Carolyn Hope you don't mind if I answer via the list, where there are people more familiar with Sutherland birth records. The obvious explanation to me is that there were a lot of John Munros living in the area, and that they (or their fathers) would be known by their occupation (or their appearance or their parentage or their farm name) in order to distinguish one from the other. This is still the custom here in Wales, in the rural parts, where almost everyone in an area may have the surname Jones and many may have the first name Dai. 'Breabadair' really means 'kicker' and refers to the use of the foot loom with treadles. (In Lewis, at least, it's also the name of the spider, the full name being 'breabadair-ladhrach', or 'pronged / clawed weaver' --- or you could picture a spider wearing football boots?) (Sorry, Christine --- I'm at it again!) Sara ----- Original Message ----- From: <CP8354849@aol.com> To: <sethomas@btinternet.com> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 5:04 AM Subject: Re: MACKENZIE/SUTHERLAND/MUNRO/MURRAY > Hi Sara, > Thanks for the information. Do you have any ideas as to why they would list > it on his birth record? It was taken from the GRO and read John Munro or > Brebedar, I am sure the spelling you gave must be correct. > Carolyn >

To Carolyn Subject: RE: MACKENZIE/SUTHERLAND/MUNRO/MURRAY Hi, Just posting some new names to help in my research JOHN MACKENZIE AND MARGARET SUTHERLAND had the following children born in Dornoch; JEAN born 8 Nov 1789, MARGARET born 24 August 1794 and WILLIAM born 16 June 1802. I am trying to prove that MARGARET MACKENZIE is the wife of JAMES REID, I believe that James and Margaret's children were all born in Rogart and they came to Oxford Co. Ontario in the 1850s to 60's. *********************************************************************** SOURCE: County Marriage Registers of Ontario, Canada 1858-1869, Volume 26 Oxford County, Elizabeth Hancocks, 1990, Generation Press, Agincourt. ISBN 0-920830-51-X. Index. The full registrations can be found on Family History Library -LDS microfilm number 1030062 or Archives of Ontario through interlibrary loan at your local library, usually free: County Marriage Registers (RG 80-27-2)MS 248, Reel 12 Page 113. Reid Alexander, age 33, of E. Zorra, born Scotland, s/o James & Margaret (McKenzie), married 19 Nov 1863 Hannah Patterson, 18, of W Zorra, born US, d/o James & Jane. Reid Angus, age 37, of Zorra, born Scotland, s/o James & Margaret (McKenzie), married 20 Dec 1860 Caroline Storry, 18, of Zorra, born Canada, d/o William & Mary (Loens) ************************************************************************ "County of Oxford Gazetteer and Directory for 1862-3, Published by James Sutherland, Ingersoll, C. W. 1862 . Can be found at Bill Martin's page http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~wjmartin/oxford.htm There is a James Reid at Lot 31, Concession 3, under West Zorra National Archives of Canada, 1871 census index has many Reids for Oxford. http://www.archives.ca/02/02010802_e.html. Hope the above proves to be of some help. Our Family History Centre is closed until September so do not have access to the Marriage Microfilm of 1030062. This may give the minister, and the witnesses. Regards, Marg. Bob & Marg. Hutton 2104 Cypress Road Comox, BC. V9M 3Z5 1-250-339-0429

Hi 'breabadair' means 'weaver' in Gaelic --- pronounced as you've written it, more or less. Sara ----- Original Message ----- From: <CP8354849@aol.com> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 8:12 PM Subject: RE: MACKENZIE/SUTHERLAND/MUNRO/MURRAY > Hi, > Just posting some new names to help in my research > JOHN MACKENZIE AND MARGARET SUTHERLAND had the following children born in > Dornoch; JEAN born 8 Nov 1789, MARGARET born 24 August 1794 and WILLIAM born > 16 June 1802. I am trying to prove that MARGARET MACKENZIE is the wife of > JAMES REID, I believe that James and Margaret's children were all born in > Rogart and they came to Oxford Co. Ontario in the 1850s to 60's. > > DUNCAN MUNRO born Kiltearn, Ross/Cromarty to John Munro and Christina Ross > married in Dornoch to Christian or Christine Murray. John Munro is listed on > the GRO as John Munro or Brebedar> Do any of you happen to know what Brebedar > means? > Thanks, > Carolyn > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com > > >

Hi, Just posting some new names to help in my research JOHN MACKENZIE AND MARGARET SUTHERLAND had the following children born in Dornoch; JEAN born 8 Nov 1789, MARGARET born 24 August 1794 and WILLIAM born 16 June 1802. I am trying to prove that MARGARET MACKENZIE is the wife of JAMES REID, I believe that James and Margaret's children were all born in Rogart and they came to Oxford Co. Ontario in the 1850s to 60's. DUNCAN MUNRO born Kiltearn, Ross/Cromarty to John Munro and Christina Ross married in Dornoch to Christian or Christine Murray. John Munro is listed on the GRO as John Munro or Brebedar> Do any of you happen to know what Brebedar means? Thanks, Carolyn

Hi Dario You will not be the only one who had problems in the early days. To answer to the list - so that everyone can read your answer - click on REPLY TO ALL. Then delete the first name and leave the SCT-SUTHERLAND part. It is very simple to do and you will soon get used to it. On your hotmail account you should consider telling it to accept all mail and then ignore the spam. This is the main reason that I do not like hotmail. I seem to remember you live in England? If so why not get yourself a Freeserve address or a Lineone address. They are both free and your mail will come directly into your computer rather than you having to go fetch it from hotmail's site. If you need any further help please do not hesitate to ask. Christine Highland Hearts http://www.highlandhearts.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Dario Leslie [mailto:darioleslie@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 8:02 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Thanks and apologies Thanks to every one who replied to my first post on the LESLIEs of Backies. Apologies for my lack of response so far, but I'm having a few technical problems: First: my hotmail account was shunting most of the mail to my bulkmail folder (for spam) so I didn't see most of it until today. Secondly: I haven't yet worked out how to post a reply as a response to a thread rather than directly to the sender. Excuse my ignorance and please advise me! Once I have worked these out then I will try to respond to the relevant messages. Dario Leslie Wiltshire, England _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate your heritage! http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.255 / Virus Database: 128 - Release Date: 5/17/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.255 / Virus Database: 128 - Release Date: 5/17/01

Thanks to every one who replied to my first post on the LESLIEs of Backies. Apologies for my lack of response so far, but I'm having a few technical problems: First: my hotmail account was shunting most of the mail to my bulkmail folder (for spam) so I didn't see most of it until today. Secondly: I haven't yet worked out how to post a reply as a response to a thread rather than directly to the sender. Excuse my ignorance and please advise me! Once I have worked these out then I will try to respond to the relevant messages. Dario Leslie Wiltshire, England _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

My Murray ancestors lived in Rhemusaig which is part of Dornoch parish but geographically is in Rogart. I have been told that Rhemusaig (pronounced Remoosig) means Valley of Primrose. Can anyone verify this for me? Would be most grateful. Thanks Christine Highland Hearts http://www.highlandhearts.com/ <http://www.highlandhearts.com/> --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.255 / Virus Database: 128 - Release Date: 5/17/01

Here is some information which may interest the list - Robertson's Landmarks of Toronto, Volume 6, Chapter XXVII The Selkirk Settlement, pp121-26 Life of John Mackay, the last of the Band of Scottish Adventurers who went to the West in 1815 Dates in the Life of John McKay: 1814 born January 1814, son of Donald Mackay and Catherine Bruce, Kildonan, Scotland 1815 June 1815, ship "Hadlow" sailed from the port of Cromarty, Scotland, for Hudson's Bay. The passenger list of the Hadlow reads like the muster roll of one of the great Highland regiments of former days. There were the Mathesons, the Bannermans, the Mackays, the Murrays, Rosses, Sutherlands, MacBeths, Bruces, Polsons, Gunns, MacLeans, Farquharsons, Livingstons, Fletts, Frasers, and Macphersons. The "Hadlow" landed on the shores of Hudson's Bay in August 1815. 1819 John Mackay and one Sutherland, younger than himself, were entrusted to the care of Alexander Bannerman, a lad of fifteen, who took them for toboggan rides. 1820 His father, Donald Mackay, took him to the grave of his grandfather who was buried with nine of the men who had been killed in 1816 at the Battle of Seven Oaks. In the spring of 1820, a party of Selkirk settlers determined to abandon the settlement, and set out for what was then known as Canada. The party consisted of about 30 white people including Donald Mackay and his family (John Mackay was then six years old). He remembers the following names of members of that party: his grandmother, Elizabeth Matheson Mackay; his uncles Roderick and Robert Mackay; James Sutherland, his wife, their son James, and daughter Elizabeth; John Bannerman, his wife, and two sons, Alexander and John; Alexander Mackay, Adam Mackay, and their mother, a widow; George Ross, his wife, their son Benjamin; Alexander Murray and his son Alexander Murray. James Sutherland, one of the church leaders in Kildonan, Scotland, acted as their spiritual guide. The party followed the regular fur trading route along the waters that reached the Lake of the Woods, and continued to Fort William and open water. From there, they followed the north shore of Lake Superior to Sault Ste Marie. At the French River, the party separated from their guides and proceeded to Penetanguishene [on Georgian Bay]. By means of portages, they crossed over to Lake Simcoe and reached the Holland River at the south end of the lake, and Holland Landing. They proceeded to Newmarket where the family of Donald Mackay remained for two years before taking up land in Township of West Gwillimbury, Simcoe County. 1826 John Mackay and his friend, Sutherland, travelled 12 miles to Newmarket to see a circus. 1827 Highlanders from West Gwillimbury, led by Macbeth, travelled to Newmarket to cast their votes in the election (Cawthra vs Robinson). 1829 John Mackay and his friend, Sutherland, visited York (Toronto), and again in 1834, to sell grain. 1836 John Mackay, aged 22 yrs, married Christina Sutherland, a child of the Kildonan settlement. They made their home in West Gwillimbury until 1870 when they moved to Toronto and lived at 702 Ontario Street. John Mackay died on 2nd December 1908.

Hello List, just trying again to locate siblings/parents of William Mackay born circa 1785-1795. Anyone have a missing "William" in their tree from around that time? Have no clue as to his parents, where he was born, but do know that he was a Tinsmith (Plumber & Ironmonger I believe) who went to Lerwick, Shetland, married May Peterson in 1822 and they had 3 children who all came to Australia in 1846. Possibles: Wm born to a George Mackay/McKay and Katharine McKenzie or suspect parents might have been a David McKay/Ann (poss Grant). Am desperate enough to believe anything at this stage. PS - If any ex-pat Scot hasn't had a look at Christine's photos yet - do it, they are brilliant. Christine's kindness in thinking of us in the antipodes is wonderful. John McKay PO Box 16 Cavendish 3314 Australia mckayej@swtafe.vic.edu.au (BH]

No problem Lizzie. We all type wrong things at times. Have done it myself. I am glad though that she turned out to be a Macdonald - there is a gravestone in Rogart that has puzzled me for years and you just solved that puzzle! It reads: B. GORDON: A. MD. [1788-1840] It is now clear that this is Barbara Gordon married to Alexander Macdonald. Their daughter Christian was born in Golspie on 17 May 1826 according to Scottish Church Records. Now just have to figure out why Barbara is buried in Rogart! Thanks Christine Highland Hearts http://www.highlandhearts.com/ -----Original Message----- From: lizzi bell [mailto:lizzibell@bigpond.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 10:34 PM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: ANYONE OWN THESE PEOPLE? A dreadful mistake- Christina MACDONALD's father was Alexander MACDONALD. I am sorry to have mislead anyone and will be much much more careful in future. Lizzi ----- Original Message ----- From: Christine Stokes <chris@northants26.freeserve.co.uk> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 3:17 PM Subject: RE: ANYONE OWN THESE PEOPLE? > Hi Lizzi > In last reference you give - is it correct? Christina Macdonald's father > was a Mackay? > I wonder if she was a widow? Any clue on the certificate. > Interested because I have no record of an Alexander Mackay with a Barbara > Gordon. > > Christine > Highland Hearts > http://www.highlandhearts.com/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: lizzi bell [mailto:lizzibell@bigpond.com.au] > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:27 AM > To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: ANYONE OWN THESE PEOPLE? > > I have a few certificates that I don't think relate to my families. > > Death cert for a James MUNRO, 1863 Golspie aged 23yrs, a Writer's Clerk. > s/o Murdoch MUNRO, shoemaker & Helen MACGREGOR. > > Death cert.- Jane FRASER, 1908 aged 80 at The Mound, widow of Simon , sub > Postmaster. d/o Alexander SUTHERLAND dec. Army Pensioner, & Janet LESLIE > dec. > > Marriage cert. James MUNRO aged 50, bachelor -Cartwright, & Christina > MACDONALD aged 30 at Golspie 28-12-1860. > James was s/o Donald MUNRO, farmer dec. & Catherine MACKAY dec. > Christina was d/o Alexander MACKAY dec.& Barbara Gordon dec. > > Lizzi > > > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You > can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.255 / Virus Database: 128 - Release Date: 5/17/01 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.255 / Virus Database: 128 - Release Date: 5/17/01 > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history learning and how-to articles on the Internet. http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.255 / Virus Database: 128 - Release Date: 5/17/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.255 / Virus Database: 128 - Release Date: 5/17/01

A dreadful mistake- Christina MACDONALD's father was Alexander MACDONALD. I am sorry to have mislead anyone and will be much much more careful in future. Lizzi ----- Original Message ----- From: Christine Stokes <chris@northants26.freeserve.co.uk> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 3:17 PM Subject: RE: ANYONE OWN THESE PEOPLE? > Hi Lizzi > In last reference you give - is it correct? Christina Macdonald's father > was a Mackay? > I wonder if she was a widow? Any clue on the certificate. > Interested because I have no record of an Alexander Mackay with a Barbara > Gordon. > > Christine > Highland Hearts > http://www.highlandhearts.com/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: lizzi bell [mailto:lizzibell@bigpond.com.au] > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:27 AM > To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: ANYONE OWN THESE PEOPLE? > > I have a few certificates that I don't think relate to my families. > > Death cert for a James MUNRO, 1863 Golspie aged 23yrs, a Writer's Clerk. > s/o Murdoch MUNRO, shoemaker & Helen MACGREGOR. > > Death cert.- Jane FRASER, 1908 aged 80 at The Mound, widow of Simon , sub > Postmaster. d/o Alexander SUTHERLAND dec. Army Pensioner, & Janet LESLIE > dec. > > Marriage cert. James MUNRO aged 50, bachelor -Cartwright, & Christina > MACDONALD aged 30 at Golspie 28-12-1860. > James was s/o Donald MUNRO, farmer dec. & Catherine MACKAY dec. > Christina was d/o Alexander MACKAY dec.& Barbara Gordon dec. > > Lizzi > > > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You > can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.255 / Virus Database: 128 - Release Date: 5/17/01 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.255 / Virus Database: 128 - Release Date: 5/17/01 > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library > >

Relieved to hear it Malcolm but would be fun to find a murder! Christine Highland Hearts http://www.highlandhearts.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Malcolm.Bangor-Jones@scotland.gsi.gov.uk [mailto:Malcolm.Bangor-Jones@scotland.gsi.gov.uk] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 8:56 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: Benjamin Leslie, Rhidorrach. **************************************************************************** * This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. **************************************************************************** * Having thought about it, I find nothing unusual in Benjamin Leslie's death. He may have had a heart attack but on balance I would put his death down to exposure. Accidental deaths in the hills were by no means unusual - people poorly clothed for bad weather, using routes without ready shelter, perhaps not too well nourished and using alcohol to 'sustain' themselves (NB I am not implying that the latter is relevant in this case). He was not a factor, rather a household servant. If there was the slightest hint of foul play there would have been an investigation. Murders were properly investigated. Malcolm Bangor-Jones -----Original Message----- From: Isabella McGregor [mailto:isabella@mcgregori.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: 02 June 2001 19:53 To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Benjamin Leslie, Rhidorrach. ******************************************************************* This email has been received from an external party and has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ******************************************************************* Hi Dario, That was very interesting about Benjamin Leslie's death. I had presumed he died from exposure, but did think it was strange that there was no mention of severe weather in the report, althought it was the end of Jan. Here is the report from The Inverness Advertiser Tues. 1st Feb. 1870. Ullapool, Jan. 28th. A very melancholy death occured in the neighbourhood this week. Benjamin Leslie, a servant in the employment of his Grace the Duke of Sutherland at Rhidorrach, left home on Tuesday morning with his sister-in-law for Oikel to overtake the mail gig, intending to return the same evening. As he did not return as expected, his wife naturally got alarmed, and early on Wednesday sent a messenger off to Oikel. The messenger returned in the evening with the information that Leslie had called at a shepherd's house the previous evening, and after partaking of some refreshments left for home. Accordingly the neighbours commenced a search at moonrise, which they continued till daybreak on Thursday, when his dead body was found about a mile and a half from his own house. Deceased was a quiet, inoffensive man, and much respected by all who knew him. He was about thirty-seven years of age.Much sympathy is felt for the bereaved widow, who is left with the charge of a young family. Here is some info. on Benjamin's children, and where I fit into it. My G G G Grandparents Andrew Murray b.c. 1770 / Christy Bruce b.c. 1770 Their son James Murray (my G G Grandfather) b.c. 1797 married Ann Gunn b. 11-8-1798 Their daughter Louisa Murray b. 28-10-1836 m. Benjamin Leslie b. 8-11-1832 Their children:- (1) Christina b. 26-8-1862 died 7-10-1895 married William Murray b. 22-2-1859died 12-12-1944 He was the son of John Murray/Helen Gordon Christina and William married in Clyne 5-12-1890 Their children:- Hellen b. 28-11-1892 in Inverness Andrew b. 9-7-1894 in Dornoch After Christina's death William married 22-12-1899 Margaret Ross in Tain. (2) Andrew b. 5-5-1864 died 20-2-1892(single) at 13 Brunsfield Place, Edinburgh. (3) George b. 24-2-1867 married 3-1-1890 in Dundee, Margaret Wilson daughter of James Wilson and Margaret Nicolson. Their ch. Louisa b. 9-4-1890 in Golspie She is the only one I have found so far. (4) Benjamin b. 2-3-1870 died 26-12-1927 married 27-9-1899 Margaret Lyall Murray b.18-9-1877 died 21-2-1968 daughter of James Murray/Elizabeth Jack Their children:- Christina b. 11-10-1901 died 16-10-1901 Christina b. 22-4-1903 James Murray b. 24-5-1904 Andrew Murray b. 11-9-1906 Elizabeth Jack b. 10-9-1906 Louisa b. 8-7-1910 Edith Lyall b. 27-9-1911 Bertha b 22-11-1913 Margaret Murray b. 23-5-1916 Hope some of this is useful. Louisa's older sister Jane b,1-4-1826 is my line . Isabella. ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.255 / Virus Database: 128 - Release Date: 5/17/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.255 / Virus Database: 128 - Release Date: 5/17/01

Hi Lizzi In last reference you give - is it correct? Christina Macdonald's father was a Mackay? I wonder if she was a widow? Any clue on the certificate. Interested because I have no record of an Alexander Mackay with a Barbara Gordon. Christine Highland Hearts http://www.highlandhearts.com/ -----Original Message----- From: lizzi bell [mailto:lizzibell@bigpond.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:27 AM To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: ANYONE OWN THESE PEOPLE? I have a few certificates that I don't think relate to my families. Death cert for a James MUNRO, 1863 Golspie aged 23yrs, a Writer's Clerk. s/o Murdoch MUNRO, shoemaker & Helen MACGREGOR. Death cert.- Jane FRASER, 1908 aged 80 at The Mound, widow of Simon , sub Postmaster. d/o Alexander SUTHERLAND dec. Army Pensioner, & Janet LESLIE dec. Marriage cert. James MUNRO aged 50, bachelor -Cartwright, & Christina MACDONALD aged 30 at Golspie 28-12-1860. James was s/o Donald MUNRO, farmer dec. & Catherine MACKAY dec. Christina was d/o Alexander MACKAY dec.& Barbara Gordon dec. Lizzi ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history learning and how-to articles on the Internet. http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.255 / Virus Database: 128 - Release Date: 5/17/01 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.255 / Virus Database: 128 - Release Date: 5/17/01

Hi When I returned from my last trip to Sutherland a few of you said that you would like to see my photographs. I have now loaded some on to the web site at http://www.highlandhearts.com/chris/photos.html Mostly taken in Strathfleet (my favourite place) – takes a little while to load as it is all photographs and there are some notes at the bottom of the page. Enjoy Christine Highland Hearts http://www.highlandhearts.com/ <http://www.highlandhearts.com/> --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.255 / Virus Database: 128 - Release Date: 5/17/01

On the birth ceificates of his three oldest children born at Ridorrach his occupation is given as gardener. Isabella

This is very interesting. Benjamin Leslie appears in my family tree due to his sister Christina marrying into a Murray branch. Gaining something here regularly. Spent 3 great days in Clyne. Weather was typical "Sutherland" Grant

I have a few certificates that I don't think relate to my families. Death cert for a James MUNRO, 1863 Golspie aged 23yrs, a Writer's Clerk. s/o Murdoch MUNRO, shoemaker & Helen MACGREGOR. Death cert.- Jane FRASER, 1908 aged 80 at The Mound, widow of Simon , sub Postmaster. d/o Alexander SUTHERLAND dec. Army Pensioner, & Janet LESLIE dec. Marriage cert. James MUNRO aged 50, bachelor -Cartwright, & Christina MACDONALD aged 30 at Golspie 28-12-1860. James was s/o Donald MUNRO, farmer dec. & Catherine MACKAY dec. Christina was d/o Alexander MACKAY dec.& Barbara Gordon dec. Lizzi

Hello All I am researching a BORTHWICK family from Caithness. I have found two of the daughters in the following 1881 census record. The elder sister Jesse married into the MUNRO family. I would be interested in hearing from anyone researching this MUNRO family. CENSUS: 1881 Dwelling: Kirkton Census Place: Assynt, Sutherland, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203404 GRO Ref Volume 044-1 EnumDist 3 Page 2 Marr Age Sex Birthplace John MUNRO M 33 M Eddrachillis, Sutherland, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Gamekeeper Jessie MUNRO M 32 F Ouldibea, Caithness, Scotland Rel: Wife Mary Ann MUNRO 7 F Assynt, Sutherland, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar Sarah MUNRO 5 F Assynt, Sutherland, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar Catherine MUNRO 4 F Assynt, Sutherland, Scotland Rel: Daur David MUNRO 2 M Assynt, Sutherland, Scotland Rel: Son John MUNRO M 69 M Dingwall, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland Rel: Father Occ: Retired Grieve Anne MUNRO M 70 F Kincardine, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland Rel: Mother Betsy BORTHWICK U 17 F Ouldibea, Caithness, Scotland Rel: Sister In Law Occ: Gen Serv Regards Maurice Keith French Huntly New Zealand maurice.french@xtra.co.nz

***************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. ***************************************************************************** Having thought about it, I find nothing unusual in Benjamin Leslie's death. He may have had a heart attack but on balance I would put his death down to exposure. Accidental deaths in the hills were by no means unusual - people poorly clothed for bad weather, using routes without ready shelter, perhaps not too well nourished and using alcohol to 'sustain' themselves (NB I am not implying that the latter is relevant in this case). He was not a factor, rather a household servant. If there was the slightest hint of foul play there would have been an investigation. Murders were properly investigated. Malcolm Bangor-Jones -----Original Message----- From: Isabella McGregor [mailto:isabella@mcgregori.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: 02 June 2001 19:53 To: SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Benjamin Leslie, Rhidorrach. ******************************************************************* This email has been received from an external party and has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ******************************************************************* Hi Dario, That was very interesting about Benjamin Leslie's death. I had presumed he died from exposure, but did think it was strange that there was no mention of severe weather in the report, althought it was the end of Jan. Here is the report from The Inverness Advertiser Tues. 1st Feb. 1870. Ullapool, Jan. 28th. A very melancholy death occured in the neighbourhood this week. Benjamin Leslie, a servant in the employment of his Grace the Duke of Sutherland at Rhidorrach, left home on Tuesday morning with his sister-in-law for Oikel to overtake the mail gig, intending to return the same evening. As he did not return as expected, his wife naturally got alarmed, and early on Wednesday sent a messenger off to Oikel. The messenger returned in the evening with the information that Leslie had called at a shepherd's house the previous evening, and after partaking of some refreshments left for home. Accordingly the neighbours commenced a search at moonrise, which they continued till daybreak on Thursday, when his dead body was found about a mile and a half from his own house. Deceased was a quiet, inoffensive man, and much respected by all who knew him. He was about thirty-seven years of age.Much sympathy is felt for the bereaved widow, who is left with the charge of a young family. Here is some info. on Benjamin's children, and where I fit into it. My G G G Grandparents Andrew Murray b.c. 1770 / Christy Bruce b.c. 1770 Their son James Murray (my G G Grandfather) b.c. 1797 married Ann Gunn b. 11-8-1798 Their daughter Louisa Murray b. 28-10-1836 m. Benjamin Leslie b. 8-11-1832 Their children:- (1) Christina b. 26-8-1862 died 7-10-1895 married William Murray b. 22-2-1859died 12-12-1944 He was the son of John Murray/Helen Gordon Christina and William married in Clyne 5-12-1890 Their children:- Hellen b. 28-11-1892 in Inverness Andrew b. 9-7-1894 in Dornoch After Christina's death William married 22-12-1899 Margaret Ross in Tain. (2) Andrew b. 5-5-1864 died 20-2-1892(single) at 13 Brunsfield Place, Edinburgh. (3) George b. 24-2-1867 married 3-1-1890 in Dundee, Margaret Wilson daughter of James Wilson and Margaret Nicolson. Their ch. Louisa b. 9-4-1890 in Golspie She is the only one I have found so far. (4) Benjamin b. 2-3-1870 died 26-12-1927 married 27-9-1899 Margaret Lyall Murray b.18-9-1877 died 21-2-1968 daughter of James Murray/Elizabeth Jack Their children:- Christina b. 11-10-1901 died 16-10-1901 Christina b. 22-4-1903 James Murray b. 24-5-1904 Andrew Murray b. 11-9-1906 Elizabeth Jack b. 10-9-1906 Louisa b. 8-7-1910 Edith Lyall b. 27-9-1911 Bertha b 22-11-1913 Margaret Murray b. 23-5-1916 Hope some of this is useful. Louisa's older sister Jane b,1-4-1826 is my line . Isabella. ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB

I would dearly love to claim this James as my elusive family member but, alas, the James MUNRO I seek was born in 1825. Lizzi ----- Original Message ----- From: Lyndall <lyfrah@goldweb.com.au> To: <SCT-SUTHERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 10:28 PM Subject: Fw: [A.G.R. ] Fw: James Munro Premier Vic > The following was posted to an Australian list and might well be of interest > to someone here: > > | from Grolier Encyclopaedia under heading MUNRO > | > | James (1832-1908) Premier of Victoria, was born in a village in > | Sutherlandshire, Scotland on 7.1.1832. At the age of 16 he obtained > | employment as a printer and he followed the same trade after > | emigrating to Melbourne in 1858. Seven years later he founded the > | Victorian Permanent Building Society of which he was manager for 17 > | years. > | In 1874 he was elected to represent North Melbourne in the Leg. > | Assembly, and in the next year briefly held the office as Minister of > | Public Instruction. Subsequently he founded two banks and in the boom > | year of 1888 he was reputed to have been a millionaire. In 1890 he > | visited England and raised a large amount of capital for is various > | companies. On the strength of his reputation as a financier he ousted > | the GILLES Gov. and in November 1890 he became Premier and Treasurer. > | Two years later he resigned to become Agent-General for Victoria in > | London. As a result of the banking crisis he was recalled in 1893, > | and replaced by GILLES. Of his varied foundations, only the Victorian > | Permanent Building Society survived the crises. He found himself > | financially ruined and retired from public life. > | Munro rep. Victoria at the Federal Convention of 1891, but otherwise > | did not take a leading part in the Federation campaign. He always > | showed interest in the temperance movement and was a force in the > | Caledonian Society of Melbourne, of which he was president in 1884 and > | 1886-7. He died on 25th Feb. 1908. He married in 1853 Jane > | Macdonald, and had a family of four sons and three daughters. > | > | VICTORIAN MINISTRIES > | No. 24 - J. MUNRO 5th Nov. 1890 to 16th Feb 1892. > | > > and from another posting on the same subject: > > > the Victorian Govt "The Story of the Century 1851-1951" edited by > > E.A. Doyle > > and in appendix II > > > > James Munro 5th Nov 1890 to 16 Feb 1892. > > > > In a chapter on "The rise of labour" page 194, James Munro is mentioned > and > > there is a portrait of him on the same page > > "It is noteworthy that Mr James Munro, leader of the Opposition in the > > Legislative Assembly, early in 1890, and ambitious for office, was > avowedly > > sympathetic to industrial unionism." > > > > > > > > if you can get "Victoria A History" by Don Garden where there are several > > references to Munro, eg > > " Munro was a Scottish-born Presbyterian, a temperance advocate and > > sabbatarian wowser. He was also one of the largest land boomers, numbering > > among his companies the Federal Bank, the Federal Building Society..." > > > > With that description,you will need to look at the daring "Land Boomers" > by > > Michael Cannon, where Munro has many page references. > > > ..................................... > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > You may, at times, wish to check out previous messages to this list. You can do this at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB >