Hi Wayne, From memory, the 2 firms amalgamated in the early 20th century, but a Google search can probably turn up precise info. However, the names of the original firms and their logos have been preserved for branding and trade mark reasons ever since, so I doubt very much whether your threads are antiques. Clark had an anchor as its logo, and its threads were made at Anchor Mills in the centre of Paisley. Coats had their mill at Ferguslie, in Paisley's west end, and their insignia was a looped chain. These logos were used world-wide. Both mills are now gone, although some of the old buildings have been converted for other uses. Indeed, Coats do not manufacture thread in the UK at all now. It's all imported from Germany. Regards, Ken Mathieson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne R Abel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 1:35 AM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > And I bet we have all gone diving for our sewing boxes,!! I did, straight > into the model 66 Singer sewing machine(treadle), still in working order > with all attachments,and found one reel of Clark & Co and two of J &P Coats > Ltd. So I take it from these, that this would have been before the > amalgamation???Interesting. > Wayne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roxanne Neel" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 1:15 AM > Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > > > > Ken ~ Oh my goodness, I still have spools of Coats & Clarks thread from > > years ago when I used to sew! I assumed it was made in America... > > Thank you for the information! > > Roxanne Neel > > Cedarpines Park, California, USA > > > > > > Ken Mathieson wrote: > > > >>Hi Heather, > >> > >>The connection between Paisley and Guadalajara is that Paisley was once > >>the > >>World's leading town for the manufacture of sewing thread. There were 2 > >>huge > >>family businesses, the Clarks and the Coats, which eventually merged as > >>United Thread Mills Ltd, a subsidiary of J & P Coats Ltd, which is now > >>part > >>of the Coats Viyella Tootal group. By the end of the 19th century, lots of > >>countries were erecting tariff barriers to limit imports and foster local > >>industry. Mexico was one such, and one of the Paisley companies set up a > >>mill there (I'm not sure which), but in the 1960s & 70s when I worked for > >>Coats, they had a mill in Guadalajara and another in Mexico City, as well > >>as > >>in countless other places around the world. Some googling should yield > >>further info. > >> > >>I hope this helps, > >> > >>Ken Mathieson, > >>Uddingston SCT > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Mariposa Obsidian" <[email protected]> > >>To: <[email protected]> > >>Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:28 PM > >>Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Muir, jamison, Orr > >> > >> > >> > >>>Hi: Could someone place look ont the early census for me (Paisley) and > >>> > >>see if you can find the families of: > >> > >>> Joseph Johnston (b. 1832 in Paisley, Scotland) > >>> Jean Young (b. 1838 in Paisley, Scotland). > >>> > >>> They both died in 1896 in Guadalajara Mexico. > >>> > >>> I am trying to research the family and find out how they ended up in > >>> > >>Guadalajara of all places! > >> > >>> Thanks! > >>> > >>> Heather Hess nee Wilson > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Cualli Tonalli! > >>>Mariposita Obsidiana, P.A. > >>> > >>>http://www.thelensflare.com/u_mariposa.php > >>>http://mariposadreaming.blogspot.com/ > >>> > >>>"I am an amateur and I intend to stay that way for the rest of my > >>>life." - > >>> > >>Andre Kertesz, Hungary, 1930 > >> > >>>--------------------------------- > >>>Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >

Another little tidbit regarding this Coats & Clarks thread: While searching the 1881 Census for Alexander STENHOUSE, a 3rd cousin - 3 times removed, I found he was a gardener employed by Thomas COATS. Below is the Census for Thomas indicating that at time he employed 480 Males and 1920 Females. It does not list the names but a check of the neighbours shows many of them employed as Thread Millworkers or cotton weavers. Cheers, San-Dee Stanners Lyons * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dwelling: Ferguslie House Census Place: Abbey, Renfrew, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203585 GRO Ref Volume 573 EnumDist 105 Page 17 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Thomas COATS M 71 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Thread Manufactuer (Employing 480 Males & 1920 Females) Margaret COATS M 61 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Wife James COATS U 39 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Thread Manufacturer Janet COATS U 37 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Margaret COATS U 23 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Jeanie COATS U 21 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Andrew COATS U 18 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Clerk Lilian COATS U 15 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Margaret C. GREGORY U 38 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Serv Occ: Table Maid (Domestic) Ann R. MAIR W 60 F Kilmuir, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland Rel: Serv Occ: Cook (Domestic) Catharine MARSHAL U 30 F Grangemouth, Stirling, Scotland Rel: Serv Occ: Housemaid (Domestic) Jessie SCOTT U 32 F Stobo, Perth, Scotland Rel: Serv Occ: Housemaid (Domestic) Dwelling: Ferguslie Garde Lodge Census Place: Abbey, Renfrew, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203585 GRO Ref Volume 573 EnumDist 105 Page 17 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Alexander STENHOUSE U 26 M Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland Rel: Serv (Head) Occ: Under Gardener John MC ALISTER U 20 M Skipness, Argyll, Scotland Rel: Serv Occ: Under Gardener John MC INNES U 48 M Ardrossan, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Serv Occ: Under Gardener ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mariposa Obsidian" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 4:49 PM Subject: RE: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > Hi: Wow - I didn't expect to get this much info. Did anyone else have family go to Mexico to work in the Coats & Clark factory? > > Heather > > > David Rorer <[email protected]> wrote: It's funny that the name Viyella should come up. My second great uncle Alexander > James McNab was one of the principles in developing the practical manufacture of > the thread called Viyella, in his mill at 171 Boden Street Glasgow. This > building still existed as late as the 1970's and in fact I've looked at the > aerial photos in Google Earth and it still appears to be there. > Part of the story is quoted below. > > David Rorer > > Renison McNab & Co., Powerloom Cloth Manufacturers of Glasgow > In 1863 Alexander James McNab and William Renison founded Renison McNab & Co., > Powerloom Cloth Manufacturers, on Hosier Street, in the Bridgeton district of > Glasgow. Later they appear to have built a new building at 140 Boden St. > Renison McNab & Co specialized in weaving cloth on commission, utilizing power > driven looms. One of their yarn suppliers was William Hollins & Company, Ltd of > Derby, England, which had developed a specialty yarn known as Viyella. Unlike > other yarns, Viyella was not made of a single fiber, but was a combination of > wool and cotton fibers. Renison McNab & Co was one of the firms called upon to > solve the problem of weaving this yarn into cloth. > The problem with combining wool and cotton fibers in the same yarn is that > different sizings were normally used for these fibers. The trick to successfully > weaving the mixed fiber yarn was finding a sizing that would work well with both > cotton and wool. Renison McNab & Co was one of the first mills to solve this > problem and satisfactorily weave it into cloth for Hollins. Eventually, in order > to ensure the quality of the cloth woven from it's yarn; Hollins purchased the > Boden St Mill, in 1900, from Alexander McNab who by then was operating it as a > sole proprietor. > The mill was taken into the Hollins organization and there cloth was > manufactured for the company for over three quarters of the 20th century. The > Alexander McNab name was continued as the distributor of unbranded cloth on a > wholesale basis until at least the 1950's. > > > > >> > > >>The connection between Paisley and Guadalajara is that Paisley was once > > >>the > > >>World's leading town for the manufacture of sewing thread. There were 2 > > >>huge > > >>family businesses, the Clarks and the Coats, which eventually merged as > > >>United Thread Mills Ltd, a subsidiary of J & P Coats Ltd, which is now > > >>part > > >>of the Coats Viyella Tootal group. By the end of the 19th century, lots of > > >>countries were erecting tariff barriers to limit imports and foster local > > >>industry. Mexico was one such, and one of the Paisley companies set up a > > >>mill there (I'm not sure which), but in the 1960s & 70s when I worked for > > >>Coats, they had a mill in Guadalajara and another in Mexico City, as well > > >>as > > >>in countless other places around the world. Some googling should yield > > >>further info. > > >> > > >>I hope this helps, > > >> > > >>Ken Mathieson, > > >>Uddingston SCT > > > > > > > Cualli Tonalli! > Mariposita Obsidiana, P.A. > > http://www.thelensflare.com/u_mariposa.php > http://mariposadreaming.blogspot.com/ > > "I am an amateur and I intend to stay that way for the rest of my life." - Andre Kertesz, Hungary, 1930 > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. >

how does one go about finding out if ones ancestor was an employee of this company thanks Michele --- Mariposa Obsidian <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi: Wow - I didn't expect to get this much info. > Did anyone else have family go to Mexico to work in > the Coats & Clark factory? > > Heather > > > David Rorer <[email protected]> wrote: It's funny > that the name Viyella should come up. My second > great uncle Alexander > James McNab was one of the principles in developing > the practical manufacture of > the thread called Viyella, in his mill at 171 Boden > Street Glasgow. This > building still existed as late as the 1970's and in > fact I've looked at the > aerial photos in Google Earth and it still appears > to be there. > Part of the story is quoted below. > > David Rorer > > Renison McNab & Co., Powerloom Cloth Manufacturers > of Glasgow > In 1863 Alexander James McNab and William Renison > founded Renison McNab & Co., > Powerloom Cloth Manufacturers, on Hosier Street, in > the Bridgeton district of > Glasgow. Later they appear to have built a new > building at 140 Boden St. > Renison McNab & Co specialized in weaving cloth on > commission, utilizing power > driven looms. One of their yarn suppliers was > William Hollins & Company, Ltd of > Derby, England, which had developed a specialty yarn > known as Viyella. Unlike > other yarns, Viyella was not made of a single fiber, > but was a combination of > wool and cotton fibers. Renison McNab & Co was one > of the firms called upon to > solve the problem of weaving this yarn into cloth. > The problem with combining wool and cotton fibers in > the same yarn is that > different sizings were normally used for these > fibers. The trick to successfully > weaving the mixed fiber yarn was finding a sizing > that would work well with both > cotton and wool. Renison McNab & Co was one of the > first mills to solve this > problem and satisfactorily weave it into cloth for > Hollins. Eventually, in order > to ensure the quality of the cloth woven from it's > yarn; Hollins purchased the > Boden St Mill, in 1900, from Alexander McNab who by > then was operating it as a > sole proprietor. > The mill was taken into the Hollins organization and > there cloth was > manufactured for the company for over three quarters > of the 20th century. The > Alexander McNab name was continued as the > distributor of unbranded cloth on a > wholesale basis until at least the 1950's. > > > > >> > > >>The connection between Paisley and Guadalajara > is that Paisley was once > > >>the > > >>World's leading town for the manufacture of > sewing thread. There were 2 > > >>huge > > >>family businesses, the Clarks and the Coats, > which eventually merged as > > >>United Thread Mills Ltd, a subsidiary of J & P > Coats Ltd, which is now > > >>part > > >>of the Coats Viyella Tootal group. By the end of > the 19th century, lots of > > >>countries were erecting tariff barriers to limit > imports and foster local > > >>industry. Mexico was one such, and one of the > Paisley companies set up a > > >>mill there (I'm not sure which), but in the > 1960s & 70s when I worked for > > >>Coats, they had a mill in Guadalajara and > another in Mexico City, as well > > >>as > > >>in countless other places around the world. Some > googling should yield > > >>further info. > > >> > > >>I hope this helps, > > >> > > >>Ken Mathieson, > > >>Uddingston SCT > > > > > > > Cualli Tonalli! > Mariposita Obsidiana, P.A. > > http://www.thelensflare.com/u_mariposa.php > http://mariposadreaming.blogspot.com/ > > "I am an amateur and I intend to stay that way for > the rest of my life." - Andre Kertesz, Hungary, > 1930 > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls > to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Hi: Wow - I didn't expect to get this much info. Did anyone else have family go to Mexico to work in the Coats & Clark factory? Heather David Rorer <[email protected]> wrote: It's funny that the name Viyella should come up. My second great uncle Alexander James McNab was one of the principles in developing the practical manufacture of the thread called Viyella, in his mill at 171 Boden Street Glasgow. This building still existed as late as the 1970's and in fact I've looked at the aerial photos in Google Earth and it still appears to be there. Part of the story is quoted below. David Rorer Renison McNab & Co., Powerloom Cloth Manufacturers of Glasgow In 1863 Alexander James McNab and William Renison founded Renison McNab & Co., Powerloom Cloth Manufacturers, on Hosier Street, in the Bridgeton district of Glasgow. Later they appear to have built a new building at 140 Boden St. Renison McNab & Co specialized in weaving cloth on commission, utilizing power driven looms. One of their yarn suppliers was William Hollins & Company, Ltd of Derby, England, which had developed a specialty yarn known as Viyella. Unlike other yarns, Viyella was not made of a single fiber, but was a combination of wool and cotton fibers. Renison McNab & Co was one of the firms called upon to solve the problem of weaving this yarn into cloth. The problem with combining wool and cotton fibers in the same yarn is that different sizings were normally used for these fibers. The trick to successfully weaving the mixed fiber yarn was finding a sizing that would work well with both cotton and wool. Renison McNab & Co was one of the first mills to solve this problem and satisfactorily weave it into cloth for Hollins. Eventually, in order to ensure the quality of the cloth woven from it's yarn; Hollins purchased the Boden St Mill, in 1900, from Alexander McNab who by then was operating it as a sole proprietor. The mill was taken into the Hollins organization and there cloth was manufactured for the company for over three quarters of the 20th century. The Alexander McNab name was continued as the distributor of unbranded cloth on a wholesale basis until at least the 1950's. > >> > >>The connection between Paisley and Guadalajara is that Paisley was once > >>the > >>World's leading town for the manufacture of sewing thread. There were 2 > >>huge > >>family businesses, the Clarks and the Coats, which eventually merged as > >>United Thread Mills Ltd, a subsidiary of J & P Coats Ltd, which is now > >>part > >>of the Coats Viyella Tootal group. By the end of the 19th century, lots of > >>countries were erecting tariff barriers to limit imports and foster local > >>industry. Mexico was one such, and one of the Paisley companies set up a > >>mill there (I'm not sure which), but in the 1960s & 70s when I worked for > >>Coats, they had a mill in Guadalajara and another in Mexico City, as well > >>as > >>in countless other places around the world. Some googling should yield > >>further info. > >> > >>I hope this helps, > >> > >>Ken Mathieson, > >>Uddingston SCT Cualli Tonalli! Mariposita Obsidiana, P.A. http://www.thelensflare.com/u_mariposa.php http://mariposadreaming.blogspot.com/ "I am an amateur and I intend to stay that way for the rest of my life." - Andre Kertesz, Hungary, 1930 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

It's funny that the name Viyella should come up. My second great uncle Alexander James McNab was one of the principles in developing the practical manufacture of the thread called Viyella, in his mill at 171 Boden Street Glasgow. This building still existed as late as the 1970's and in fact I've looked at the aerial photos in Google Earth and it still appears to be there. Part of the story is quoted below. David Rorer Renison McNab & Co., Powerloom Cloth Manufacturers of Glasgow In 1863 Alexander James McNab and William Renison founded Renison McNab & Co., Powerloom Cloth Manufacturers, on Hosier Street, in the Bridgeton district of Glasgow. Later they appear to have built a new building at 140 Boden St. Renison McNab & Co specialized in weaving cloth on commission, utilizing power driven looms. One of their yarn suppliers was William Hollins & Company, Ltd of Derby, England, which had developed a specialty yarn known as Viyella. Unlike other yarns, Viyella was not made of a single fiber, but was a combination of wool and cotton fibers. Renison McNab & Co was one of the firms called upon to solve the problem of weaving this yarn into cloth. The problem with combining wool and cotton fibers in the same yarn is that different sizings were normally used for these fibers. The trick to successfully weaving the mixed fiber yarn was finding a sizing that would work well with both cotton and wool. Renison McNab & Co was one of the first mills to solve this problem and satisfactorily weave it into cloth for Hollins. Eventually, in order to ensure the quality of the cloth woven from it's yarn; Hollins purchased the Boden St Mill, in 1900, from Alexander McNab who by then was operating it as a sole proprietor. The mill was taken into the Hollins organization and there cloth was manufactured for the company for over three quarters of the 20th century. The Alexander McNab name was continued as the distributor of unbranded cloth on a wholesale basis until at least the 1950's. > >> > >>The connection between Paisley and Guadalajara is that Paisley was once > >>the > >>World's leading town for the manufacture of sewing thread. There were 2 > >>huge > >>family businesses, the Clarks and the Coats, which eventually merged as > >>United Thread Mills Ltd, a subsidiary of J & P Coats Ltd, which is now > >>part > >>of the Coats Viyella Tootal group. By the end of the 19th century, lots of > >>countries were erecting tariff barriers to limit imports and foster local > >>industry. Mexico was one such, and one of the Paisley companies set up a > >>mill there (I'm not sure which), but in the 1960s & 70s when I worked for > >>Coats, they had a mill in Guadalajara and another in Mexico City, as well > >>as > >>in countless other places around the world. Some googling should yield > >>further info. > >> > >>I hope this helps, > >> > >>Ken Mathieson, > >>Uddingston SCT

My mother worked as young girl at the Coats mill in Paisley and we're now living in Australia. Sandy (Wagga x 2) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Mathieson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > Hi Nuala, > > You're spot on there about St Petersburg. Coats had the biggest thread mill > in the world there from the late 19th century up till the time of the > Russian Revolution, when it was nationalised without compensation. I vaguely > remember a complicated story about all the title deeds, trade marks etc > being spirited out of Russia by the Scottish managers in order to prove > ownership in the event of the Revolution failing. Ironically, after > Perestroika, the Russians asked Coats to provide technical expertise in > modernising their thread industry, and (again vaguely remembered) I think > some sort of a joint venture or partnership was formed, so Coats got back > into the Russian market after all those years. > > In the late 1920s or early 30s, Coats also bought a German thread group, Mez > AG of Freiburg im Breisgau, and with it came subsidiaries in Austria, > Czechoslovakia, Poland, Hungary, Yugoslavia and Romania, to add to their > existing operations in other European, Asian, North and South American > countries, so by the late 1930s they were truly a global group, and a very > successful one at that. When they set up a new factory it was common > practice to send a team of experts in every aspect of thread manufacturing, > marketing, administration etc to set up the operation train local staff, and > run the company. As a result, Paisley families dispersed all across the > globe, so don't be surprised at Scottish connections in the unlikeliest > places. > > Regards > > Ken Mathieson > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nuala Cockburn" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 7:23 PM > Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > > > > Another place Coats set up factories was St. Petersberg in Russia. My > > husband's adopted great aunt was sent there by the firm to teach the > Russian > > girls in the cotton mill in the latter part of the 19th Century. She then > > became a governess in the family of the Grand Duke of Mecklenberg Strelitz > > where she remained until her death in 1908, she was buried in the family > > cemetery there. > > > > Nuala > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Roxanne Neel" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 6:15 PM > > Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > > > > > > > Ken ~ Oh my goodness, I still have spools of Coats & Clarks thread from > > > years ago when I used to sew! I assumed it was made in America... > > > Thank you for the information! > > > Roxanne Neel > > > Cedarpines Park, California, USA > > > > > > > > > Ken Mathieson wrote: > > > > > >>Hi Heather, > > >> > > >>The connection between Paisley and Guadalajara is that Paisley was once > > >>the > > >>World's leading town for the manufacture of sewing thread. There were 2 > > >>huge > > >>family businesses, the Clarks and the Coats, which eventually merged as > > >>United Thread Mills Ltd, a subsidiary of J & P Coats Ltd, which is now > > >>part > > >>of the Coats Viyella Tootal group. By the end of the 19th century, lots > of > > >>countries were erecting tariff barriers to limit imports and foster > local > > >>industry. Mexico was one such, and one of the Paisley companies set up a > > >>mill there (I'm not sure which), but in the 1960s & 70s when I worked > for > > >>Coats, they had a mill in Guadalajara and another in Mexico City, as > well > > >>as > > >>in countless other places around the world. Some googling should yield > > >>further info. > > >> > > >>I hope this helps, > > >> > > >>Ken Mathieson, > > >>Uddingston SCT > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > >>From: "Mariposa Obsidian" <[email protected]> > > >>To: <[email protected]> > > >>Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:28 PM > > >>Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Muir, jamison, Orr > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>Hi: Could someone place look ont the early census for me (Paisley) and > > >>> > > >>see if you can find the families of: > > >> > > >>> Joseph Johnston (b. 1832 in Paisley, Scotland) > > >>> Jean Young (b. 1838 in Paisley, Scotland). > > >>> > > >>> They both died in 1896 in Guadalajara Mexico. > > >>> > > >>> I am trying to research the family and find out how they ended up in > > >>> > > >>Guadalajara of all places! > > >> > > >>> Thanks! > > >>> > > >>> Heather Hess nee Wilson > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>Cualli Tonalli! > > >>>Mariposita Obsidiana, P.A. > > >>> > > >>>http://www.thelensflare.com/u_mariposa.php > > >>>http://mariposadreaming.blogspot.com/ > > >>> > > >>>"I am an amateur and I intend to stay that way for the rest of my > > >>>life." - > > >>> > > >>Andre Kertesz, Hungary, 1930 > > >> > > >>>--------------------------------- > > >>>Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

And I bet we have all gone diving for our sewing boxes,!! I did, straight into the model 66 Singer sewing machine(treadle), still in working order with all attachments,and found one reel of Clark & Co and two of J &P Coats Ltd. So I take it from these, that this would have been before the amalgamation???Interesting. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roxanne Neel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > Ken ~ Oh my goodness, I still have spools of Coats & Clarks thread from > years ago when I used to sew! I assumed it was made in America... > Thank you for the information! > Roxanne Neel > Cedarpines Park, California, USA > > > Ken Mathieson wrote: > >>Hi Heather, >> >>The connection between Paisley and Guadalajara is that Paisley was once >>the >>World's leading town for the manufacture of sewing thread. There were 2 >>huge >>family businesses, the Clarks and the Coats, which eventually merged as >>United Thread Mills Ltd, a subsidiary of J & P Coats Ltd, which is now >>part >>of the Coats Viyella Tootal group. By the end of the 19th century, lots of >>countries were erecting tariff barriers to limit imports and foster local >>industry. Mexico was one such, and one of the Paisley companies set up a >>mill there (I'm not sure which), but in the 1960s & 70s when I worked for >>Coats, they had a mill in Guadalajara and another in Mexico City, as well >>as >>in countless other places around the world. Some googling should yield >>further info. >> >>I hope this helps, >> >>Ken Mathieson, >>Uddingston SCT >> >> >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Mariposa Obsidian" <[email protected]> >>To: <[email protected]> >>Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:28 PM >>Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Muir, jamison, Orr >> >> >> >>>Hi: Could someone place look ont the early census for me (Paisley) and >>> >>see if you can find the families of: >> >>> Joseph Johnston (b. 1832 in Paisley, Scotland) >>> Jean Young (b. 1838 in Paisley, Scotland). >>> >>> They both died in 1896 in Guadalajara Mexico. >>> >>> I am trying to research the family and find out how they ended up in >>> >>Guadalajara of all places! >> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Heather Hess nee Wilson >>> >>> >>> >>>Cualli Tonalli! >>>Mariposita Obsidiana, P.A. >>> >>>http://www.thelensflare.com/u_mariposa.php >>>http://mariposadreaming.blogspot.com/ >>> >>>"I am an amateur and I intend to stay that way for the rest of my >>>life." - >>> >>Andre Kertesz, Hungary, 1930 >> >>>--------------------------------- >>>Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > >

Hi Nuala, You're spot on there about St Petersburg. Coats had the biggest thread mill in the world there from the late 19th century up till the time of the Russian Revolution, when it was nationalised without compensation. I vaguely remember a complicated story about all the title deeds, trade marks etc being spirited out of Russia by the Scottish managers in order to prove ownership in the event of the Revolution failing. Ironically, after Perestroika, the Russians asked Coats to provide technical expertise in modernising their thread industry, and (again vaguely remembered) I think some sort of a joint venture or partnership was formed, so Coats got back into the Russian market after all those years. In the late 1920s or early 30s, Coats also bought a German thread group, Mez AG of Freiburg im Breisgau, and with it came subsidiaries in Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Hungary, Yugoslavia and Romania, to add to their existing operations in other European, Asian, North and South American countries, so by the late 1930s they were truly a global group, and a very successful one at that. When they set up a new factory it was common practice to send a team of experts in every aspect of thread manufacturing, marketing, administration etc to set up the operation train local staff, and run the company. As a result, Paisley families dispersed all across the globe, so don't be surprised at Scottish connections in the unlikeliest places. Regards Ken Mathieson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nuala Cockburn" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > Another place Coats set up factories was St. Petersberg in Russia. My > husband's adopted great aunt was sent there by the firm to teach the Russian > girls in the cotton mill in the latter part of the 19th Century. She then > became a governess in the family of the Grand Duke of Mecklenberg Strelitz > where she remained until her death in 1908, she was buried in the family > cemetery there. > > Nuala > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roxanne Neel" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 6:15 PM > Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > > > > Ken ~ Oh my goodness, I still have spools of Coats & Clarks thread from > > years ago when I used to sew! I assumed it was made in America... > > Thank you for the information! > > Roxanne Neel > > Cedarpines Park, California, USA > > > > > > Ken Mathieson wrote: > > > >>Hi Heather, > >> > >>The connection between Paisley and Guadalajara is that Paisley was once > >>the > >>World's leading town for the manufacture of sewing thread. There were 2 > >>huge > >>family businesses, the Clarks and the Coats, which eventually merged as > >>United Thread Mills Ltd, a subsidiary of J & P Coats Ltd, which is now > >>part > >>of the Coats Viyella Tootal group. By the end of the 19th century, lots of > >>countries were erecting tariff barriers to limit imports and foster local > >>industry. Mexico was one such, and one of the Paisley companies set up a > >>mill there (I'm not sure which), but in the 1960s & 70s when I worked for > >>Coats, they had a mill in Guadalajara and another in Mexico City, as well > >>as > >>in countless other places around the world. Some googling should yield > >>further info. > >> > >>I hope this helps, > >> > >>Ken Mathieson, > >>Uddingston SCT > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Mariposa Obsidian" <[email protected]> > >>To: <[email protected]> > >>Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:28 PM > >>Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Muir, jamison, Orr > >> > >> > >> > >>>Hi: Could someone place look ont the early census for me (Paisley) and > >>> > >>see if you can find the families of: > >> > >>> Joseph Johnston (b. 1832 in Paisley, Scotland) > >>> Jean Young (b. 1838 in Paisley, Scotland). > >>> > >>> They both died in 1896 in Guadalajara Mexico. > >>> > >>> I am trying to research the family and find out how they ended up in > >>> > >>Guadalajara of all places! > >> > >>> Thanks! > >>> > >>> Heather Hess nee Wilson > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Cualli Tonalli! > >>>Mariposita Obsidiana, P.A. > >>> > >>>http://www.thelensflare.com/u_mariposa.php > >>>http://mariposadreaming.blogspot.com/ > >>> > >>>"I am an amateur and I intend to stay that way for the rest of my > >>>life." - > >>> > >>Andre Kertesz, Hungary, 1930 > >> > >>>--------------------------------- > >>>Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >

Hi Roxanne, Coats & Clark Inc was the name of the Paisley company's US subsidiary, which I think was originally set up by the Clark family and later changed its name when the business interests of the 2 families combined in the UK. So if you've got Coats & Clark thread in the USA, it was manufactured there. Their head office was in NYC, and I think their prncipal mill was in Birmingham Alabama. Regards, Ken Mathieson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roxanne Neel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > Ken ~ Oh my goodness, I still have spools of Coats & Clarks thread from > years ago when I used to sew! I assumed it was made in America... > Thank you for the information! > Roxanne Neel > Cedarpines Park, California, USA > > > Ken Mathieson wrote: > > >Hi Heather, > > > >The connection between Paisley and Guadalajara is that Paisley was once the > >World's leading town for the manufacture of sewing thread. There were 2 huge > >family businesses, the Clarks and the Coats, which eventually merged as > >United Thread Mills Ltd, a subsidiary of J & P Coats Ltd, which is now part > >of the Coats Viyella Tootal group. By the end of the 19th century, lots of > >countries were erecting tariff barriers to limit imports and foster local > >industry. Mexico was one such, and one of the Paisley companies set up a > >mill there (I'm not sure which), but in the 1960s & 70s when I worked for > >Coats, they had a mill in Guadalajara and another in Mexico City, as well as > >in countless other places around the world. Some googling should yield > >further info. > > > >I hope this helps, > > > >Ken Mathieson, > >Uddingston SCT > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Mariposa Obsidian" <[email protected]> > >To: <[email protected]> > >Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:28 PM > >Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Muir, jamison, Orr > > > > > > > > > >>Hi: Could someone place look ont the early census for me (Paisley) and > >> > >> > >see if you can find the families of: > > > > > >> Joseph Johnston (b. 1832 in Paisley, Scotland) > >> Jean Young (b. 1838 in Paisley, Scotland). > >> > >> They both died in 1896 in Guadalajara Mexico. > >> > >> I am trying to research the family and find out how they ended up in > >> > >> > >Guadalajara of all places! > > > > > >> Thanks! > >> > >> Heather Hess nee Wilson > >> > >> > >> > >>Cualli Tonalli! > >>Mariposita Obsidiana, P.A. > >> > >>http://www.thelensflare.com/u_mariposa.php > >>http://mariposadreaming.blogspot.com/ > >> > >>"I am an amateur and I intend to stay that way for the rest of my life." - > >> > >> > >Andre Kertesz, Hungary, 1930 > > > > > >>--------------------------------- > >>Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Another place Coats set up factories was St. Petersberg in Russia. My husband's adopted great aunt was sent there by the firm to teach the Russian girls in the cotton mill in the latter part of the 19th Century. She then became a governess in the family of the Grand Duke of Mecklenberg Strelitz where she remained until her death in 1908, she was buried in the family cemetery there. Nuala ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roxanne Neel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > Ken ~ Oh my goodness, I still have spools of Coats & Clarks thread from > years ago when I used to sew! I assumed it was made in America... > Thank you for the information! > Roxanne Neel > Cedarpines Park, California, USA > > > Ken Mathieson wrote: > >>Hi Heather, >> >>The connection between Paisley and Guadalajara is that Paisley was once >>the >>World's leading town for the manufacture of sewing thread. There were 2 >>huge >>family businesses, the Clarks and the Coats, which eventually merged as >>United Thread Mills Ltd, a subsidiary of J & P Coats Ltd, which is now >>part >>of the Coats Viyella Tootal group. By the end of the 19th century, lots of >>countries were erecting tariff barriers to limit imports and foster local >>industry. Mexico was one such, and one of the Paisley companies set up a >>mill there (I'm not sure which), but in the 1960s & 70s when I worked for >>Coats, they had a mill in Guadalajara and another in Mexico City, as well >>as >>in countless other places around the world. Some googling should yield >>further info. >> >>I hope this helps, >> >>Ken Mathieson, >>Uddingston SCT >> >> >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Mariposa Obsidian" <[email protected]> >>To: <[email protected]> >>Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:28 PM >>Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Muir, jamison, Orr >> >> >> >>>Hi: Could someone place look ont the early census for me (Paisley) and >>> >>see if you can find the families of: >> >>> Joseph Johnston (b. 1832 in Paisley, Scotland) >>> Jean Young (b. 1838 in Paisley, Scotland). >>> >>> They both died in 1896 in Guadalajara Mexico. >>> >>> I am trying to research the family and find out how they ended up in >>> >>Guadalajara of all places! >> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Heather Hess nee Wilson >>> >>> >>> >>>Cualli Tonalli! >>>Mariposita Obsidiana, P.A. >>> >>>http://www.thelensflare.com/u_mariposa.php >>>http://mariposadreaming.blogspot.com/ >>> >>>"I am an amateur and I intend to stay that way for the rest of my >>>life." - >>> >>Andre Kertesz, Hungary, 1930 >> >>>--------------------------------- >>>Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > >

Ken ~ Oh my goodness, I still have spools of Coats & Clarks thread from years ago when I used to sew! I assumed it was made in America... Thank you for the information! Roxanne Neel Cedarpines Park, California, USA Ken Mathieson wrote: >Hi Heather, > >The connection between Paisley and Guadalajara is that Paisley was once the >World's leading town for the manufacture of sewing thread. There were 2 huge >family businesses, the Clarks and the Coats, which eventually merged as >United Thread Mills Ltd, a subsidiary of J & P Coats Ltd, which is now part >of the Coats Viyella Tootal group. By the end of the 19th century, lots of >countries were erecting tariff barriers to limit imports and foster local >industry. Mexico was one such, and one of the Paisley companies set up a >mill there (I'm not sure which), but in the 1960s & 70s when I worked for >Coats, they had a mill in Guadalajara and another in Mexico City, as well as >in countless other places around the world. Some googling should yield >further info. > >I hope this helps, > >Ken Mathieson, >Uddingston SCT > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mariposa Obsidian" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:28 PM >Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Muir, jamison, Orr > > > > >>Hi: Could someone place look ont the early census for me (Paisley) and >> >> >see if you can find the families of: > > >> Joseph Johnston (b. 1832 in Paisley, Scotland) >> Jean Young (b. 1838 in Paisley, Scotland). >> >> They both died in 1896 in Guadalajara Mexico. >> >> I am trying to research the family and find out how they ended up in >> >> >Guadalajara of all places! > > >> Thanks! >> >> Heather Hess nee Wilson >> >> >> >>Cualli Tonalli! >>Mariposita Obsidiana, P.A. >> >>http://www.thelensflare.com/u_mariposa.php >>http://mariposadreaming.blogspot.com/ >> >>"I am an amateur and I intend to stay that way for the rest of my life." - >> >> >Andre Kertesz, Hungary, 1930 > > >>--------------------------------- >>Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. >> >> >> >> > > > > > >

Hello, all.. I am trying to find evidence of a John GRAHAM, father of Archibald Graham (b. 1735, marr. a Mary BAXTER) father of Effie (Euphemia?) GRAHAM (b. 1766 in Inverary,, Agryllshire). This John GRAHAM, who migrated to North Carolina, is reported to have been a school teacher who was born in Paisley. Are there any records of his birth of early years? Who were his parents and from what lines did they come? Thank you for your time and any help :)

If you go to the National Archives for Scotland web site http://www.nas.gov.uk/ and search the catalogue with "Burntshields Associate Congregation" you will see whats held. Sadly no Marriage records Goodluck in your research >X-Message: #1 >Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:42:00 -0700 >From: "Irene Mitchell" <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Subject: OFF TOPIC: Burntshields Associate Congregation, Kilbarchan, >Renfrew >Content-Type: text/plain; > format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Is anyone able to help me? On the I.G.I., I came across christening >records >for the Burntshields Associate Congregation, Kilbarchan, Renfrew, Scotland. >The Batch Number is C190601. > >If this congregation kept a record of christenings, one would think they >would have recorded marriages as well but if they did, I'm unable to find >any. > >Any suggestions? > >Irene, Canada > >______________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb

Hi Bobbie, You said: > I would suggest that the Thomas of 1812 died in infancy and in 1814, a new > son was given the name of Thomas. My thoughts also; common sense dictates this. > I have also found that the ages given in > a census, particularly the early ones, are not always correct. All the other enumerated ages with this family are though correct. There are/have been so many recording mistakes both present and past with this family that it seems so unlikely. Unless someone can suggest why I should not, I'll go with the 1814 birth. Angus

Hi everyone, Thanks to Jack Mills I have mostly solved my elusive FERGUSON/MURRAY line in the 1851 Greenock census. Firstly, SP has them very poorly and elusively indexed. Secondly, the scanned image is of low quality, thus SP is not allowing it to be viewed. In the 1851, Thomas MURRAY, the Head of Household, is recorded as 39 years of age therefore born c.1811/12 in Greenock. The IGI and SP has two Thomas Murray born in Greenock to exactly the same parents, James Murray and Elis(z)abeth Ewing; one on 23/12/1812, the other on 28/02/1814. These two births to the same parents suggest that the first Thomas born in 1812 died in infancy before his nominal successor was born in 1814. Who was the Thomas in the 1851 census? Was he the first Thomas, born in 1812 as his enumerated age of 39 suggests? If so, why should his parents name another child Thomas in 1814? Is this a mistake? Any suggestions? Angus

Hi Angus: I would suggest that the Thomas of 1812 died in infancy and in 1814, a new son was given the name of Thomas. I have also found that the ages given in a census, particularly the early ones, are not always correct. Cheers, Bobbie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angus Ferguson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 1:54 PM Subject: [Renfrew] MURRAY/Greenock: Birth date conundrum > Hi everyone, > > Thanks to Jack Mills I have mostly solved my elusive FERGUSON/MURRAY line > in > the 1851 Greenock census. Firstly, SP has them very poorly and elusively > indexed. Secondly, the scanned image is of low quality, thus SP is not > allowing it to be viewed. > > In the 1851, Thomas MURRAY, the Head of Household, is recorded as 39 years > of age therefore born c.1811/12 in Greenock. The IGI and SP has two Thomas > Murray born in Greenock to exactly the same parents, James Murray and > Elis(z)abeth Ewing; one on 23/12/1812, the other on 28/02/1814. These two > births to the same parents suggest that the first Thomas born in 1812 died > in infancy before his nominal successor was born in 1814. Who was the > Thomas > in the 1851 census? Was he the first Thomas, born in 1812 as his > enumerated > age of 39 suggests? If so, why should his parents name another child > Thomas > in 1814? Is this a mistake? Any suggestions? > > Angus > > >

You may have done this already but if not you might try the following site. It's worked for me a couple of times when the IGI at familysearch failed. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm#Page Cheers, San-Dee Lyons ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irene Mitchell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 11:42 AM Subject: [Renfrew] OFF TOPIC: Burntshields Associate Congregation, Kilbarchan, Renfrew > Is anyone able to help me? On the I.G.I., I came across christening records > for the Burntshields Associate Congregation, Kilbarchan, Renfrew, Scotland. > The Batch Number is C190601. > > If this congregation kept a record of christenings, one would think they > would have recorded marriages as well but if they did, I'm unable to find > any. > > Any suggestions? > > Irene, Canada >

Is anyone able to help me? On the I.G.I., I came across christening records for the Burntshields Associate Congregation, Kilbarchan, Renfrew, Scotland. The Batch Number is C190601. If this congregation kept a record of christenings, one would think they would have recorded marriages as well but if they did, I'm unable to find any. Any suggestions? Irene, Canada

Hi Don I found it on the map .Google gives no reference to the earlier Barrhead Seminary,I will try Paisley library as well. cheers Bill ======================================== Message Received: Jul 20 2006, 06:56 PM From: "Don Muirhead" To: [email protected] Cc: Subject: RE: [Renfrew] placesHAWKHEAD Bill, Hardgate is on the map I sent you yesterday. It's in the north border just south of Millbank. For information on the Seminary try sending a note off to the Barrhead Library http://www.barrhead-scotland.com/Community/resource_centres/barrhead_library .asp Cheers!!! Don Muirhead Port Dover, ON CA

Thanks Mary I found Hardgate and it should have been Hawkshead my Robert Stewart was a school teacher and i assume that there were schools in those areas he also taught at the Sabbath School, Cartside. Bill ======================================== Message Received: Jul 19 2006, 10:47 PM From: "Mary Hamilton" To: [email protected] Cc: Subject: Re: [Renfrew] places Hi Bill, From memory Barrhead is about 5 miles south of Paisley. I imagine the Seminary was a school near there. Houston is northwest of Paisley , about 5 miles and "The Hardgate" (as it was known in my youth) was closer to Kilbarchan. Can't help with Hawkwead. Could it be Hawkshead? and possibly a farm? Regards, Mary Coordinator for East Lothian FreeCens Coordinator for East Lothian FreeReg