Whilst looking for some of my family I found 2 marriages which may be of interest to someone on the list July 1865 Donald Reid Cabinet maker Marr. Christina Sutherland October 1865 John Sutherland ploughman marr. Esther? (hard to read) McLean I can supply more detail if of interest Iain Membership Secretary POSH Preserving Our Sutherland Heritage A Resident of Keighley West Yorkshire www.sutherlandheritage.com member's interests in Sutherland http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~suthlist/index.html
Some great Sutherland genes here! Age 106! My, my... Ron really-big-mail to: 150 Burkholder St., Stouffville, Ontario Canada L4A 4J4 http://www.geocities.com/rpatrickca *************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. **************************************************************************** * -----Original Message----- From: Mary Young [mailto:mary.young@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 6:38 PM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SUT] Robertina Sutherland Hi, Karen Robertina SUTHERLAND (1838-1925) was the daughter of William SUTHERLAND and Ann MACKAY of Rhitongue. She is age 42 in the 1881 census at No.3 Rhitongue, with her widowed mother Ann M(ackay) Sutherland. Robertina is on the gravestone in Tongue Churchyard (Cowper & Ross No.65), with her sister Mary's family: "Don Munro, Rhitongue 26.10.1880 49, w Mary Sutherland 22.12.1939 106; Robertina Sutherland 5.4.1925 88; Wm Sutherland Munro 1.3.1958 98." I don't know any more about Robina, she was unmarried in 1881 and I assume she died unmarried. Cheers, Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "ksp" <ksp@hawaii.rr.com> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: 30 May 2003 18:35 Subject: [SUT] Robertina Sutherland | In the 1881 Deaths for Tongue I recently posted was an entry for Mary MACKAY, age 81, died March 22, 1881 at Rhitongue. Her parents were John MACKAY and Mary INNIS. The informant was Robertina SUTHERLAND, niece. | | Does anyone have any information about this family and Robertina's connection to them? I am researching Robertina SUTHERLAND married to Hugh MUNRO of Coldbackie and wonder if they are one and the same. | | Aloha, Karen Sutherland-Pahia | Kahaluu, Hawaii | | Researching: SUTHERLAND, MACLEOD, MACKAY, CORRIGALL and related families | | | ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== | To check out previous messages | http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ | | ============================== | To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: | http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 | | | --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.486 / Virus Database: 284 - Release Date: 5/29/03 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.486 / Virus Database: 284 - Release Date: 5/29/03
Hi, Karen Robertina SUTHERLAND (1838-1925) was the daughter of William SUTHERLAND and Ann MACKAY of Rhitongue. She is age 42 in the 1881 census at No.3 Rhitongue, with her widowed mother Ann M(ackay) Sutherland. Robertina is on the gravestone in Tongue Churchyard (Cowper & Ross No.65), with her sister Mary's family: "Don Munro, Rhitongue 26.10.1880 49, w Mary Sutherland 22.12.1939 106; Robertina Sutherland 5.4.1925 88; Wm Sutherland Munro 1.3.1958 98." I don't know any more about Robina, she was unmarried in 1881 and I assume she died unmarried. Cheers, Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "ksp" <ksp@hawaii.rr.com> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: 30 May 2003 18:35 Subject: [SUT] Robertina Sutherland | In the 1881 Deaths for Tongue I recently posted was an entry for Mary MACKAY, age 81, died March 22, 1881 at Rhitongue. Her parents were John MACKAY and Mary INNIS. The informant was Robertina SUTHERLAND, niece. | | Does anyone have any information about this family and Robertina's connection to them? I am researching Robertina SUTHERLAND married to Hugh MUNRO of Coldbackie and wonder if they are one and the same. | | Aloha, Karen Sutherland-Pahia | Kahaluu, Hawaii | | Researching: SUTHERLAND, MACLEOD, MACKAY, CORRIGALL and related families | | | ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== | To check out previous messages | http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ | | ============================== | To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: | http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 | | |
******************************************************************************************************************************************************* This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. ******************************************************************************************************************************************************* I would suggest that the word 'steadfastly' is not really appropriate. There certainly was initial hesitation over granting church sites. This probably sprang as much from fears of whether the new church would lead to new financial burdens - the estate was financially responsible for all kirks and manses of the established church at that time. I am not aware that the Sutherland family were influenced by theological considerations in the same way that some landlords were. But I am happy to be corrected. In due course sites were readily granted, as they were when the Free Presbyterian Church came into being in the 1890s. However, it was not long before the estate was assisting the Free Church with its schools (and this despite the fact that the Free Church used the school system to put unacceptable pressure on crofting families who sent their children to schools managed by the Established Church). Both estate and Free Church subscribed to the 'get on and get out' approach. In a sense the issue of school sites became one of the foundation 'myths' of the Free Church. There is some truth in it, but it could do with rigorous examination. Do read Douglas Ansdell, The People of the Great Faith: The Highland Church 1690-1900. Malcolm Dundee, Scotland -----Original Message----- From: Iain Sutherland [mailto:iain_sutherland@totalise.co.uk] Sent: 29 May 2003 21:07 To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SUT] Effects of the Disruption (was: RE POSH PHOTOGRAPHY) ******************************************************************* This email has been received from an external party and has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ******************************************************************* Am I right in thinking that the Sutherland estate among others steadfastly refused land for new churches? Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: Sara Thomas <Sethomas@btinternet.com> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 7:32 PM Subject: [SUT] Effects of the Disruption (was: RE POSH PHOTOGRAPHY) > Hi Edward, > > Sounds as if you were very busy! > > Could I just ask you what you meant when you said: > "The churches show what the effects of the disruption were"? > My minister ancestors 'came out' at the Disruption of 1843 that is, if > they hadn't already parted from the Established Church at the time of > the Secession). They preached anywhere they could if they were chucked > out of the church building and eventually the congregation scraped > together enough money to built their own churches. If they were lucky, > a local landowner gave them land for the church and manse. I'm sure > the Free Church (as they were called) never damaged any church > buildings, if that's what the effects were that you refer to. > > Sara > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > Please visit our NEW POSH web site at > www.sutherlandheritage.com > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== Please visit our NEW POSH web site at www.sutherlandheritage.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 PLEASE NOTE: THE ABOVE MESSAGE WAS RECEIVED FROM THE INTERNET. On entering the GSI, this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSI) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Cable & Wireless in partnership with MessageLabs. GSI users see http://www.gsi.gov.uk/main/new2002notices.htm for further details. In case of problems, please call your organisational IT helpdesk.
Hello Malcolm and all, I am always very interested in your knowledge about the Highlands. Does the book you mention, "The People of the Great Faith" have an index? I am wondering if my Great Great Grandfather's name is mentioned. You have heard me mention him before I am sure. In fact you answered a query of mine in the 'Highland Family History Society' magazine a few years ago which was so helpful. His name is Murdo McLeod of Elphin and he was a blind lay preacher for the Assynt Free Church, and Gaelic teacher and 'had been well and widely known all over Sutherlandshire and part of Ross-shire in the early sixties and seventies' (from his daughter Margaret's obituary). He died in 1872 aged 85 years. The book is one that I would enjoy reading. I will see if I can put my hands on it when I visit Scotland next month. Thank you for your help. Marion ----- Original Message ----- From: <Malcolm.Bangor-Jones@scotland.gsi.gov.uk> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 1:51 AM Subject: RE: [SUT] Effects of the Disruption > **************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** > This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. > **************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** > > I would suggest that the word 'steadfastly' is not really appropriate. > There certainly was initial hesitation over granting church sites. This > probably sprang as much from fears of whether the new church would lead to > new financial burdens - the estate was financially responsible for all kirks > and manses of the established church at that time. I am not aware that the > Sutherland family were influenced by theological considerations in the same > way that some landlords were. But I am happy to be corrected. In due > course sites were readily granted, as they were when the Free Presbyterian > Church came into being in the 1890s. > > However, it was not long before the estate was assisting the Free Church > with its schools (and this despite the fact that the Free Church used the > school system to put unacceptable pressure on crofting families who sent > their children to schools managed by the Established Church). Both estate > and Free Church subscribed to the 'get on and get out' approach. > > In a sense the issue of school sites became one of the foundation 'myths' of > the Free Church. There is some truth in it, but it could do with rigorous > examination. Do read Douglas Ansdell, The People of the Great Faith: The > Highland Church 1690-1900. > > Malcolm > Dundee, Scotland > > -----Original Message----- > From: Iain Sutherland > [mailto:iain_sutherland@totalise.co.uk] > Sent: 29 May 2003 21:07 > To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SUT] Effects of the Disruption (was: RE > POSH PHOTOGRAPHY) > > > ******************************************************************* > This email has been received from an external party and > has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. > > ******************************************************************* > > Am I right in thinking that the Sutherland estate among > others steadfastly > refused land for new churches? > Iain > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sara Thomas <Sethomas@btinternet.com> > To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 7:32 PM > Subject: [SUT] Effects of the Disruption (was: RE POSH > PHOTOGRAPHY) > > > > Hi Edward, > > > > Sounds as if you were very busy! > > > > Could I just ask you what you meant when you said: > > "The churches show what the effects of the disruption > were"? > > My minister ancestors 'came out' at the Disruption of 1843 > that is, if > > they hadn't already parted from the Established Church at > the time of > > the Secession). They preached anywhere they could if they > were chucked > > out of the church building and eventually the congregation > scraped > > together enough money to built their own churches. If they > were lucky, > > a local landowner gave them land for the church and manse. > I'm sure > > the Free Church (as they were called) never damaged any > church > > buildings, if that's what the effects were that you refer > to. > > > > Sara > > > > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > > Please visit our NEW POSH web site at > > www.sutherlandheritage.com > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > genealogy records, > go to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > Please visit our NEW POSH web site at > www.sutherlandheritage.com > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > genealogy records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > PLEASE NOTE: THE ABOVE MESSAGE WAS RECEIVED FROM THE > INTERNET. > > On entering the GSI, this email was scanned for viruses by > the Government Secure Intranet (GSI) virus scanning service supplied > exclusively by Cable & Wireless in partnership with MessageLabs. > > GSI users see http://www.gsi.gov.uk/main/new2002notices.htm > for further details. In case of problems, please call your organisational IT > helpdesk. > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > To check out previous messages > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >
In the 1881 Deaths for Tongue I recently posted was an entry for Mary MACKAY, age 81, died March 22, 1881 at Rhitongue. Her parents were John MACKAY and Mary INNIS. The informant was Robertina SUTHERLAND, niece. Does anyone have any information about this family and Robertina's connection to them? I am researching Robertina SUTHERLAND married to Hugh MUNRO of Coldbackie and wonder if they are one and the same. Aloha, Karen Sutherland-Pahia Kahaluu, Hawaii Researching: SUTHERLAND, MACLEOD, MACKAY, CORRIGALL and related families
Am I right in thinking that the Sutherland estate among others steadfastly refused land for new churches? Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: Sara Thomas <Sethomas@btinternet.com> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 7:32 PM Subject: [SUT] Effects of the Disruption (was: RE POSH PHOTOGRAPHY) > Hi Edward, > > Sounds as if you were very busy! > > Could I just ask you what you meant when you said: > "The churches show what the effects of the disruption were"? > My minister ancestors 'came out' at the Disruption of 1843 that is, if > they hadn't already parted from the Established Church at the time of > the Secession). They preached anywhere they could if they were chucked > out of the church building and eventually the congregation scraped > together enough money to built their own churches. If they were lucky, > a local landowner gave them land for the church and manse. I'm sure > the Free Church (as they were called) never damaged any church > buildings, if that's what the effects were that you refer to. > > Sara > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > Please visit our NEW POSH web site at > www.sutherlandheritage.com > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >
Thanks, Edward --- I had visions of the infamous Henry VIII !!! Sara ----- Original Message ----- From: <Epaxton@aol.com> To: <sethomas@btinternet.com>; <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [SUT] Effects of the Disruption (was: RE POSH PHOTOGRAPHY) > Hi Sara > > What I meant was the various different Free Churches that 'spun' off. We are > United Free's as a family, but even then, we were amazed at the number of > Churches (ie different types of 'Frees') there would be in the smallest of areas. > > The point you make about scraping together enough money to create a new > building is borne out by the number of simple, simple Church buildings that we saw, > hence my decision to photograph them, so that all could see the results that > it had, and the devotion of the people. > > Sorry for any misunderstanding. > > edward > Limpsfield, Surrey > Using Norton Anti-Virus 2003 >
Ian, Yes I know that's how they were pronounced, and still are --- no different from Sue Ellen, Mary Anne, Mary Jane, Jean Luc etc. though a lot longer, of course. All I meant was that anybody who could or can write Gaelic would not see the need to write all the names as one single word. Let me give you an example from the first book that comes to my hand: 'Gaelic Songs of Mary MacLeod'. Mary MacLeod was a 16th century poetess, born in the Isle of Harris --- that is her English name, but she is referred to in this collection of her works exactly as follows, spaces and all: Màiri nighean Alasdair Ruaidh = Mary daughter of Redhaired Alastair (or Màiri Ruadh, for short) Her names are never run together in writing. Perhaps the ministers didn't know where one word ended and another began? Sara Hint for looking up in dictionaries --- if the first consonant of the word you want has an 'h' after it, ignore the 'h', which indicates the lenited form. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Morrison" <ianmorrison@msn.com> To: "Sara Thomas" <sethomas@btinternet.com>; "Sutherland-List" <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [SUT] Naming conventions However, I believe that is how they were pronounced*, and that is how the Ministers wrote them in the Durness OPR, which is part of the difficulty in deciphering them. Another is that in dictionaries and name books it is the nominative case that is given, whereas patronymics by their nature are in the genitive case. *i.e. as if they were one name. Similarly, in Nova Scotia, you might find a John Alan Cameron who was not known as John but "Johnalan". That is probably enough from me on this topic. Ian, Ontario, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: Sara Thomas Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 6:02 PM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SUT] Naming conventions Yes, but no need to write it like antidisestablishmentarianism Sara ----- Original Message ----- From: <claireatkinson@tiscali.co.uk> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [SUT] Naming conventions So macuilammacheorishmacneil would be "son of william, son of George, son of Neil"? Claire >-- Original Message -- >From: "Sara Thomas" <Sethomas> >Subject: Re: [SUT] Naming conventions >Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 19:42:35 +0100 >To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > > >It's the genitive (possessive) of 'George': Seòras - (pron. 'shore - us') is the subject or direct object form Sheòrais - (pron 'hyore - ish') is the genitive - 'of George'. D'you remember my lesson on Sheumas & Hamish??? Sara ----- Orig >nal Message ----- From: "Ian Morrison" <ianmorrison> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [SUT] Naming conventions > Hi Claire: > I'm sorry to say that "Heorish" has me s >umped. Please tell me the date of the entry and whether the person whose event is recorded had any siblings. > > I would say that there is a very high probability that Hugh Macuilammachustin Morrison and John Macuilammachustin are brothers but it >is not a certainty. Islandhall is not a large island and this adds to the probability. If there was one more generation in their patronymics, that would also add to the probability. > > The person who may connect me to this group of people is a Joh > "Macuilammachustianmacachinroy" who married Christian Calder (Donn) Feb 24, 1792 and had a son, Hugh, baptised Jun 19, 1793. She was a widow but it does not state whether it was his second marriage. They had no other children, apparently. In the m >rriage entry he is described as a joiner in Durin but in the baptism entry he is described as a tenent in Achins of Cnocbreac. It is tempting to assume that this John is the same person as your John Macuilammachustin, whose last child with Catharin > Mackay, George, was born in 1787. > > A year or so ago, I tried to construct a family tree for the descendants of Eachan Ruadh Morrison using similar patronymics but ran into the difficulty of apparently conflicting and/or improbable dates. Part >f the difficulty stems from the extended periods over which their children were born; so that you find nephews being older than their uncles, for example. I will try again when the golfing season is over. > > Ian > ----- Original Message ----- > >From: claireatkinson@tiscali.co.uk > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 1:37 PM > To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SUT] Naming conventions > > Hi Ian > > Thanks for the help. > > I've another one which I would like some help in trans >ating! > > Its macuilammacheorishmacneil. > > I can guess that its: son of William, son of "Heorish" son of Neil, but > what is "Heorish"? > > Also, if I have found entries in the Durness Parish Registers for Hugh Morison(alias > Macuillammac >ustin), would it be certain that he was the brother of John > Morison (alias Macuillammachustin)? In this case they both came from Islandhall. > > Thanks again > > Claire > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > To check out previous m >ssages > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== To check out previous messages http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.an >estry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== Please visit our NEW POSH web site at www.sutherlandheritage.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== Please visit our NEW POSH web site at www.sutherlandheritage.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
Hi Edward, Sounds as if you were very busy! Could I just ask you what you meant when you said: "The churches show what the effects of the disruption were"? My minister ancestors 'came out' at the Disruption of 1843 that is, if they hadn't already parted from the Established Church at the time of the Secession). They preached anywhere they could if they were chucked out of the church building and eventually the congregation scraped together enough money to built their own churches. If they were lucky, a local landowner gave them land for the church and manse. I'm sure the Free Church (as they were called) never damaged any church buildings, if that's what the effects were that you refer to. Sara
Hi Sara What I meant was the various different Free Churches that 'spun' off. We are United Free's as a family, but even then, we were amazed at the number of Churches (ie different types of 'Frees') there would be in the smallest of areas. The point you make about scraping together enough money to create a new building is borne out by the number of simple, simple Church buildings that we saw, hence my decision to photograph them, so that all could see the results that it had, and the devotion of the people. Sorry for any misunderstanding. edward Limpsfield, Surrey Using Norton Anti-Virus 2003
Ooooo! Which University did you go to? {:-))) Herbert. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sara Thomas" <Sethomas@btinternet.com> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [SUT] Naming conventions > Yes, but no need to write it like antidisestablishmentarianism > Sara > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <claireatkinson@tiscali.co.uk> > To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 8:04 PM > Subject: Re: [SUT] Naming conventions > > > So macuilammacheorishmacneil would be "son of william, son of George, > son > of Neil"? > > Claire > > >-- Original Message -- > >From: "Sara Thomas" <Sethomas> > >Subject: Re: [SUT] Naming conventions > >Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 19:42:35 +0100 > >To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > >It's the genitive (possessive) of 'George': > > Seòras - (pron. 'shore - us') is the subject or direct object form > > Sheòrais - (pron 'hyore - ish') is the genitive - 'of George'. > > D'you remember my lesson on Sheumas & Hamish??? > > Sara > > ----- Orig > >nal Message ----- > From: "Ian Morrison" <ianmorrison> > To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 12:55 PM > Subject: Re: [SUT] Naming conventions > > > > Hi Claire: > > I'm sorry to say that "Heorish" has me s > >umped. Please > tell me the date of the entry and whether the person whose event is > recorded had any siblings. > > > > I would say that there is a very high probability that Hugh > Macuilammachustin Morrison and John Macuilammachustin are brothers but > it > >is not a certainty. Islandhall is not a large island and this adds > to the probability. If there was one more generation in their > patronymics, that would also add to the probability. > > > > The person who may connect me to this group of people is a Joh > > > "Macuilammachustianmacachinroy" who married Christian Calder (Donn) > Feb 24, 1792 and had a son, Hugh, baptised Jun 19, 1793. She was a > widow but it does not state whether it was his second marriage. They > had no other children, apparently. In the m > >rriage entry he is > described as a joiner in Durin but in the baptism entry he is > described as a tenent in Achins of Cnocbreac. It is tempting to assume > that this John is the same person as your John Macuilammachustin, > whose last child with Catharin > > Mackay, George, was born in 1787. > > > > A year or so ago, I tried to construct a family tree for the > descendants of Eachan Ruadh Morrison using similar patronymics but ran > into the difficulty of apparently conflicting and/or improbable dates. > Part > >f the difficulty stems from the extended periods over which > their children were born; so that you find nephews being older than > their uncles, for example. I will try again when the golfing season is > over. > > > > Ian > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: claireatkinson@tiscali.co.uk > > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 1:37 PM > > To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [SUT] Naming conventions > > > > Hi Ian > > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > I've another one which I would like some help in trans > >ating! > > > > Its macuilammacheorishmacneil. > > > > I can guess that its: son of William, son of "Heorish" son of Neil, > but > > what is "Heorish"? > > > > Also, if I have found entries in the Durness Parish Registers for > Hugh Morison(alias > > Macuillammac > >ustin), would it be certain that he was the brother of > John > > Morison (alias Macuillammachustin)? In this case they both came > from Islandhall. > > > > Thanks again > > > > Claire > > > > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > > To check out previous m > >ssages > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > To check out previous messages > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, > go to: > http://www.an > >estry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > Please visit our NEW POSH web site at > www.sutherlandheritage.com > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > Please visit our NEW POSH web site at > www.sutherlandheritage.com > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >
Ron I thought it might help if I also copied my answers to your queries to the list: I simply took a digital camera with a large 'card' and a spare copy of relevant C&R pages including map, plus a pen and a dictaphone. What I could have done with, but not all would have been essential: secateurs brush bucket and sponge anti-midge spray! spare camera battery!!! (I was lucky and found a replacement locally) To answer your queries seriatim: 1. I did a pic of the stone and then did a separate pic of the inscriptions. I stood at an angle to get some relief to (hopefully) make it easier to read. My wife came round with me for an hour and dictated the inscriptions on some stones. It was a pity she couldn't come round with me again though, as I'll be relying on good pics for the inscriptions I photo'd last of all. 2. I made the stone 'full size' in the viewfinder, so I stand as close or as far away as appropriate to the size of the stone. Make sure you take some wide views of the cemeteries so that you can see where the stones are when you return home - field notes aren't always perfect (as I'm finding out today!) 3. As I had my parents and young son with me, I had to do most of my pics in the morning or early evening. In 2 days it took me about 3.5 hours plus an hour for my wife to do what C&R stated were 61 stones, but that was because I found numerous stones (mostly flat stones) they didn't have, and it takes time to clear off moss and grass that has grown over them. Remember though that in June it's almost 24 hours of daylight in Sutherland. I didn't like to clean off lichen or moss in case I cause any damage, although I did do a little just to confirm text or numbers. 4. Yes 50 stones should be able to be done in a day, weather permitting. We had to stop for rain on one occasion. Finally the C&R maps aren't too accurate either. They had stones in the wrong rows and wrong places which all takes time ti sort out. Superficially, I initially thought Lochinver seemed well cared for - it's only when you go in and look around in detail that you find what work needs doing. Good luck - you'll enjoy it. edward Limpsfield, Surrey Using Norton Anti-Virus 2003
Hi, Dick Thanks for the link re MANSON - however, it seems to cover only Orkney and Caithness. Am I missing the SUTHERLANDSHIRE events? Mary | Hi All, anybody looking for Manson can find the IGI for them in North | Scotland at | | http://www.cursiter.com/txt-exe-files/Manson.txt | | Yours Aye | Dick Murray | | | | --- | Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. | Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). | Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 19/05/2003 | | | | ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== | To check out previous messages | http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ | | ============================== | To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: | http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 | | |
Hello Edward and all, I will be staying at Lochinver during my visit to Assynt. I am interested in the war memorial as I have a relative John McLeod who died during the 1st World War. The local people will be able to direct me to the memorial I am sure. He is buried at Inchnadamph, where I will also be visiting. Does the memorial show people from the rest of Assynt? As I'm only in the area for three days, and will be showing my daughter & granddaughter the area, there's not too much I can do as far as helping with clean-up, but I will certainly be taking pictures with my digital of the two graveyards. Marion ----- Original Message ----- From: <Epaxton@aol.com> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:39 AM Subject: Re: [SUT] RE POSH PHOTOGRAPHY > Hi all > > Could I just add to what Christine said, that it was fun taking the pics and > discovering lost stones, etc. There's quite a bit of work to be done to the > graveyard at Lochinver to cut down bushes that have been allowed to push over > gravestones and fences. I was told there is a gardener, but I think the job > consists of cutting the grass and that's it. There are a huge number of flat > stones and stones that have fallen over. > > I found circa 75 stones NOT in C&R, although many were blank (something > inscribed on the other side?) and took something like 250 pics. - some are not > perfect, but......... > > There are a lot of graves (depressions on the grass quite obvious) which have > no stone. The graveyard is now closed, and a new one has been created at > Stoer - that makes 3 graveyards there now. > > I also photographed the local church buildings and war memorial. The churches > show what the effects of the disruption were, and the war memorial can also > provide clues to the resting place of kin. Not surprisingly, as they were so > poor, I didn't find my own kin's gravestones in the graveyard in Lochinver, but > I found 2 references to relatives on the war memorial. I was also given a > couple of clues as to where the lair records might be - previously, I'd been told > by the Council that they couldn't be found! > > We didn't want to leave when yesterday arrived............envious of all of > you now about to set off on your own visits!! Enjoy....... > > edward > Limpsfield, Surrey > Using Norton Anti-Virus 2003 > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > Please visit our NEW POSH web site at > www.sutherlandheritage.com > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >
However, I believe that is how they were pronounced*, and that is how the Ministers wrote them in the Durness OPR, which is part of the difficulty in deciphering them. Another is that in dictionaries and name books it is the nominative case that is given, whereas patronymics by their nature are in the genitive case. *i.e. as if they were one name. Similarly, in Nova Scotia, you might find a John Alan Cameron who was not known as John but "Johnalan". That is probably enough from me on this topic. Ian, Ontario, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: Sara Thomas Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 6:02 PM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SUT] Naming conventions Yes, but no need to write it like antidisestablishmentarianism Sara ----- Original Message ----- From: <claireatkinson@tiscali.co.uk> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [SUT] Naming conventions So macuilammacheorishmacneil would be "son of william, son of George, son of Neil"? Claire >-- Original Message -- >From: "Sara Thomas" <Sethomas> >Subject: Re: [SUT] Naming conventions >Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 19:42:35 +0100 >To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > > >It's the genitive (possessive) of 'George': Seòras - (pron. 'shore - us') is the subject or direct object form Sheòrais - (pron 'hyore - ish') is the genitive - 'of George'. D'you remember my lesson on Sheumas & Hamish??? Sara ----- Orig >nal Message ----- From: "Ian Morrison" <ianmorrison> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [SUT] Naming conventions > Hi Claire: > I'm sorry to say that "Heorish" has me s >umped. Please tell me the date of the entry and whether the person whose event is recorded had any siblings. > > I would say that there is a very high probability that Hugh Macuilammachustin Morrison and John Macuilammachustin are brothers but it >is not a certainty. Islandhall is not a large island and this adds to the probability. If there was one more generation in their patronymics, that would also add to the probability. > > The person who may connect me to this group of people is a Joh > "Macuilammachustianmacachinroy" who married Christian Calder (Donn) Feb 24, 1792 and had a son, Hugh, baptised Jun 19, 1793. She was a widow but it does not state whether it was his second marriage. They had no other children, apparently. In the m >rriage entry he is described as a joiner in Durin but in the baptism entry he is described as a tenent in Achins of Cnocbreac. It is tempting to assume that this John is the same person as your John Macuilammachustin, whose last child with Catharin > Mackay, George, was born in 1787. > > A year or so ago, I tried to construct a family tree for the descendants of Eachan Ruadh Morrison using similar patronymics but ran into the difficulty of apparently conflicting and/or improbable dates. Part >f the difficulty stems from the extended periods over which their children were born; so that you find nephews being older than their uncles, for example. I will try again when the golfing season is over. > > Ian > ----- Original Message ----- > >From: claireatkinson@tiscali.co.uk > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 1:37 PM > To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SUT] Naming conventions > > Hi Ian > > Thanks for the help. > > I've another one which I would like some help in trans >ating! > > Its macuilammacheorishmacneil. > > I can guess that its: son of William, son of "Heorish" son of Neil, but > what is "Heorish"? > > Also, if I have found entries in the Durness Parish Registers for Hugh Morison(alias > Macuillammac >ustin), would it be certain that he was the brother of John > Morison (alias Macuillammachustin)? In this case they both came from Islandhall. > > Thanks again > > Claire > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > To check out previous m >ssages > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== To check out previous messages http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.an >estry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== Please visit our NEW POSH web site at www.sutherlandheritage.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== Please visit our NEW POSH web site at www.sutherlandheritage.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
I have run in to the same problem, not only in Sutherland but also in Ayr and in the Borders. I wonder whether there is a usual place where lair records are kept? Many people did not have gravestones. Ian, Ontario, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: Epaxton@aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 5:39 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SUT] RE POSH PHOTOGRAPHY . Not surprisingly, as they were so poor, I didn't find my own kin's gravestones in the graveyard in Lochinver, but I found 2 references to relatives on the war memorial. I was also given a couple of clues as to where the lair records might be - previously, I'd been told by the Council that they couldn't be found! edward Limpsfield, Surrey Using Norton Anti-Virus 2003 ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== Please visit our NEW POSH web site at www.sutherlandheritage.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
Many of you will recall that last summer when the big clean up at Clyne Kirkton was well underway we had the beautiful old iron gates painted and renovated by Ron Patrick, our Canadian and US co-ordinator, who flew from Toronto to Clyne Kirkton to do this work. Well our wonderful Ron is on the way to Sutherland again shortly and this time he will be photographing gravestones for POSH. Although Ron arrives in Sutherland the day after we leave we will be meeting up with him in Edinburgh for a couple of hours and look forward to seeing him again. Sutherland will be a busy place this summer Marion will be at Elphin, Ron will be out with his trusty camera at the same time and our dear friend Guy from USA will be around Brora that week how I wish we could stay all summer to meet you all. Perhaps next year we can have a POSH gathering all together? Christine Northamptonshire, England www.highlandhearts.com www.sutherlandheritage.com email rhemusaig@tiscali.co.uk --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003
Hi all Could I just add to what Christine said, that it was fun taking the pics and discovering lost stones, etc. There's quite a bit of work to be done to the graveyard at Lochinver to cut down bushes that have been allowed to push over gravestones and fences. I was told there is a gardener, but I think the job consists of cutting the grass and that's it. There are a huge number of flat stones and stones that have fallen over. I found circa 75 stones NOT in C&R, although many were blank (something inscribed on the other side?) and took something like 250 pics. - some are not perfect, but......... There are a lot of graves (depressions on the grass quite obvious) which have no stone. The graveyard is now closed, and a new one has been created at Stoer - that makes 3 graveyards there now. I also photographed the local church buildings and war memorial. The churches show what the effects of the disruption were, and the war memorial can also provide clues to the resting place of kin. Not surprisingly, as they were so poor, I didn't find my own kin's gravestones in the graveyard in Lochinver, but I found 2 references to relatives on the war memorial. I was also given a couple of clues as to where the lair records might be - previously, I'd been told by the Council that they couldn't be found! We didn't want to leave when yesterday arrived............envious of all of you now about to set off on your own visits!! Enjoy....... edward Limpsfield, Surrey Using Norton Anti-Virus 2003
Hi folks Have been busy lately hence not appearing on here too often. Enjoying the current talk on Durness names. Learning a lot. In the background there has been a lot of POSH photography going on. I want to say publicly a huge thankyou to Joan in Helmsdale who has just completed photographing every visible stone in Helmsdale burial ground, transcribing them all on to paper and drawing maps of how to find them. A huge task and one which will benefit us all. There are a number of broken stones there which POSH will look at soon. If it is possible to mend them they will go on our list of jobs to do. We will get the transcriptions on to the members area of our web site very soon. Edward has just returned from Lochinver, Assynt, where he and his wife have photographed all the stones over 200. As Edward only had a short break in Assynt we are thrilled that he took the time to do this for us all. Again these will appear on the web site soon. Each of our photographers during the past year or two have made note of a large number of stones which did not appear in the original transcriptions of Sutherland Graveyards carried out by Cowper & Ross. This makes our endeavours even more important. Friday morning I leave for Sutherland. Sheila and I will be there until the 14th June. We plan on doing our bit also. Iain and Grant are also coming up to Sutherland while we are there. Angi is also heading for Sutherland and will be photographing the graveyard at Balnakeil, Durness. Between us we shall cover a great deal of ground. We also have a meeting at St Callan s, Rogart to discuss what POSH can do there to help repair some of the historical old stones. We are also barbecuing at Bills in Brora on the middle Saturday. No doubt there will be a great deal of POSH talk. If you have not yet joined POSH then please think about doing so now. With such incredible support we are doing a first class job of preserving these historical old graveyards, the final resting places of our own ancestors, the people who made us we can continue this work with lots of help, support and money. We have lots of new members on here so may be a good time to let them all know who we are searching for. I have my laptop with me in Sutherland to read and send emails so please keep in touch. Christine Northamptonshire, England www.highlandhearts.com www.sutherlandheritage.com email rhemusaig@tiscali.co.uk --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003