Hi John, Lifted this from this webpage, after a google search http://www3.turboweb.net.au/~mcneillc/keefe/depression.htm "The living conditions of many Australians improved by the mid 1920s with the basic wage being £4.2.0 ($8.20). During the 1920s entry to cinemas was 6d (5c) at the matinees and there was a large increase in the number of listener licences, with 2 radio stations being available, one with advertisements. In 1925 the old age pension was increased to £1 ($2) per week." [Still keeping a lookout for your tinsmiths] Christine Vic Aust ----- Original Message ----- From: John McKay <jomac@ansonic.com.au> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 6:16 PM Subject: [SUT] [SUT off topic] Money comparison > Realise this is off topic a wee bit but does any lister, especially from Oz > or UK, know roughly what the average weekly wage was around 1925? Six > pounds per week would've been a bit rich for those times? Just trying to > check some info I've received on a rellie. > > John McKay > Australia > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > To check out previous messages > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Our Elspeth Murray Mackay turns up as Eppy in the census, her daughter Euphemia is listed as Effy. We found this very confusing!! Wondering whether Euphemia and Elspth are Murray names in particular, our Murrays certainly used them, family of Angus Murray and Euphemia Campbell. regards, Ann & Ken

Realise this is off topic a wee bit but does any lister, especially from Oz or UK, know roughly what the average weekly wage was around 1925? Six pounds per week would've been a bit rich for those times? Just trying to check some info I've received on a rellie. John McKay Australia

JAMES MACKAY (b. 1867 Inverness, raised in Sutherland and Caithness) came to NSW about 1895 and joined the police force here. His police records state that he had been with the Straits Settlement Police (Singapore?) for 5 years previously. Would anyone know if records were kept at all, of those who went to join the Straits Settlement Police at this time ? Any help much appreciated. Joan - Sydney --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.473 / Virus Database: 271 - Release Date: 17/04/2003

Hello all, Does anyone have knowledge of a Sutherland by the first name of Smith in the Lanark area of Scotland, around 1845? Doanld Lee Sutherland, Hamilton, Ontario _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

Never cease to be amazed when one little bit of information can lead to so much! Christine Northamptonshire, England www.highlandhearts.com www.sutherlandheritage.com email rhemusaig@tiscali.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Malcolm.Bangor-Jones@scotland.gsi.gov.uk [mailto:Malcolm.Bangor-Jones@scotland.gsi.gov.uk] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 8:04 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [SUT] 1861 Hugh Murray Clagin of Muie, Rogart: Strathpeffer S pa **************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. **************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** Thank you to Sheila and Christine. I am assuming that A M Murray had the first house over the bridge at Lairg. 1895 Mar 27 Northern Chronicle Sale Merchant's Shop and Dwelling-House in Gruids presently occupied by Mr A M Murray merchant. Upset £300. Feu duty £1 10s. -----Original Message----- From: SheilaMMackay@aol.com [mailto:SheilaMMackay@aol.com] Sent: 29 April 2003 23:05 To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SUT] 1861 Hugh Murray Clagin of Muie, Rogart: Strathpeffer Spa Christine, Son Robert Murray was born 17 September 1845 Roviecraig(FCR). Son Alexander McLeod Murray died 9 July 1915 Bridge End Lairg from chronic pernicious anaemia.(DC) He was married to Johan Mackay - see Murrays 1-093/1. His son Angus was informant at his death. Sheila ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== Please visit our NEW POSH web site at www.sutherlandheritage.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003

******************************************************************************************************************************************************* This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. ******************************************************************************************************************************************************* In case people are not aware, there has been an exchange of material between Stafford Record Office and the National Library of Scotland. I do not have full details but I understand that 'Headquarters' papers have been transferred to Stafford and some Scottish material transferred to Edinburgh. The NLS kept photocopies of the material sent south. From the point of view of those of us based in Scotland the material sent north is not that interesting: it includes rentals already in the Scottish collection. But people in England will not longer be able to consult the rentals at Stafford - copies not having been made. Malcolm Dundee, Scotland

******************************************************************************************************************************************************* This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. ******************************************************************************************************************************************************* Thank you to Sheila and Christine. I am assuming that A M Murray had the first house over the bridge at Lairg. 1895 Mar 27 Northern Chronicle Sale Merchant's Shop and Dwelling-House in Gruids presently occupied by Mr A M Murray merchant. Upset £300. Feu duty £1 10s. -----Original Message----- From: SheilaMMackay@aol.com [mailto:SheilaMMackay@aol.com] Sent: 29 April 2003 23:05 To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SUT] 1861 Hugh Murray Clagin of Muie, Rogart: Strathpeffer Spa Christine, Son Robert Murray was born 17 September 1845 Roviecraig(FCR). Son Alexander McLeod Murray died 9 July 1915 Bridge End Lairg from chronic pernicious anaemia.(DC) He was married to Johan Mackay - see Murrays 1-093/1. His son Angus was informant at his death. Sheila

Family history is full of mysteries as we all know. Linda and I have opened a new section on our own web site at Highland Hearts more for fun but hoping to find results. If you have a real mystery which you need help with solving please contact me and we will put a few interesting ones up. As always must relate to Sutherland or Ross & Cromarty only. Christine Northamptonshire, England www.highlandhearts.com www.sutherlandheritage.com email rhemusaig@tiscali.co.uk --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003

I understand that anyone can have temporary registration to use the internet facilities of Highland Council located in their public libraries. There is no charge for this, but watch out for limited opening hours, and no coffee! Regards, Denise Sutherland

This has always been a strange one. Thought I had cracked it years ago when I found many Effies to be Euphermias. Then I would find an Elspet born who later became Effy on the census. Mainly Elsie is Elspet, Eppie is Elspet but everyone really needs to check all posibilites. Be most interesting to see others thoughts on this. Christine Northamptonshire, England www.highlandhearts.com www.sutherlandheritage.com email rhemusaig@tiscali.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Sara Thomas [mailto:Sethomas@btinternet.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 9:00 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SUT] 1861 Hugh Murray Clagin of Muie, Rogart: Strathpeffer Spa Christine In my family, 'Effy' is always the pet name of Euphemia (as is 'Eppie').The pet name of Elspet is 'Elsie'. Any other examples of 'Elspet' becoming 'Effy'? Sara (Cardiff) You wrote: ... ELSPET (Effy), born 15 May 1851 Pittentrail (NC61);.... ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== Please visit our NEW POSH web site at www.sutherlandheritage.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003

Was there not a change (or at least talk about it) just a few years ago to go to smaller unitary authorities, roughly corresponding to the old counties? Donald Massey ----- Original Message ----- > > Not entirely sure I have all this sorted out, but this is what I have so > far ... > > Sutherland County Council (and Dornoch Burgh Council) ceased to exist at > Local Government Re-organisation on 15th May 1975. The next day, Highland > Regional Council (now called The Highland Council) took over the > responsibilities of the councils in Badenoch & Strathspey, Caithness, > Inverness, Lochaber, Nairn, Ross & Cromarty, Skye & Lochalsh and Sutherland. > > County sub-committees of Highland Council are made up of the highland > councillors who represent wards in the old county areas. > > Highland Council levies the Council Tax, and administers the following > services; Education, Social Services, Roads and Transport (except trunk > roads), Police, Protective Services, Fire, Culture and Leisure, Planning > and Development. > > Other powers are exercised by the Scottish and UK Parliament.s. Local > areas (similar to previous Parish and Burgh) now have Community Councils. > > I think Ardgay is now with Bonar (and thus into Sutherland). Edderton was > added to Dornoch Firth Ward (approx the old Dornoch Parish, plus part of > Creich) about 2 years ago. > > County names are still used, but do not have their previous significance > in administrative terms. > > Hope this adds to the picture. We have elections to Highland Council and > Scottish Parliament on Thursday.

Has anyone one list researched the early Bishops of Caithness (and Sutherland) ? I seem to recall reading that the Columban Catholic clergy were permitted to marry and that this continued in isolated areas after the Roman Catholic church was introduced. It was also implied that marriage was overlooked in the political appointments to the higher offices, as in the case of brothers of the local Earl or the King. Would be likely that Gilbert of Moray, (Saint Gilbert who founded Dornoch Cathedral), had offspring ? Glen

Christine In my family, 'Effy' is always the pet name of Euphemia (as is 'Eppie').The pet name of Elspet is 'Elsie'. Any other examples of 'Elspet' becoming 'Effy'? Sara (Cardiff) You wrote: ... ELSPET (Effy), born 15 May 1851 Pittentrail (NC61);....

Here is what I have on Hugh Murray of Strathpeffer fame! HUGH MURRAY [1813-26/6/1864] married ELIZABETH MACKAY [c1818-c1885]. Hugh is the son of Angus Murray and Janet Campbell (DC). Elizabeth (Betsy) is the daughter of Alexander Mackay and Euphemia Mackay. In 1851 Hugh and Betsy were living at Clagin, Muie, Rogart, where they had five acres. Effy Mackay, Betsey's sister, lived with them. In 1861 they were still at Muie where Hugh farmed 47 acres. They lived in a three-roomed croft house. Eppy Mackay continued to live with them. See below for list of their children. This census also shows an Alexander, of the same age as young Alexander working at Eiden, Rogart, as a cattle herd boy with the Campbell family. In 1871 Betty was a widow at Clagin farming 7 acres. John, Janet and Mary were still with their mother as was her sister Eppy. In 1881 Betty had only one room and five acres. Her son John and daughter Jessie were still there to help her. John had married between 1871 and 1881 but had become a widower with two children. In the one-roomed croft house in 1881 there was Betty, John and Jessie, John's children, Christine and Hugh, another grandchild Adam MacDonald, Betty's brother Duncan Mackay, a retired railway porter and her sister Effy. By 1891 Betty had died. John continued to live at Muie with his children and his Aunt Eppy. The Registry of the City of Glasgow Police Force No. 123 'C' Division DIV. No. 118/73/157 shows an Alexander Murray, labourer, aged 21 years, height 5'8", born Rogart, Sutherland, joined the force on 30 November 1868. He remained in the force until he resigned on 24 July 1876. Is this the son of Hugh? He would appear to be the only Alexander born in Rogart at the correct time. Their children were born in Rogart: JOHN, born 28 December 1843 Roviecraig [married Christina Mackay] (NC51/61/FCR); ROBERT, born circa 1845 Roviecraig (NC51/FCR); EUPHEMIA, born circa 1845 [died 27 April 1909 Stobhill, Glasgow] [married Peter Douglas]; ALEXANDER MACLEOD, born 9 January 1847 Muie (NC51/FCR); JANET, born 28 August 1849 Muie (NC51/61/FCR); ELSPET (Effy), born 15 May 1851 Pittentrail (NC61); ELIZABETH, born 9 March 1853 Claggin Muie (NC61/FCR); MARY, born circa 1854 [died 8 July 1927 spinster at Tannachy, Rogart] (NC61/DC) ANGUS, born 7 April 1859 [died 7 September 1863 Claggin, Muie] (DC/IGI). If anyone requires any further information on the married children or can add anything further please get in touch. Christine Northamptonshire, England www.highlandhearts.com www.sutherlandheritage.com email rhemusaig@tiscali.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Malcolm.Bangor-Jones@scotland.gsi.gov.uk [mailto:Malcolm.Bangor-Jones@scotland.gsi.gov.uk] Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:46 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SUT] 1861 Hugh Murray Clagin of Muie, Rogart: Strathpeffer Spa **************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. **************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** To Joseph Peacock, Esquire Factor for His Grace the Duke of Sutherland, The Petition of Hugh Murray Lotter Clagin of Muie, Rogart Humbly Showeth That for upwards of three years your petitioner was unable to do anything for himself of family, and for the last two years or thereby, he was mostly confined to bed, and now is completely disabled. That no medical skill has been able even to lighten his discease or lessen the stinging pain which he suffers. That your petitioner has a throng family - most of whom are weak and helpless - indebted, both your petitioner and they, for some time back to public kindness for support. That your petitioner is strongly advised - both by medical men and others - to try the Strathpeffer Wells as the other means likely to restore him - if not to complete, at least to tolerable health. That your petitioner has now no means to enable him to avail himself of that from which thousands have received benefit and restoration to health. Your petitioner ventures therefore to throw himself, through you, upon the benevolence of the Duke of Sutherland, in the humble hope that some means may be provided for enabling him to give at least a trial to what is so strongly recommended. May it please you them to bring your humble petitioner's case before Mr Loch or His Grace And your petitioner shall ever pray [signed] Hugh Murray Clagin Muie Rogart July 25th 1861 The Statements as to disease and dependence upon public charity contained in the above petition are correct [signed by] Alex Sutherland Muie John Murray Muie Donald McKenzie Muie Paul Mckay Muie [pencil note: "No 186 Muie £4 4 5 rent wife & 8 children oldest 17 - Herding & 3 others at work youngest 3"] Not quite as unusual a request as one might think: the Duke's wife had inherited the Cromartie estate which included Strathpeffer Spa. Poor as well as the better-off went to the Spa which included a pump-room for the poor (which still survives as the pump-room - the sulphurated water is disgusting). Malcolm Dundee, Scotland ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== Please visit our NEW POSH web site at www.sutherlandheritage.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003

Christine, Son Robert Murray was born 17 September 1845 Roviecraig(FCR). Son Alexander McLeod Murray died 9 July 1915 Bridge End Lairg from chronic pernicious anaemia.(DC) He was married to Johan Mackay - see Murrays 1-093/1. His son Angus was informant at his death. Sheila

Hi Ron and All, Not entirely sure I have all this sorted out, but this is what I have so far ... Sutherland County Council (and Dornoch Burgh Council) ceased to exist at Local Government Re-organisation on 15th May 1975. The next day, Highland Regional Council (now called The Highland Council) took over the responsibilities of the councils in Badenoch & Strathspey, Caithness, Inverness, Lochaber, Nairn, Ross & Cromarty, Skye & Lochalsh and Sutherland. County sub-committees of Highland Council are made up of the highland councillors who represent wards in the old county areas. Highland Council levies the Council Tax, and administers the following services; Education, Social Services, Roads and Transport (except trunk roads), Police, Protective Services, Fire, Culture and Leisure, Planning and Development. Other powers are exercised by the Scottish and UK Parliament.s. Local areas (similar to previous Parish and Burgh) now have Community Councils. I think Ardgay is now with Bonar (and thus into Sutherland). Edderton was added to Dornoch Firth Ward (approx the old Dornoch Parish, plus part of Creich) about 2 years ago. County names are still used, but do not have their previous significance in administrative terms. Hope this adds to the picture. We have elections to Highland Council and Scottish Parliament on Thursday. Denise Sutherland

Having myself tasted the "waters" at Strathpeffer Spa I suspect that if Hugh Murray ever got there and tried them it probably lead to his early demise. There are about 10 different "waters" all of different composition and intensity and they all taste absolutely ghastly! I had to go for a dram afterwards or I wouldn't be here to tell the tale! Bill (Brora, Sutherland, Scotland) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Stokes" <rhemusaig@tiscali.co.uk> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 9:53 AM Subject: RE: [SUT] 1861 Hugh Murray Clagin of Muie, Rogart: Strathpeffer Spa > Would love to know if the poor man ever got to the Spa! > Christine > email rhemusaig@tiscali.co.uk > > -----Original Message----- > From: Malcolm.Bangor-Jones@scotland.gsi.gov.uk > [mailto:Malcolm.Bangor-Jones@scotland.gsi.gov.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:46 AM > To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SUT] 1861 Hugh Murray Clagin of Muie, Rogart: Strathpeffer Spa That your petitioner is strongly advised - > both by medical men and others - to try the Strathpeffer Wells as the other > means likely to restore him - if not to complete, at least to tolerable > health. > > Malcolm > Dundee, Scotland

Would love to know if the poor man ever got to the Spa! Christine Northamptonshire, England www.highlandhearts.com www.sutherlandheritage.com email rhemusaig@tiscali.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Malcolm.Bangor-Jones@scotland.gsi.gov.uk [mailto:Malcolm.Bangor-Jones@scotland.gsi.gov.uk] Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:46 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SUT] 1861 Hugh Murray Clagin of Muie, Rogart: Strathpeffer Spa **************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. **************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** To Joseph Peacock, Esquire Factor for His Grace the Duke of Sutherland, The Petition of Hugh Murray Lotter Clagin of Muie, Rogart Humbly Showeth That for upwards of three years your petitioner was unable to do anything for himself of family, and for the last two years or thereby, he was mostly confined to bed, and now is completely disabled. That no medical skill has been able even to lighten his discease or lessen the stinging pain which he suffers. That your petitioner has a throng family - most of whom are weak and helpless - indebted, both your petitioner and they, for some time back to public kindness for support. That your petitioner is strongly advised - both by medical men and others - to try the Strathpeffer Wells as the other means likely to restore him - if not to complete, at least to tolerable health. That your petitioner has now no means to enable him to avail himself of that from which thousands have received benefit and restoration to health. Your petitioner ventures therefore to throw himself, through you, upon the benevolence of the Duke of Sutherland, in the humble hope that some means may be provided for enabling him to give at least a trial to what is so strongly recommended. May it please you them to bring your humble petitioner's case before Mr Loch or His Grace And your petitioner shall ever pray [signed] Hugh Murray Clagin Muie Rogart July 25th 1861 The Statements as to disease and dependence upon public charity contained in the above petition are correct [signed by] Alex Sutherland Muie John Murray Muie Donald McKenzie Muie Paul Mckay Muie [pencil note: "No 186 Muie £4 4 5 rent wife & 8 children oldest 17 - Herding & 3 others at work youngest 3"] Not quite as unusual a request as one might think: the Duke's wife had inherited the Cromartie estate which included Strathpeffer Spa. Poor as well as the better-off went to the Spa which included a pump-room for the poor (which still survives as the pump-room - the sulphurated water is disgusting). Malcolm Dundee, Scotland ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== Please visit our NEW POSH web site at www.sutherlandheritage.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003

******************************************************************************************************************************************************* This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. ******************************************************************************************************************************************************* To Joseph Peacock, Esquire Factor for His Grace the Duke of Sutherland, The Petition of Hugh Murray Lotter Clagin of Muie, Rogart Humbly Showeth That for upwards of three years your petitioner was unable to do anything for himself of family, and for the last two years or thereby, he was mostly confined to bed, and now is completely disabled. That no medical skill has been able even to lighten his discease or lessen the stinging pain which he suffers. That your petitioner has a throng family - most of whom are weak and helpless - indebted, both your petitioner and they, for some time back to public kindness for support. That your petitioner is strongly advised - both by medical men and others - to try the Strathpeffer Wells as the other means likely to restore him - if not to complete, at least to tolerable health. That your petitioner has now no means to enable him to avail himself of that from which thousands have received benefit and restoration to health. Your petitioner ventures therefore to throw himself, through you, upon the benevolence of the Duke of Sutherland, in the humble hope that some means may be provided for enabling him to give at least a trial to what is so strongly recommended. May it please you them to bring your humble petitioner's case before Mr Loch or His Grace And your petitioner shall ever pray [signed] Hugh Murray Clagin Muie Rogart July 25th 1861 The Statements as to disease and dependence upon public charity contained in the above petition are correct [signed by] Alex Sutherland Muie John Murray Muie Donald McKenzie Muie Paul Mckay Muie [pencil note: "No 186 Muie £4 4 5 rent wife & 8 children oldest 17 - Herding & 3 others at work youngest 3"] Not quite as unusual a request as one might think: the Duke's wife had inherited the Cromartie estate which included Strathpeffer Spa. Poor as well as the better-off went to the Spa which included a pump-room for the poor (which still survives as the pump-room - the sulphurated water is disgusting). Malcolm Dundee, Scotland