Dear listers. Interesting discussion on the quaint names for occupations of old. Can anyone tell me what a "Coast Waiter" did. I think I got the "waiter" part correct got the original from a hand written apprenticship document from the early 1800s and the writing is not all that clear. Bruce Lawson. Christchurch New Zealand

I have just received my copy of the Navidale CD by POSH and it is just so great I can't speak! Great photos, even music, a slide show format, lots of info with the accompanying booklet about this burial ground near Helmsdale, and delivered to me in Canada faster than a speeding bullet. Lots of photos of my great-great-grandparents' gravestone, and other family members. This is just so great, I'll have to get all the POSH CDs now, as they are produced. Are we ever lucky to have Christine on our team. Well done POSH! Ron Stouffville, Ontario Canada L4A 4J4 Preserving Our Sutherland Heritage www.sutherlandheritage.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/02

G'day Bruce, Coast Waiters in Australia in the 1850's were customs officials watching for contraband to be brought ashore. Regards to all, Geoff Anderson, Vientiane, Laos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Lawson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 8:48 AM Subject: [SUT] Occupations > Dear listers. > Interesting discussion on the quaint names for occupations of old. Can anyone tell me what a "Coast Waiter" did. I think I got the "waiter" part correct got the original from a hand written apprenticship document from the early 1800s and the writing is not all that clear. > > Bruce Lawson. Christchurch New Zealand >

***************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. ***************************************************************************** Ground officers were essential for efficient work management in areas where there were many small tenants or crofters. They were the eyes and ears of the factor. They took special responsibility for overseeing improvements, ensuring good neighbourhood and the upkeep of estate regulations etc. Some were not particularly popular. In Sutherland there tended to be one for each parish. With the introduction of Crofting legislation in 1886 their role began to diminish. In the 17th and 18th centuries one comes across 'officers'. The word presumably derives from the baron court 'officer'. Estates could use the baron court not only for prosecuting tenants for acts such as the illegal cutting of wood, but also for setting lands and decerning for rents. The officer would be responsible for ensuring that decisions of the court were carried out. Baron courts officially went out of business after the '45 Rebellion but in fact continued for a while thereafter. Malcolm Dundee, Scotland -----Original Message----- From: Denise A. Ferne [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 26 November 2002 22:33 To: [email protected] Subject: [SUT] Interesting Occupations Many thanks to Christine, Fraser, Chuber, and everyone who offered definitions of the occupation of Ground Officer. I am now adding your definitions to my new Dictionary of Occupations (I need something to stop me wondering what could be so embarassing about watching the ground). If anyone has a definition of a Catachist, as noted in the Census for Sutherland, I would be pleased to know. Regards to all Denise, Sutherland, Scotland ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== Please visit our NEW POSH web site at www.sutherlandheritage.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 PLEASE NOTE: THE ABOVE MESSAGE WAS RECEIVED FROM THE INTERNET. On entering the GSI, this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSI) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Cable & Wireless in partnership with MessageLabs. GSI users see http://www.gsi.gov.uk/main/new2002notices.htm for further details. In case of problems, please call your organisational IT helpdesk. ******************************************************************* This email has been received from an external party and has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. *******************************************************************

***************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. ***************************************************************************** Any connection with land waiter - a junior customs and excise official who examined goods? Malcolm Dundee, Scotland -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lawson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 27 November 2002 01:49 To: [email protected] Subject: [SUT] Occupations Dear listers. Interesting discussion on the quaint names for occupations of old. Can anyone tell me what a "Coast Waiter" did. I think I got the "waiter" part correct got the original from a hand written apprenticship document from the early 1800s and the writing is not all that clear. Bruce Lawson. Christchurch New Zealand ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== Our Member's Interest's site http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~suthlist/index.htm ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 PLEASE NOTE: THE ABOVE MESSAGE WAS RECEIVED FROM THE INTERNET. On entering the GSI, this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSI) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Cable & Wireless in partnership with MessageLabs. GSI users see http://www.gsi.gov.uk/main/new2002notices.htm for further details. In case of problems, please call your organisational IT helpdesk. ******************************************************************* This email has been received from an external party and has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. *******************************************************************

***************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. ***************************************************************************** In 18th century catechists were often funded by ecclesiastical charity - there was a great compulsion to dispel 'ignorance' amongst the population at large. The church often measured the need for religious instruction in an area by the number of catechisable persons - taken to be those above the age of 8 or so. Malcolm Dundee, Scotland -----Original Message----- From: Christine Stokes [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 27 November 2002 06:47 To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [SUT] Interesting Occupations This is a quote from a family history: As a catechist, with the minister's approval, he would go about his district asking children questions from the Shorter Catechism, all about God, about Sin, and about the Devil. If the poor children did not know the answers he reported them to their parents, telling them to "see they knew their lessons better next time"! Christine Northamptonshire, England www.highlandhearts.com www.sutherlandheritage.com -----Original Message----- From: Denise A. Ferne [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 26 November 2002 22:33 To: [email protected] Subject: [SUT] Interesting Occupations Many thanks to Christine, Fraser, Chuber, and everyone who offered definitions of the occupation of Ground Officer. I am now adding your definitions to my new Dictionary of Occupations (I need something to stop me wondering what could be so embarassing about watching the ground). If anyone has a definition of a Catachist, as noted in the Census for Sutherland, I would be pleased to know. Regards to all Denise, Sutherland, Scotland ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== Please visit our NEW POSH web site at www.sutherlandheritage.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 13/11/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 13/11/2002 ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== To check out previous messages http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 PLEASE NOTE: THE ABOVE MESSAGE WAS RECEIVED FROM THE INTERNET. On entering the GSI, this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSI) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Cable & Wireless in partnership with MessageLabs. GSI users see http://www.gsi.gov.uk/main/new2002notices.htm for further details. In case of problems, please call your organisational IT helpdesk. ******************************************************************* This email has been received from an external party and has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. *******************************************************************

This is a quote from a family history: As a catechist, with the minister's approval, he would go about his district asking children questions from the Shorter Catechism, all about God, about Sin, and about the Devil. If the poor children did not know the answers he reported them to their parents, telling them to "see they knew their lessons better next time"! Christine Northamptonshire, England www.highlandhearts.com www.sutherlandheritage.com -----Original Message----- From: Denise A. Ferne [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 26 November 2002 22:33 To: [email protected] Subject: [SUT] Interesting Occupations Many thanks to Christine, Fraser, Chuber, and everyone who offered definitions of the occupation of Ground Officer. I am now adding your definitions to my new Dictionary of Occupations (I need something to stop me wondering what could be so embarassing about watching the ground). If anyone has a definition of a Catachist, as noted in the Census for Sutherland, I would be pleased to know. Regards to all Denise, Sutherland, Scotland ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== Please visit our NEW POSH web site at www.sutherlandheritage.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 13/11/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 13/11/2002

Ian, if you read this please contact either myself or Ron Patrick. Having problems with your email address. Thanks. Christine Northamptonshire, England www.highlandhearts.com www.sutherlandheritage.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 13/11/2002

Many thanks to Christine, Fraser, Chuber, and everyone who offered definitions of the occupation of Ground Officer. I am now adding your definitions to my new Dictionary of Occupations (I need something to stop me wondering what could be so embarassing about watching the ground). If anyone has a definition of a Catachist, as noted in the Census for Sutherland, I would be pleased to know. Regards to all Denise, Sutherland, Scotland

It is bad enough when folk callyou Sunderland but Southerland naw Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: Sara Thomas <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [SUT] Interesting Obituary > > To: > Fraser MacKenzie, Sutherland. (Or should it be Southerland?). > > --- only if you're a Norseman! But you sound as if you're half Norman > French, half Gael.... > Sara (Wales) > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > To check out previous messages > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

However it got the name we should all be proud so many Sutherland named people are in the History Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: I McLean <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 6:43 AM Subject: [SUT] Re: Sutherland, NEW SOUTH WALES > History of Sutherland, NSW, Australia and how (we think) it got it's name. > > Donald Sutherland's recollection of his family visit to Sutherland in 1993 > (his Email of 25 Nov) and about the plaque to Forby (Forbie) Sutherland is > quite correct, however local historians can't agree on whether the area was > named after this sailor. > > Captain James Cook entered Botany Bay on the afternoon of April 29, 1770 > and Forby Sutherland died from tuberculosis shortly after and was buried on > May 1, 1770 on the beach at Kurnell, just above highwater mark. > Cook named the southern headland of the Bay "Sutherland Point" after him. > > However in 1828 when Thomas Mitchell, another Scot by the way , was NSW > Surveyor-General he named the area "Parish of Southerland". While that name > appeared on maps until the 1880s, when the Governor's proclamation of the > Parish of Southerland came into law in 1835, the letter "o" was omitted (an > error perhaps?) and it became Sutherland. > > When the colony was originally surveyed areas were divided into the Old > English land measurements of "Hundreds" (I am sure only to confuse family > historians) and the name Southerland can be found in these old records. > > To further complicate things, some years later a local member of Parliament > who was Minister for Works had championed the extension of the railway line > into the area and his name was........ John Sutherland. > According to the Information Bureau, Department of Railways, NSW, a railway > station was named after the Hon.John Sutherland, the man responsible for the > extension of the railway in 1885 and the station still bears his name today. > > So which of these men provided his name to our Shire probably doesn't > matter, I think both deserve the recognition. > > Ian McLean > > > > > > > > > > ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== > To check out previous messages > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/SCT-SUTHERLAND-L/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

To: Fraser MacKenzie, Sutherland. (Or should it be Southerland?). --- only if you're a Norseman! But you sound as if you're half Norman French, half Gael.... Sara (Wales)

Support for this thesis, which also applies to the north coast from Thurso to Durness, is the number of people of Orkney origin who can be found in Censuses in many parts: I know of several in Tongue. Donald Massey ----- Original Message ----- > > A small addition to Fraser's note. North Sutherland Studies, a booklet > published by the Scottish Vernacular Buildings Working Group in 1987, > includes an article on Robert Garden, an Aberdonian Orcadian who established > a string of shops on the north and west coasts of Sutherland in the 1890s, > supplied by a small steamer. This was a natural development from the > floating shops which I also understand took corn to Orkney to be ground. > Garden's baker, Stockan, became a rival, but one can buy Stockan and Garden > oatcakes and biscuits - sadly the Garden is but a trading name and the > family connection is long gone. See www.stockan-and-gardens.co.uk > > I am particularly interested in the second story. I assume it post-dates > the extension of the franchise to crofters in the mid-1880s. Much will > depend on what period we are talking about. > > In the late 19th century, there were two parties in Sutherland: Tories, (to > whom one would add Liberal Unionists), and Home Rule Liberals/Crofter > Radicals. The crofters were well organised and politically motivated. > However, the position could be difficult for "service voters", shepherds, > gamekeepers etc. From newspaper accounts, it appears that both sides > engaged in transporting voters to the polling station. However, the > evidence is thin and hence my interest.

History of Sutherland, NSW, Australia and how (we think) it got it's name. Donald Sutherland's recollection of his family visit to Sutherland in 1993 (his Email of 25 Nov) and about the plaque to Forby (Forbie) Sutherland is quite correct, however local historians can't agree on whether the area was named after this sailor. Captain James Cook entered Botany Bay on the afternoon of April 29, 1770 and Forby Sutherland died from tuberculosis shortly after and was buried on May 1, 1770 on the beach at Kurnell, just above highwater mark. Cook named the southern headland of the Bay "Sutherland Point" after him. However in 1828 when Thomas Mitchell, another Scot by the way , was NSW Surveyor-General he named the area "Parish of Southerland". While that name appeared on maps until the 1880s, when the Governor's proclamation of the Parish of Southerland came into law in 1835, the letter "o" was omitted (an error perhaps?) and it became Sutherland. When the colony was originally surveyed areas were divided into the Old English land measurements of "Hundreds" (I am sure only to confuse family historians) and the name Southerland can be found in these old records. To further complicate things, some years later a local member of Parliament who was Minister for Works had championed the extension of the railway line into the area and his name was........ John Sutherland. According to the Information Bureau, Department of Railways, NSW, a railway station was named after the Hon.John Sutherland, the man responsible for the extension of the railway in 1885 and the station still bears his name today. So which of these men provided his name to our Shire probably doesn't matter, I think both deserve the recognition. Ian McLean

----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:55 AM Subject: [Sut] Highland Hearts Guestbook Christine......... One of my Sutherland ancestors (Helen Sutherland) came from "BalNAvaliach ", (Kildonan.) Very close spelling to "Balvaliach". Same place ? Hope this may help. Cheers, Peter D.McRae ( Te Awamutu, N.Z.) [email protected]

Footnotes to my earlier note, and Malcolm's note: My mother recollects that it was a sailing ship, rather than steamship, and that my g grandfather would row the children out to the boat when it arrived. (Someone has suggested it could have been the SS Clansman, but ...?) At the end of the trip when the trading had finished and they were leaving, my grandmother said the 'captain' called her and her sisters back, and asked them to hold their 'pinnies' out. He then dropped a handful of sweeties in to their laps. My mother added that after the 'laird' had taken the men to vote, this would be at the beginning of the 20thC as my grandmother was born in 1901, the men would be given a dram in thanks for them voting Tory. My grandmother voted Tory all her life, until she died about 15 years ago. I'm not sure why, but my grandmother never really talked too much about her childhood, we believe it was probably because it was such a hard life, and there were few 'innocent childhood memories'. She only brought up the story about the sailing ship, as in the late '70's I spent some time on Flotta in the Orkneys working on an oil terminal, and this sparked her into telling this brief story. It's almost as if she'd put a lot of the memories out of her mind. edward Limpsfield, Surrey

Hi Christine, I live at Caringbah which is a suburb of the Sutherland Shire, there is also a suburb called Sutherland, but in regard to the Celtic Gathering they mean the Shire not the suburb. I am waiting for the list of events from our Council which I can send on to you but my understanding is that it is being held from 7 - 9 March, 2003. The Gathering is at another suburb in the Shire, Menai, whose early settlers were Welsh, so there will be Welsh, Scottish, Irish and Cornish activities. I believe it will be leaning heavily on social activities, music, dancing, games, children's activities, but hope there will an information area as my Clan Maclean is also interested in being involved. I will contact the Council and see if I can display something about POSH , but I don't believe there will be any opportunity to have a manned display. That's the message we got when we made enquiries on behalf of our Clan. I will also put something on the list about the history of Sutherland Shire, although unfortunately about the only thing Scottish is the name. Ian McLean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Stokes" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 7:40 PM Subject: [SUT] NEW SOUTH WALES > Hi > Do we have a member of POSH or at least a friend of POSH who lives in the > area of Sutherland, New South Wales? > Would love to hear from you if so. > Thanks > > Christine > Northamptonshire, England > www.highlandhearts.com > www.sutherlandheritage.com > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 13/11/2002 > > ______________________________

Hi, Denise, The following comes from an estate contact. Way back in the heyday of the sporting estates they employed large numbers of men to maintain roads, ditches, paths, fences and walls. Anything that could be seen by the Owner had to be painted, repaired or manicured--money didn't really matter. The estate Factor decided what work had to be done and the Ground Officer was responsible for ensuring that it was. He was a sort of foreman or overseer, and was often a tradesman. He was also a local man and had to make sure that the work squads ( made up of his friends, neighbours and possibly family ) did the work. He had to tread carefully or he would be accused of being an estate "lackey". This could make him almost an outcast in the community, hence the required delicacy. Regards. Fraser MacKenzie, Sutherland. (Or should it be Southerland?).

***************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. ***************************************************************************** A small addition to Fraser's note. North Sutherland Studies, a booklet published by the Scottish Vernacular Buildings Working Group in 1987, includes an article on Robert Garden, an Aberdonian Orcadian who established a string of shops on the north and west coasts of Sutherland in the 1890s, supplied by a small steamer. This was a natural development from the floating shops which I also understand took corn to Orkney to be ground. Garden's baker, Stockan, became a rival, but one can buy Stockan and Garden oatcakes and biscuits - sadly the Garden is but a trading name and the family connection is long gone. See www.stockan-and-gardens.co.uk I am particularly interested in the second story. I assume it post-dates the extension of the franchise to crofters in the mid-1880s. Much will depend on what period we are talking about. In the late 19th century, there were two parties in Sutherland: Tories, (to whom one would add Liberal Unionists), and Home Rule Liberals/Crofter Radicals. The crofters were well organised and politically motivated. However, the position could be difficult for "service voters", shepherds, gamekeepers etc. From newspaper accounts, it appears that both sides engaged in transporting voters to the polling station. However, the evidence is thin and hence my interest. Malcolm Dundee, Scotland -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 23 November 2002 14:55 To: [email protected] Subject: [SUT] Trading in Assynt Hi, Edward, Nothing wrong with your memory! There is a long tradition of Orkney ships trading up and down the west coast of Scotland. My father often mentioned them coming into Loch Broom. They were called FLOATING shops ( accent on floating ), possibly to distinguish them from shops that didn't!! In some west highland communities there are families with Orkadian names whose forebears arrived in connection with the floating shops. It's never mentioned in the local histories "down here ", but I believe there is quite a lot of info to be found in Orkney. Must dig sometime. Regards, Fraser MacKenzie, Sutherland. I have just remembered two stories my grandmother told me as a child which I thought would be of interest, altho' my memory may not be perfect. When she lived in Achmelvich as a child, their local 'supermaket' was a sailing ship that periodically came round the coast to trade (barter I recollect) with the locals. The ship came from Stromness I believe. She said they would trade eggs, chickens, fish, etc for 'luxuries' like tea. Are there any records of this that anyone might know about? Can anyone confirm how accurate this tale might be? A second story I recall, was how the landowner's cart would come round at election time to take the men away to vote, and how they were told who to vote for. Again, any comments or corrections will be most welcome. Regards edward Limpsfield, Surrey ==== SCT-SUTHERLAND Mailing List ==== Please visit our NEW POSH web site at www.sutherlandheritage.com <http://www.sutherlandheritage.com>

Hello. My name is Scott Lees. I'm hoping that someone might be able to help me with my family tree. I have found myself rather stuck. This is what I know/think; -Family comes from Rogart. -Usually listed as from Aultimoult or Aultivuilt. - not sure what this is - Andrew SUTHERLAND married twice. Wife 1. Lilias Wife 2. Christina MACKAY - My relative John SUTHERLAND came from the first marriage - born 1825. - many brothers and sisters. Some I have are; Marriage 1 John b. 1825 Robert b.1827 Alexander b. 1829 William b. 1831 Marriage 2. Hugh(not positive which marriage) Catherine b.1834 Meeran b. 1836 William b.1838 Charlotte b. 1840 Andrew b. 1842 Any light that anyone might be able to shed on this would be very appreciated. Regards, Scott Lees Australia.