Hi, Ann (or Nan or Nancy) My mother was an Agnes called Nancy, too. Her family called her Aggie and I think she moved to Canada to get away from it. :-) Today we pronounce Agnes as Agg Niss, more or less how it is spelled. When it first became popular in Scotland it was a French name and was pronounced Anyes. You sometimes find it spelled Annis. Since names starting with a vowel often add N for their pet form (like Ann-->Nan) you would get Annis-->Nannis-->Nance, and then a diminutive with -y -->Nancy. Jim Polson > My mother was an Agnes and called Nancy most of her life. And a grandmother > called Margaret was apparently calle Maggie or Meg as a child and Peg or > Peggie after she married. I`ve always presumed Nancy was a nickname - > somehow - for Agnes.

Isn't Jock a version of Jack which then becomes John? My grandfather was a John Lyle and all the above were used when talking with him and he was from Greenock. At 03:55 AM 2003-07-12 -0600, you wrote: >No Humes seem to have a name which could become Jock. Regards David B. Lyle

Hi Jane Here are the Hume's on the East Renfrew 1851 census To save time I have listed them grouped by forename where there is more than one with the same name, with Age, Parish, District, Book, Page, Line Adam, 9, Neilston, 451, 4, 33, 6 Alexander, 17, Neilston, 453, 14, 35, 7 Alison, 15, Cathcart, 459, 2, 4, 2 Catherine 21, Neilston, 453, 13, 6, 5 38, Neilston, 451, 4, 33, 3 1, Neilston, 451, 4, 33, 9 22, Paisley, 466, 3, 21, 6 Charles, 56, Abbey, 474, 17, 11, 20 David, 40, Neilston, 451, 4, 33, 2 Elizabeth, 14, Abbey, 474, 17, 12, 2 Fanny, 12, Abbey, 474, 17, 12, 3 James, 5, Neilston, 451, 4, 33, 8 Jane 44, Abbey, 474, 17, 12, 1 17, Neilston, 451, 4, 33, 4 58, Paisley. 466, 4, 3, 18 John 7, Neilston, 451, 4, 33, 7 Joseph, 7, Neilston, 453, 14, 35, 9 Marion, 10, Neilston, 453, 14, 35, 8 Mary, 64, Abbey, 474, 17, 14, 20 Robert 58, Paisley, 466, 4, 3, 17 21, Paisley. 466, 4, 3, 19 William 45, Neilston, 453, 14, 35, 5 12, Neilston, 451, 4, 33, 5 Hope these help Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------- FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! Download Spam Inspector, the Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter http://mail.giantcompany.com

My mother was an Agnes and called Nancy most of her life. And a grandmother called Margaret was apparently calle Maggie or Meg as a child and Peg or Peggie after she married. I`ve always presumed Nancy was a nickname - somehow - for Agnes. Anne > Hi, > > I agree with the list members' versions of where Jock comes from. Not everybody on this side of the water (Canada) realises too, that men called Sandy are actually born Alexander, at least in Scotland. I only recently learned that Nancy can be "short" for Ann. But can anybody out there explain to me why Peggy is short for Margaret? > > Mary > born Glasgow > living in Canada >

Mary Dolly is sometimes used for Dorothy in Scotland best wishes Penny

Hi again everyone, Yes, Jim, I'll buy that. That's the most sense I've heard made from the Margaret/Peggy thing. I was mostly asking on behalf of my 6 year old daughter, who (in a classroom full of Ashleys, Brittanys & Courtneys) is named Margaret - no short form yet - just Margaret. She loves her "antique" name. She knows it comes from her GGGGrandmother, Margaret McGregor & that she shares it with several other female descendants of subsequent generations. I was the eldest child in my family. My younger siblings (Catherine, James & who else? - Margaret!) as you suggested, couldn't say "Mary" right away. I was "Mamie" to each one in turn. But it didn't stick. But I have a cousin, Mamie McInnis, on whom it did! Any ideas on "Dolly"? I have an elusive relative, Dolly Johnstone, who went to NZ after WW1, but no one recalls her true given name. It wasn't Margaret, Sarah or Catherine - these were her sisters. Her mother was Agnes. Maybe it was just a nickname in it's own right. Mary

While we are on this name topic Would it make sense to call someone named Lydia Jane, Nettie Jane? Perhaps it came about by way of younger siblings unable to pronounce Lydia? Ginny

Hi, Mary (or May, Molly, or Polly) You were asking about Peggy and Margaret. When you're talking about informal versions of first names, you have to remember that pet names almost always come from childhood. Children have difficulty with certain sounds and we often simplify things to make it easier for them. Or we latch on to the forms the children use and start using them ourselves. The easiest consonant sounds for children are the ones made with the lips rather than the tongue--that is, M, P, & B. That's why a baby's first words are usually Mama or Papa and Baby--they're the easiest combination to master. This is true for many languages.( I might also mention W, which is a lip sound too, but the only example I can think of for names is Will, which becomes Bill.) The M sound is made by closing the lips and letting the sound out through the nose. If you don't do the nasal sound, but just open and close the lips, you get P. This is why so many first names that start with M end up with a pet name that starts with P. That's what a child will often come up with on a first attempt. On the other hand, R, L, and N are far more difficult--even for some adults. They are all made with the tongue in a similar position. The result seems to be that these sounds are often switched. If you look at the words "Caribbean", "Caliban", and "cannibal" all come from the same root--you can see the R, L, & N being switched. Now look at Henry, Harry, & Hal--same thing. Also Mary & Molly (which from what I mentioned before, can become Polly), and Sarah & Sally. Another thing to notice is that names that begin with a vowel often add an N, so Noll=Oliver, Nan=Ann, Ned=Edward, Nell=Eleanor or more often, Helen. So you see, Peggy is simple. :-) Margaret-->Meg-->Peg. Now if someone could explain to me why modern parents seem to be naming their little girls after cocktail waitresses??? Jim Polson Vancouver (on your side of the water) > I agree with the list members' versions of where Jock comes from. Not everybody on this side of the water (Canada) realises too, that men called Sandy are actually born Alexander, at least in Scotland. I only recently learned that Nancy can be "short" for Ann. But can anybody out there explain to me why Peggy is short for Margaret?

Hi, I agree with the list members' versions of where Jock comes from. Not everybody on this side of the water (Canada) realises too, that men called Sandy are actually born Alexander, at least in Scotland. I only recently learned that Nancy can be "short" for Ann. But can anybody out there explain to me why Peggy is short for Margaret? Mary born Glasgow living in Canada

In a message dated 7/12/03 7:14:00 PM Central Daylight Time, d.jlyle@net1.nw.com.au writes: > Isn't Jock a version of Jack which then becomes John? > My grandfather was a John Lyle and all the above were used when talking > with him and he was from Greenock. > Yes, it's related to Jacques, the French version thereof. My hubby is named John and goes by Jock; his grandfather was from Greenock. When we visited there, however, we were told it was slang for a Scottish man. My hubby also had an uncle named Thomas who was from Scotland but lived in Venezuela. Because he was from Scotland, he too was dubbed "Jock," a name which stuck the rest of his life, even after he moved back to Scotland. Sue McLean

Please reply to the list as I would like to know as well Rosemarie from sunny [sometimes ] Queensland Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "David & Joy Lyle" <d.jlyle@net1.nw.com.au> To: <SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 7:35 AM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] 1851 Census Microfiche > Michael, > > Can you please tell me where I can purchase the Renfrew Census Microfiche > and the approximate cost. > > > Regards > > David B. Lyle > > > ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************** > The Renfrewshire GenWeb page is at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~sctrfw/ >

Dear listers, iam still trying to find out about Marie Anckieson, she was 1 month old when the 1881 census was done. She was at her grandfathers Humphry Fleming,my great grandfather and the address was 19 Ingleston street Renfrew, i have know idea who her parents were. If anyone out there could help me solve this problem, theres a big thank you. Yours Roberta Fleming (robbie) robbiefleming63@hotmail.com Image by FlamingText.com _________________________________________________________________ Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=174&referral=Hotmail_taglines_plain&URL=http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp

Hi Anne Search on "GOOGLE" made a lot of hits re Microfiche Viewers for sale. Our FHC has quite a few lying around,which I'm fixing up when I have the time on my volunteer day,(which is rarely) Maybe your local FHC has a few spares that they would sell. Of course that doesn't help you,your best bet may be checking online for a Scottish supplier. Also if there are Post Office or Company sales of old equipment,you might find one there. Or how about the "BARRAS" ?? :-). Cheers Frank McGonigal Ont Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Pryce" <annepryce@ntlworld.com> To: <SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] 1851 Census Microfiche > From time to time I`ve looked at the possibility of buying various fiches. > But I don`t own a machine for looking at them. > Can anyone give a clue how one might obtain such a thing and if they are > expensive? > Anne > > > > Hi David > > I can't remember whether I bought these from > > http://www.scotsgenealogy.com/ > > > > or > > http://www.gwsfhs.org.uk/ > > both are priced at £21.00 for the two sets of fiches (15 fiche for East > > Renfrewshire, 10 for West) > > > > Mike > > > > > > ==== SCT-RENFREW Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************** > The Renfrewshire GENUKI page is at > http://www.skylinc.net/~lasmith/genuki/RFW/ >

Donna, many thanks, I will get these listed on my "favorite places"- Again, thank you. Juanita

From time to time I`ve looked at the possibility of buying various fiches. But I don`t own a machine for looking at them. Can anyone give a clue how one might obtain such a thing and if they are expensive? Anne > Hi David > I can't remember whether I bought these from > http://www.scotsgenealogy.com/ > > or > http://www.gwsfhs.org.uk/ > both are priced at £21.00 for the two sets of fiches (15 fiche for East > Renfrewshire, 10 for West) > > Mike >

Hello Mike, Yes I would like very much to see the rest of them.Thank You, Jane USA

Robbie wrote, " I am still trying to find out about Marie Anckieson, she was 1 month old when the 1881 census was done. She was at her grandfathers Humphry Fleming, my great grandfather and the address was 19 Ingleston street Renfrew, I have no idea who her parents were. Seems to me you have all the information you need to obtain Marie's birth certificate, which will give you all the information you need, and more. Brian

Sorry - just found the entry you where speaking of Anne > > Dear listers, > iam still trying to find out about Marie Anckieson, she was 1 month old when > the 1881 census was done. She was at her grandfathers Humphry Fleming,my > great grandfather and the address was 19 Ingleston street Renfrew, i have > know idea who her parents were. If anyone out there could help me solve this > problem, theres a big thank you. > Yours Roberta Fleming (robbie) > robbiefleming63@hotmail.com > >

I just looked out of curiousity for your Humphry Fleming on the 1881 census and don`t see him - only two Humphrey Fleming`s come up - none in Renfrew and none with grandchildren present. I did wonder if Ankieson should really be Anderson perhaps and finding a marriage between a Fleming female and Ankieson male pre 1881 might point you in the right direction. Anne > > Dear listers, > iam still trying to find out about Marie Anckieson, she was 1 month old when > the 1881 census was done. She was at her grandfathers Humphry Fleming,my > great grandfather and the address was 19 Ingleston street Renfrew, i have > know idea who her parents were. If anyone out there could help me solve this > problem, theres a big thank you. > Yours Roberta Fleming (robbie) > robbiefleming63@hotmail.com >

Hello the list, I must unreservedly apologise to the Glasgow and West. Scotland family History Society, I mis quoted them for the above the price is around £21 Charles-David