HI, No Janet was Liddell before she married , first Thomas Boyd in Slamannan and then David Johnston cheers Maggie in Brisbane maggieclan@iprimus.com.au -----Original Message----- From: CJ Keim <cjkeim@bigpond.com> To: SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com <SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, February 09, 2003 8:17 AM Subject: RE: [Renfrew] Death in Greenock 1889 >Hi Maggie, >Was your Janet Johnstone married to Thomas Chisholm? > > >CJ Keim (from Australia) > > >-----Original Message----- >From: maggieclan [mailto:maggieclan@iprimus.com.au] >Sent: Wednesday, 5 February 2003 5:41 PM >To: SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [Renfrew] Death in Greenock 1889 > >Hi List >I am trying to find which churchyard my 3 Great Grandmother would have >been >buried in >She dead in the Greenock Poorhouse 1889. >Janet Johnstone. >I am not having any success with finding any information on the >poorhouse or >health records. >so my last chance is finding where she could be buried > >any help would be much appreciated >regards maggie in Australia >maggieclan@iprimus.com.au > > > >==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== >********************************************************************** >The Renfrewshire GenWeb page is at >http://www.rootsweb.com/~sctrfw/ > > >==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== >********************************************************************** >The Renfrewshire Query board is at >http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/Scotland/Renfrew >

Hi Sandi. Thanks for that info on Robert Gemmell lawful son of Alexander Gemmell The Bennie info too is great will need to re read a bit yet to connect. Appreciate all the work you have put into this, it helps lots of "silent watcher" folk on this list. Irene in New Zealand

Georgena from Las Vegas also from Scotland writes: "I just thought I would correct an error mort clothes were over the coffin and were of various sizes and also various prices they were not shrouds." Quite right, Georgena. My comment reflects the problem of sending a message in the middle of the night, when one is half asleep, as I was, and not thinking carefully. ;-) In fact, the mortcloth was rented from the parish for funerals, which resulted in many of the poorer people not able to have this burial. The dues were given to the parish for the hire of the mortcloth or pall, as it was sometimes known. One writer suggests, another reason for the difficulty of finding persons in the few of these records that exist, may be the custom of carrying deceased persons to their native parish or burial place of their ancestor. However, he also has said the mortcloth was not used for children under the age of ten. This apparently was not the case in this parish. A tip of the hat to you, Georgina, for picking up on an error that shouldn't have been made. Cheers Don Wilson

Hi Don and others, I don't know if this was done in other parishes, but at Shotts, Lanark, there were many cases of the Parish donating the use of the Mortcloth by the poor. I've been transcribing their parish records for some time now, and this type of event seems to have been common there. These entries are like this one: 1834, Feb 2 By Mary Rennie's Mortcloth Remitted poverty 6 shillings 8 pence (3rd best) Sadly, not too many of these records have survived for other parishes. Jim Bundy ----- Original Message ----- From: <DonW16@aol.com> To: <SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Re: Different Christening Dates for BARR children > Georgena from Las Vegas also from Scotland writes: > "I just thought I would correct an error mort clothes were over the coffin > and > were of various sizes and also various prices they were not shrouds." > > Quite right, Georgena. My comment reflects the problem of sending a message > in the middle of the night, when one is half asleep, as I was, and not > thinking carefully. ;-) > In fact, the mortcloth was rented from the parish for funerals, which > resulted in many of the poorer people not able to have this burial. The dues > were given to the parish for the hire of the mortcloth or pall, as it was > sometimes known. > One writer suggests, another reason for the difficulty of finding persons in > the few of these records that exist, may be the custom of carrying deceased > persons to their native parish or burial place of their ancestor. > However, he also has said the mortcloth was not used for children under the > age of ten. This apparently was not the case in this parish. > A tip of the hat to you, Georgina, for picking up on an error that shouldn't > have been made. > Cheers > Don Wilson > > > > > ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************** > The Renfrewshire GenWeb page is at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~sctrfw/ > >

It's at <www.barrhead-scotland.com> on the left hand side. It has a search engine for surnames or you can page through all 13,718 pages of the census. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 10/01/2003

Hi Maggie, Was your Janet Johnstone married to Thomas Chisholm? CJ Keim (from Australia) -----Original Message----- From: maggieclan [mailto:maggieclan@iprimus.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 5 February 2003 5:41 PM To: SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Renfrew] Death in Greenock 1889 Hi List I am trying to find which churchyard my 3 Great Grandmother would have been buried in She dead in the Greenock Poorhouse 1889. Janet Johnstone. I am not having any success with finding any information on the poorhouse or health records. so my last chance is finding where she could be buried any help would be much appreciated regards maggie in Australia maggieclan@iprimus.com.au ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== ********************************************************************** The Renfrewshire GenWeb page is at http://www.rootsweb.com/~sctrfw/

Hello list, Are there any other 1851 census details on line for Renfrew? Regards Eddie

Try Inverclyde Council Greenock Crematorium 1 South Street Greenock PA16 8UG I have always gotten a response from them, when I have written. As yet, I have not been charged a fee for any lookups, I have included International Reply Coupons to cover postage costs. They have been nice enough to let me know who else is in the Lair, if it is a family burial plot. As Janet was in the Greenock Poorhouse, then likely she would be in a common grave with others. As you do not already have a Lair number for Janet, be sure to include all the death information you do have. Good Luck, Julie Dufault Merrimack, New Hampshire, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "maggieclan" <maggieclan@iprimus.com.au> To: <SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:40 AM Subject: [Renfrew] Death in Greenock 1889 > Hi List > I am trying to find which churchyard my 3 Great Grandmother would have been > buried in > She dead in the Greenock Poorhouse 1889. > Janet Johnstone. > I am not having any success with finding any information on the poorhouse or > health records. > so my last chance is finding where she could be buried > > any help would be much appreciated > regards maggie in Australia > maggieclan@iprimus.com.au >

Hello Angela Would appreciate the Hunter Busby/Mearns information, I hope you are not too over welled. Best wishes from Qld., Australia...Jenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela McMurtry" <palmtreeqld@optusnet.com.au> To: <SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 7:01 PM Subject: [Renfrew] some Renfrew surnames 1891 Eaglesham > This is a short list of surnames of those born in Renfrew but not in > Eaglesham . In 1891 Census > > DUNLOP / Lochside / Ashtonfield > WEIR / Paisley > McKENZIE / Paisley > WADE / Paisley > McCALLUM / Barrhead > CRAM (?) / Mearns > McNALLY / Thornliebank > NISBET / Pollockshaws > MATHIESON / Paisley > WATSON / Mearns > LENNON / Mearns and Busby > WHITE / Mearns > PERCH / Renfrew > STRANG /Renfrew & Mearns > McCATRNEY / Mearns and Busby > CLARK / Mearns > RENFREW / Mearns > WHYLIE / Neilston > MELVILLE / Barrhead > CRAWFORD / Barrhead > MELVILLE this one b Paisley but wife and 4 kids b Conneticut USA > CARSWELL / Mearns > HUNTER / Busby & Mearns > MORRIS / Busby > SMITH / Mearns > > > > > ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************** > The Renfrewshire GenWeb page is at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~sctrfw/ >

I just thought I would correct an error mort clothes were over the coffin and were of various sizes and also various prices they were not shrouds. Georgena from Las Vegas also from Scotland.

Hello David, Just wanted to let you know I have been collating the information regarding my great grandfather Hugh's army record and the amazing legacy he has left the researchers, four possible places of birth but no dates. I will try to get the information ready to send this afternoon. Cheers, Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Warncken" <d.warncken@bigpond.com> To: <SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] HUGH STEVENSON > FYI. > > Hugh Stevenson, writer, died at Glasgow on 29 Oct 1874. The sole > beneficiary of his will was his sister, Alexa, who was living in Dumbarton > at that time. > > Hugh was a son (possibly the youngest) of Hugh Stevenson, the Surveyor of > Customs who died in Greenock in 1840. > > I have crossed him off (in pencil) my list of possible ancestors. > > David. > > > ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************** > The Renfrewshire GenWeb page is at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~sctrfw/ > >

Hello Jim in sweltering Western Australia, and other Renfrew listers. I was interested in your problem, Jim. I agreed with those who responded, that due to a very high mortality rate, these children would likely be deaths and later births named after the former child. As I was in the Family History Library in SLC today, I thought I’d do a little checking and discovered the above conclusion to be the fact. I knew there are practically none, if any, death records in Scotland. What they do have occasionally, is the payment of mortcloth dues for a burial, and usually only giving the person’s name. A mortcloth is the shroud the person is buried in, since caskets were not generally used in those early days. As I expected, there were no death records for the three Paisley parishes but I found that Abbey parish did have burial records. And I might say, they are among the best I’ve seen. The following is taken from FHL film #1041089 burials for Abbey Parish, 1783-1819 March 1, 1773, BARR, the middle velvet mortcloth to the corpse, John Barr, Daughter, lying in town of “Reace” (sp)……………………………………..1/8 This apparently was not a child. No given name noted. This might also suggest there are burials of children who weren't christened. 24 August, 1773 BARR, the child’s mortcloth to the corpse of James Barr, child lying in Hunlet . …………………………………………………………../10 Another child died on Dec 29, 1773, but the writer accidentally copied the last sentence of another entry, making this one rather unidentifiable. Beginning 1785 the deaths were in columns giving date, name, place and cause of death in some years; particularly later, and amount paid Example of another child of yours: On 22 Jan, 1789 Alex’r Barr, Causeyside (my interpretation), disease was not given. Disadvantage, no relationship provided 1795-1819 the column headings were date of death, name, family relationship, cause of death age, and amount due. 1819 completed this microfilm, though later years appeared to be the same. Other burial records for Abbey parish are: 1819-1826, Film #1041090 & 1833-1864 Film # 1041091 Most of the burials were children and, in 1778 for example, nearly all burials were children. I happened to notice on 14 Aug. 1833 Jannet BARR died of debility, age 60, of Newton, (sp) She would have been born around 1833, if her age is close, and could be a relative. I would suggest ordering these films from your Family History Center, as I only did an introductory look. You need time to search and also, figure out the handwriting. Hopefully one is close enough to you. Good Hunting Don Wilson, formerly Ontario, Canada Spanish Fork, Utah

Hi Angela, I'd appreciate if you could see if James Scott is still there, it was his address earlier. He should be 56 and born Lanark, he was a cotton spinner as a younger man. I have lots of other Scotts, but no evidence of where any of them settled, so unless you find James and he has Scotts as neighbours then I'll not trouble you for them. Many thanks Moira ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela McMurtry" <palmtreeqld@optusnet.com.au> To: <SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:10 AM Subject: [Renfrew] 1891 Census Eaglesham > Hi There , > I have just transcribed the entire 1891 Eaglesham Census if anyone wants a > lookup. > Angela > > PS Please limit to 2 surnames at a time. > > > > ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************** > To search the archived lists, including this list go to http://archiver.rootsweb.com/search.html > >

Hi List I thought this web site might be of interest to some of you. www.nls.uk/pont This site has maps of Scotland created by Timothy Pont. Among the National Library of Scotland's greatest treasures are the earliest surviving detailed maps of Scotland, made by Timothy Pont over 400 years ago, in the 1580s and 1590s. Well worth a look. For anyone in the Paisley area there is an exhibition at the University of Paisley and a talk on the Early Maps of Renfrewshire. Contact me off list if you wish more details. John Grant _________________________________________________________________ Surf together with new Shared Browsing http://join.msn.com/?page=features/browse&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=74&DI=1059

Anyone want to own up to having these people on their tree ? Wonder what happened to them. 1891 En District 562 ( Pollockshaws ) Peter DUFFY Age 'about 60' b 'supposedly Ireland' tramp Jane DUFFY Age 'about 50' b ' supposedly Ireland' tramp Surname UNKNOWN , Jamie Age ' about 30 ' b 'supposedly Ireland' tramp Surname UNKNOWN , Mary Age 'about 26' b ' supposedly Ireland ' tramp

This is a short list of surnames of those born in Renfrew but not in Eaglesham . In 1891 Census DUNLOP / Lochside / Ashtonfield WEIR / Paisley McKENZIE / Paisley WADE / Paisley McCALLUM / Barrhead CRAM (?) / Mearns McNALLY / Thornliebank NISBET / Pollockshaws MATHIESON / Paisley WATSON / Mearns LENNON / Mearns and Busby WHITE / Mearns PERCH / Renfrew STRANG /Renfrew & Mearns McCATRNEY / Mearns and Busby CLARK / Mearns RENFREW / Mearns WHYLIE / Neilston MELVILLE / Barrhead CRAWFORD / Barrhead MELVILLE this one b Paisley but wife and 4 kids b Conneticut USA CARSWELL / Mearns HUNTER / Busby & Mearns MORRIS / Busby SMITH / Mearns

I had been searching for about three years for my elusive great-grandmother Margaret JONES on the 1881 Census who I knew was at Finnieston, Barony in 1849 when her marriage Banns were made with Adam HOUSTON. With the 1851 Census for Neilston, Renfrewshire now on-line I looked for Margaret and my great-grandfather Adam HOUSTON there - as I believed they had a son William who was born there in 1849. ( William's birthplace was given as Kildow, Renfrew on the 1881 Census and Neilston, Renfrew on the 1891 census, Kildow I could not find anywhere and he was the only one born there on the whole 1881 census! ) Bingo ! ---- there they were at Neilston in 1851 and Margaret's place of birth was given as KILMAURS, Ayrshire, which was great news for me. Armed with that, I searched the 1881 Census for a Margaret, with no surname, born in Kilmaurs about 1827 --- Yes! I found her , with her children, living where they should be, at Lumsden street Glasgow under the name HAWTON. The transcriber had read HOUSTON as HAWTON and if you write Houston in italics it can look like Hawton! So, if you are stuck finding someone on the Census, try some other broader searches. I should have found her earlier as I knew her daughter Margaret lived at Lumsden Street in Barony from the death certificate of her father Adam HOUSTON b 1826 d 1887 and I had searched that Street before but overlooked HAWTON as not being a possible HOUSTON. Sorry for this long dribble. but I had to share this with you all -- one Granite wall now removed and I can move on. Regards Charles HOUSTON PS Adam apparently died of a prolonged love of alcohol. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 10/01/2003

I hope one of our resident experts can answer this one: I've been researching the children of John BARR and Bethia ALLEN in Abbey (Paisley). Of 5 children's names recorded, 4 are shown twice with different christening dates viz. John 19 JUN 1768 James 24 MAY 1772 James 14 JUL 1773 Allan 18 DEC 1777 Allan 27 JAN 1782 Alexander 03 MAY 1780 Alexander 06 SEP 1784 Ann 16 NOV 1786 Ann 18 DEC 1788 My first thought was that the children had died young and the names were re-used, but that suggests a mortality rate that is terribly high. Does anyone have another logical explanation, please? All the best Jim in sweltering Western Australia, the state with the climate that Queensland thinks it has!

Hi, I am looking for a James Pollock of Williamsborough about 1800. It is near Paisley or Glasglow. Please forward me the map info. Thank you. Hugh Pollock Montreal ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Grant" <johngrant55@hotmail.com> To: <SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 2:29 PM Subject: [Renfrew] Old Maps - Scotland > Hi List > > I thought this web site might be of interest to some of you. > > www.nls.uk/pont > > This site has maps of Scotland created by Timothy Pont. > > Among the National Library of Scotland's greatest treasures are the earliest > surviving detailed maps of Scotland, made by Timothy Pont over 400 years > ago, in the 1580s and 1590s. Well worth a look. > > For anyone in the Paisley area there is an exhibition at the University of > Paisley and a talk on the Early Maps of Renfrewshire. Contact me off list if > you wish more details. > > > > John Grant > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Surf together with new Shared Browsing > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/browse&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=74&DI=1059 > > > ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************** > To search the archived lists, including this list go to http://archiver.rootsweb.com/search.html > >

Child mortality in this time period was indeed very high. I don`t have numbers but a history Professor told us once that it was quiet something if a child survived the first year of life. Lots of reasons for this overcrowding, poverty, dirty water supply and poor knowledge of hygiene are amongst the many reasons. Two apparent birth dates close together might in fact be the birth and christening dates for a child. As for children with the same name I have found this in at least one of my families when an earlier child had died and the name was re-used for a later child. A combination of these explanations might apply to this family. Anne > > > My first thought was that the children had died young and the names were > re-used, but that suggests a mortality rate that is terribly high. > >>