichton Dalrymple the daughter of William Dalrymple and Penelope Crichton the Countess of Dumfries hence the Dalymple/Stair connection in the family and presumably William Mean Jnr was in the family regiment? My question for the historians amongst us what was Stair's family regiment? The Enniskillens from Northern Ireland? Why would a Northern Irish regiment winter in Wigtown rather that at home in Enniskillen? Some of my notes (my very short extracts) were: In "The Belfast Newsletter" (search on internet) 22 November 1757, 20252 John Dalrymple, Shire Wigton. Country roads, Port Patrick. Battalion forces ordered work roads. etc. 4015. 25 Nov 1757. some of the names were James Murray of Broughton (Whitehorn) and John Agnew of Sheuchan (may be near Dalrymple & McDowell of Freugh) etc. 4009, 22 Nov 1757.