Very interesting reading. I look forward to reading more. Isabella. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Stokes" <chris@northants26.freeserve.co.uk> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 7:06 AM Subject: RE: Memorabilia Domestica > Hi Rena > You also are a treasure and a very brave person to offer such a thing. A > list of the names of persons in Memorabilia will inevitably bring you much > further work. The names alone mean little and people will want the 'story'! > Perhaps those who have the book or access to the book could type and post > the various 'worthwhile' stories during the coming months? > > I feel I also must offer the information to the list that most of the people > discussed in this book are of a class above the common crofter so for the > majority there will be little genealogical detail but lots of social > interest. > > This is an example: > "A family named Murray, lived at the place of Tuaraidh, Kildonan. The head > of the family was Alexander (Alister) Murray, one of Captain Baigrie's > sub-tenants, as indeed he had been of his predecessor, Major Sutherland of > Midgarty, who held Tuaraidh as a Highland pendicle to Midgarty. Murray's > wife was a sister of Barbara Corbet, my nurse, and an intimacy, in > consequence of this connection, held between us children and the family. My > brother, my sisters, and myself were often invited, and nearly as often went > to spend days and even weeks at Tuaraidh, and the scenery, as well as names > of hill and dale, in that wild and sequestered spot, are still familiar to > me. The Innis mor, the Innis beag, the Lon, as also Tuaraidh-bheag and > Tuaraidh-mhor - the site of Alister Murray's house, of his barn on the brow > of the hill, of his swaggering corn-rigs, of his peat-moss on the banks of > the Loist, which meandered through the Lon, and the houses of his > sub-tenants, are all at this moment vivid in my memory. > > Two events arise as fresh to my remembrance as if they had happened but > yesterday. These are the marriages of Murray's two daughters, Barbara and > Janet. Barbara was married to Robert Mackay, a native of Clyne. At their > wedding my sisters, my brother and I were amused and feasted for nearly a > week, whilst our fellow-guests numbered about fifty. Her sister Janet, a > few years later, also married a young man named Mackay, a younger brother of > William Mackay in Ascaig* [see note below] who was one of my father's > elders, and as single-hearted and sincere a Christian as I ever knew. It > was at Janet's wedding that this impressive incident took place. The > marriage service was performed by my father in church at noon. As was the > practice, after the day's festivities, the guests of both sexes retired to > sleep in the barn. My brother and I were placed beside each other at the > lower end of the building; the season might be about the end of autumn, as I > remember that the nights were dark. So long as the sound of the voices, > after we had all lain down, rang in my ears from all corners, I felt very > drowsy; but when to the hum of speech, a deep silence succeeded, broken only > by the hard breathing of the sleepers, I became wide awake. > > I felt an undefinable dread creep upon me, and looking towards the upper > part of the barn, the whole of which was enveloped in pitchy darkness, I > noticed a white figure gliding slowly down from the upper to the lower part > of the building, where it disappeared. It seemed to be a human form covered > with some white garment hanging about it in loose folds, but although it > passed within little more than a yard of me, I could neither see its > countenance nor even hear the tread of its feet. > > On my way home the next day, I told the circumstance to those who > accompanied us, and they accounted for it by saying that a young woman at > Tuaraidh-bheag had long been confined to bed with consumption, and that she > had been found dead in her bed that morning. Be that as it may, I never > could satisfactorily account for the singular apparition. Had it been any > of my bed-fellows rising in their sleep, and walking in the night-clothes, > which, of course, were white, I could not possibly have perceived them > without the aid of light, and light there was none, either shining from > without through the chinks of the doors, or yet from within. Then how could > the figure pass me without my hearing the tread of its feet. What it was I > am as unable now, after the lapse of forty years, to account for as I was > then." > > Christine > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rena Singleton [mailto:rena@pathtech.org] > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:18 AM > To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Memorabilia Domestica > > "Memorabilia Domestica, or Parish Life in the North of Scotland," is a > rare book. It is a treasure to family genealogists tracing their roots > in Sutherland, especially if their ancestors and their families are > mentioned in the book. > > Since the book is not readily available to everyone, I am offering to > prepare lists of persons named in it ... if others are interested. Does > anyone want these lists? > > Rena > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You > can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.244 / Virus Database: 119 - Release Date: 4/2/01 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.244 / Virus Database: 119 - Release Date: 4/2/01 > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! > http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 > >
Hi Rena You also are a treasure and a very brave person to offer such a thing. A list of the names of persons in Memorabilia will inevitably bring you much further work. The names alone mean little and people will want the 'story'! Perhaps those who have the book or access to the book could type and post the various 'worthwhile' stories during the coming months? I feel I also must offer the information to the list that most of the people discussed in this book are of a class above the common crofter so for the majority there will be little genealogical detail but lots of social interest. This is an example: "A family named Murray, lived at the place of Tuaraidh, Kildonan. The head of the family was Alexander (Alister) Murray, one of Captain Baigrie's sub-tenants, as indeed he had been of his predecessor, Major Sutherland of Midgarty, who held Tuaraidh as a Highland pendicle to Midgarty. Murray's wife was a sister of Barbara Corbet, my nurse, and an intimacy, in consequence of this connection, held between us children and the family. My brother, my sisters, and myself were often invited, and nearly as often went to spend days and even weeks at Tuaraidh, and the scenery, as well as names of hill and dale, in that wild and sequestered spot, are still familiar to me. The Innis mor, the Innis beag, the Lon, as also Tuaraidh-bheag and Tuaraidh-mhor - the site of Alister Murray's house, of his barn on the brow of the hill, of his swaggering corn-rigs, of his peat-moss on the banks of the Loist, which meandered through the Lon, and the houses of his sub-tenants, are all at this moment vivid in my memory. Two events arise as fresh to my remembrance as if they had happened but yesterday. These are the marriages of Murray's two daughters, Barbara and Janet. Barbara was married to Robert Mackay, a native of Clyne. At their wedding my sisters, my brother and I were amused and feasted for nearly a week, whilst our fellow-guests numbered about fifty. Her sister Janet, a few years later, also married a young man named Mackay, a younger brother of William Mackay in Ascaig* [see note below] who was one of my father's elders, and as single-hearted and sincere a Christian as I ever knew. It was at Janet's wedding that this impressive incident took place. The marriage service was performed by my father in church at noon. As was the practice, after the day's festivities, the guests of both sexes retired to sleep in the barn. My brother and I were placed beside each other at the lower end of the building; the season might be about the end of autumn, as I remember that the nights were dark. So long as the sound of the voices, after we had all lain down, rang in my ears from all corners, I felt very drowsy; but when to the hum of speech, a deep silence succeeded, broken only by the hard breathing of the sleepers, I became wide awake. I felt an undefinable dread creep upon me, and looking towards the upper part of the barn, the whole of which was enveloped in pitchy darkness, I noticed a white figure gliding slowly down from the upper to the lower part of the building, where it disappeared. It seemed to be a human form covered with some white garment hanging about it in loose folds, but although it passed within little more than a yard of me, I could neither see its countenance nor even hear the tread of its feet. On my way home the next day, I told the circumstance to those who accompanied us, and they accounted for it by saying that a young woman at Tuaraidh-bheag had long been confined to bed with consumption, and that she had been found dead in her bed that morning. Be that as it may, I never could satisfactorily account for the singular apparition. Had it been any of my bed-fellows rising in their sleep, and walking in the night-clothes, which, of course, were white, I could not possibly have perceived them without the aid of light, and light there was none, either shining from without through the chinks of the doors, or yet from within. Then how could the figure pass me without my hearing the tread of its feet. What it was I am as unable now, after the lapse of forty years, to account for as I was then." Christine -----Original Message----- From: Rena Singleton [mailto:rena@pathtech.org] Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:18 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Memorabilia Domestica "Memorabilia Domestica, or Parish Life in the North of Scotland," is a rare book. It is a treasure to family genealogists tracing their roots in Sutherland, especially if their ancestors and their families are mentioned in the book. Since the book is not readily available to everyone, I am offering to prepare lists of persons named in it ... if others are interested. Does anyone want these lists? Rena ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.244 / Virus Database: 119 - Release Date: 4/2/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.244 / Virus Database: 119 - Release Date: 4/2/01
Hi Rena, I look forward to reading ,I have Grants & Mckays in my ancestry. Darthy -----Original Message----- From: I.L.Singleton <rena@pathtech.org> To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Date: April 10, 2001 8:00 PM Subject: Re: Memorabilia Domestica >The many responses sent directly to me have been unanimously in favor of >the proposal. > >So, here's the plan: As I complete the list of persons named in a >chapter, I will email it to SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com for all to see. > Then, I'll start to work on the next chapter. Please, be patient. It >is a fairly thick book. > >The book is not a directory. It does not contain the names of everyone >who lived in the area. Rather, it is a collection of remembrances about >Sage's childhood and early adult life, stories that he had heard, people >who impressed him and, very often, their relatives. Since Sage and his >father were ministers, many of the people he mentions were ministers, >elders, teachers, his own relatives or well-to-do parishioners, in >addition to school mates and some of the more colourful locals ... and >lots of Grants, Gordons, Rosses, Sutherlands, Frasers, McKays .... > >More soon. >Rena > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > >On 4/11/2001, 2:46:24 AM, "Liz Mason" <liz@mason.ca> wrote regarding >Memorabilia Domestica: > > >> Rena >> Lists are wonderful especially if they have Grants on them! >> Liz > > >> ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== >> You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You >can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > >> ============================== >> Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 >> Source for Family History Online. Go to: >> http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB > > >==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== >You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > >============================== >Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate >your heritage! >http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog > >
The many responses sent directly to me have been unanimously in favor of the proposal. So, here's the plan: As I complete the list of persons named in a chapter, I will email it to SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com for all to see. Then, I'll start to work on the next chapter. Please, be patient. It is a fairly thick book. The book is not a directory. It does not contain the names of everyone who lived in the area. Rather, it is a collection of remembrances about Sage's childhood and early adult life, stories that he had heard, people who impressed him and, very often, their relatives. Since Sage and his father were ministers, many of the people he mentions were ministers, elders, teachers, his own relatives or well-to-do parishioners, in addition to school mates and some of the more colourful locals ... and lots of Grants, Gordons, Rosses, Sutherlands, Frasers, McKays .... More soon. Rena >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< On 4/11/2001, 2:46:24 AM, "Liz Mason" <liz@mason.ca> wrote regarding Memorabilia Domestica: > Rena > Lists are wonderful especially if they have Grants on them! > Liz > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB
Could someone tell me if 'Ausdale, Airdens by Bonar Bridge' was in Sutherland in 1881? or was it in R&C? I'm having trouble locating a James Sutherland, b abt 1864, in the 1881 Census CD. Ron Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario Canada L0S 1J0
Rena Lists are wonderful especially if they have Grants on them! Liz
"Memorabilia Domestica, or Parish Life in the North of Scotland," is a rare book. It is a treasure to family genealogists tracing their roots in Sutherland, especially if their ancestors and their families are mentioned in the book. Since the book is not readily available to everyone, I am offering to prepare lists of persons named in it ... if others are interested. Does anyone want these lists? Rena
I've been lurking for a few weeks and thought I'd put my names forward. All the BRUCE's are from Brora, Clyne Parish Robert BRUCE married to Betty or Effie SUTHERLAND, son Donald Bruce, b 1804, Clyne, married 1834, Isabella URQUHART, b 1804 Golspie Children of Donald, James Bruce, b 1831, William Bruce, b 1833, Before Marriage??? Ann Bruce, b 1835, married 1871, William CHISHOLM, b Edinburgh Robert Bruce, b 1837, married 1874, Christina MCDONALD, b Golspie John Bruce, b 1838, married 1870, Jessie MACKAY, Brora, George Bruce, b 1840, married in Australia 1867, Annie GASTON Donald Bruce, b 1842, married 1872, Helen GORDON, Rogart David Bruce , b 1844, married 1875, Dol(l)ina GUNN, Helmsdale, my g-grandparents Elspet or Elizabeth Bruce, b 1845 Alexander Bruce , b 1850. died young Pleased to hear from anyone who links in to these families. Shirley
Christine --- thanks for that. Doesn't it make your blood boil?!! Sara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Stokes" <chris@northants26.freeserve.co.uk> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 7:51 PM Subject: The Crofting Commission <extract> Hello Thought you would all like to read this. Shows just what a hard time our ancestors had!
Rena, Would appreciate getting a copy if possible. Thank you, Catherine.
Hello Thought you would all like to read this. Shows just what a hard time our ancestors had! After the Crofting Act of 1884 was passed, the new Crofters Commission, had a meeting in Sutherland in 1886, to fix fair rents for local tenants. Among those giving evidence were Robert Gordon, Clashmugach near Clashmore, Dornoch, and his son and heir, John Gordon. John Gordon, tenant of 46 Clashmugach gave evidence to the Commission. He said the croft at Clashmugach was not enough to keep him and his family, and that he went labouring at a daily wage of two shillings. He succeeded to his fathers lease on the croft, and according to that lease, he was obliged to straighten the burns on the land, and also to keep shut a gate on the road leading into the Clashbuie wood. He was unable to do this, as there was no gate to keep shut, but the landlord, Mr Sutherland, wanted to evict him for failure to comply. Mr Sutherland said the heir of Robert Gordon, whoever he might be, was a servant because he was a tenant on his estate, and therefore he must obey Mr Sutherland. John Gordon said the nearest gate was 200 or 300 yards distant from his house. It led to the highroad. He was glad to keep it shut for his own good, to keep his own stock in, but Mr Sutherland said that this was not the gare named in the lease. The Court upheld John Gordon and reduced his rent by one shilling. Johns father, Robert, 37 Clashmugach, aged 62, said he had seven and a half acres of arable land, two and a half acres of pasture for grazing. His father, grandfather and great grandfather had held the croft. He now paid £6.7shilling and 6pence in rent, but his father had paid only £1.10shilling and sixpence. In 1876 he had a lease from Mr Sutherland, but before that, he had put up the steading himself, also the barn and the byre, and in 1884 he roofed the house. He trenched two acres of land, and his father trenced one acre. In 1876 a piece of pasture was taken from him, where he had previously kept three or four beasts. The land yielded poor crops, which were greatly destroyed by game, especially deer. The destruction was now worse than in 1876, so that he could not take the rent out of the place, but paid it from his earnings as a labourer. Mr Sutherland questioned him, saying You were entitled to keep a certain amount of stock, so why did you not do this? Robert replied Because the land wont keep them; what is the use of having stock when the place will not keep them? After many questions on the subject of whether or not Robert had kept more than three sheep the questioning turned again to game. Robert again said there was now more game; a lot of damage caused by hares, rabbits and deer. He goes on to say The deer come down on the place now, and they did not do that in 1876. I was a servant to Mr Dempster in Skibo for 14 years, and I recollect Mr Dempster bring deer to Skibo, and he put them in the wood. I never saw them in the parks at Skibo. In winter during Mr Dempsters time, turnips were carted into the wood for the game. My crops are now destroyed by fallow deer. Mr Sutherland put two wires on top of the dyke to prevent the deer getting over, and charged me interest for the expense. Mr Sutherland denied that it was his deer causing the damage. He could not help it if the deer crossed over from the Duke of Sutherlands grounds. Robert had a ten year lease granted in 1876 by which he was bound to maintain the buldings, but he was not obliged to erect buildings. The court decided his rent should remain the same. By the new law, crofters were allowed to shoot rabbits and hares if in the act of destroying crops, but such was the power of the big landlords that if they did shoot anything, they were imprisoned in jail in Dingwall. The Sheriff said this must stop as the crofters were now entitled to shoot rabbits and haries and feed their families on them, but as soon as the Commission had gone, the old regime resumed. Would love to tell you which book it is from but an old lady in Dornoch sent it to me without the source. I would guess that it is from a book in Dornoch library. Christine --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.244 / Virus Database: 119 - Release Date: 4/2/01
What dates does it cover? It sounds very interesting. Elspeth
Hi Everyone I used to wish I had lived in those days, but when I see all the trouble's that our ancestor's had to face each day, I have to Thank God that I was born now instead. But I still think those generations were interesting even though I'm certain my ancestor's would think I'm off my rocker. Robin -----Original Message----- From: Christine Stokes <chris@northants26.freeserve.co.uk> To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:50 PM Subject: The Crofting Commission >Hello >Thought you would all like to read this. Shows just what a hard time our >ancestors had! > >After the Crofting Act of 1884 was passed, the new Crofters Commission, had >a meeting in Sutherland in 1886, to fix fair rents for local tenants. Among >those giving evidence were Robert Gordon, Clashmugach near Clashmore, >Dornoch, and his son and heir, John Gordon. John Gordon, tenant of 46 >Clashmugach gave evidence to the Commission. He said the croft at >Clashmugach was not enough to keep him and his family, and that he went >labouring at a daily wage of two shillings. He succeeded to his fathers >lease on the croft, and according to that lease, he was obliged to >straighten the burns on the land, and also to keep shut a gate on the road >leading into the Clashbuie wood. He was unable to do this, as there was no >gate to keep shut, but the landlord, Mr Sutherland, wanted to evict him for >failure to comply. > >Mr Sutherland said the heir of Robert Gordon, whoever he might be, was a >servant because he was a tenant on his estate, and therefore he must obey Mr >Sutherland. John Gordon said the nearest gate was 200 or 300 yards distant >from his house. It led to the highroad. He was glad to keep it shut for >his own good, to keep his own stock in, but Mr Sutherland said that this was >not the gare named in the lease. The Court upheld John Gordon and reduced >his rent by one shilling. > >Johns father, Robert, 37 Clashmugach, aged 62, said he had seven and a half >acres of arable land, two and a half acres of pasture for grazing. His >father, grandfather and great grandfather had held the croft. He now paid >£6.7shilling and 6pence in rent, but his father had paid only £1.10shilling >and sixpence. In 1876 he had a lease from Mr Sutherland, but before that, >he had put up the steading himself, also the barn and the byre, and in 1884 >he roofed the house. He trenched two acres of land, and his father trenced >one acre. In 1876 a piece of pasture was taken from him, where he had >previously kept three or four beasts. The land yielded poor crops, which >were greatly destroyed by game, especially deer. The destruction was now >worse than in 1876, so that he could not take the rent out of the place, but >paid it from his earnings as a labourer. > >Mr Sutherland questioned him, saying You were entitled to keep a certain >amount of stock, so why did you not do this? Robert replied Because the >land wont keep them; what is the use of having stock when the place will >not keep them? After many questions on the subject of whether or not >Robert had kept more than three sheep the questioning turned again to game. >Robert again said there was now more game; a lot of damage caused by hares, >rabbits and deer. He goes on to say The deer come down on the place now, >and they did not do that in 1876. I was a servant to Mr Dempster in Skibo >for 14 years, and I recollect Mr Dempster bring deer to Skibo, and he put >them in the wood. I never saw them in the parks at Skibo. In winter during >Mr Dempsters time, turnips were carted into the wood for the game. My >crops are now destroyed by fallow deer. Mr Sutherland put two wires on top >of the dyke to prevent the deer getting over, and charged me interest for >the expense. Mr Sutherland denied that it was his deer causing the damage. >He could not help it if the deer crossed over from the Duke of Sutherlands >grounds. Robert had a ten year lease granted in 1876 by which he was bound >to maintain the buldings, but he was not obliged to erect buildings. The >court decided his rent should remain the same. > >By the new law, crofters were allowed to shoot rabbits and hares if in the >act of destroying crops, but such was the power of the big landlords that if >they did shoot anything, they were imprisoned in jail in Dingwall. The >Sheriff said this must stop as the crofters were now entitled to shoot >rabbits and haries and feed their families on them, but as soon as the >Commission had gone, the old regime resumed. > >Would love to tell you which book it is from but an old lady in Dornoch sent >it to me without the source. I would guess that it is from a book in >Dornoch library. >Christine > > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.244 / Virus Database: 119 - Release Date: 4/2/01 > > >==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== >You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > >============================== >Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp >
Catherine I wonder if the William Bruce married to Janet Gunn discussed in Rena's message, was a brother of Isabella Bruce who married Anderson Murray after the death of his first wife Esther Gunn? Christine -----Original Message----- From: Krusece1@cs.com [mailto:Krusece1@cs.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:57 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Names in Kildonan Riots Hi Rena, Something to add to your message about the Gunns, their daughter Esther married Anderson Murray in Kildonan, son of Peter Murray and Mary Rose. Esther and Anderson had a daughter Roberta who is my direct ancestor. I did not have the information on her family and so was very happy to see it. Catherine ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp Search over 2500 databases with one easy query! --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.244 / Virus Database: 119 - Release Date: 4/2/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.244 / Virus Database: 119 - Release Date: 4/2/01
Hi Rena Many thanks for this. I do have Sage and have considerable information on Alexander - what I really wanted to know was: is there a connection between Dalcharn and Balcharne? Many thanks Christine -----Original Message----- From: I.L.Singleton [mailto:rena@pathtech.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:49 AM To: Christine Stokes Cc: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: ALEXANDER GORDON in DALCHARN Hi Christine, ALEXANDER (or ALASTAIR) GORDON at Dalcharn was described in Sage's Memorabilia Domestica. There is a significant amount of information on him in the chapter, "Home and College Life". Sage mentions a reference earlier in the book but I have not found it yet. ALASTAIR GORDON was a cadet of the GORDONs of Embo. His wife's name is not actually mentioned in this chapter but she was a "lineal descendent of the Strath Uilligh SUTHERLANDs". She had a brother nicknamed "ROB MUILLER". Sons were given as: JOHN, emigrated to America. He died before Sage wrote his memoirs (ca 1840). GILBERT, married a daughter of Capt. JOHN SUTHERLAND of Brora, emigrated to America. ROBERT, had also died before Sage began his writing. WILLIAM, lived at Rosemarkie. Unnamed son, died in Jamaica. Daughters: Eldest daughter, unnamed, married JOHN MACDONALD, tacksman of Ach-Scarclet, Strathmore, Caithness. She emigrated to America after his death. ANNE, married JOHN GORDON of Solus-chraiggie. They lived at Dalcharn. She died in 1849 at Helmsdale. Does this help? There are other bits of info here, like the way Anne prepared the tea (with salt, pepper and butter), Alastair's snuff habit, etc. It's yours for the asking. Rena >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< On 4/9/2001, 2:04:35 AM, "Christine Stokes" <chris@northants26.freeserve.co.uk> wrote regarding RE: Kerrow and Dalcharn: > Rena you are magic! > The Easter Kerrow you found is exactly where I wished it to be!! The > ancestors in question were said to be at Rhelochan which is close to the > area you just described. So yes, this most certainly could be the Kerrow I > am looking for. > You wrote about Robert Gordon or Alexander at Dalcharn and as I have been > looking for more info on the Alexander at Balcharne I wondered could it be > the same guy? > ALEXANDER GORDON [1738-10/3/1816] married ISABELL SUTHERLAND > [1743-12/12/1803] > Alexander, Tacksman in Balcharne, is buried with his wife Isabell in > Kildonan. A son: JOHN WILLIAM, erected the gravestone. Buried with them > is: Isabella 1811-1895, a granddaughter? > Thanks > Christine > -----Original Message----- > From: Rena Singleton [mailto:rena@pathtech.org] > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:41 AM > To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Kerrow and Dalcharn > There is/was an "Easter Kerrow" in the south-east of Rogart Parish. > Easter Kerrow appears to be on (or very near) the River Brora. > Scriberscross, in Clyne, looks to be directly north of it. Both are > north of Knockarthur. Could this be Kerrow township? > Dalcharn is/was located near the junction of the River Free and the River > Helmsdale, north of Borrobol. Reisk is/was to the west of Dalcharn. I > have not yet found a place called Balcharne. I'll keep looking. Can you > give me a hint on where it might have been located? > Rena > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You > can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > ============================== > Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate > your heritage! > http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.244 / Virus Database: 119 - Release Date: 4/2/01 > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.244 / Virus Database: 119 - Release Date: 4/2/01 > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.244 / Virus Database: 119 - Release Date: 4/2/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.244 / Virus Database: 119 - Release Date: 4/2/01
Hi Christine, ALEXANDER (or ALASTAIR) GORDON at Dalcharn was described in Sage's Memorabilia Domestica. There is a significant amount of information on him in the chapter, "Home and College Life". Sage mentions a reference earlier in the book but I have not found it yet. ALASTAIR GORDON was a cadet of the GORDONs of Embo. His wife's name is not actually mentioned in this chapter but she was a "lineal descendent of the Strath Uilligh SUTHERLANDs". She had a brother nicknamed "ROB MUILLER". Sons were given as: JOHN, emigrated to America. He died before Sage wrote his memoirs (ca 1840). GILBERT, married a daughter of Capt. JOHN SUTHERLAND of Brora, emigrated to America. ROBERT, had also died before Sage began his writing. WILLIAM, lived at Rosemarkie. Unnamed son, died in Jamaica. Daughters: Eldest daughter, unnamed, married JOHN MACDONALD, tacksman of Ach-Scarclet, Strathmore, Caithness. She emigrated to America after his death. ANNE, married JOHN GORDON of Solus-chraiggie. They lived at Dalcharn. She died in 1849 at Helmsdale. Does this help? There are other bits of info here, like the way Anne prepared the tea (with salt, pepper and butter), Alastair's snuff habit, etc. It's yours for the asking. Rena >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< On 4/9/2001, 2:04:35 AM, "Christine Stokes" <chris@northants26.freeserve.co.uk> wrote regarding RE: Kerrow and Dalcharn: > Rena you are magic! > The Easter Kerrow you found is exactly where I wished it to be!! The > ancestors in question were said to be at Rhelochan which is close to the > area you just described. So yes, this most certainly could be the Kerrow I > am looking for. > You wrote about Robert Gordon or Alexander at Dalcharn and as I have been > looking for more info on the Alexander at Balcharne I wondered could it be > the same guy? > ALEXANDER GORDON [1738-10/3/1816] married ISABELL SUTHERLAND > [1743-12/12/1803] > Alexander, Tacksman in Balcharne, is buried with his wife Isabell in > Kildonan. A son: JOHN WILLIAM, erected the gravestone. Buried with them > is: Isabella 1811-1895, a granddaughter? > Thanks > Christine > -----Original Message----- > From: Rena Singleton [mailto:rena@pathtech.org] > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:41 AM > To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Kerrow and Dalcharn > There is/was an "Easter Kerrow" in the south-east of Rogart Parish. > Easter Kerrow appears to be on (or very near) the River Brora. > Scriberscross, in Clyne, looks to be directly north of it. Both are > north of Knockarthur. Could this be Kerrow township? > Dalcharn is/was located near the junction of the River Free and the River > Helmsdale, north of Borrobol. Reisk is/was to the west of Dalcharn. I > have not yet found a place called Balcharne. I'll keep looking. Can you > give me a hint on where it might have been located? > Rena > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You > can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > ============================== > Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate > your heritage! > http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.244 / Virus Database: 119 - Release Date: 4/2/01 > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.244 / Virus Database: 119 - Release Date: 4/2/01 > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB
I am beginning with an apology to Joan Wilton and to other GUNN researchers for an error made in my posting naming those cited in the Kildonan Riots of 1813. Joan is descended from the Dalangal GUNN family. Her ancestor, DONALD GUNN was on the Prince of Wales in 1813 and, presumably, he was the man mentioned by Lord Selkirk in his letter to Miles Macdonnell. My apologies, Joan, I should never try to post from memory I'm getting to old. DONALD GUNN, father of ROBERT GUNN, was one of the Rev. Alexander Sage's tenants in Kildonan. He was married to ESTHER SUTHERLAND, a native of Caithness. The IGI lists nine children for them, all born in Kildonan. They were: GUNN, ROBERT, Birth: 19 Apr 1791, GUNN, DONALD, Birth: 19 Mar 1795, GUNN, JEAN, Birth: 16 Feb 1797, GUNN, JAMES, Birth: 9 Jan 1799, GUNN, ALEXANDER, Birth: 25 Mar 1801, GUNN, CHRISTIAN, Birth: 20 Apr 1803, GUNN, ANGUS, Birth: 11 Apr 1805, GUNN, ESTHER, Birth: 24 Apr 1807, GUNN, GEORGE, Birth: 17 Aug 1809. There is no daughter named MARY, the name of a passenger on the Prince of Wales who traveled with her brother, ROBERT GUNN, Piper. However, there is evidence that the list is incomplete. Sage, in Memorabilia Domestica, wrote that DONALD GUNN's daughter JANET married a man named BRUCE from Loist. JANET is not included in the recorded births but the IGI gives a marriage for JANET GUNN to WILLIAM BRUCE, 12 Sep 1811, supporting Sage's statement. Sage also said that daughter JANE (JEAN) married a MALCOLM FRASER, who was afterwards drowned at Helmisdale. Of ROBERT, Sage wrote: "His son Robert went to America with Lord Selkirk's colony, and in an affray between these settlers and those of the North West Company poor Robert Gunn was killed." The evidence suggests that his father, DONALD GUNN remained in Scotland. Rena
Hi Rena, Something to add to your message about the Gunns, their daughter Esther married Anderson Murray in Kildonan, son of Peter Murray and Mary Rose. Esther and Anderson had a daughter Roberta who is my direct ancestor. I did not have the information on her family and so was very happy to see it. Catherine
Christine sorry no Gordon's or Mackay's at the Strathglass Kerrow My Rogart family were JAMES & MARGARET MACBEATH NEE SUTHERLAND living at ACHNAGASSON IN THE 1881 CENSUS Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: Christine Stokes <chris@northants26.freeserve.co.uk> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 8:20 AM Subject: RE: Kerrow > Ian, any Gordon's or Mackay's amongst your ancestors in Kerrow? > Christine > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Iain Sutherland [mailto:iain_sutherland@totalise.co.uk] > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 8:34 PM > To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Zorra > > There is a Kerrow a couple of miles from Cannich in Strathglass I had > ancestors there in 1884 married Hugh Robertson Iain > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lynn Munro <ornum@execulink.com> > To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:12 PM > Subject: Re: Zorra > > > > Christine, > > I do not know where Kerrow is. I have some information passed on to me > from > > the historian of Clan MacKay W. Alex MacKay in which he stated the > > following" My research into the Rogart MacKays has been superficial > to-date, > > but I can find no record of George and his wife residing in Rhilochan in > > Rogart Parish. As you said their six children were born in Rogart between > > 1796 and 1806. But they were all born in the township of Kerrow." He goes > on > > to say " The tenants in Rhilochan at that time were MacKays, a John and > his > > wife Christian Sutherland who had a son Angus there in 1797 and a son > > William in 1799. In 1800 they were replaced by Murdoch and Kate MacKay. By > > 1810 a George MacKay tenanted Rhilochan, but his wife was a Sibella > McDonald > > and between then and 1824 , they had four children Hector, Jane, John and > > William. Could this be your George who remarried after Janet Gordon died > and > > at that time moved from Kerrow to Rhilochan? The reason why Janet Gordon's > > first child was not born in Kerrow probably was that George and Janet > > followed the usual Highland tradition where the birth of the first > > grandchild takes place in the mother's parents home. Find William's > > birthplace and perhaps you may find Janet's parents. Janet was a popular > > Gordon name." Just thought you might be interested. Lynn > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Christine Stokes <chris@northants26.freeserve.co.uk> > > To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:33 AM > > Subject: RE: Zorra > > > > > > > Hi Lynn > > > Langdale is in Strathnaver which is in Farr parish, in the north of the > > > county. > > > Blarich or Blairich is in Rogart parish. > > > Both the IGI and the OPRs show children of Janet Gordon and George > Mackay > > > born in Rogart parish, probably at Rhelochan. Where is the Kerrow > > township > > > you mention? > > > Both the Gordons of Langdale and the Munros of Blarich were from earlier > > > 'substantial' families. > > > The Munro family can trace back to Donald Balloch Mackay, born circa > 1550, > > > son of Iye Du Mackay. > > > Bessie Munro was the daughter of Robert Munro of Blarich. Robert > Munro's > > > parents were Hugh Munro of Achany and Christian Mackay - so there are > > plenty > > > of Mackays in the family. > > > The fact that your George's mother was said to be the wife of a > blacksmith > > > may well mean that Janet Gordon "married beneath" herself but in those > > days, > > > after the 1745, everything was changing anyway. Strathnaver would itself > > be > > > emptied only a few years later when the Clearances started to hit. > > > Although William Gordon still styled himself 'of Langdale' I believe he > > was > > > living in Rogart when his children were born! > > > I wish I knew more about this family because I am firmly of the opinion > > that > > > Barbara Gordon, my 4 x great grandmother, is also a daughter of William > > > Gordon. I will keep on looking in the hope that one day it will all be > > > solved. > > > In the meantime any little snippets are most welcome!! > > > Christine > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Lynn Munro [mailto:ornum@execulink.com] > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 6:47 PM > > > To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: Zorra > > > > > > Christine, > > > In answer to your question regarding Janet Gordon this is what I have. > > Janet > > > Gordon daughter of William Gordon of Langdale and Bessie Munro. Bessie's > > > father was Robert Munro of Blarich. Can you tell me what or where is > > > Langdale? I do not know where Janet and George Mackay's first son > William > > > was born. It has been suggested that if we find where he was born then > we > > > will be assured that Janet is in deed the daughter of William Gordon of > > > Langdale. It has also been suggested that following highland tradition > > Janet > > > would have had her first child in the home of her parents which accounts > > for > > > why all the other children were listed as born in Kerrow township but > > > William is not. Then maybe we can prove that Janet and Barbara were > > sisters. > > > Lynn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Christine Stokes <chris@northants26.freeserve.co.uk> > > > To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 3:58 AM > > > Subject: Zorra > > > > > > > > > > Hi again Lynn > > > > Do you have any further information on Janet Gordon, wife of George > > Mackay > > > > of Rhelochan, Rogart? > > > > I believe this Janet Gordon may be a sister of my 4 x great > grandmother, > > > > Barbara Gordon. > > > > Any info would be helpful. > > > > Many thanks > > > > Best wishes > > > > Christine > > > > chris@northants26.freeserve.co.uk > > > > > > > > Highland Hearts > > > > http://www.highlandhearts.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > > Version: 6.0.237 / Virus Database: 115 - Release Date: 3/7/01 > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > > > > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. > > You > > > can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > > > > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > > > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. > You > > > can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > > > > > ============================== > > > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > > > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > > > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library > > > > > > > > > --- > > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.237 / Virus Database: 115 - Release Date: 3/7/01 > > > > > > --- > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.237 / Virus Database: 115 - Release Date: 3/7/01 > > > > > > > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > > > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. > You > > can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > > > > > ============================== > > > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > > > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > > > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You > can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > > > ============================== > > Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp > > Search over 2500 databases with one easy query! > > > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You > can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.237 / Virus Database: 115 - Release Date: 3/7/01 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.244 / Virus Database: 119 - Release Date: 4/2/01 > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB >
I am putting up what we know about our Ontario family connections in the hope that someone finds them useful: William Mackay b.1805 Dornoch m. Christine Matheson 1829 Dornoch and emigrated to East Williams Co Middlesex Ontario 1834 (address 16 Concession). Family: 1.Lilias b. a 1830 Dornoch stayed behind, nothing more known. 2.John b. abt 1831 d. 1892 East Williams, m. Ella Matheson 1860 East Williams.Their family: John b. 1861 m. Dora Barnes childrem William & Grant. Whilene m. ?Hobbs Mary Ann m. Hugh Ross son John Mackay Ross (of Windsor Ont.) Christina d. young. 3.Helen b. abt 1832 d. abt 1880 at Zorra m. John Mackay 1853 at East Williams: family b. at West Zorra; Donald, Hellen, John, William, Angus, James, Jennie, Christine. 4. Angus b. 1835 d abt 1918 east Williams 5. Alexanderina b. 1837 m. Donald Munro 1857 East Williams family: Ellen m ? Baird son Hugh station master at Chesley, dau Lilian Christina lived in Toronto Annie m. ? Sown Lily died young Hughina d. 1948 Canadian West, buried in nairn Cemetry Inza m. ? McCall dau Dorothy lived in Toronto. Margaret lived in Toronto with neice Dorothy above. William Donald 6. Christina b. 1840 m. Robert Ross 1857 East Williams family b. Williams: Isabella m. Dan McDougal Ann m. Robert Thomson Ailsa Craig Christina m. Hugh Scott Donald William John R. lived at Ailsa Craig 7 William b. 1842 d. by1892 leaving family at St Pauls Minnesota Etta m. John Ross children David, Hugh, William, John Daavid lived at London Ont. Hugh William John 8. Mary 1845 - 1860 Information from family letters, contacts in 1950s, Ontario census 1842/1851/1871. Any Luck? Ann Mackay