******************************************************************************************************************************************************* This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. ******************************************************************************************************************************************************* I agree with the suggestion of a close family group. 'Tribe' could be thought of as a translation of siol, meaning the seed or offspring of an individual. But I also agree that it is often used in a derogatory way, particularly by people who thought of themselves as 'civilised' such as Sir Robert Gordon (his History of c1630). Malcolm Dundee, Scotland -----Original Message----- From: Christine Stokes [mailto:rhemusaig@tiscali.co.uk] Sent: 02 April 2003 20:12 To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [SUT] Highlander designations ******************************************************************* This email has been received from an external party and has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ******************************************************************* Sara could be so correct in her suggestion that tribe could be derogatory. This particular tribe of Murrays were spoken off in just such a way. Christine Northamptonshire, England www.highlandhearts.com www.sutherlandheritage.com email rhemusaig@tiscali.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Sara Thomas [mailto:Sethomas@btinternet.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 2:36 PM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SUT] Highlander designations Malcolm will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe 'tribe' is a technical term in Scottish, or English, history --- 'clan' itself is hazy enough! As Christine implies, it seems to refer to an extended, but still close-knit family group, particularly one within a community which sees itself as different in some way. Isn't it in fact a slightly derogatory, or at least humorous, term? Sara Cardiff, Wales ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Stokes" <rhemusaig@tiscali.co.uk> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 10:07 AM Subject: RE: [SUT] Highlander designations > I have always thought of a tribe as being a group within a clan. > The Murrays you discuss below were part of the Aberscross Murrays who hung > out around Golspie and Sciberscross. What happened to the original clan I > do not know. > > Christine > Northamptonshire, England > www.highlandhearts.com > www.sutherlandheritage.com > email rhemusaig@tiscali.co.uk > > -----Original Message----- > From: George A Murray [mailto:cte44694@nw.centurytel.net] > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 3:06 AM > To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SUT] Highlander designations > > I am from the state of Montana in the USA..... > > What significance is the word 'tribe' vs 'clan' in the Highlands? > > Here is footnote from the Statistical on Sutherlandshire: > > About the year 1567 George Earl of Caithness, who claimed wardship of > Alexander Earl of Sutherland then a minor, had got the person of the later > into his possession. A tribe of Murrays, inhabiting this part of the > country, who were firmly attached to the noble family and beheld the > conduct of Caithness with a jealous eye, contrived to get the minor > conveyed from Caithness and put under the protection of the Earl of Huntly. > Caithness in revenge invaded this country, by his son John, who, invested > the town and Castle of Dornoch, of which the Murrays had possessed > themselves. Several skirmishes took place with various sucesses. The > Murrays no longer able to maintain the ground they had occupied, retired to > the castle. Upon this, the master of Caithness burnt the town and > cathedral; but still the besieged defended themselves in the castle for > month longer. At length, however, they were obliged to capitulate, having > undertaken to depart out of Sutherland within two months, and > delivered three hostages into the hands of the conquerors. The Murrays > fulfilled their engagement; yet the a hostages were treacherously murdered. > > George Alexander MURRAY III > Kalispell, Montana USA > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > To check out previous messages > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go > to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.465 / Virus Database: 263 - Release Date: 3/25/2003 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.467 / Virus Database: 266 - Release Date: 4/1/2003 > > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > To check out previous messages > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== To check out previous messages http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. 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