Good evening Marion, In post 1855 certificates the father although deceased is normally given . I have four relatives, all trawlermen, who were drowned prior to a birth and were shown simply as "deceased " . One then has to check death certificate to find date and cause of death. One death date was only found by checking the Poor Law records. These showed his wife asking for funds to feed her child due to her husband's death prior to the childs birth. In pre 1855 OPR births some parishes show "deceased" others give "lawful child of " giving both parents names. It is only possible to check back after finding the father's death.to confirm he was dead before the birth. Regards. John. John D.Stevenson, Edinburgh. johndee.ships@btinternet.com > > If a child was born after the father had died, would he normally be > left > off the birth certificate. > > Would a person have too prove he/she was a widow/er before they could > re-marry

Good Evening Would anyone be able to tell me…. If a child was born after the father had died, would he normally be left off the birth certificate. Would a person have too prove he/she was a widow/er before they could re-marry Thank you for any insight anyone may be able to offer. Marion Morpeth --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 22/10/2004

Marion, Just we can brainstorm, do you have an idea what the name of the deceased husband/father was? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marion Morpeth" <mymorpeth@btinternet.com> To: <SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 1:30 PM Subject: RE: [SCT-ROX] 1903 Birth Details/Marriage Details > Hello John > > I have the birth entry, and it doesn't mention the father in the > father's details, only after the mothers name giving a name and date of > marriage. The birth entry has illegitimate crossed, and a year later the > mother is re married, and states widow. Yet I cannot find a death for > him on the GRO. > > > >Good evening Marion, > In post 1855 certificates the father although deceased is normally given > . > I have four relatives, all trawlermen, who were drowned prior to a > birth > and were shown simply as "deceased " . One then has to check death > certificate to find date and cause of death. > One death date was only found by checking the Poor Law records. These > showed > his wife asking for funds to feed her child due to her husband's death > prior > to the childs birth. > In pre 1855 OPR births some parishes show "deceased" others give "lawful > > child of " giving both parents names. It is only possible to check back > after finding the father's death.to confirm he was dead before the > birth. > > Regards. > John.< > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 22/10/2004 > > > > ==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== > ARE you a Crosier or Crozier, or connected to one of them, then why not try Crosier-L@rootsweb.com Surely it's got to be worth a try? > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Hi I know this is really nothing to do with research, but I am a Scot and have been a resident in Australia, for many years. Haggis is YUM in Scotland, but yuck here in Australia, they do not use the proper oatmeal, and it is very greasy etc etc, I was over in Scotland on holiday last year, and the haggis still tasted great over there. so I will content myself with not eating any over here!! regards Nicky Y --------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.

With all this talk of Haggis I wonder if someone could post the recipe please. Thank you. Betty in Ontario, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roland and Alison deCaen" <decaenr@shaw.ca> To: <SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ROX] Re Haggis > You should be in Calgary. Our Scottish butcher does a great Haggis - I think > with a little adjustment ! > Alison > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nicky Young" <eddlerose2000@yahoo.com.au> > To: <SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 7:00 PM > Subject: [SCT-ROX] Re Haggis > > > > Hi > > I know this is really nothing to do with research, but I am a Scot and > have been a resident in Australia, for many years. Haggis is YUM in > Scotland, but yuck here in Australia, they do not use the proper oatmeal, > and it is very greasy etc etc, > > I was over in Scotland on holiday last year, and the haggis still tasted > great over there. > > so I will content myself with not eating any over here!! > > regards > > Nicky Y > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. > > > > > > ==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== > > The ROXBURGH NAMES list is updated every three months and all members > recieve approx two weeks notice of each update. > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > ==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== > Help us to improve this list by asking all your Roxburgh friends to subscribe to 'SCT-ROXBURGH' > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Hi Alison, Did you get my note about Janet Elliot and was it of any use? Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roland and Alison deCaen" <decaenr@shaw.ca> To: <SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:33 PM Subject: [SCT-ROX] PEDIGREE CHART > Does anyone know if I can download onto my computer a 12 GENERATION PEDIGREE CHART to work on . (not circular) > > I get so frustrated trying to make my own & keep "messing up" > > Alison in Calgary > > > ==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== > ATTENTION those of you with Armstrong in your line!!! Have you thought of trying the CLAN-ARMSTRONG list at CLAN-ARMSTRONG-L@rootsweb.com Why not give it a try?? > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Hi, John. I see you have a ROBSON in ROX about the same time I'm looking. But I can find no other info. Plus I don't have enough to pin it down. ROBSON, John Born abt. 1799 in Newcastleton. Got the place from a family researcher, so no proof on my part. The date I took from the 1881 US census record in Aspatria. John is listed as 82. I believe he may have died about 1884. His wife, Jane, immigrated to the US with their son, Andrew, and his family. I thought his father may have been Andrew also. But that name could have come from her family. Look forward to comparing note. Judy Dawe, Saginaw, MI

BRASH,Hawick &Wilton,1800 to present, jpgeist@csolve.net Amanda Geist. CLARK,Hawick & Wilton, 1800 to present, jpgeist@csolve.net Amanda Geist. CRAWFORD,Wilton & Lilliesleaf, 1780 to present, jpgeist@csolve.net Amanda Geist. DODDS,Hawick & Wilton, 1830 to present, jpgeist@csolve.net Amanda Geist. HISLOP,Lilliesleaf, 1830 to present, jpgeist@csolve.net Amanda Geist. KENNEDY, Ancrum,1800 to present, jpgeist@csolve.net Amanda Geist. McPAKE, all areas, 1840 to present jpgeist@csolve.net Amanda Geist. POLLOCK, all areas, 1840 to present, jpgeist@csolve.net Amanda Geist. ROBSON,Hawick & Wilton,1780 to present, jpgeist@csolve.net Amanda Geist. RUTHERFORD, all areas,1800 to present, jpgeist@csolve.net Amanda Geist. SMEATON,all areas,1800 to present, jpgeist@csolve.net Amanda Geist. WHEELANS,all areas, 1760 to present, jpgeist@csolve.net Amanda Geist. WHILLANS,all areas, 1760 to present, jpgeist@csolve.net Amanda Geist. WHITE,Hawick, 1900 to present,jpgeist@csolve.net Amanda Geist. Thank you. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 19/10/04

Hi Helen Each to their own but I still say Haggis is Yuk. Im waiting for the response from our 'scots cousins'. Beth northern NSW

You should be in Calgary. Our Scottish butcher does a great Haggis - I think with a little adjustment ! Alison ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicky Young" <eddlerose2000@yahoo.com.au> To: <SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 7:00 PM Subject: [SCT-ROX] Re Haggis > Hi > I know this is really nothing to do with research, but I am a Scot and have been a resident in Australia, for many years. Haggis is YUM in Scotland, but yuck here in Australia, they do not use the proper oatmeal, and it is very greasy etc etc, > I was over in Scotland on holiday last year, and the haggis still tasted great over there. > so I will content myself with not eating any over here!! > regards > Nicky Y > > > > --------------------------------- > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. > > > ==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== > The ROXBURGH NAMES list is updated every three months and all members recieve approx two weeks notice of each update. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Jeffrey said that the Janet he is looking into was born around 1821. There is a Janet Elliot born around 1821 and she is the daughter of Ninian. One of my bunch However on her tombstone it said that Janet Elliot died, no married name given. Jeffrey's Janet died in Dumfries in 1880 and was wife of William Telfer. Their marriage is listed Hi Jeffrey- a lovely day today and yesterday. What a change. Roy as you gather we both live in Calgary ! Alison ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy G. Perkins" <roygraham@perkins9617.freeserve.co.uk> To: <SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 4:29 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-ROX] MARRIAGE OF TELFER & ELLIOT 1848 > Hi Alison, > > Sorry, Janet Elliot born 10th October 1826. I must have had a brainstorm. > > Roy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roy G. Perkins" <roygraham@perkins9617.freeserve.co.uk> > To: <SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 11:04 AM > Subject: Re: [SCT-ROX] MARRIAGE OF TELFER & ELLIOT 1848 > > > > Hi Alison, > > > > I don't have details of a marriage but I have a Janet Elliot born 10th > > October 1825 who was the daughter of Robert Elliot of Hermitage and Mary > > Murray of Whisgills. If this seems likely I have more details if you want > > them. > > > > Regards > > > > Roy. > > > > P.S. The Murrays of Whisgills are quite a famous family, try your Byers > > index. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Roland and Alison deCaen" <decaenr@shaw.ca> > > To: <SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 10:11 PM > > Subject: [SCT-ROX] MARRIAGE OF TELFER & ELLIOT 1848 > > > > > > > PLEASE -Does anyone have access to the marriages for Castleton 1848. I > am > > looking for information on the parents of Janet Elliot who married William > > Telfer on 21 January 1848. > > > Alison in Calgary > > > > > > > > > ==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== > > > Stand firm and sure > > > For Jethart's here > > > > > > ============================== > > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > ==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== > > Help us to improve this list by asking all your Roxburgh friends to > subscribe to 'SCT-ROXBURGH' > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > ==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== > ATTENTION those of you with Elliot in your line!!! Have you thought of trying the CLAN-ELLIOT list at CLAN-ELLIOT-L@rootsweb.com Why not give it a try? > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Hi Byron Thanks for that. I was also able to find Margaret's other son, William, and his wife. Am I right in thinking that ages of adults were rounded up/down to the nearest 5 years? The ages don't quite fit with the christening dates I have and I seem to remember having read that this was done on the English census. I also noticed that Margaret (below) is noted as married but there's no trace of her husband, Alexander. Did they distinguish between married and widowed on the 1841 census, as they did on later census? Thanks - Shelagh -----Original Message----- From: BMDavis@aol.com [mailto:BMDavis@aol.com] Sent: 26 October 2004 16:28 To: SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCT-ROX] Tracing Howieson's of Smailholm Hi-- For the 1841-1891 census, try http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl. Byron California (Use the phonetic spelling option) *** one of many: 1841 Census 2 Records found  Piece: SCT1841/805 Place: Smailholm-Roxburghshire Enumeration District: 1 Civil Parish: Smailholm Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: - Folio: 1 Page: 1 Address: Smailholm ------------------------------------------------------------------------     Surname   First name(s)   Sex   Age   Occupation   Where Born   Remarks       HOUISON   Margaret   F   65       Outside Census County (1841)           HOUISON   James   M   25   Tailor    Roxburghshire               ==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== ARE you a Crosier or Crozier, or connected to one of them, then why not try Crosier-L@rootsweb.com Surely it's got to be worth a try? ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Does anyone know if I can download onto my computer a 12 GENERATION PEDIGREE CHART to work on . (not circular) I get so frustrated trying to make my own & keep "messing up" Alison in Calgary

Can anyone tell me type of check was done when Passport where issued about 1910. I have I believe found a relative who left her husband & went to Australia on her own. On board the "Persic" from Liverpool to Albany, 10 July 1910. It was under her maiden name not her married name I found her. So could she have been issued a passport in her maiden name, or can anyone advise me on where I can do more research on this matter Bob

Hi-- For the 1841-1891 census, try http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl. Byron California (Use the phonetic spelling option) *** one of many: 1841 Census 2 Records found  Piece: SCT1841/805 Place: Smailholm-Roxburghshire Enumeration District: 1 Civil Parish: Smailholm Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: - Folio: 1 Page: 1 Address: Smailholm ------------------------------------------------------------------------     Surname   First name(s)   Sex   Age   Occupation   Where Born   Remarks       HOUISON   Margaret   F   65       Outside Census County (1841)           HOUISON   James   M   25   Tailor    Roxburghshire              

Hi I'm tracing the Howieson branch of my family tree. Margaret Howieson married James Henderson in Galashiels in 1872. Margaret was baptised at Smailholm in in 1948 and was the daughter of William Howieson and Euphemia Cochrane (married at Smailholm in 1840. Their other children were Alexander, George, Jane, Helen and there's a female child christened in 1857 who appears on the IGI index with no forename. William Howieson christened in 1814 and was the son of Alexander Howieson and Margaret Armstrong, who married in Smailholm in 1806. He had a brother, James, who was christened in 1813. That's as far as I've got. There seem to have been quite a few Howieson's in the area so it would be nice to compare notes with anyone else researching the same name. I've been able to search the censuses for 1881, 1891 and 1901 for these families but not further back, does anyone know if these are available online anywhere? Failing that would SKS be able to do a look up for me? I have a subscription to ancestry.co.uk and happy to do lookups on the 1891 census in return. I live in the Sheffield area and often visit the local archives, I'm happy to do lookup there too if anyone needs any. Thanks - Shelagh

Hello Amanda Thanks a lot for the info on the Whillans family. The only info I had on Hannah apart from her being my G.G.Grandmother was through her death cert which gave her parents names. I will certainly follow up on the rest. John Elliot was in the 1841 Census for Denholm, Cavers Parish as follows:- Robert Elliot age 25yrs Head, born Newcastleton. Hannah Elliot age 25yrs Wife, born Crailing. John Elliot Son age 4yrs born Hobkirk. Also the 1851 Census for Jedburgh, Dwelling, Hundalee.:-Robert Elliot age 36yrs. Head born Newcastleton. Hannah Elliot age35yrs Wife, born Crailing. John Elliot age 14yrs Son born Hobkirk. Archibald age 9yrs Son born Cavers, Walter age 3yrs Son born Ancrum. Kind regards Carmel

Hi, I'm new to the list. I am looking for any information on John and Hellen Horsman of Hawick. They married around 1811 and had children Nancy (c. 1812) and Peter (c. 1816) before arriving at Baltimore, Maryland via the port of Liverpool in 1818. John was born between 1780 and 1790. Hellen was married previously, and had a daughter named Eleanor (Nelly), born c. 1810. Hellen's maiden name or first married name could have been Rae. In America John owned a carding factory, and his sons and sons-in-law were involved in the woolen industry. Since I have so little Scottish information on John, I am hoping for any details anyone can offer, such as his marriage to Hellen (circa 1811), tax records, census records, and maybe even birth records (c. 1780-1790). Even a record of birth for his children Nancy (c. 1812) or Peter (c. 1816), would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Kathy John A. Lupton Kathy Le Comte Lupton johnkath@springnet1.com

Hello Susan, If you are descended from these TURNBULLs, then you are a distant cousin of my husband. William TURNBULL and Helen ARMSTRONG were my husband's 3x great grandparents. He is descended from their daughter Jane Scott TURNBULL (born 1824), who married Thomas KETCHIN on 21 Sep 1850 in Castleton. All I have about Janet TURNBULL is her birth, her tombstone, and her appearance in the 1851 and 1861 census. I know nothing about her husband William MURRAY except what is mentioned on the tombstone, and was not aware of any children of theirs. Any further information will be gratefully received! Have you managed to get any further back on William TURNBULL and Helen ARMSTRONG? I have got their death certificates naming their parents, but have not succeeded in finding anything else about them. I'm looking forward to hearing from you, and from Jack if he also fits into this TURNBULL family. Petra ----- Original Message ----- From: "SUSAN DAHL" <susandahl@starstream.net> To: <SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 5:27 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-ROX] Turnbull etc > Hi Jack, > > I have an Adam Turnbull (b 5/13/1874), who was the son of Janet Turnbull Murray (b circa 1846). Janet married William Murray (b circa 1850), one of their daughters, Hannah (b 11/30/1871) married Walter Gray. Janet's parents were William Turnbull and Helen Armstrong. William Murray's parents were walter Murray and Hannah Hardie. Any connection? > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: brady@telusplanet.net > Reply-To: SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com > Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:48:45 -0700 > > > > >Rearching:Turnbull,Pringle,Beattie,Hogarth,Murray,Rutherford,Elliot,Gray,Wh illa > >ns and Laidlaw. > >Jack Turnbull > >brady@telusplanet.net

Another but in - its all a matter of taste but I like Haggis and I'm not even Scottish even though my name is McDiarmid! Not Irish either - a suggestion that always made my ex- scottish husband mad - probably was Irish in the dim and distant tho - Helen From: "Beth" <mrck@tpg.com.au> Reply-To: "Beth" <mrck@tpg.com.au> To: SCT-ROXBURGH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCT-ROX] www.klaidlaw.net Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:09:40 +1000 Hi Judy Sorry for butting in on your conversation with Kurt But haggis looks even worse. It was the only thing my father couldnt get us second generation aussies to eat. Beth norther NSW ==== SCT-ROXBURGH Mailing List ==== ATTENTION those of you with Armstrong in your line!!! Have you thought of trying the CLAN-ARMSTRONG list at CLAN-ARMSTRONG-L@rootsweb.com Why not give it a try?? ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237