Christine , I would be happy to scan the picture for you but I will need your home email address as attachments won't get thru to List. Irene NZ ps. My furtherest back Sweenie is spelt Swainie He is an Edward , then David but changed to Sweenie, then James then David my grandfather.

I have a copy of 'Paisley - A History' by Sylvia Clark. Published on the occasion of the 500th anniversary of the Burgh Charter of Paisley in 1988. No mention of Swan, Sir Michael Street or Bakeries in the index I'm afraid. Best wishes Janet Connochie Christchurch, NZ

Hi These are details of marriages at Port Glasgow. Married at Port Glasgow 14th April 1846 by Rev. George Moffat. Samuel Anderson, Sugarbaker & Jane Kennedy both residing in Port Glasgow were Booked in order to proclamation for Marriage (2) Daniel M Cobb, Sawyer & Elizabeth Muir both residing in Port Glasgow were Booked in order to proclamation for Marriage (3) Francis Leadly, Labourer & Susana Shields both residing in Port Glasgow were Booked in order to proclamation for Marriage. (3) 17th April. Patrick Deery, Weaver & Catherine Forrester both residing in Port Glasgow Booked in order to proclamation for Marriage (3days) Robert Dick, Ropemaker & Susan M Hutchinson both residing in Port Glasgow were Booked in order to proclamation for Marriage (2 days) Married at Greenock 1st ?June 1846 by the Rev. ... unable to read it. These entries were part of the sheet sent to me regarding the marriage of Frederick Stout and Elizabeth Barber. Hope that they are of use to someone. Regards Freda Good Malvern, Worcs. Eng.

hello, My great grandfather Alexander MacPHEE is found on the on the 1891 UK Census (Northumberland) and noted as having been born in Refrewshire circa 1854. This is the only notation I have found as to where in Scotland he could have been born. Alexander MacPHEE noted his father also as Alexander MacPHEE (deceased), profession 'surfaceman' on his marriage to Mary Elizabeth HILL on Feb 5, 1886 in Tynemouth. Hugh MacPHEE (a brother?) witnessed the marriage. The younger Alexander MacPhee and Mary Elizabeth HILL had at least 6 children born in Northumberland: Alexander b. 1887, John b. 1889, Jane b. 1891, Norman b. 1892, Hugh Hill b. 1895 and Cecil b. 1897. I have found the younger Alex. in the 1881 & 1901 Census in Northumberland, both times noted as a 'pawnbroker', born in Scotland. Any help in finding this birth would be most appreciated. Jackie

Hi Irene, Thanks for contacting me. I don't think SWAN and SWEENIE are the same. At least, I haven't come across that name myself. My grandfather, when he came to England, apparently often found his name spelt either SWANN or SWAIN. His father James was the son David, the son of John and that far back I have found only the usual spelling. Is it possible you could scan that picture of the Bakery for me please? I have a picture of my grandfather driving the Paisley Cross tram in about 1915. Every Blessing, Christine -----Original Message----- From: Irene Polkinghorne [mailto:polk@ihug.co.nz] Sent: 27 June 2003 23:15 To: SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Paisley - a good book? Hi Christine, We have corresponded before, re Swan's Bakery in Paisley. re Picture found in one of my books. I am looking for SWEENIE's and wondered if there had been a spelling change. But my lot are of dates don't tied in with the last info yiu put on list. Names almost do. Without reading thru these , it must be one of two I have on Paisley. LET PAISLEY FLOURISH Published by Renfrew District Council ISBN 0 86122 008 0 Printed by J Thomson Coulour Printers Ltd or PICTORIAL HISTORY OF PAISLEY Complied by David Rowland Alloway Publishing ISBN 0 907526 55 1 Bought in Paisley 1998 Wonderful books full of Photos Irene in New Zealand PS: I now have a scanner.. ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== ********************************************************************** The Renfrewshire GenWeb page is at http://www.rootsweb.com/~sctrfw/

Hi Christine, We have corresponded before, re Swan's Bakery in Paisley. re Picture found in one of my books. I am looking for SWEENIE's and wondered if there had been a spelling change. But my lot are of dates don't tied in with the last info yiu put on list. Names almost do. Without reading thru these , it must be one of two I have on Paisley. LET PAISLEY FLOURISH Published by Renfrew District Council ISBN 0 86122 008 0 Printed by J Thomson Coulour Printers Ltd or PICTORIAL HISTORY OF PAISLEY Complied by David Rowland Alloway Publishing ISBN 0 907526 55 1 Bought in Paisley 1998 Wonderful books full of Photos Irene in New Zealand PS: I now have a scanner..

Hi! My grandparents were young & not married to each other at the time of my mother's birth, in fact my grandfather never did marry. For the first 20 years of my life I didn't even know his name, then through relatives, I learned it was Malcolm MacKellar. Now, it seems, he may have been no MacKellar at all, as his own father (also named Malcolm MacKellar) seems to have been born an Arbuckle. The story given to family, by Malcolm (Sr.), was that he was a "foundling" child having been "left on a doorstep in Glasgow". Even so, he was quite sure his birth date was Feb. 14, 1859. Malcolm was raised in Cairnbaan, Argyll by some aged relatives, but had some connection to the Greenock/Paisley area, going for visits there on holidays, as did his own offspring later. Until WW1, his children visited an Aunt Peggy & an Aunt Isa there, but then these 2 women emigrated - 1 to the U.S. & 1 to Australia. Some of us have come to believe that Malcolm MacKellar was probably an "illegitimate" child of an Arbuckle girl, sent away to live with family in Argyllshire, to avoid shame. Why Arbuckle? Because this name recently came to light & coincidently, there was indeed a Malcolm Arbuckle born in 1859, in Greenock (West), entry #788 on the register - this from a cousin of mine, in England. Has anyone out there got any similar people in their family tree? Or has anyone got access! to further info. on this birth, perhaps parents for Malcolm? I would be glad to hear from anyone. Thanks! Mary in Canada

Freda, I am not surprised to hear that you got only the names of the bride and groom in the OPR (Old Parish Register). That is usually all the Session Clerk included, unless you were "somebody". If one of the couple was from a different parish, that is usually included and the grooms occupation. It isn't until 1855 when Statutory Registration started that you will have the parents names, father's occupation and whether they are still living or not. I have noticed that as you get closer to 1855, some of the Session Clerks did start including more information. There are many Session Clerks that my cousins and I would like to travel back in time and have a talk with. When dealing with the OPR's, especially if you have a lot of family in one Parish, it is less expensive to rent the film at your local LDS Family History Center. As I have the 1851 Renfrewshire Census index, I could check for Frederick and Elizabeth for you. That would let you know if they had any children (if found in Renfrewshire) and there is always a small chance that parents could be living with them or other family members. With the index information, you could then order in the microfilm of the census and see if Frederick's birth place is still given as Germany and you would be more likely to get more than just Scotland for Elizabeth's birthplace. Rarely will you find more than Scotland listed as a birthplace for someone enumerated in the census in England and visa versa. Julie Dufault Merrimack, New Hampshire, USA

Thank you -----Original Message----- From: MoiraC40@aol.com [mailto:MoiraC40@aol.com] Sent: 27 June 2003 18:53 To: SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Paisley - a good book? Christine, Have you tried Paisley's Local Government website... www.renfrewshire.gov.uk You may find it interesting ...eg Local Studies Library ( genealogy & Trades Directory, maps , some up to date photographs).....etc etc etc... Their workers are very helpful if you email them with a query or two. Good Luck, Moira C ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== ********************************************************************** The Renfrewshire Query board is at http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/Scotland/Renfrew

Thank you! I'll try them immediately! -----Original Message----- From: Janoch2000@aol.com [mailto:Janoch2000@aol.com] Sent: 27 June 2003 16:03 To: SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Renfrew] (Renfrew) Paisley- a good book Hi Christine, I bought some booklets from Stenlake Publishers, they have three or four on Paisley with some good photographs. Find them at; <A HREF="www.stenlake.co.uk">www.stenlake.co.uk</A> Happy Hunting Kind Regards Jeanette(from Pitlochry) ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== ********************************************************************** The Renfrewshire Query board is at http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/Scotland/Renfrew

Please can anyone recommend a good book (with pictures) about old Paisley? My family were baker's in Sir Michael Street and I wonder whether any pictures exist of either the shop or the Swan family? Every Blessing, Christine

Hi I am new to this list and looking for any information regading FREDERICK STOUT. I recently found that my ancestor FREDERICK STOUT married ELIZABETH BARBER in PORT GLASGOW on 16th May 1846. Not having any idea of the name of his parents I sent for a copy of the marriage certificate hoping that it would have some extra information enabling me to proceed my research. On receiving the certificate I was very disappointed to find that it was only one of several entries on a sheet giving only their names. This being my first taste of Scottish ancestory I am not familiar with the differences in procedures. How does one go about finding out names of parents, addresses living at, at the time of the marriage, name of the church etc? On the 1881 Census Frederick (known as Christian Frederick) 52 years was living with his Wife Elizabeth and family in Everton, Lancashire. Frederick's place of birth was stated as (British Subject), Germany, Elizabeth Stout (nee Barber) 52 years, place of birth just states Scotland. There are five other pairs of names on the sheet - would it be useful for these names to be posted on The List? Many thanks Freda Good Malvern, Worcs. Eng.

Christine, Have you tried Paisley's Local Government website... www.renfrewshire.gov.uk You may find it interesting ...eg Local Studies Library ( genealogy & Trades Directory, maps , some up to date photographs).....etc etc etc... Their workers are very helpful if you email them with a query or two. Good Luck, Moira C

Hi Christine, I bought some booklets from Stenlake Publishers, they have three or four on Paisley with some good photographs. Find them at; <A HREF="www.stenlake.co.uk">www.stenlake.co.uk</A> Happy Hunting Kind Regards Jeanette(from Pitlochry)

I would check the 1841, 51,61 & 71 Census, Port Glasgow, for both. One or more parents could turn up living with them. Yes, please post the other names on the sheet to the list. Linda Egan Flynn MCIVOR & HARKIN, Port Glasgow

There is another wee girl on the 1881 census who is enumerated twice. First as staying with her grandparents and also at home with her parents - one of mine. Not as if the girl went out to play and gran lived next door. Gran was s in Govan at the time and mum and dad lived in Coatbridge - quite a distance! Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Campbell" <mary53@ntlworld.com> To: <SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 8:38 PM Subject: [Renfrew] TODD 1881 census > Hello List > I have found Marion TODD on the 1881 census which I think is my ancestor. > Born on Islay but they have her name as Mirren not Marion. All other info > about husband and children match. The ages are also correct but there is a > daughter Catherine age 10 years. Now, I had already found Catherine living > with her grandfather in Back Sneddon so I am wondering - am I in the wrong > family or could they have put Catherine down by mistake? > Is it possible they put all family members down even though she wasn't in > the house? It is unlikely they had 2 daughters called Catherine. Any advice > greatly received > > Mary > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 18/06/2003 > > > ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************** > The Renfrewshire Query board is at > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/Scotland/Renfrew > >

Hello List Thankyou to Moira and Jackie for their thoughts. I am almost sure I have the correct family so maybe Moira is right, if the enumerator asked "Who lives here?" they would naturally include all children. I have another question about the census. John SWEENEY was an inmate at Gilmour Street County Prison. Does anyone know anything about this prison? Was it a small gaol? I was wondering if it was a police station, could he be in there for drunk and disorderly or something minor. If it was a large prison then obviously his 'crime' was more serious. Not too serious as in 1891 I found him living at 10 Old Sneddon, married with children. Thankyou in advance Mary Campbell --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 18/06/2003

Hi Mary, I have found an individual listed in two places on a census - it was the Canadian 1901 census complete with date of birth so I am sure it is the same individual. I guess people make mistakes whether the enumerator asking slightly the wrong question (who lives here?) or filling in entries in villages where he knows every soul and not actually checking who is away that night, or householders giving inaccurate information. If you think about it I am supprised there are so few duplicate entries but I suppose we lead more boring lives than we'd like to think! Anyhow I'd not view a double entry as absolute proof there were two people with the same name, though if granny in Back Sneddon was a Catherine I'd be wary that the one there was a cousin as a result of the Scotish naming patterns. Moira : . Now, I had already found Catherine living > with her grandfather in Back Sneddon so I am wondering - am I in the wrong > family or could they have put Catherine down by mistake? > Is it possible they put all family members down even though she wasn't in > the house? It is unlikely they had 2 daughters called Catherine. > > Mary > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 18/06/2003 > > > ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************** > The Renfrewshire Query board is at > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/Scotland/Renfrew > > >

Hello List I have found Marion TODD on the 1881 census which I think is my ancestor. Born on Islay but they have her name as Mirren not Marion. All other info about husband and children match. The ages are also correct but there is a daughter Catherine age 10 years. Now, I had already found Catherine living with her grandfather in Back Sneddon so I am wondering - am I in the wrong family or could they have put Catherine down by mistake? Is it possible they put all family members down even though she wasn't in the house? It is unlikely they had 2 daughters called Catherine. Any advice greatly received Mary --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 18/06/2003

Hi Mary, I think it is possible. I have family on Back Sneddon in 1881 and they erroniously called my grgrgrandmother Catherine, not by her real name which was Janet. That error (on the census takers part), sent me on a 2 year wild goose chase looking for Janet's death before 1881 and another marriage to a Catherine for my grgrgrandfather William. I later discovered JANET's death certificate in 1891. So yes they made naming errors! Also, I have found many times, in a single household, more than one child with the same name. Some people did name their kids the same name. Other times, I have found that one of the "same name" children, was actually a grandson/daughter (the ones I found were illegitimate and staying with the grandparents...who knows if the census taker just assumed that they were the grandparents own children). And a few times they were actually neices/nephews etc., just mislabeled on the census as the head of household's children. Also, I just bet, someone was listed at two addresses accidentally. Confusing huh? Hope this helps. Jackie Scottsdale, Arizona USA From: "Mary Campbell" <mary53@ntlworld.com> Subject: [Renfrew] TODD 1881 census > Hello List > I have found Marion TODD on the 1881 census which I think is my ancestor. > Born on Islay but they have her name as Mirren not Marion. All other info > about husband and children match. The ages are also correct but there is a > daughter Catherine age 10 years. Now, I had already found Catherine living > with her grandfather in Back Sneddon so I am wondering - am I in the wrong > family or could they have put Catherine down by mistake? > Is it possible they put all family members down even though she wasn't in > the house? It is unlikely they had 2 daughters called Catherine. Any advice > greatly received > > Mary