Hello list Just had this come in from another list and thought you would all enjoy it. Made me smile! Christine Most people got married in June because they took their yearly bath in May and were still smelling pretty good by June. However, they were starting to smell, so brides carried a bouquet of flowers to hide the body odor. Baths consisted of a big tub filled with hot water. The man of the house had the privilege of the nice clean water, then all the other sons and men, then the women and finally the children. Last of all the babies. By then the water was so dirty you could actually lose someone in it, hence the saying, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water." Houses had thatched roofs-thick straw, piled high, with no wood underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all the pet dogs, cats and the small animals: mice, rats and bugs-lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof, hence the saying, "It's raining cats and dogs." There was nothing to stop things from falling into the house. This posed a real problem in the bedroom where bugs and other droppings could really mess up your nice clean bed. Hence, a bed with big posts and a sheet hung over the top afforded some protection. That is how canopy beds came into existence. The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had something other than dirt, hence the saying "dirt poor. " The wealthy had slate floors that would get slippery in the winter when wet. So they spread thresh on the floor to help keep their footing. As the winter wore on they kept adding more thresh until, when you opened the door, it would all start slipping outside. A piece of wood was placed in the entryway-hence a "threshold." They cooked in the kitchen with a big kettle that always hung over the fire. Every day they lit the fire and added things to the pot. They mostly ate vegetables and did not get much meat. They would eat the stew for dinner leaving leftovers in the pot to get cold overnight and then start over the next day. Sometimes the stew had food in it that had been in there for a quite a while, hence the rhyme, "peas porridge hot,peas porridge cold, peas porridge in the pot nine days old." Sometimes they could obtain pork, which made them feel quite special. When visitors came over, they would hang up their bacon to show off. It was a sign of wealth and that a man "could bring home the bacon." They would cut off a little to share with guests and would all sit around and "chew the fat." Those with money had plates made of pewter. Food with a high acid content caused some of the lead to leach onto the food, causing lead poisoning and death. This happened most often with tomatoes, so for the next 400 years or so tomatoes were considered poisonous. Most people did not have pewter plates, but had trenchers, a piece of wood, with the middle scooped out like a bowl. Trenchers were never washed and a lot of times worms got into the wood. After eating off wormy trenchers, one would get "trench mouth." Bread was divided according to status. Workers got the burnt bottom of the loaf, the family got the middle, and guests got the top, or the "upper crust." Lead cups were used to drink ale or whiskey. The combination would sometimes knock them out for a couple of days. Someone walking along the road would take them for dead and prepare them for burial. They were laid out on the kitchen table for a couple of days and the family would gather around and eat and drink and wait and see if they would wake up, hence the custom of holding a "wake." England is old and small and they started running out of places to bury people. So, they would dig up coffins and would take their bones to a house and reuse the grave. When reopening these coffins, one out of 25 coffins were found to have scratch marks on the inside and they realized they had been burying people alive. So they thought they would tie a string on their wrist and lead it through the coffin and up through the ground and tie it to a bell. Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night(the "graveyard shift") to listen for the bell,thus, someone could be "saved by the bell," or was considered a "dead ringer. " Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.237 / Virus Database: 115 - Release Date: 3/7/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.237 / Virus Database: 115 - Release Date: 3/7/01

Hi All I am new and posted for the first time yesterday, but quite amazingly I see someone looking for other family of mine...smile...Here is what I know of the Scott's of Buccleuch The history of the Scott family is recorded as early as the year 1296. SIR RICHARD LE SCOT - of Rankilburn and Murthockston, was according to the records undoubtedly a Scott of the clan of Buccleuch. He lived in the reign of Alexander III of Scotland. He obtained an estate by his marriage to the daughter of Murthockston in Lanarkshire. He became a fuedal lord and swore loyalty to King Edward I of England. Robert Scot, his son succeeded him and hi heir was, SIR WALTER SCOTT - who was killed in a battle at Homildon Hill, in which the powerful Percy family deafeated the Scottish forces, while they still supported Henry IV. ROBERT - Sir Walter's son acquired part of the lands of Branxholm, one of the earliest of the Scott estates and at present is occupied by The Dowager Duchess, the present Duke's mother. SIR WALTER OF BRANXHOLM - was active in suppressing the powerful Douglas family in 1445. He acquired some of their lands by Charter in 1459. He also recovered the remaining half of Branxholm. His son and heir, DAVID SCOTT - lived in the reign of James III. He was a member of Parliament from 1481 to 1487. The lands of Branxholm were made a Baronetsy by Charter in 1488. He was succeeded by his grandson, SIR WALTER OF BUCCLEUCH - who fought to free the young King James V. he was defeated at Darnick near Melrose. He also fought at the battle of Pinkie. SIR WILLIAM OF KIRKURD OF BUCCLEUCH - also fought at Pinkie. He was succeeded by his grandson, SIR WALTER - who was known as a man of rare qualities, wise, true, stout of heart and modest. He was captain of Newark from 1555-1579. Succeeded by his son, SIR WALTER - Records say this powerful Chieftain was in no way inferior to the bravest of his ancestors in courage and intrepidity. He was warden of West Marches in 1950. He recieved the honor of Knighthood from James VI and was elevated to the Peerage in 1606. He became th first Lord of Buccleuch. He was a Military Commander in the Netherlands under Maurice Prince of Orange. He married the daughter of Sir William Ker - sister of the Earl of Roxborough, and his daughter married Lord Ross. WALTER, his son was created the first Earl of Buccleuch in 1619. This title to be passed down to his heirs. He had the command of a regiment in Holland against the Spaniards. He was made Baron Scott of Whitchester and Eskdale, a title to be carried down by his heirs, and various other titles. He married Lady Mary Hay, daughter of the Earl of Errol. His first son and heir died. FRANCIS - his second son became the second Earl of Buccleuch and through his heir was attained the title of the Duke and Duchess of Buccleuch. WALTER - son and heir of Francis, died in infancy. After the death of the father, Francis, in 1651 his eldest daughter Mary succeeded him and became the first Countess of Buccleuch. She died at the age of twenty in 1661, leaving no heirs. ANN SCOTT - the third child of Francis then became heiress to the titles, lands and wealth of the House of Buccleuch. She is recorded as being the greatest heiress and finest lady of her time. When quite young she married the son of King Charles II, who was a staunch Protestant. Prior to his marriage to Ann, he assumed the name of Scott, in order to rank with her in her titles and lands. He was created Baron Scott of Tindale, Earl of Doncaster and the Duke of monmouth in 1662. On their wedding day in 1663, Ann and her husband were create the Duke and Duchess of Buccleuch, Earl and Countess of Dalkeith and Baron and Baroness Scott of Whitchester and Eskdale. These titles to be passed on to their heirs. Monmouth was favoured in many ways by King Charles II, but not as successor to the Crown. Charles' brother James II an avowed Roman Catholic eventually came to the throne. Monmouth claimed he was the rightful King of England, but in a battle bravely defending his ri! ght and the Protestant faith, he was captured and put to death. ANN - The Duchess of Buccleuch, retained her titles and estates. Some years later she married Lord Cornwallis. FRANCIS - Ann's grandson became the second Duke of Buccleuch and from that time to the present, the eldest son succeeded his father, until today we have the Eighth Duke of Buccleuch. Francis married Lady Jane Douglas, daughter of the Duke of Queensbury, hence the name of Douglas was added to the Scott name. HENRY - the third Duke married Elizabeth daughter of George, Duke of Montagu was added to the Scott name. SIR WILLIAM WALTER - was the sixth duke. THE SEVENTH DUKE was Sir John Charles Scott. He married Alice Margaret Bridgeman, daughter of the Earl of Bradford. After her husband's death in 1935, she became the Dowager Duchess and resides at -Branksome- at Harwick, Scotland. THE EIGHTH DUKE is Sir Walter John Montagu Douglas Scott and his heir is Sir Walter Frrancis Scott, Earl of Dalkeith. One of his daughters Caroline Margeret was bridesmaid for H.R.H. Queen Elizabeth II, and later married Ian Hedworth Gilmour in 1951. The present Duke visited Toronto as a guest of Lady Eaton in December 1953. The Following was take from a newspaper account of his visit: "The Duke of Buccleuch yesterday visited Branksome Hall, The Toronto Ladies College named after the residence of Her Grace the Dowager Duchess of Buccleuch, mother of the Duke. The Duke spoke to the girls at the morning Assembly and in the evening their banquet. The school was named by its first Principal, Miss Margaret Elizabeth Scott. The school motto "Keep Well The Road" was taken from the motto over the door of the tower of Branksome Hall carved there in the year 1571. Last year during the school jubilee the Duke sent a gift of a book of poems including those of Sir Walter Scott, who made the first Branksome Hall famous in his poems." Sir Walter Scott, the poet was a member of the clan of Buccleuch. This next fellow is mine...he is somehow a descendant of this bunch of Scott's JAMES SCOTT was known as a descendant of a branch of this old and distinguished family. He emigrated from Scotland to Belfast, Ireland, to extend the chain of woollen and linen mills, for which this branch of the Scott Family were noted. The Irish Mills became his own personal property. Cathy Wagner

Hello Christine, I was hoping that KET was short for Catherine as it confirms what I suspected. Just had a look at the LDS site on line and doing a search on the given name Ket it did not find any but came back with Kethren, Katherine and Catherine. Regards, Ray Wigraft rwigraft@melbpc.org.au Melbourne, Victoria Australia > Ket, Kit, Kate, Katy - all forms of Catherine. Different spellings abound: > Catherine, Catharine, Katherine, Katharine, Kathrain, Kathraine. Gaelic > equivalent, Catrine, Ceit. How would you pronounce Ceit? Is it possible > that it sounds like Ket? Hopefully someone will know.

In researching my family RIDSDALE I found the name mentioned in "The Great Historic Families of Scotland on page 188,The Scotts of BUCCLEUCH, page 212. The time period is 1643 quote" The same Symon Armstrong, and his partners, did steal out of Rukin in RIDSDALE, fourscore of sheep. Would someone know what "out of Rukin in Ridsdale" meant.? Also where would these places/? be located in Scotland? Margaret Ridsdale

Malcolm, Very interesting! I was previously under the impression that censuses prior to 1841 did not record names. How does one gain access to censuses prior to 1841? Ian Morrison ----- Original Message ----- From: Malcolm.Bangor-Jones@scotland.gsi.gov.uk Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:16 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: MCDONALD ***************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. ***************************************************************************** Kirtomy is in the parish of Farr on the north coast of Sutherland a few miles east of Bettyhill. It was a township on the Sutherland estate. There were 20 households in 1811 (Census return). Two Macdonald households: George and William. No less than 25 families living there in 1819, including a John Macdonald. Malcolm Bangor-Jones -----Original Message----- From: Ron and Cathy Wagner [mailto:rwagner@xcelco.on.ca] Sent: 03 April 2001 04:56 To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: MCDONALD ******************************************************************* This email has been received from an external party and has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ******************************************************************* Hi list I am new to the list but would like some direction if possible Does anyone know how I would get transcriptions of a place called Kirtomay/Kirktome, Farr, Sutherlandshire...... I am looking for my MCDONALD family from there, so far what I have is John MCDONALD b unknown wife Margaret children so far listed are Mary born 1806 Grace born 1810 William born 1816 Jane born July 12 1817 There could be and probably is more children but I have not yet found them. does anyone have any suggestions as to where I go from here I cannot find this place called Kirtomay/Kirtome at all Cathy ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB<br clear=all><hr>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</a>.<br></p>

Hello, Christine It's always good to see source details on genealogical mailing lists, but sometimes I need help in deciphering abbreviations. In this case I recognize "OPR" as old parish/parochial records, but what is "SCR"? Many thanks, Frances ------------SCT-SUTHERLAND-D Digest V01 #73------------------ X-Message: #1 Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 16:00:30 +0100 From: "Christine Stokes" <chris@northants26.freeserve.co.uk> To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: Sutherland, MacKay, Matheson Hello Franklin Is this your family? CHRISTIAN MACKAY married ALEXANDER MATHESON Christian and Alexander had the following children (MATHESON) born in Dornoch parish: John, born 19 December 1784; Thomas, born 10 March 1787; John, born 10 January 1791; James, born 1 September 1793; Catherine, born 24 November 1796 Proncie [married Alexander Sutherland]; Alexander, born 5 May 1799. MARGARET MACKAY married ALEXANDER SUTHERLAND Margaret of Torboll, Dornoch, and Alexander of Skelbo, married in Dornoch on 14 November 1784 (OPR). They had a son: Alexander SUTHERLAND, born 8 March 1789 Dornoch (SCR). Catherine Matheson of Proncie daughter of Christian Mackay and Alexander Matheson, married Alexander Sutherland, son of Alexander Sutherland and Margaret Mackay. Alexander Sutherland and Catherine Matheson had Margaret, born 1864; Marion, born 1867; John, born 1874 and Elizabeth, born 1876 - all born at Birichen. There is another researcher working on this family. By private email I will send you her address. Christine

Jeff: Sorry, I don't. My direct line of McKenzies left Scotland in 1803. I don't know anything about any others who may have stayed. Cathy MacKenzie Halifax, NS VIEW MY GENEALOGY WEBSITE: http://members.tripod.com/camack48 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Anderson" <aldbar@loxinfo.co.th> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 7:14 PM Subject: Re: Golspie's Story > Do you, by any chance, have a Donald McKenzie, born around 1826-1830 in the > Golspie area.

***************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. ***************************************************************************** Kirtomy is in the parish of Farr on the north coast of Sutherland a few miles east of Bettyhill. It was a township on the Sutherland estate. There were 20 households in 1811 (Census return). Two Macdonald households: George and William. No less than 25 families living there in 1819, including a John Macdonald. Malcolm Bangor-Jones -----Original Message----- From: Ron and Cathy Wagner [mailto:rwagner@xcelco.on.ca] Sent: 03 April 2001 04:56 To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: MCDONALD ******************************************************************* This email has been received from an external party and has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ******************************************************************* Hi list I am new to the list but would like some direction if possible Does anyone know how I would get transcriptions of a place called Kirtomay/Kirktome, Farr, Sutherlandshire...... I am looking for my MCDONALD family from there, so far what I have is John MCDONALD b unknown wife Margaret children so far listed are Mary born 1806 Grace born 1810 William born 1816 Jane born July 12 1817 There could be and probably is more children but I have not yet found them. does anyone have any suggestions as to where I go from here I cannot find this place called Kirtomay/Kirtome at all Cathy ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB

***************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. ***************************************************************************** According to Major William Clunes at Crakaig, his brother Captain Gordon Clunes was drowned in the River Brora on 27 July 1811. Captain Gordon was proceeding homewards from the local Militia Headquarters in Dornoch after a period of duty. "Having rode an unmanageable horse driving along the road towards the Bridge of Brora, the animal leaped with his rider over the parapet of the Bridge and both were precipitated on the other side lifeless." The body was carried down stream a considerable way and despite a search on Saturday was not found until Sunday morning. Malcolm Bangor-Jones -----Original Message----- From: Christine Stokes [mailto:chris@northants26.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: 02 April 2001 19:39 To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: SUT - CLUNES ******************************************************************* This email has been received from an external party and has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ******************************************************************* Hello Lyndall As the pedigree you talk about was prepared by Alistair Gordon and as you say the writing is tiny I think you have a copy of the Sir Robert Gordon tree. Alistair sent me a copy of this a few years ago and it is absolutely fascinating. I also think you have found your 3 x great grandfather. You have to see the Kirk Session records somehow to be certain or why not write to Alistair who lives in London. He is quite an authority on this area. If you do not have his mailing address write to me privately. Christine -----Original Message----- From: Lyndall [mailto:lyfrah@goldweb.com.au] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 6:24 PM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: SUT - CLUNES Many, many thanks to all you wonderful people who have responded to my query about my CLUNES family. I have been chasing them for years and have even engaged a couple of researchers in the past with very little gained. However, if I can find the evidence that the Captain Gordon CLUNES who died at Bronar Bridge is MY Captain, I'll be off and running!!! It looks like this man is my 3xGGrandfather. Some time back I was sent a photocopy of a hand written pedigree of the CLUNES family which was prepared by someone named Alistair Gordon, however, I've never seen any link between this pedigree and the very little data I have for my family. The chart is in the tiniest handwriting (& my eyes are growing dim) BUT, it has a Gordon CLUNES who died at Bronar Bridge on 27 July 1811. Their are no descendants recorded for this man, but if he's mine, then I suppose it's because his son was illegitimate. According to the chart, Gordon CLUNES, born 1736/7, a Lt. Col who died Crakaig 17 March 1814, and his wife, Anne GORDON, daughter of John GORDON of Carroll had the following children: John, Lt 1st Ft. died West Indies Archibald, died West Indies William (only surviving son by 1811), 22 years in Army including 20 years in 50 Ft.; offers to sell commission in 1811, nearest relation of late Carroll; Capt. 93rd Ft.; Maj. Sutherland Fencibles 1794; Dornoch councillor 1812-14; died 24 November 1830. Son George born 8 June 1819; daughter Ann born 1819 *Gordon, died 27 July 1811 Brora Bridge; Dornoch Councillor 1808-1811; Capt. 93 Ft; issue 1 daughter 2 other sons, dead by 1811 (?incl Hector d. 1795) Margaret, marr. J.J. ??? a surgeon; a child of hers succeeds to Crakaig on death of Maj. William; son William killed Peninsula War; son Gordon 2 more daughters Elizabeth, died 1837 Anne, born 24 Feb. 1787, died 11 Nov. 1881; married by 1808 Joseph GORDON of Carroll These people have been traced back to an Archibald CLUNACE from Cromarty in 1338. If they are mine, I'll have to start looking at GORDONs! And Malcolm, on this tree there is an Alexander CLUNES of Nielston who was a collector of cess (?) for Cromarty in 1678, his son John went to Sutherland where he was the Earl's factor . Much of this data seems to have been sourced from something/someone called Sage. Thanks a lot everyone - I now am filled with renewed hope. Lyndall Canberra, Oz. -------------------------------------------- The Clunes clan in Sutherland all descend from Clunes of Neilston near Cromarty. If memory serves me right, they lived at Lothbeg. They suffered terrible losses from Rebel troops in 1746 but, surviving financial difficulties in the 1750s, they later successfully made the transition from Highland tacksmen to large farmers in the post Clearance era. Gordon and horse actually tumbled off Brora Bridge. Malcolm Bangor-Jones ******************************************************************* ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp Search over 2500 databases with one easy query! --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.237 / Virus Database: 115 - Release Date: 3/7/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.237 / Virus Database: 115 - Release Date: 3/7/01 ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2

I have discovered that I have been looking for a wrong family due to misinformation - doesn't everyone at some stage. I thought that my Robert Farquhar MCKAY was married to Elspeth CAMPBELL when in fact it appears that he married Elizabeth MCKAY. They lived in the Reay area. Is there anyone out there who has a connection with this family. Cheers. Pat Rawlings

I am wondering if, when a woman has the same maiden name as her married name whether the one registeration is all you get in the cross reference check. I have a Elizabeth McKay who supposedly died in 1883. Her maiden name was also McKay and there is only one entry for that year. Thank you. Pat Rawlings

Just wondering if any new list members were related to the following MUNRO's around Golspie, particularly Drummuie. John MUNRO b.c. 1795 Golspie m Eliza SUTHERLAND c.1815 -no records of both these dates. John is listed as a shoemaker then labourer. issue; 1816-1895- Catherine, died spinster at Drummuie 1820- - John, shoemaker of Golspie, m. Ann SUTHERLAND dau of Donald. 1822-1876- Hugh m Christina McLEAN in 1852 at Loth-dau of John & Flora came to Aus 1853. 1823- -James - no info-not in 1881 census-where did he go? 1828-1864- Joseph-to Aus 1852 m. Maria ELLIS 1829- -Jean- no info-did she die? 1833- -Jane m. Gilbert MITCHELL 1859 Golspie I am unable to find John MUNRO's parentage, so I have come to a dead end. Eliza (Elspat) SUTHERLAND was born c. 1797 and died at Drummuie in 1876. She was the dau of James SUTHERLAND and Jane nee SUTHERLAND who were married at Golspie in 1796. Does anyone have a copy of the 1841,1851,1861 census for Golspie? Christine found the MUNRO family were in Drummuie as far back as 1760's but I cannot link my John to them. ANY help would be most appreciated. Lizzi

Dear Cathy, Do you, by any chance, have a Donald McKenzie, born around 1826-1830 in the Golspie area. Regards, Geoff Anderson ----- Original Message ----- From: Cathy MacKenzie <c.mackenzie@attcanada.net> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, 2 April 2001 08:44 Subject: Golspie's Story > Christine and all: > > There was some discussion earlier on the book Golspie's Story and I meant to send an email then, but didn't. > > There is a William McKenzie listed in the "List of the People of Golspy that Contributed for the Support of Government on May 24, 1798." This William is listed under the place name of "Uppat." My William McKenzie would have been approx. 27 years of age in 1798. His first child was christened in Scotary in 1802 so it seems as if he lived in that area at that time. He emigrated with his wife and one child from Kintradwell in 1803. Would it be likely that this reference to this William McKenzie might be my guy? I have not been able to find any other William McKenzies in the area at that time, although I will admit my searching ability is somewhat limited. There is one other William McKenzie in Golspie's Story, but definitely a different individual. > > Any suggestions anyone? > > Cathy MacKenzie > Halifax, NS > VIEW MY GENEALOGY WEBSITE: http://members.tripod.com/camack48 > > ______________________________

Thanks, for that extra bit of info on John FRASER, yes, he was the father of Elizabeth Surtherland ANDERSON (nee FRASER). Christine, thanks for the note on the McGLASHAN burial in Nova Scotia. It is probably not connected but I have noted it for the future. Thanks, Geoff Anderson Original Message ----- From: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, 2 April 2001 09:59 Subject: SCT-SUTHERLAND-D Digest V01 #72

Many, many thanks to all you wonderful people who have responded to my query about my CLUNES family. I have been chasing them for years and have even engaged a couple of researchers in the past with very little gained. However, if I can find the evidence that the Captain Gordon CLUNES who died at Bronar Bridge is MY Captain, I'll be off and running!!! It looks like this man is my 3xGGrandfather. Some time back I was sent a photocopy of a hand written pedigree of the CLUNES family which was prepared by someone named Alistair Gordon, however, I've never seen any link between this pedigree and the very little data I have for my family. The chart is in the tiniest handwriting (& my eyes are growing dim) BUT, it has a Gordon CLUNES who died at Bronar Bridge on 27 July 1811. Their are no descendants recorded for this man, but if he's mine, then I suppose it's because his son was illegitimate. According to the chart, Gordon CLUNES, born 1736/7, a Lt. Col who died Crakaig 17 March 1814, and his wife, Anne GORDON, daughter of John GORDON of Carroll had the following children: John, Lt 1st Ft. died West Indies Archibald, died West Indies William (only surviving son by 1811), 22 years in Army including 20 years in 50 Ft.; offers to sell commission in 1811, nearest relation of late Carroll; Capt. 93rd Ft.; Maj. Sutherland Fencibles 1794; Dornoch councillor 1812-14; died 24 November 1830. Son George born 8 June 1819; daughter Ann born 1819 *Gordon, died 27 July 1811 Brora Bridge; Dornoch Councillor 1808-1811; Capt. 93 Ft; issue 1 daughter 2 other sons, dead by 1811 (?incl Hector d. 1795) Margaret, marr. J.J. ??? a surgeon; a child of hers succeeds to Crakaig on death of Maj. William; son William killed Peninsula War; son Gordon 2 more daughters Elizabeth, died 1837 Anne, born 24 Feb. 1787, died 11 Nov. 1881; married by 1808 Joseph GORDON of Carroll These people have been traced back to an Archibald CLUNACE from Cromarty in 1338. If they are mine, I'll have to start looking at GORDONs! And Malcolm, on this tree there is an Alexander CLUNES of Nielston who was a collector of cess (?) for Cromarty in 1678, his son John went to Sutherland where he was the Earl's factor . Much of this data seems to have been sourced from something/someone called Sage. Thanks a lot everyone - I now am filled with renewed hope. Lyndall Canberra, Oz. -------------------------------------------- The Clunes clan in Sutherland all descend from Clunes of Neilston near Cromarty. If memory serves me right, they lived at Lothbeg. They suffered terrible losses from Rebel troops in 1746 but, surviving financial difficulties in the 1750s, they later successfully made the transition from Highland tacksmen to large farmers in the post Clearance era. Gordon and horse actually tumbled off Brora Bridge. Malcolm Bangor-Jones *******************************************************************

Many thanks Sheila, No, I don't have the 1881 census. Thanks for that. The Christina you mention would be Gordon's second daughter by that name and this one (unlike mine) was legitimate, as Gordon married the mother of the second Christina/Christian. Lyndall ----- Original Message ----- Hi Lyndall, Have you got the 1881 census because your Gordon is at Lillieshall Street, Helmsdale with his daughter Christina? Sheila Mackay ______________________________

Hi list I am new to the list but would like some direction if possible Does anyone know how I would get transcriptions of a place called Kirtomay/Kirktome, Farr, Sutherlandshire...... I am looking for my MCDONALD family from there, so far what I have is John MCDONALD b unknown wife Margaret children so far listed are Mary born 1806 Grace born 1810 William born 1816 Jane born July 12 1817 There could be and probably is more children but I have not yet found them. does anyone have any suggestions as to where I go from here I cannot find this place called Kirtomay/Kirtome at all Cathy

Hi Ray - You might enjoy railway links on Chris Tolley's UK web site: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/cj.tolley/contents.htm The Great Central Railway and Migration from Europe to North America (I) is at http://web.ukonline.co.uk/cj.tolley/gcr-190307-mig.htm and may trigger some ideas of where else to look. The Great Central Railway and Migration from Europe to North America (II) is at http://web.ukonline.co.uk/cj.tolley/gcr-190307-mig2.htm There's an e-mail address on the second Migration page. Good luck and best wishes, Frances

My ancestor JOHN SUTHERLAND lived at Ladies loch Clyne & died in or before 1855 his wife was HENRIETTA MACKAY born around 1788 d 10/2/1860 I wonder if he could have come from Dornoch ----- Original Message ----- From: judy rogers <jrog44@hotmail.com> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 10:58 AM Subject: SUTHERLAND/MUNRO FAMILIES > > > Hi All, > > > Just reposting my family interests. The first being the family of ALEXANDER > SUTHERLAND. He was born February 1756 Golspie and in December 1785 married > MARON MCKAY (MACKAY) in Dornoch. Maron died July 1830 at Birichen, Dornoch. > They had the following children: > > David born 1785 Dornoch . > James born 1790 Dornoch. > John born 1791 Dornoch, > Margaret born 1793 Dornoch. > John born 1795 Dornoch. > Helen born June 1804. (My gg grandmother) > Kenneth born 1809. > > I have not yet been able to verify who their spouses were with the exception > of Helen. The surnames I think may be possibilities are ROSS, MACKAY, > GRANT, MATHESON, MCLEOD and MCDONALD. > > > My other family is the family of ANGUS MUNRO and CHRISTINA GRAHAM. > Angus was born September 1770 in Cromarty and married Christina Graham in > 1787. Their first three children William 1788, Hector 1790, Hugh 1793 were > all born in Ross & Cromarty . > Their next son Donald was born c 1801 Sutherlandshire, but I can find no > record of his birth. The next three children Margaret 1802 Dornoch, James > 1805 Skibo Dornoch and Christian 1808 Cyderhall Dornoch. > > Spouse possibles for the above except Donald who married Helen Sutherland in > 1826 Dornoch are ROSE, MANN, FRASER and MCKAY. > > If anyone has a connection with these families or any of the surnames > mentioned I would like to hear from them. I know that Sutherland and Munro > are very common names but I hope that someone may be able to at least let me > know if I am on th right track. > > > Regards, > > Judy. > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com >

Hello Lyndall As the pedigree you talk about was prepared by Alistair Gordon and as you say the writing is tiny I think you have a copy of the Sir Robert Gordon tree. Alistair sent me a copy of this a few years ago and it is absolutely fascinating. I also think you have found your 3 x great grandfather. You have to see the Kirk Session records somehow to be certain or why not write to Alistair who lives in London. He is quite an authority on this area. If you do not have his mailing address write to me privately. Christine -----Original Message----- From: Lyndall [mailto:lyfrah@goldweb.com.au] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 6:24 PM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: SUT - CLUNES Many, many thanks to all you wonderful people who have responded to my query about my CLUNES family. I have been chasing them for years and have even engaged a couple of researchers in the past with very little gained. However, if I can find the evidence that the Captain Gordon CLUNES who died at Bronar Bridge is MY Captain, I'll be off and running!!! It looks like this man is my 3xGGrandfather. Some time back I was sent a photocopy of a hand written pedigree of the CLUNES family which was prepared by someone named Alistair Gordon, however, I've never seen any link between this pedigree and the very little data I have for my family. The chart is in the tiniest handwriting (& my eyes are growing dim) BUT, it has a Gordon CLUNES who died at Bronar Bridge on 27 July 1811. Their are no descendants recorded for this man, but if he's mine, then I suppose it's because his son was illegitimate. According to the chart, Gordon CLUNES, born 1736/7, a Lt. Col who died Crakaig 17 March 1814, and his wife, Anne GORDON, daughter of John GORDON of Carroll had the following children: John, Lt 1st Ft. died West Indies Archibald, died West Indies William (only surviving son by 1811), 22 years in Army including 20 years in 50 Ft.; offers to sell commission in 1811, nearest relation of late Carroll; Capt. 93rd Ft.; Maj. Sutherland Fencibles 1794; Dornoch councillor 1812-14; died 24 November 1830. Son George born 8 June 1819; daughter Ann born 1819 *Gordon, died 27 July 1811 Brora Bridge; Dornoch Councillor 1808-1811; Capt. 93 Ft; issue 1 daughter 2 other sons, dead by 1811 (?incl Hector d. 1795) Margaret, marr. J.J. ??? a surgeon; a child of hers succeeds to Crakaig on death of Maj. William; son William killed Peninsula War; son Gordon 2 more daughters Elizabeth, died 1837 Anne, born 24 Feb. 1787, died 11 Nov. 1881; married by 1808 Joseph GORDON of Carroll These people have been traced back to an Archibald CLUNACE from Cromarty in 1338. If they are mine, I'll have to start looking at GORDONs! And Malcolm, on this tree there is an Alexander CLUNES of Nielston who was a collector of cess (?) for Cromarty in 1678, his son John went to Sutherland where he was the Earl's factor . Much of this data seems to have been sourced from something/someone called Sage. Thanks a lot everyone - I now am filled with renewed hope. Lyndall Canberra, Oz. -------------------------------------------- The Clunes clan in Sutherland all descend from Clunes of Neilston near Cromarty. If memory serves me right, they lived at Lothbeg. They suffered terrible losses from Rebel troops in 1746 but, surviving financial difficulties in the 1750s, they later successfully made the transition from Highland tacksmen to large farmers in the post Clearance era. Gordon and horse actually tumbled off Brora Bridge. Malcolm Bangor-Jones ******************************************************************* ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp Search over 2500 databases with one easy query! --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.237 / Virus Database: 115 - Release Date: 3/7/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.237 / Virus Database: 115 - Release Date: 3/7/01