Hello Rena, I don't think that the same still applies, but it used to be that when an army officer retired, he was promoted by one rank. This could explain why Kenneth Mackay, who did not rise higher than a lieutenant during his army career, was later referred to as "Captain". This system of promotion upon retirement explains why there used to be so many retired colonels around. Lots of men were obliged to retire when they were majors and, upon retirement, became lieutenant colonel - the gouty old fellows often referred to in cartoons etc. :o) Sage was not the only one who was inconsistent in his spelling of CLUNES; I have come across Cluness, Clunas, Clunis and Clunise! Lyndall ----- Original Message ----- Yesterday's quote on John and Kenneth Mackay from Mem. Dom. illustrated this question on military titles and honorifics. Sage wrote the Kenneth Mackay did not rise higher than lieutenant during his army career, yet refers to him as "captain." Can anyone explain why? Sage also mentioned a Colonel Cluness and a Captain Cluness. Does anyone know whether these are two different men, or simply different honorifics? (I also should mention that Sage was inconsistent in his spelling. Cluness, as an example, was spelled both "Cluness" and "Clunes". His spelling of Gaelic words or place names was even more variable.) Rena

Hello list You may recall that yesterday I sent a message to Nick Lindsay about his work on the old graveyard of Clyne. I have now received the following reply from him. I think what he is doing is very worthwhile. He has information to give as well as receive so please feel free to contact him if you think he can help you. Christine -----Original Message----- From: Nick Lindsay [mailto:nick.lindsay@highland.gov.uk] Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 11:05 AM To: 'Christine Stokes' Subject: RE: Clyne (Old) Cemetery Christine, Thanks for your e-mail. It sounds as though there is a great deal of interest in Clyne Cemetery from your connections and I am delighted to hear that.. Let me try to allay your fears. * Why have I done it? I have undertaken the research of the graveyard when I discovered that the good work done previously by Cowper & Ross published in their work 'Pre-1855 Tombstone Inscriptions in Sutherland' was lacking in some finer detail as well as accuracy. So, I re-transcribed all of the inscriptions, not just those dating pre-1855, and now have a complete list of all details from the graveyard. * Who am I and what are my motives? Well, I have just become Chairman of Clyne Heritage Society, having been Secretary for the last 3 years since the Society's inception. However, having no family ties to the area, I thought it may be an interesting project to bring the neglected graveyard and derelict former church to life for the community and for visitors. I have also recently been invited to become editor of the Highland Family History Society journal, so thought that I would use that medium to try to gain some further information, rather than just have an uninspiring collection of names and dates. This route has obviously worked as you will now know that I received correspondence from Ian Morrison. * What will I do with the information? I would love to say that I have a get rich quick scheme up my sleeve, because I would dearly love to have a more exciting and rewarding form of employment. I currently work in the Highland Council Roads & Transport Design Office in Brora, which is OK, but it is not my dream! Now wearing two heritage/family history hats, I have access to publication which would benefit many people, so I imagine that any publication would be very affordable and acknowledgement for help given would be readily and freely made. Even if it is a personal publication, then both would apply. I somehow cannot see it becoming a best-seller and that I can then retire on the proceeds! I would, therefore, be delighted to receive and collate any information and then, in turn, pass it on to the wider audience. With your help and that of the wider HFHS membership, as well as locals here in Brora, I hope to be able to produce something that is of great interest to a few and maybe of a passing interest to many. I hope that these answers satisfy you, and I would be only too happy to help any of your members with any queries they have about the graveyard. In fact, I have already received a query about Gilchrists from one of your members (Lori Fletcher in Australia) direct. Regards, Nick Lindsay. -----Original Message----- From: Christine Stokes [mailto:chris@northants26.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: 15 April 2001 07:32 To: nick.lindsay@highland.gov.uk Subject: FW: Clyne (Old) Cemetery Dear Dr Lindsay As list manager of the County of Sutherland Rootsweb Mailing List it has been suggested by our members that I contact you regarding the work you are currently doing on the old Clyne Cemetery. Our list has nearly two hundred members from all around the world who keep in touch by email. Many of our members could give you the information which will add flesh to your bones. However, during recent years much has been made of people taking hard earned research and then 'selling it'! Causes a few problems that does. I have received many emails about your work and basically if you can assure us that this is a genuine heritage gathering of information you will receive help. I understand you will publish the work when completed. Presumably this will then be sold at an affordable price? Would you be willing to acknowledge help given? With positive answers to these questions I will be happy to post your response to the list and you should receive your information. On a personal basis I can give you loads of information on the Murrays buried there. My book, "Murray Families of Sutherland" contains much and I will be happy to supply this. If you would like to take a look at the archives for our mailing list you can find them on at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ If you wish to join the list there is a link on my own web site. Look forward to hearing from you. Christine Stokes www.highlandhearts.com -----Original Message----- From: Ian Morrison [mailto:ianmorrison@msn.com] Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 5:28 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Clyne (Old) Cemetery Dear Christine, What follows may be somewhat outside the objects of the list. If it is, please forgive me. I have noticed several subscribers are researching ancestors in the Clyne area and wondered whether some might be interested in responding to an appeal for help that appeared in the latest issue of the Highland Family History Society's Journal. The appeal was from Dr. Nick Lindsay, the Secretary of the Clyne Heritage Society, who has compiled a record of the burials and wishes to add some character to the individual records. With his permission, I quote from his appeal: "I have done a complete transcription of Clyne (Old) Cemetery, substantially revising and improving (he types modestly) the previous published records in Cowper's Pre-1855 Sutherland Monuments edition. I am interested in following this up by appealing for any information that members hold about any of the people buried in the graveyard so that I can add, excuse the expression, flesh to the bones! So rather than just publishing a list of names, places and dates, I would like to be able to add some stories and some history. So if any members have information that they feel might be relevant, please contact me by letter at "Sunnybrae", West Clyne, Brora, Sutherland Kw9 6NH, or by email at nick.lindsay@highland.gov.uk " Dr Lindsay hopes to publish his project when it is complete. In the meantime, the information is in a data base and he would be pleased to respond to any enquiries from researchers who think their ancestors might be buried in Clyne. I do not have the pleasure of knowing Dr. Lindsay, but I do not believe this project is commercially motivated. Ian <br clear=all><hr>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</a>.<br></p> ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01 --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01

Gordon has this book in Aberdeen, it was too big for us to bring back to NZ. Will consult it further when we are over in June. regards, Ann Mackay

Hello Steve Welcome to the list. I am wondering if your family came from Clunell, Lairg? The child James, was christened in Lairg parish on 17 September 1798. Janet and Donald married in Lairg on 14 March 1800. The children shown in the register for them are: William, 21 February 1804; John, 22 June 1806; Hugh, 22 August 1809; John, 15 March 1812; Roderick, 21 August 1814 and Donald, 12 July 1817. These dates may be baptismal rather than birth. The first John probably died as a baby. As you have probably found out the Lairg register did not include the name of the mother until quite late. I checked the graveyard listings around Lairg and Creich thinking that maybe Donald had erected a stone to his first wife but there is not one. I am very interested in the marriage between James Sutherland and Ann Gordon - did this take place in Sutherland? Feel sure someone on this list will be able to help you. Christine -----Original Message----- From: Steven Sutherland [mailto:sksutherland@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 4:53 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: SUT- Sutherlands from Cloenel, Creich Parish, Sutherlandshire Hello everyone. I am new to the list and am really enjoying reading the letters. I am interested in finding out about my ancestors from an area near Lairg, called Cloenel. I have my gggg Grandfathers line directly to me. I don't have much information on 'sisters, cousins, and aunts', etc. It would also be interesting to find info regarding the family before they left Scotland in 1818, such as Donald's first wife, Jane's family. Any help would be appreciated. My direct line is in bold. Donald Sutherland b. Cloenel, Creich Parish, Sutherlandshire, Scotland, 1767 d. 1841, Lansdowne, N.S., married Jane Ross(1st) and Janet(Jessie) MacKay(2nd). Children by Jane Ross: Christie b. 1796 m. John Fraser, Piper(3 sons Simon, Daniel, William); James b. 1798 Children by Janet MacKay: William b. 1803, Jane b. 1802, Donald b. 1800, John Hugh b.1812, Roderick b. 1815. James Sutherland b. 1798, Cloenel, Sutherlandshire, Scotland, married Ann Gordon. Children: Robert b. 1831; James b. 1833, d. 1912, m. Ella Siddall, Bair Verte, NB; Donald b. 1834 (died in Foord Pit Mine Explosion in 1880); Catherine, b. 1836, d. 1921, m. David Pierce, Stewaicke; Jane, b. 1838, d. 1907, m. Hugh Holmes, River John, NS; Isabella, b. 1841, d. 1889; Thomas, b. 1845, d. 1941, m. sara Dorman (1st) and Annie Caldwell(2nd). Robert Sutherland b. 1831, New Lairg, NS d. 1911, Windsor, Hants Co., married Elizabeth Brown. Children: Avon b. 1863; James Stanley b. 10 Dec. 1865; George b. 1867; Annie b. 1869; Mary J. b. 1872; Belle b. 1873. James Stanley Sutherland (b. 1865 Nova Scotia, d. 1926, Birmingham, Alabama) married Adrianna Long (b. 1867, Norwich, CT d. 1936, Birmingham, AL) Children: James Stanley b. 1888; Clyde Avon b. 1891; Francis Scott b. July 31, 1894; Robert Gordon b. 1896; Margaret b. 1899; Sydney Dunbar b. 1901; Helen Elizabeth b. 1909. Francis Scott Sutherland (b. July 31, 1894, NS, d. July 30, 1969, Birmingham, AL) married Bernice Dee Wyatt (b. ~1899, Kentucky, died ~1982, Birmingham, AL). Children: Barbara, married Cecil Giddens; Jane, married Robert A. Weeks; Frank Scott. Frank Scott Sutherland b. Feb. 6, 1930, Birmingham, AL, d. Sept. 18, 1986, married Gloria Sue Price b. July 8, 1929, Birmingham, AL, d. Jan. 25, 2000, Knoxville, TN Children: Francis Scott b. Oct. 20, 1958; Shelby b. May 16, 1960; Steven Price Sutherland (this is me) b. July 14, 1961; Cynthia (now Sydney) b. June 2, 1962. Thanks. Steve Sutherland Minneapolis, MN USA ICQ 6960598 . ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp Search over 2500 databases with one easy query! --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01

Does anyone know if there is a map of the old Sutherlandshire on the web anywhere? If not, could someone give me a rough idea of where the borders were in relation to a modern map? Thank you. Molly McLeod in Toronto

Hi Christine. Thanks for you timely response. > I am wondering if your family came from Clunell, > Lairg? All of the information that we have spells 'Clunell' as Cloenel. I am certain that it is the same place. > Janet and Donald married in Lairg on 14 March 1800. The children shown in the > register for them are: William, 21 February 1804; John, 22 June 1806; Hugh, > 22 August 1809; John, 15 March 1812; Roderick, 21 August 1814 and Donald, 12 > July 1817. These dates may be baptismal rather than birth. > The first John probably died as a baby. We also have a Jane, b. 1802, d. 1867 m. Donald Barclay. Also, we do not show a John and a Hugh, but rather a John Hugh, b. 1812, d. 1882, m. Eliz McDonald. > I am very interested in the marriage between James Sutherland and Ann > Gordon - did this take place in Sutherland? We have no information on the record of marriage for James and Ann Gordon. We have a reference of an earlier marriage for James to Catherine McDonald. James would have been 20 years old when they sailed to NS. What was the typical age of marriage back then? It is possible the marriage took place in Sutherland. Steve Sutherland Minneapolis, MN ICQ 6960958 AIM stevenpsut

Good Morning Richard and welcome to the list. I notice you have one of the sons John married to Christina Murray - was this Christina from Sutherland? I am always looking for Murrays! Christine -----Original Message----- From: Richard Graham [mailto:richard.graham@ns.sympatico.ca] Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 3:31 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Mackay/Bethune from Sutherlandshire, possibly Lairg area Hello everyone. I'm new on this list and am looking to correspond with anyone who may be able to help me establish a link to other ancestors or descendants of one William MacKay born circa 1790 married to Catherine Bethune, born circa 1795. I believe from family history that has been passed down thru the generations that these individuals may have been from or lived in the Rogart/ Lairg area. Catherine Bethune's parents may have been John Bethune and Flora Baton. Johm and Flora immigrated to Shelburne, Nova Scotia, Canada about 1816. John and Flora's daughter remained in Scotland when they immigrated and married William MacKay. William and Catherine had the following family: Alexander (1830), William (1832), John (1835), Donald (1837), Robert (1839), Philip (1842), Margaret (1846), William (1849). Alexander was the first to leave Scotland ( about 1858 ) for Nova Scotia. He stayed in Shelburne with his grandparents for a time and then went to visit some relatives by the name of ROSS in Pictou, later settleing in the Stewiacke Valley area of Colchester County, Nova Scotia. Alexander married Eleanor Brown and it is from these individuals from whom I descend. Alex's brothers, William, John, Donald and Robert also immigrated to Canada. William and John settled in Manitoba in the Canadian west. William was married to Catherine and John to Christina Murray. Donald was also married and died in Canada. Philip died in Oregon, U.S.A. The dates connected to the above individuals may or may not be correct so please consider errors if you think you may be able to help with this family. I would also be interested in pursuing the Bethune surname. To date I've drawn a blank in locating the death place or dates of John and Flora Bethune in Nova Scotia or connecting them with other Bethune's. Thanks in advance for your consideration in assisting with connecting this family to our ancestors in Scotland. Regards, Richard Graham Nova Scotia, Canada ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01

Hello everyone. I'm new on this list and am looking to correspond with anyone who may be able to help me establish a link to other ancestors or descendants of one William MacKay born circa 1790 married to Catherine Bethune, born circa 1795. I believe from family history that has been passed down thru the generations that these individuals may have been from or lived in the Rogart/ Lairg area. Catherine Bethune's parents may have been John Bethune and Flora Baton. Johm and Flora immigrated to Shelburne, Nova Scotia, Canada about 1816. John and Flora's daughter remained in Scotland when they immigrated and married William MacKay. William and Catherine had the following family: Alexander (1830), William (1832), John (1835), Donald (1837), Robert (1839), Philip (1842), Margaret (1846), William (1849). Alexander was the first to leave Scotland ( about 1858 ) for Nova Scotia. He stayed in Shelburne with his grandparents for a time and then went to visit some relatives by the name of ROSS in Pictou, later settleing in the Stewiacke Valley area of Colchester County, Nova Scotia. Alexander married Eleanor Brown and it is from these individuals from whom I descend. Alex's brothers, William, John, Donald and Robert also immigrated to Canada. William and John settled in Manitoba in the Canadian west. William was married to Catherine and John to Christina Murray. Donald was also married and died in Canada. Philip died in Oregon, U.S.A. The dates connected to the above individuals may or may not be correct so please consider errors if you think you may be able to help with this family. I would also be interested in pursuing the Bethune surname. To date I've drawn a blank in locating the death place or dates of John and Flora Bethune in Nova Scotia or connecting them with other Bethune's. Thanks in advance for your consideration in assisting with connecting this family to our ancestors in Scotland. Regards, Richard Graham Nova Scotia, Canada

Hello everyone. I am new to the list and am really enjoying reading the letters. I am interested in finding out about my ancestors from an area near Lairg, called Cloenel. I have my gggg Grandfathers line directly to me. I don't have much information on 'sisters, cousins, and aunts', etc. It would also be interesting to find info regarding the family before they left Scotland in 1818, such as Donald's first wife, Jane's family. Any help would be appreciated. My direct line is in bold. Donald Sutherland b. Cloenel, Creich Parish, Sutherlandshire, Scotland, 1767 d. 1841, Lansdowne, N.S., married Jane Ross(1st) and Janet(Jessie) MacKay(2nd). Children by Jane Ross: Christie b. 1796 m. John Fraser, Piper(3 sons Simon, Daniel, William); James b. 1798 Children by Janet MacKay: William b. 1803, Jane b. 1802, Donald b. 1800, John Hugh b.1812, Roderick b. 1815. James Sutherland b. 1798, Cloenel, Sutherlandshire, Scotland, married Ann Gordon. Children: Robert b. 1831; James b. 1833, d. 1912, m. Ella Siddall, Bair Verte, NB; Donald b. 1834 (died in Foord Pit Mine Explosion in 1880); Catherine, b. 1836, d. 1921, m. David Pierce, Stewaicke; Jane, b. 1838, d. 1907, m. Hugh Holmes, River John, NS; Isabella, b. 1841, d. 1889; Thomas, b. 1845, d. 1941, m. sara Dorman (1st) and Annie Caldwell(2nd). Robert Sutherland b. 1831, New Lairg, NS d. 1911, Windsor, Hants Co., married Elizabeth Brown. Children: Avon b. 1863; James Stanley b. 10 Dec. 1865; George b. 1867; Annie b. 1869; Mary J. b. 1872; Belle b. 1873. James Stanley Sutherland (b. 1865 Nova Scotia, d. 1926, Birmingham, Alabama) married Adrianna Long (b. 1867, Norwich, CT d. 1936, Birmingham, AL) Children: James Stanley b. 1888; Clyde Avon b. 1891; Francis Scott b. July 31, 1894; Robert Gordon b. 1896; Margaret b. 1899; Sydney Dunbar b. 1901; Helen Elizabeth b. 1909. Francis Scott Sutherland (b. July 31, 1894, NS, d. July 30, 1969, Birmingham, AL) married Bernice Dee Wyatt (b. ~1899, Kentucky, died ~1982, Birmingham, AL). Children: Barbara, married Cecil Giddens; Jane, married Robert A. Weeks; Frank Scott. Frank Scott Sutherland b. Feb. 6, 1930, Birmingham, AL, d. Sept. 18, 1986, married Gloria Sue Price b. July 8, 1929, Birmingham, AL, d. Jan. 25, 2000, Knoxville, TN Children: Francis Scott b. Oct. 20, 1958; Shelby b. May 16, 1960; Steven Price Sutherland (this is me) b. July 14, 1961; Cynthia (now Sydney) b. June 2, 1962. Thanks. Steve Sutherland Minneapolis, MN USA ICQ 6960598 .

One of my colonial ancestors was sometimes referred to as Captain although I have found absolutely no references to him or sons having any military or shipping connections. I've come to the conclusion it may have been a term used to show respect much as we use Sir today. I'd be interested in hearing what you make of it. JDW

Published1997 by The Byre, Little Achfrish, Terryside Lairg, revised & reprinted 1998. Cat no: ISBN 0 9531724 0 6 Try the Lairg Visitor info centre perhaps, we got our copy from a little pub outside Lairg last year. Ann Mackay

Further to my posting yesterday I would like to repost this information. The parentage I showed was wrong. Barbara Murray and John Bannerman were not the parents of Sage. Unfortunately this error was shown on a family tree prepared by a family member of that family - since posting I have been given the correct information from the marriage records in Zorra. Lesson learned - do not even trust families trees! Christine www.highlandhearts.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01

Yesterday's quote on John and Kenneth Mackay from Mem. Dom. illustrated this question on military titles and honorifics. Sage wrote the Kenneth Mackay did not rise higher than lieutenant during his army career, yet refers to him as "captain." Can anyone explain why? Sage also mentioned a Colonel Cluness and a Captain Cluness. Does anyone know whether these are two different men, or simply different honorifics? (I also should mention that Sage was inconsistent in his spelling. Cluness, as an example, was spelled both "Cluness" and "Clunes". His spelling of Gaelic words or place names was even more variable.) Rena

Looking through notes I came upon pages copied from the History of Dornoch Cathedral & Parish, by (poss. Rev Mr Bethune). Tenants on the Skelbo estate in 1718 Pronsie - James Sutherland -900 merks Scots Evelicks - James Sutherland -720 do Rearquhar - John Sutherland - 450 do Breagrudie - Alexander Sutherland - L425 16s 8d Scots meikle Torboll - Hugh Sutherland - 300 merks Scots Coul - William Sutherland , Donald Murray, and John McIntosh -4bolls bear and 9/- Stg. Easter Skelbo - George Murray - 4 bolls bear and 3 merks Scots Cambusavie - David Sutherland Knockglass - John Munro, Wm. mackay, John Macintosh, Alex. Mathewson Achandrew - John Mcalea, Donald McKay, Thomas Matthewson, Alex. Mcalea, James mackay, John mackay. Balvraid - John and Donald mackay, John Harp, John Sutherland. William Macintosh , officer of Skelbo depones he has a possession of the lands of Skelbo of yearly value of Two Bolls bear allowed him for his service as Officer to the Barony of Skelbo, and that there is waste in the barony of Skelbo beside a halfpenny land to the value of Two Bolls and Six Shillings Sterling, Threepenny lands with 12 bolls bear and 27 merks Scots yearly. Thought this would add to the information we are all slowly gathering. Ann Mackay

Hello list Forwarding this letter which I have today sent to Dr Lindsay. Will post his response in due course. Christine -----Original Message----- From: Christine Stokes [mailto:chris@northants26.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 7:32 AM To: nick.lindsay@highland.gov.uk Subject: FW: Clyne (Old) Cemetery Dear Dr Lindsay As list manager of the County of Sutherland Rootsweb Mailing List it has been suggested by our members that I contact you regarding the work you are currently doing on the old Clyne Cemetery. Our list has nearly two hundred members from all around the world who keep in touch by email. Many of our members could give you the information which will add flesh to your bones. However, during recent years much has been made of people taking hard earned research and then 'selling it'! Causes a few problems that does. I have received many emails about your work and basically if you can assure us that this is a genuine heritage gathering of information you will receive help. I understand you will publish the work when completed. Presumably this will then be sold at an affordable price? Would you be willing to acknowledge help given? With positive answers to these questions I will be happy to post your response to the list and you should receive your information. If you would like to take a look at the archives for our mailing list you can find them on at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ If you wish to join the list there is a link on my own web site. Look forward to hearing from you. Christine Stokes www.highlandhearts.com -----Original Message----- From: Ian Morrison [mailto:ianmorrison@msn.com] Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 5:28 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Clyne (Old) Cemetery Dear Christine, What follows may be somewhat outside the objects of the list. If it is, please forgive me. I have noticed several subscribers are researching ancestors in the Clyne area and wondered whether some might be interested in responding to an appeal for help that appeared in the latest issue of the Highland Family History Society's Journal. The appeal was from Dr. Nick Lindsay, the Secretary of the Clyne Heritage Society, who has compiled a record of the burials and wishes to add some character to the individual records. With his permission, I quote from his appeal: "I have done a complete transcription of Clyne (Old) Cemetery, substantially revising and improving (he types modestly) the previous published records in Cowper's Pre-1855 Sutherland Monuments edition. I am interested in following this up by appealing for any information that members hold about any of the people buried in the graveyard so that I can add, excuse the expression, flesh to the bones! So rather than just publishing a list of names, places and dates, I would like to be able to add some stories and some history. So if any members have information that they feel might be relevant, please contact me by letter at "Sunnybrae", West Clyne, Brora, Sutherland Kw9 6NH, or by email at nick.lindsay@highland.gov.uk " Dr Lindsay hopes to publish his project when it is complete. In the meantime, the information is in a data base and he would be pleased to respond to any enquiries from researchers who think their ancestors might be buried in Clyne. I do not have the pleasure of knowing Dr. Lindsay, but I do not believe this project is commercially motivated. Ian <br clear=all><hr>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</a>.<br></p> ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01

Dear Ian Your message is not outside of the objects of the list. We are interested in everything that relates. I did read this in my copy of the last journal and did wonder about it. Many of our list members have information which could help Dr Lindsay but I feel they need a bit more information about what he is doing with it. As was said to me by a private message "If it is just for the Heritage Centre that would be great". I am now going to write to Dr Lindsay and find out more about his plans. I will then publish his response on the list. Christine -----Original Message----- From: Ian Morrison [mailto:ianmorrison@msn.com] Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 5:28 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Clyne (Old) Cemetery Dear Christine, What follows may be somewhat outside the objects of the list. If it is, please forgive me. I have noticed several subscribers are researching ancestors in the Clyne area and wondered whether some might be interested in responding to an appeal for help that appeared in the latest issue of the Highland Family History Society's Journal. The appeal was from Dr. Nick Lindsay, the Secretary of the Clyne Heritage Society, who has compiled a record of the burials and wishes to add some character to the individual records. With his permission, I quote from his appeal: "I have done a complete transcription of Clyne (Old) Cemetery, substantially revising and improving (he types modestly) the previous published records in Cowper's Pre-1855 Sutherland Monuments edition. I am interested in following this up by appealing for any information that members hold about any of the people buried in the graveyard so that I can add, excuse the expression, flesh to the bones! So rather than just publishing a list of names, places and dates, I would like to be able to add some stories and some history. So if any members have information that they feel might be relevant, please contact me by letter at "Sunnybrae", West Clyne, Brora, Sutherland Kw9 6NH, or by email at nick.lindsay@highland.gov.uk " Dr Lindsay hopes to publish his project when it is complete. In the meantime, the information is in a data base and he would be pleased to respond to any enquiries from researchers who think their ancestors might be buried in Clyne. I do not have the pleasure of knowing Dr. Lindsay, but I do not believe this project is commercially motivated. Ian <br clear=all><hr>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</a>.<br></p> ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01

Hello Mary The names you give are not common to Sutherland so I took a look at the IGI. The only child born to Duncan McFarlane and Marrion Beaton in Scotland appears to be Angus, born or baptised 21 Feb 1808 at Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon, Argyll. Did they perhaps spend some time in Sutherland? Christine -----Original Message----- From: Mary Lee [mailto:leekid@btinternet.com] Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 4:47 PM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Duncan Mc Farlane. Marrion Beaton ? Hi list . Anyone links to above couple please. Mary ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01

This is wonderful. Proof of Murrays as early as 1718. Did you read this book while you were in Dornoch? Is it in the library? Christine -----Original Message----- From: Mhairi Mackay [mailto:mhairi@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 12:52 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Skelbo tenants Looking through notes I came upon pages copied from the History of Dornoch Cathedral & Parish, by (poss. Rev Mr Bethune). Tenants on the Skelbo estate in 1718 Pronsie - James Sutherland -900 merks Scots Evelicks - James Sutherland -720 do Rearquhar - John Sutherland - 450 do Breagrudie - Alexander Sutherland - L425 16s 8d Scots meikle Torboll - Hugh Sutherland - 300 merks Scots Coul - William Sutherland , Donald Murray, and John McIntosh -4bolls bear and 9/- Stg. Easter Skelbo - George Murray - 4 bolls bear and 3 merks Scots Cambusavie - David Sutherland Knockglass - John Munro, Wm. mackay, John Macintosh, Alex. Mathewson Achandrew - John Mcalea, Donald McKay, Thomas Matthewson, Alex. Mcalea, James mackay, John mackay. Balvraid - John and Donald mackay, John Harp, John Sutherland. William Macintosh , officer of Skelbo depones he has a possession of the lands of Skelbo of yearly value of Two Bolls bear allowed him for his service as Officer to the Barony of Skelbo, and that there is waste in the barony of Skelbo beside a halfpenny land to the value of Two Bolls and Six Shillings Sterling, Threepenny lands with 12 bolls bear and 27 merks Scots yearly. Thought this would add to the information we are all slowly gathering. Ann Mackay ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.248 / Virus Database: 121 - Release Date: 4/11/01

Dear Cathy, I undertsand that "Sackville" and "Granville" were both family names of Lewison-Gower, the husband of Elizabeth, the Countess of Sutherland. Lewison-Gower later became the first Duke of Sutherland. These names keep popping up in my family as well, at keast up until 1839. Geoff Anderson. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron and Cathy Wagner <rwagner@xcelco.on.ca> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, 14 April 2001 12:37 Subject: Sackville > Hi There > > This is very interesting reading these names on these lists...would anyone know where this name "SACKVILLE" originates from?? I have some very early people that actually came out of Ireland...but may have been planted there some years before?? and there are oodles of them with this as a middle name.....SACKVILLE > I noticed it used as a first name here > SUTHERLAND, SACKVILLE, Captain, of Uppat > > It is not something that I would say would be a normal name.....smile....so I have to wonder where it came from to begin with > > Cathy > > ______________________________

While trying to find Memorabilia Domestica via web bookshops, I kept coming across books by a Donald Sage MacKay, published circa 1908 and, often, about sermons. I wonder if this author is related to Donald Sage! Lyndall