sorry, that should read '1750'. J ---------- >From: "J A Olsen" <Copywriter@tesco.net> >To: SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [SCT-ROX] Re: Fw: ELLIOT >Date: 13, Mon Sep, 2004, 10:57 am > > Hi all > > A quick canter through the IGI shows an Agnes ELLIOT and Robert THOMPSON > 'married' in Jan and Feb 1850, at Bowden and Selkirk. Quite possibly this is > the same couple and one or both of these references are banns. > > These are not rare names but I think it would be worth checking out this > Agnes - perhaps she was Sir Gilbert's sister and daughter of the 2nd Bart > not the 3rd??? > > > Judy > > ---------- >>From: "Jude Elliot" <jude.elliot@xtra.co.nz> >>To: SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com >>Subject: [SCT-ROX] Re: Fw: ELLIOT >>Date: 13, Mon Sep, 2004, 5:55 am >> > >> Darlene >> >> According to "The Elliot - the story of a border clan" Sir Gilbert Elliot of >> Minto, 3rd baronet, married Agnes Dalrymple-Murray-Kynynmound 14 >> Dec 1746 (pp146-148). Named female children of this couple are >> Isabella, died unmarried, Eleanor born 1757 who married William Eden. >> There were also 6 sons. No Agnes marrying a Robert Thompson. The >> book says there were six sons and 2 daughters. >> >> The book is by The Dowager Lady Eliott of Stobs and Sir Arthur Eliott, >> 11th Baronet of Stobs, pub Seeley Service & Co Ltd 1974 ISNB 0 >> 85422081x >> >> On 10 Sep 2004 at 15:59, Darlene Miller wrote: >> >> >>> Hello, >>> I have one connection to make to complete proof of belonging to a certain >>> Elliot family. Is there anyone out there who has a list of the children > of >>> the 3rd Sir Gilbert ELLIOT (1722- 1777) of Minto, Roxburgh, Scotland? I >>> also need the name of his wife. He sat as a member of Parliament for > Selkirk >>> and then Roxburghshire. The list of children is the missing link between >>> several generations in America and Scotland. I am especially interested > in >>> a daughter, Agnes, who may have married a Robert Thompson. Any help will > be >>> greatly appreciated. >>> Darlene Miller >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ >> >> >> Jude >> ____________________________________________________ >> jude.elliot@xtra.co.nz >> jude@darfield.school.nz >> >> >> ==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== >> 'Here's tae us, wha's like us? Damn few and thair a' deid.' >> >> ============================== >> Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >> Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >> > > > ==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== > ATTENTION those of you with Elliot in your line!!! Have you thought of > trying the CLAN-ELLIOT list at CLAN-ELLIOT-L@rootsweb.com Why not give it a try? > > ============================== > You can manage your RootsWeb-Review subscription from > http://newsletters.rootsweb.com/ >

Hi all A quick canter through the IGI shows an Agnes ELLIOT and Robert THOMPSON 'married' in Jan and Feb 1850, at Bowden and Selkirk. Quite possibly this is the same couple and one or both of these references are banns. These are not rare names but I think it would be worth checking out this Agnes - perhaps she was Sir Gilbert's sister and daughter of the 2nd Bart not the 3rd??? Judy ---------- >From: "Jude Elliot" <jude.elliot@xtra.co.nz> >To: SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [SCT-ROX] Re: Fw: ELLIOT >Date: 13, Mon Sep, 2004, 5:55 am > > Darlene > > According to "The Elliot - the story of a border clan" Sir Gilbert Elliot of > Minto, 3rd baronet, married Agnes Dalrymple-Murray-Kynynmound 14 > Dec 1746 (pp146-148). Named female children of this couple are > Isabella, died unmarried, Eleanor born 1757 who married William Eden. > There were also 6 sons. No Agnes marrying a Robert Thompson. The > book says there were six sons and 2 daughters. > > The book is by The Dowager Lady Eliott of Stobs and Sir Arthur Eliott, > 11th Baronet of Stobs, pub Seeley Service & Co Ltd 1974 ISNB 0 > 85422081x > > On 10 Sep 2004 at 15:59, Darlene Miller wrote: > > >> Hello, >> I have one connection to make to complete proof of belonging to a certain >> Elliot family. Is there anyone out there who has a list of the children of >> the 3rd Sir Gilbert ELLIOT (1722- 1777) of Minto, Roxburgh, Scotland? I >> also need the name of his wife. He sat as a member of Parliament for Selkirk >> and then Roxburghshire. The list of children is the missing link between >> several generations in America and Scotland. I am especially interested in >> a daughter, Agnes, who may have married a Robert Thompson. Any help will be >> greatly appreciated. >> Darlene Miller >> >> >> ______________________________ > > > Jude > ____________________________________________________ > jude.elliot@xtra.co.nz > jude@darfield.school.nz > > > ==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== > 'Here's tae us, wha's like us? Damn few and thair a' deid.' > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

I had a busy weekend, so others have probably replied already, but here goes an attempt at the explanation: First, second, third, etc. cousins are how many generations since the split from a common ancestor. So siblings are the split generation (they share common parents), first cousins are the first generation past the split (they share grandparents), second cousins are the second generation since the split, third cousins are the generation after that, and so on. In other words, people who are fifth cousins are the same number of generations from the common ancestor. A m. B and have children (common ancestor) siblings C and D (the generation of the split from a common ancestor) have children who are 1st cousins E and F (first generation after the split) who have children who are 2nd cousins G and H (second generation after the split) who have children who are 3rd cousins I and J (third generation after the split) But what if two people are a different number of generations from the common ancestor? That's where the removed comes in. So if the common ancestors are grandparents for one of the people in the relationship, but the great great grandparents for the other, they are first cousins twice removed. First cousins because you work from the closer relationship (the person from the closer generation to the common ancestors) and twice removed because the person from the 'younger' generation is two generations further on. A m. B and have children (common ancestor) siblings C and D (the generation of the split from a common ancestor) have children who are 1st cousins E and F (first generation after the split, grandchildren of the common ancestors). Then E had child named X who has a child named Y. So Y and F are first cousins twice removed. Hope this helps, BJ > -----Original Message----- > From: Judy Dawe [mailto:dawejudy@charter.net] > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 4:38 PM > To: SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SCT-ROX] RELATIONSHIPS. > > > I've had 3-4 relation charts since 30 years alo and have yet to understand > the difference "between second cousin" and "first cousin twice removed". > Thanks for asking that question. It's a mystery to me too. jld >

Hi Helen, On reading your email I found that you also are researching the ALLAN name in Scotland. I am looking for my great grandfathers birth in Roxburgh. He was David ALLAN born c. 1828. Hope that you can find a connection. Regards Desni (Australia) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen McD" <helenmcd20@hotmail.com> To: <SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 11:19 AM Subject: [SCT-ROX] 1851 census for Hawick and interests > I am researching my partner's family tree and this includes the following > names in Scotland: > > SHIPLEY > ALLAN > GALTON > STEVENSON > > I have had trouble obtaining details fo the marraige of William SHIPLEY to > Margaret STEVENSON in 1848 and this means I have hit a brick wall as I > cannot find out who their parents were - I found the banns dated 28 Aug 1848 > in the HAwick register, courtesy of the Scottish Giv site but nothing else > is available - any suggestions please? > > I am also hoping that the couple may have still been in Hawick for the 1851 > census and would be grateful for suggestion as to how I find out - has this > census been indexed at all? > > I would, of course, be interested to hear from anyone who is researching > these names > > Thank you for reading my message > > Helen McDiarmid > > > > ==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== > ATTENTION those of you with Elliot in your line!!! Have you thought of trying the CLAN-ELLIOT list at CLAN-ELLIOT-L@rootsweb.com Why not give it a try? > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Is anybody researching the name LINDORES in Yetholm? I am researching Alexander Lindores (later Lindus) who was born Scotland. I wish to confirm that I have found the correct Alexander who stated on an English census 1841 that he was born Scotland. Edna. in Kent

Thanks, Jeffery, that's been the most helpful to me yet of all of them. I can actually put names in place to help understand the relationship. An aside: I've held a private theory (no proof at all) that my DAVlIDSON's may have come out of Roxburghshire. I know the name is strong in Scotland. My GGGF, Philip Davidson, was born in Irthington. Which I understand isn't far from the border. I have know information on his father George; the only thing I know about his other is she was born in Walton, also not far from the border. Are there quite a proliferation of DAVIDSON's in ROX? As I say, it's a private theory and nothing I've tried to pursue. Thanks for the other info. Judy Dawe

jld, Perhaps needlessly, I will bail in too on this whole cousins and removal thing. Here is a link I found on the webpage that Mark Usher included in his email (http://www.heirsearch.com/table.htm). I think this Table on Consanguinity (used when dividing an estate to figure out which relatives are closer than others) is the most helpful. Looking at this table, the relationship title in each box represents the relationship to the individual called the Decedent (who is the deceased person whose estate is being divided): so the Children are the Decedent's children; the Great Grandparents are the Decedent's great grandparents; and the Third Cousin Thrice Removed is the Decedent's third counsin thrice removed. Hope it helps. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Dawe" <dawejudy@charter.net> To: <SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ROX] RELATIONSHIPS. > Judy, I did fine with this part (>>start with children of siblings - first > cousins or 'cousins german'. they have the same grandparents. > Any complete step down from this is one of the numbered cousin > relationships.<<) > > After that I get lost. But it's not your explanation. I fought Physics > logic too. And lost. jld > > > > ==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== > If you're interested in the Border area have you considered joining our 'sister-list' SCT-BERWICK ? > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Pretty simple really. The son/daughter of your first cousin is your first cousin once removed. The grandchildren of your first cousin are your first cousins twice removed. Look here for some of the charts that make it easier to understand, and further explanations. http://www.cyndislist.com/cousins.htm -Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Judy Dawe [mailto:dawejudy@charter.net] > Sent: 12 September 2004 03:34 > To: SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SCT-ROX] RELATIONSHIPS. > > Judy, I did fine with this part (>>start with children of > siblings - first cousins or 'cousins german'. they have the > same grandparents. > Any complete step down from this is one of the numbered cousin > relationships.<<) > > After that I get lost. But it's not your explanation. I > fought Physics logic too. And lost. jld > > > > ==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== > If you're interested in the Border area have you considered > joining our 'sister-list' SCT-BERWICK ? > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new > Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. > Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

I am researching my partner's family tree and this includes the following names in Scotland: SHIPLEY ALLAN GALTON STEVENSON I have had trouble obtaining details fo the marraige of William SHIPLEY to Margaret STEVENSON in 1848 and this means I have hit a brick wall as I cannot find out who their parents were - I found the banns dated 28 Aug 1848 in the HAwick register, courtesy of the Scottish Giv site but nothing else is available - any suggestions please? I am also hoping that the couple may have still been in Hawick for the 1851 census and would be grateful for suggestion as to how I find out - has this census been indexed at all? I would, of course, be interested to hear from anyone who is researching these names Thank you for reading my message Helen McDiarmid

Judy, I did fine with this part (>>start with children of siblings - first cousins or 'cousins german'. they have the same grandparents. Any complete step down from this is one of the numbered cousin relationships.<<) After that I get lost. But it's not your explanation. I fought Physics logic too. And lost. jld

Put Elliot Minto Gilbert Hugh into google and go to the bottom link. cant vouch for the site and there is no Agnes - but Sir Gilbert's wife does seem to be an "Agnes" so perhaps you need to squeeze in another generation. Or maybe the site is inaccurate and doesnt have all the children. If anyone has one of the Tancred Books eg Rulewater and its Peoples, the family might be in there. Judy ---------- >From: "Darlene Miller" <darrick@cox.net> >To: SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [SCT-ROX] Fw: ELLIOT >Date: 10, Fri Sep, 2004, 10:59 pm > > Subject: ELLIOT > > > Hello, > I have one connection to make to complete proof of belonging to a > certain Elliot family. Is there anyone out there who has a list of the > children of the 3rd Sir Gilbert ELLIOT (1722- 1777) of Minto, Roxburgh, > Scotland? I also need the name of his wife. He sat as a member of > Parliament for Selkirk and then Roxburghshire. > The list of children is the missing link between several generations in > America and Scotland. I am especially interested in a daughter, Agnes, who > may have married a Robert Thompson. > Any help will be greatly appreciated. > Darlene Miller >

A few weeks ago my mother gave me a bit of a turn by phoning me up to announce I had become a great aunt. This was a bit of a shock, since my oldest nephew is a bit young to be a father. Anyway, what she meant was that my cousins daughter had had her baby. My mother is the new mother's great aunt so assumed this made me a great aunt too. In fact I am the new baby's first cousin twice removed, because his grandfather is my first cousin. So this is how to understand it (a bit of paper helps): start with children of siblings - first cousins or 'cousins german'. they have the same grandparents. Any complete step down from this is one of the numbered cousin relationships. ie If you and your cousin have children, this new generation are second cousins, and share the same great grandparents. The next step down are third cousins etc. Whenever the steps get out of kilter, then you have a 'removed', and you always start from the top, ie the last place you had a straightforward cousin relationship, rather than working backwards from the furthest removed generation. A third cousin once removed is third cousins plus a generation extra on one side, NOT third cousins minus a generation, which is second cousins once removed. If your first cousin has a child, you and that child are first cousins once removed. If you then have a child, that child is the second cousin of your cousin's child, and first cousin once removed of your cousin. Hope this helps and xxx help me if I've got any of it wrong! Judy ---------- >From: "Judy Dawe" <dawejudy@charter.net> >To: SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [SCT-ROX] RELATIONSHIPS. >Date: 10, Fri Sep, 2004, 8:38 pm > > have yet to understand > the difference "between second cousin" and "first cousin twice removed".

Could this be Margaret Hay (m.s. Best) at the 1881 census? Dwelling: 10 Cross Wynd Census Place: Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0224040 GRO Ref Volume 789 EnumDist 5 Page 2 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Margaret HAY W 60 F Ancrum, Roxburgh, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Housekeeper Also residing at 10 Cross Wynd was : Dwelling: 10 Cross Wynd Census Place: Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0224040 GRO Ref Volume 789 EnumDist 5 Page 2 Marr Age Sex Birthplace William HAY M 23 M Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Slater (Journeyman Out Of Employ) Maggie HAY M 21 Langholm, Dumfries, Scotland Rel: Wife James HAY 1 M Langholm, Dumfries, Scotland Rel: Son Good luck in your search, Valerie in Melbourne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clare Fowler" <clare@juggler.demon.co.uk> To: <SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 8:18 PM Subject: Looking for Thomas Best HAY > Hi there, > > I have hit a brick wall with Thomas Best HAY my GGG Grandfather. I have > a note of his marriage to Ann(a) Murray in Hawick on 17th May 1871. I > have details of his death in Glasgow in 1901, but can find no record of > his birth. I believe his parents, James Hay and Margaret Best, were > also married in Hawick in 1844, and from working out dates from census > records, etc., Thomas would have been born around 1846. In fact, I > can't find records of any children for James HAY and Margaret BEST. > > Do any of these names sound familiar to anyone? > > Many thanks in advance. > > Clare > > ______________________________

Hi Judy, I am sure you have the 1881 census entry for your family and also for son William who was working nearby : Dwelling: Poor House Census Place: Chirnside, Berwick, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0224029 GRO Ref Volume 730 EnumDist 1 Page 4 Marr Age Sex Birthplace William WILSON M 47 M England Rel: Head Occ: Coal Carter Mary WILSON M 40 F Foulden, Berwick, Scotland Rel: Wife Ellen WILSON U 17 F Chirnside, Berwick, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Paper Mill Worker Mary J. WILSON 10 F Chirnside, Berwick, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar Williamina WILSON 8 F Chirnside, Berwick, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar Peter WILSON 4 M Chirnside, Berwick, Scotland Rel: Son Joseph WILSON 2 M Chirnside, Berwick, Scotland Rel: Son Dwelling: Edington Mill Census Place: Chirnside, Berwick, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0224029 GRO Ref Volume 730 EnumDist 3 Page 16 Marr Age Sex Birthplace James MABON M 27 M Chirnside, Berwick, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Millar William WILSON U 15 M Chirnside, Berwick, Scotland Rel: Lodger Occ: Groom Margaret MABON M 24 F England Rel: Wife Occ: Millars Wife I noted that the family was living in the Poor House at Chirnside although it would appear that father William and daughter Ellen were employed. Clicking on the "Neighbours" option shows the following : Dwelling: Poor House Census Place: Chirnside, Berwick, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0224029 GRO Ref Volume 730 EnumDist 1 Page 3 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Eliza JOHNSTON W 64 F Chirnside, Berwick, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Looks After Poorhouse William JOHNSTON 13 M Foulden, Berwick, Scotland Rel: Grandson Occ: Scholar John C. LAWTON U 14 M Melrose, Roxburgh, Scotland Rel: Boarder Occ: MIll Wright (Apprentice) George CROW U 19 M Coldingham, Berwick, Scotland Rel: Boarder Occ: MIll Wright Journeyman Absolutely no proof, but it could be that Eliza Johnston was a relative (mother?) of Mary Wilson (m.s. Johnston/e). You might also consider traditional Scottish naming patterns (not infallible but worth thinking about) which might make Mary's father a Peter. There are a number of Peter Johnston/es in the Foulden and Chirnside area. These could be brothers/nephews/cousins. The middle name Knox is also worth bearing in mind when you get closer to finding the parents of William and Mary. You say >They were both still living >at the 1891 census. I'd like to find their death >records as well. Have you tried the 1901 census at http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ ? If you don't find them there, at least you will have narrowed down the time frame for death records. Their death certificates should name their parents if this information was known by the informant. Good luck, Valerie in Melbourne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy" <scottishgal@centurytel.net> To: <SCT-BERWICK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 12:25 PM Subject: RE: [SCT-BER] Lookup, PLEASE, Berwickshire MIs Pre 1855 > Dear Marge: > > How kind of you to offer. I'm looking for all records. The only one I have > is my g-grandmother's birth record. > > My gg-grandparents: > William WILSON, born England between 1833-1834, parents unknown > Mary JOHNSTON(E), born about 1840 Berwick, parents unknown > > According to my **g-grandmother's birth record, they were married at > Allanton, Edrom Parish, May 7, 1860. I don't know if that falls within the > Chirnside church records that you have or not. I have tried to get their > marriage records, but have failed to find them. They were both still living > at the 1891 census. I'd like to find their death records as well. > > Their children (this from the IGI): > Ellen Wilson, born about 1864 > William Wilson, born December 31, 1865 > Sarah Ann Wilson, born April 26, 1868 > **Mary Jane Wilson, born April 15, 1870 (I have her birth record) > Williamina Knox Wilson, born December 6, 1872 > Peter Wilson, born about 1877 > Joseph Wilson, born about 1879 > > I have no birth, marriage or death information for any but Mary Jane, my > great-grandmother. Any help you can give is much appreciated. > > Thank you, > Judy Ramsay > Morrisonville, Wisconsin, USA

Thanks for the reply. I am not sure if this is the same person, but it has given me a new avenue to research. Many thanks again Clare Valerie/Rowan Henshaw wrote: >Could this be Margaret Hay (m.s. Best) at the 1881 census? > >Dwelling: 10 Cross Wynd >Census Place: Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland >Source: FHL Film 0224040 GRO Ref Volume 789 EnumDist 5 Page 2 >Marr Age Sex Birthplace >Margaret HAY W 60 F Ancrum, Roxburgh, Scotland >Rel: Head >Occ: Housekeeper > >Also residing at 10 Cross Wynd was : > >Dwelling: 10 Cross Wynd >Census Place: Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland >Source: FHL Film 0224040 GRO Ref Volume 789 EnumDist 5 Page 2 >Marr Age Sex Birthplace >William HAY M 23 M Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland >Rel: Head >Occ: Slater (Journeyman Out Of Employ) >Maggie HAY M 21 Langholm, Dumfries, Scotland >Rel: Wife >James HAY 1 M Langholm, Dumfries, Scotland >Rel: Son > >Good luck in your search, > >Valerie in Melbourne > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Clare Fowler" <clare@juggler.demon.co.uk> >To: <SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 8:18 PM >Subject: Looking for Thomas Best HAY > > > > >>Hi there, >> >>I have hit a brick wall with Thomas Best HAY my GGG Grandfather. I have >>a note of his marriage to Ann(a) Murray in Hawick on 17th May 1871. I >>have details of his death in Glasgow in 1901, but can find no record of >>his birth. I believe his parents, James Hay and Margaret Best, were >>also married in Hawick in 1844, and from working out dates from census >>records, etc., Thomas would have been born around 1846. In fact, I >>can't find records of any children for James HAY and Margaret BEST. >> >>Do any of these names sound familiar to anyone? >> >>Many thanks in advance. >> >>Clare >> >>______________________________ >> >> > > >==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== >ATTENTION those of you with Elliot in your line!!! Have you thought of trying the CLAN-ELLIOT list at CLAN-ELLIOT-L@rootsweb.com Why not give it a try? > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > >

Does any one have the family name Hobkirk with Robert, Walter, John and William in it? Girls are Janet, Mary, Eliza, Margaret anong others. Mostly arround Ancrum, Selkirk and Hawick. I go back to the mid 1700's and would love to find out about the siblings of my ancestors. Tina.

One way to have a half cousin is, as in my husbands family in Wales, where the grandmother married for a second time. The children of each half sibling were half cousins to each other. In his case complicated to three quarter cousins, perhaps, as the grandmothers two husbands were full cousins to each other and had the same surname. Just a thought. Or could it be an adopted child who was always refered to as a half cousin as she or he were not really fully related? One of my aunts insisted her child was adopted, aquired during the war, all those poor motherless children! The family never fully believed her but that cousin was always added to the list as an afterthought. A conversation might go - There are 11 cousins, Oh, and ........ of course. Tina

I've had 3-4 relation charts since 30 years alo and have yet to understand the difference "between second cousin" and "first cousin twice removed". Thanks for asking that question. It's a mystery to me too. jld

----- Original Message ----- From: Darlene Miller To: SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.ccom Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: ELLIOT Hello, I have one connection to make to complete proof of belonging to a certain Elliot family. Is there anyone out there who has a list of the children of the 3rd Sir Gilbert ELLIOT (1722- 1777) of Minto, Roxburgh, Scotland? I also need the name of his wife. He sat as a member of Parliament for Selkirk and then Roxburghshire. The list of children is the missing link between several generations in America and Scotland. I am especially interested in a daughter, Agnes, who may have married a Robert Thompson. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Darlene Miller

Hi List I have been hoping to find a website with ship passenger lists of people emigrating from Scotland to Canada in 1831 (or even possibly 1832) but there doesn't seem to be any existing lists from that far back. Would anyone happen to have a ship's list from either of those years with a John Cleghorn and family on board. If so I would be very grateful if you would share the name of the ship and the passenger list with me. Thanks for any help you can give. Mary Ellen