Dear Christine , You can buy the CD's of the British 1881 Census from the LDS. The 1901 British Census is available at a cost on line at www.pro.gov.uk/ Below are your baker Swans from the 1881 Census:- Good hunting, John Carswell ,Mid North Coast,NSW Australia. Researching Carswell ,Howie ,Stevenson ,Gemmell, McKay , tenant farmers Neilston Parish. Dwelling: 8 Sir Michael St Census Place: Paisley High Church, Renfrew, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203581 GRO Ref Volume 573 EnumDist 9 Page 7 Marr Age Sex Birthplace James SWAN M 35 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Baker Jessie SWAN M 27 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Wife Jessie SWAN 8 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar James SWAN 6 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Scholar Isabella SWAN 4 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Margaret SWAN 1 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur John LAWRIE U 30 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Lodger Occ: Printer Machinist ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Normington" <christine.normington@ntlworld.com> To: <SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 12:18 AM Subject: [Renfrew] Census information > Please can anyone tell me whether any of the Paisley census are available to > buy on CD? > > Every Blessing, > Christine > > > ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************** > The Renfrewshire GENUKI page is at > http://www.skylinc.net/~lasmith/genuki/RFW/ > >

Many thanks for this, but are any other census available please? -----Original Message----- From: jccarswell [mailto:jccarswell@tsn.cc] Sent: 25 June 2003 21:45 To: SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Census information Dear Christine , You can buy the CD's of the British 1881 Census from the LDS. The 1901 British Census is available at a cost on line at www.pro.gov.uk/ Below are your baker Swans from the 1881 Census:- Good hunting, John Carswell ,Mid North Coast,NSW Australia. Researching Carswell ,Howie ,Stevenson ,Gemmell, McKay , tenant farmers Neilston Parish. Dwelling: 8 Sir Michael St Census Place: Paisley High Church, Renfrew, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203581 GRO Ref Volume 573 EnumDist 9 Page 7 Marr Age Sex Birthplace James SWAN M 35 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Baker Jessie SWAN M 27 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Wife Jessie SWAN 8 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar James SWAN 6 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Scholar Isabella SWAN 4 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Margaret SWAN 1 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur John LAWRIE U 30 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Lodger Occ: Printer Machinist ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Normington" <christine.normington@ntlworld.com> To: <SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 12:18 AM Subject: [Renfrew] Census information > Please can anyone tell me whether any of the Paisley census are available to > buy on CD? > > Every Blessing, > Christine > > > ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************** > The Renfrewshire GENUKI page is at > http://www.skylinc.net/~lasmith/genuki/RFW/ > > ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== ********************************************************************** To search the Rootsweb lists go to http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl

I am seeking the birth or christening of James SWAN born approximately 1846 or earlier in Paisley. His parents were David and Isabella SWAN, nee PAUL. Thank you Every Blessing, Christine

Please can anyone tell me whether any of the Paisley census are available to buy on CD? Every Blessing, Christine

Please can anybody link with the SWAN family who were bakers in Paisley? My great-grandfather was James SWAN, married to Janet ROBERTSON. Their children were: Jessie Swan (born 1872) b: 26 October 1872 in High Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland James Robertson Swan (1875) b: 2 February 1875 in 26 Canal Street, Highfar, Paisley, Scotland. He married Christine McPherson Steen (1876) 18 July 1899 in Clark Town Hall Paisley Baptist Church. Isabella Swan (1877) b: 27 January 1877 in 26 Canal Street, Paisley, Scotland Margaret McNish Swan (1879), b: 7 May 1879 in Sir Michael Street, Paisley, Scotland David Swan (1882), b: 13 March 1882 in 8 Sir Michael Street, Paisley, Scotland John Swan (1885), b: c. 1885 in Paisley, Scotland Matthew Robertson Swan (1887 - 1952) b: 30 September 1887 in 13 West Buchanan Street, Paisley. He married Alice Mardell (1887 - 1969) Agnes Scott Swan (1890), b: 16 February 1890 in 13 West Buchanan Street, Paisley, Scotland Eliza Robertson Swan (1892 - 1939) b: 26 November 1892 in Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland. She married James Mitchell Creaney (1896 - 1983). Every Blessing, Christine

Hi Have you tried this site http://www.barrhead-scotland.com/Culture/history/1851census.asp Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward McFadzean" <E.K.McF@btinternet.com> To: <SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 8:04 PM Subject: [Renfrew] Help needed > Hi list, > I,m trying to find the birth of James Kelly born abt 1848 in Barrhead to parents Cornelius Kelly and Catherine McGarry. its possible that he might James McGarry and Catherine was a widow when she married Cornelius Any help much appreciated. > > Regards Eddie > > > ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************** > The Renfrewshire GENUKI page is at > http://www.skylinc.net/~lasmith/genuki/RFW/ >

Hi list, I,m trying to find the birth of James Kelly born abt 1848 in Barrhead to parents Cornelius Kelly and Catherine McGarry. its possible that he might James McGarry and Catherine was a widow when she married Cornelius Any help much appreciated. Regards Eddie

Just want to say a quick thanks to all who responded with suggestions of where the "Bathing Quarters" might have been. I am putting the suggestions together in list form for future reference by other researchers. I'm sure this is not all inclusive, there maybe be other locations not yet mentioned. 1. Rothesay 2. Dunoon 3. Arran 4. Millport (Cumbrae) 5. Gourock 6. Wemyss 7. Helensburgh (Dunbartonshire) 8. and the nearer parts of Argyllshire 9. Paisley (the Paisley fair) 10. Ardrossan /largs 11. Saltcoats. Here is another interesting possibilty that was suggested "[The enumerator may actually mean somewhere where there were bathing-machines-- a kind of caravan in which one cd change into an all-enveloping bathing-costume of canvas or wool, while a horse drew it out into the water; one then emerged, climbed down the steps into the water, and was ducked thoroughly by an attendant, no doubt with accompanying shrieks; then the whole procedure was reversed and one went home to a warm bed." Thanks to all, Mike

Mike, I am intrigued by your message! In the absence of any other explanation could I suggest that the term bathing quarters might translate into 'seaside' and this may have been the forerunnerof the Paisley Fair Holiday Period? If this proves to be the case then your best plan would be to search out the holiday spot censuses for 1841. So far as the Ayrshire Coast is concerned you are fortunate for the Freecens Project for Ayrshire is well under way and Ayr & Prestwick are now on line at : http://www.speakeasy.org/~jgribble/ayr.html As you will see the rest are underway. It may be of course that the locations referred to are either Rothesay or Dunoon or even Arran or Millport (Cumbrae) or even Gourock or Wemyss Bay but at least its somewhere to start. Regards Duncan ----- Original Message ----- From: <Ranlinadan@aol.com> To: <SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 5:27 AM Subject: [Renfrew] Bathing Quarters > Hi all, > Just quick question. On my excursion through the 1841 Census for Paisley I > saw a note at the end of each E.D. That read, > > " At this season of the year many families Leave Paisley for the Bathing > Quarters and it was ascertained by the enumerator that in this district here > were absent on the night of the 6th of June ...." > > and then it went on to give the number. > > Where and what were the bathing Quarters? I've looked in Neilston, Abby, > Paisley High, Middle, Low and Abbey Paisley Parishes truing to locate my > ggg-grandparents Fleming with no luck. They were Married in Nielston, my > gg-grandfather was christened in Nielston, and the family minus my ggg-grandfather was in > Barrhead in 1851 (Mrs Fleming was listed as a widow) > Its possible I might have missed them in the 1841 Nielston census I've > got that reordered to take a second look. Different copy of the film this > time. > > Mike > > > > ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************** > The Renfrewshire GenWeb page is at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~sctrfw/ > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.

I was just rechecking the Greenock Burials that are available in microfilm from the LDS and noticed that the MI's (Monumental Inscriptions) are also available on microfilm. Julie Dufault Title Monumental inscriptions in Renfrewshire Authors Mitchell, John Fowler (Main Author) Mitchell, Sheila (Added Author) Note Location Film Also on microfilm. Salt Lake City : Filmed by the Genealogical Society of Utah, 1972. on 1 microfilm reel ; 35 mm. FHL BRITISH Film 874295 Item 1

Dear Mary Almost all of my Greenock families were married at home and one in a hall ,This was all new to me too Rose ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Campbell" <mary53@ntlworld.com> To: <SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 5:45 AM Subject: [Renfrew] Could you marry at home? > Hello List > I have some Scottish marriage cert's where the 'usual address' is the same > as in the column for 'When,Where and How married'. It also says in this > column 'after banns according to the forms of the Church of Scotland'. > Could people get married at home? I believe if you were housebound this was > allowed but these were not old or infirm but young people who went on to > have children. One address is 3 Silk Street, Paisley another one is 10 Old > Sneddon. I know these are not religious buildings so does anyone know if > this was legal? > Thankyou > Mary > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.490 / Virus Database: 289 - Release Date: 16/06/2003 > > > ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************** > The Renfrewshire GenWeb page is at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~sctrfw/ >

Hi Folks spare deaths from Scotlandspeople more details please email me direct: 1869 District of Abbey- Burgh of Paisley No 418- Ellen Bridget MCQUADE (single) died 22/12/ 1869, 2 South Croft, Paisley, Female aged 4 mths, dau of Patrick MCQUADE, shoemaker, Mary MCQUADE (Ms CASSIDY) No 419- Elizabeth WARD (single) died 23/12/1869, at 20 Abbey Street Paisley, female aged 9 months dau of Thomas WARD, threadmill worker, and Ann WARD (Ms COWAN) No 420- Elizabeth AITKEN (Married to Thomas AITKEN shawl weaver) illegitimate, died 22/12/1869, at 21 North Croft Paisley, female aged 51 years, dau of James LENNOX, farmer,reputed father, deceased and Elizabeth CAMPBELL (Ms JAMEISON), deceased 1879 Deaths in district of Calton, Burgh of GLASGOW No.772- Ann MUNRO married to John MUNRO, Chelsea pensioner,died 13/11/1879, at 88 Stevenson Street, Glasgow,female aged 76 years, dau of Alexander AITKEN, joiner, deceased, and Elizabeth AITKEN, (Ms CALDER), deceased No 773- Andrew PRASHA, Police Constable, Single, died 15/11/1879, at 11 Market St Glasgow, male, aged 37 years, son of George PRASHA, chemicals labourer and Mary PRASHA ms MORLAND No 774- James EDGAR, single, died 15/11/1879, 11 Furcern St Glasgow, Male, aged 31/2 years, son of Thomas Edgar, journeyman and Sarah EDGAR (MsARNOTT) 1878 Deaths of District of Abbey, Burg of Paisley- all on Christmas Day! No 490- George ADAM, shawl weaver, married to Elizabeth ADAM, died 25/12/1878, 5 East Buchanan Street, Paisley, male, aged 54 years, son of Andrew ADAM, shawl weaver(dec) and Helen ADAM (MS AITKEN) No 500 -Rebecca MELLON, thread Mill Worker (single) died 25/12/1878, 31 Fergus lie, Paisley, female, aged 15 years, dau of John MELLONEngine keeper, and Eliza MELLON (MS MCCORMACK) No 501- Ann AITKEN, married to James AITKEN, Shawl weaver, died 25/12/1878, 3 Lawn Street, Paisley, female, aged 75 years, dau of - STODDART (dec) and - STDDART Ms- (dec) 1879 Deaths District ofHolytown, Lanark No 1- Helen BOYLE (single) died 03/01/1879,Scarfie Parish of Rothwell, female, aged 2 years, dau of Thomas BOYLE (coalminer) and Stefanie BOYLE (Ms BRADSWHAW) No 2- MILLER (single) died 09/01/ 1879, Newhouse, parish of Bothwell, Female, aged 5 months, dau of James MILLER, quarry master and Mary MILLER (Ms JACK) No 3- Elizabeth AITKEN, widow of William AITKEN,Colliery manager,03/01/1879, New Heneslow(?) parish of Bothwell,, female aged 59 years, dau of William TOMLINSON, Hedger, dec and name & surname of mother no known (dec) Hope this helps someone Donna Auckland New Zealand

Hello No 3 Jim, ( & to think, there's more of us!) "Long White Cloud Jim" here, Nice to see the list settle down again and a wee bit humour come back in this often morbid, addictive,but great hobby or ( punishment of the chosen !) Where were your BAIRD lot from ? Got a few in my tree and still corresponding with a couple I went to school with. (only a few weeks back !!!) I did pick up on "Wee Moira's compliment" to you " Big Fella's in OZ", but I'm surprised to hear yer feelin' the cold in yer auld bones laddie ! Perhaps it is time we joined up tae OZ, and thicken yer blood with a bit of KIWI and HAGGIS" "which should also raise the IQ of the land of the Low Brown Cloud !!!!!" Happy to share the info' I have. Catchya for a VB & Bar B, one day (your shout !) Jim (The ONE !) -------Original Message------- From: Jim Baird Date: Friday, 20 June 2003 12:22:03 a.m. To: SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Apologies etcetera Moira Er, Jim? (yet another one) In case you missed it, Moira DID say Australia, so she must have meant me! <grin> Thanks, Moira. <blush> Unless, of course, the Land of the Long White Cloud has finally become the seventh state of the Land of the Low Brown Cloud? All the best Jim (the good looking one) in chilly Western Australia (new record last night for the lowest June minimum - 1.2 degrees C. Brrr!) >From: "Jim Bulloch" <jbulloch@xtra.co.nz> >Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Apologies etcetera Moira >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:13:53 +1200 (New Zealand Standard Time) > > Re " Blood, Worth Bottling" >Yer Right There, Hen ! ______________________________

Hello No 3 Jim, ( & to think, there's more of us!) "Long White Cloud Jim" here, Nice to see the list settle down again and a wee bit humour come back into this often morbid, addictive, but great hobby or ( punishment of the chosen !) Where were your BAIRD lot from ? Got a few in my tree and still corresponding with a couple I went to school with. (only a few weeks back !!!) I did pick up on "Wee Moira's compliment" to you " Big Fella's in OZ", but I'm surprised to hear yer feelin' the cold in yer auld bones laddie ! Perhaps it is time we joined up tae OZ, and thicken yer blood with a bit of KIWI and HAGGIS" "which should also raise the IQ of the land of the Low Brown Cloud !!!!!" Happy to share the info' I have. Catchya for a VB & Bar B, one day (your shout !) Jim (The ONE !) -------Original Message------- From: Jim Baird Date: Friday, 20 June 2003 12:22:03 a.m. To: SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Apologies etcetera Moira Er, Jim? (yet another one) In case you missed it, Moira DID say Australia, so she must have meant me! <grin> Thanks, Moira. <blush> Unless, of course, the Land of the Long White Cloud has finally become the seventh state of the Land of the Low Brown Cloud? All the best Jim (the good looking one) in chilly Western Australia (new record last night for the lowest June minimum - 1.2 degrees C. Brrr!) >From: "Jim Bulloch" <jbulloch@xtra.co.nz> >Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Apologies etcetera Moira >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:13:53 +1200 (New Zealand Standard Time) > > Re " Blood, Worth Bottling" >Yer Right There, Hen ! ______________________________

I have a number of marriages that took place in homes, both in Scotland, and in Australia. The minister performed the ceremony according to the rites of the church. One I have in Australia in 1936 between a couple who were active members of the church, but who were having a small wedding without lots of "trimmings". It was held in the home of the bride's parents. I have another that was held in Crawford's Hall in Greenock, again according to the rites of the church. I know that this family were regular attenders and members of the Mid Kirk in Greenock. It seems to have been quite a common event. Edith

Thankyou to everyone on the list who answered my query about marrying at home . I am quite clear on everything now. I forget sometimes that the laws in Scotland and England can be so different. This question was on another list I subscribe to with regards to England and the answer was 'definitely not without special permission'. I thought maybe Scotland was the same. Thankyou everyone for helping me sort this out. Mary --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.490 / Virus Database: 289 - Release Date: 16/06/2003

Yes, this was quite common - in Scotland it is the minister who is licensed not the premises so people could get married in a house - in my farming family they often got married in another family farm Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Campbell" <mary53@ntlworld.com> To: <SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 8:45 PM Subject: [Renfrew] Could you marry at home? > Hello List > I have some Scottish marriage cert's where the 'usual address' is the same > as in the column for 'When,Where and How married'. It also says in this > column 'after banns according to the forms of the Church of Scotland'. > Could people get married at home? I believe if you were housebound this was > allowed but these were not old or infirm but young people who went on to > have children. One address is 3 Silk Street, Paisley another one is 10 Old > Sneddon. I know these are not religious buildings so does anyone know if > this was legal? > Thankyou > Mary > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.490 / Virus Database: 289 - Release Date: 16/06/2003 > > ______________________________

Re " Blood, Worth Bottling" Yer Right There, Hen ! "The containers" may come in many funny wee shapes and sizes and you'll find them all over the World, but their blood was "most defiantly worth bottling ! " No matter how much of it was spilt ! ( and it's very hard to water it down !) I suppose, the Best Malt will only ever run a close second to their greatest exports ! Bless Yer Wee Paisley Socks, & Watch out for that English Rugby Team ! Hoo Roo the noo, Jim From: MoiraC40@aol.com Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Apologies etcetera Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 04:02:51 EDT Seems to be a goodly number of Fine..Big...Men in Australia presently. Consequently am proud to be a member of this List.....Well seeing they may be of good Scottish stock and/or interests?????? ........ ;-) As one of them said to me recently...." your blood should be bottled" (I repeat it to you and agree......wherever it comes from it's good stuff !!!!!).......... Blessings all round!!!!!! ........... Moira

Thankyou very much Mark --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.490 / Virus Database: 289 - Release Date: 16/06/2003

Mary, IT is actually a fairly modern idea for all Scots to marry in either a church or Registrar's office. In fact a great many weddings in Scotland still take place outwith either a church or registrar's office, but such weddings can only be performed by a recognised Minister of Religion and indeed I believe at one time only by the Parish Minister, i.e. the Minister of the Church of Scotland in whose parish the wedding was to take place. Until 1977 all weddings were the subject of the reading of the banns for the 3 consecutive Sunday's before the wedding so people could alert the Minister if a just impediment existed but weddings were very often conducted in the home of the bride and sometimes of the groom. Remember days off and holidays are really a post WWI phenomena for the working class who existed in very harsh working regimes prior to then and the rise of the Trade Union movement. That is why so many people married on 31st December or at Christmas (in England) because often that was the only day's holiday they got during the year. The other thing to notice is how often the bride and groom appeared to be living at the same address. The idea of virgin brides is a Victorian fantasy. Only the very rich could afford divorce and as the principal reason for marriage was to have children, couples would often have long courtships and then as soon as the bride got pregnant, get married immediately. If the couple got the timing wrong, rather than face the ignominy of being dragged before the Congregation and Kirk Session to confess their fornication, they could claim that they had entered into an irregular marriage and the Minister and Kirk Session would then go through the formality of recognising the marriage and taking the appropriate fee. Hypocrisy both in society and in the wider church is not a new notion!! Hope this helps, Cheers Mark John M Sutherland-Fisher Fellow of the Institute for Independent Business Director: Cadboll Business Consultancy Ltd* (Legal, Corporate, Employment and H.R. Consultancy Practice) Director: Fisher (Holiday Enterprises) Ltd* (Bespoke Guided Tours, Genealogy, Family History and Holiday Experiences) Past President and Genealogist: Clan Sutherland Co-Genealogist: Clan Mackenzie web-site: www.highland-family-heritage.co.uk Company Secretary: EMarketing-Associates Ltd; Winning Edge Business Consultancy Ltd*; Kacey Ltd*; NetMedia Business Solutions Ltd*; Pure Tanning Ltd*; Eligo Recruitment Ltd; Newmore Investments Ltd*; In-Haus Eyemagination Ltd*; Mortgage Workshop Ltd*; Zest For Life (Scotland) Ltd*; Black Isle Recycling and Distribution Services Ltd*; Allstrat Ltd*; Excedo Software Ltd* Registered Office of Companies with a *: North Cadboll House, North Cadboll, Fearn by Tain, Ross-shire. IV20 1TN e-mail: mark@highland-family-heritage.co.uk telephone and fax: 01862 871877 mobile: -----Original Message----- From: Mary Campbell [mailto:mary53@ntlworld.com] Sent: 19 June 2003 20:45 To: SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Renfrew] Could you marry at home? Hello List I have some Scottish marriage cert's where the 'usual address' is the same as in the column for 'When,Where and How married'. It also says in this column 'after banns according to the forms of the Church of Scotland'. Could people get married at home? I believe if you were housebound this was allowed but these were not old or infirm but young people who went on to have children. One address is 3 Silk Street, Paisley another one is 10 Old Sneddon. I know these are not religious buildings so does anyone know if this was legal? Thankyou Mary --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.490 / Virus Database: 289 - Release Date: 16/06/2003 ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== ********************************************************************** The Renfrewshire GenWeb page is at http://www.rootsweb.com/~sctrfw/