do you have any more info on mary Orr ? --- Jan Hunt <[email protected]> wrote: > > Would anyone on this list be researching the same > KEITH line? > > I can't work out if her parents are Donald KEITH & > Mary ORR, John KEITH & > Margaret WALKER, or John KEITH & Elizabeth MCDOUGAL. > > Help or suggestions gratefully received. > > Cheers > Jan > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Would anyone on this list be researching the same KEITH line? I can't work out if her parents are Donald KEITH & Mary ORR, John KEITH & Margaret WALKER, or John KEITH & Elizabeth MCDOUGAL. Help or suggestions gratefully received. Cheers Jan

Hello Den, You don't say where you are, but if Scotland (Glasgow or Edinburgh) is not accessible to you, you could hire a genealogist to check the records for you. Otherwise you could try writing to the Greenock Telegraph. They would probably publish a letter and I would be surprised if you did not get a response. Most Greenock people seem to get the Telegraph daily. If that fails all you can do is wait for the 1910 census data to be released. Good luck Johan Lochridge ----- Original Message ---- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, 31 July, 2006 2:37:50 PM Subject: [Renfrew] Greenock query Hi I am wondering whether anyone can help me to find out whether there were any more children for the following couple. I only know of 1 so far and presume (maybe wrongly) that there would be others. Walter Little DEVLIN & Mary SHERIFF married 1903 in Blythswood, Glasgow Joseph Sheriff Devlin was born 1905 in Greenock The family remained in Greenock to present day. Any help appreciated. Regards Den

Hi I am wondering whether anyone can help me to find out whether there were any more children for the following couple. I only know of 1 so far and presume (maybe wrongly) that there would be others. Walter Little DEVLIN & Mary SHERIFF married 1903 in Blythswood, Glasgow Joseph Sheriff Devlin was born 1905 in Greenock The family remained in Greenock to present day. Any help appreciated. Regards Den

Testing communications.

test came through loud and clear --- John Carswell <[email protected]> wrote: > Testing communications. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Hi everyone, Continuing the 'thread' (pun intended!) about thread manufacturing, I have a query about Fleming Reid Worsted Thread Manufacturers of Greenock. I think I may know the answer, but would appreciate other listers thoughts on the subject. I have two SIMPSON brothers, William (b.1829) and Richard (b.1836) from Cockerham in north Lancashire, England, who came to Greenock to work at the fledgling Fleming Reid company in the 1840's. William was already a worsted spinner in Lancashire when he left (I assume with Richard) for Greenock. Why might they have moved from Cockerham to Greenock? I realise that there was mass internal migration in the UK throughout the 1800's, so movement was common. Cockerham to Greenock is about 150 miles north 'as the crow flies' so it was a considerable trek, although I suspect that they travelled using the new West Coast Main Railway Line. The rest of their large family remained in Lancashire however, working in the cotton mills of Preston, so work for the brothers was probably available. I also know that the 1840's was known (at least in Lancashire and possibly wider) as the 'Hungry Forties', so there may have been an urgency to their leaving their 9 siblings and parents. I am wondering though whether there was a connection between Fleming Reid and north Lancashire? The brothers married two SCOTT sisters and with their 'help', continued the tradition of huge, living families, thus bucking the trend of high rates of infant mortality. They set up a dynasty of SIMPSON (including my g grandmother) that by 1881 was 22 strong and growing. I am now trying to link these with current SIMPSON in Greenock and beyond, but as the name is so common this is proving difficult. By the time of their deaths in 1887 and 1896 respectively, both William and Richard were drawing overlooker managers at Fleming Reid. Fleming Reid was made famous by their chain of 'Scotch Hosiery Stores' created in the late 1800's, which were later subsumed into Coats Patons Ltd in 1967. Kind regards Angus Ferguson. Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. Researching in Greenock: Ferguson, Simpson, Scott, Alexander, Russell, Boyd, McLeod, MacLeod, Reid, Galloway, McKechnie, Murray, Ostler, Probait, Probert.

Vyella is very expensive to buy these days but it was lovely to sew and you had to be very careful when you washed it, with it being made from wool. My aunts uncle used to work at the Vyella factory in Paisley and I was lucky enough to be able to go to the factory shop in 1970 when I was visiting Scotland and buy a few lengths of fabric. Sandy (Wagga x 2) ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.M.de Montalk" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > That's fascinating - I remember making baby gowns and smocked dresses from > Viyella for my children. Interesting to know the background. > > Jeanette. > . Unlike > > other yarns, Viyella was not made of a single fiber, but was a combination > > of > > wool and cotton fibers. Renison McNab & Co was one of the firms called > > upon to > > solve the problem of weaving this yarn into cloth. > > The problem with combining wool and cotton fibers in the same yarn is that > > different sizings were normally used for these fibers. The trick to > > successfully > > weaving the mixed fiber yarn was finding a sizing that would work well > > with both > > cotton and wool. Renison McNab & Co was one of the first mills to solve > > this > > problem and satisfactorily weave it into cloth for Hollins. > >

I was very interested to read the Coats messages. My Great-Uncle David Ross was born and grew up in Paisley. He worked as a Translator for the Coats' factory in Vienna, Austria. He was interned as an 'Enemy Alien' during the First World War, and I think that he was made to work on a farm in the Tyrol. After the war, he married a girl from Vienna and he was sent to the Coats' factory in Lucca, Italy. Their son (my father's 1st cousin) was born and grew up in Lucca. David, his wife and son remained there until the Second World War began, then they had to escape back to Glasgow. David died in 1954. Two of his sisters worked in the offices of the Paisley factory. Agnes Ross died c. 1940, and Mary Ross died c. 1960. Does anyone know if there might be Coats records for any of them anywhere? Cyndy

That's fascinating - I remember making baby gowns and smocked dresses from Viyella for my children. Interesting to know the background. Jeanette. . Unlike > other yarns, Viyella was not made of a single fiber, but was a combination > of > wool and cotton fibers. Renison McNab & Co was one of the firms called > upon to > solve the problem of weaving this yarn into cloth. > The problem with combining wool and cotton fibers in the same yarn is that > different sizings were normally used for these fibers. The trick to > successfully > weaving the mixed fiber yarn was finding a sizing that would work well > with both > cotton and wool. Renison McNab & Co was one of the first mills to solve > this > problem and satisfactorily weave it into cloth for Hollins.

Maggie, Read your message about Clark Thread and living in Kearny, #5 Vol 158... I also lived and grew up there. My Grandmother, Annie Logan and my Mother, Annie Stewart m.s. Logan both worked at the Mill in Paisley. My parents came to Kearny in 1921 and my grandmother came in 1922. My grandmother retired from the Paisley mill and used to pick up her pension checks at the Clarks office in Newark NJ. The mill itself was located on Passaic Ave, East Newark, NJ and the Congoleum Narin was located on Belleville Drive, Kearny. There were two Scottish bakeries in Kearny, The Thistle and the Caledonia and they probably got their Scottish pies from either Stewart's or Cameron Scottish butchers on Kearny Ave; there was also a Scottish butcher shop and bakery in East Newark. As you said, most of Kearny was Scottish and Irish. Just thought I'd mention about the Scottish pies, both butcher shops are still in Kearny, although most of the Scots have moved elsewhere, in fact Stewart's (no relation) have opened two stores on the NJ shore. Also the Argyll Fish and Chips Store is still in Kearny and they opened a store on the NJ shore. Jim.

Another coincidence, After reading the correspondence on Coats/Clark families, I was on the Waverly (the last ocean going paddlesteamer?) today sailing to Loch Long and Loch Goil, and we passed a lovely Victorian Villa overlooking the Holy Loch. It was described as "Dunselma" the home of Coats of Paisley, it fair made my day! Regards Johan Lochridge Largs

My mother's family the MASSON's lived in New Street which ran from High Street through to Causeyside. Sandy (Wagga x 2) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John from West Aus" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > My G.G.Grandfather Andrew Warnock was a Thread manufacturer in Paisley, in > the 1850's he lived and worked at 59 High Street Paisley, and the building > was at the corner of High street & Causeyside street. He was married to > Annabella Clark who I am certain was a sister of John & James Clark who I > have always thought to have been part of the "Clarks Cottons" Family > John from West Aus > > > > >

Is that building part of the Co-op these days and I believe it is closing down? Sandy (Wagga x 2) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John from West Aus" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > My G.G.Grandfather Andrew Warnock was a Thread manufacturer in Paisley, in > the 1850's he lived and worked at 59 High Street Paisley, and the building > was at the corner of High street & Causeyside street. He was married to > Annabella Clark who I am certain was a sister of John & James Clark who I > have always thought to have been part of the "Clarks Cottons" Family > John from West Aus > > > > >

I grew up in a small town outside of Newark New Jersey called Kearny. That is where the Clark Thread Mill was located, I believe. Also, Congoliem Nairn, another Scottish company was located there. Both these companies imported workers from Scotland who located to Kearny, North Arlington and Harrison in New Jersey. My Grandmother ,who came from Johnstone, just outside of Paisley, said in Scotland they heard Kearny was just across the river from Brooklyn. We had the only Scottish Bakery I had ever encountered anywhere as a child. They sold meat pies and raisin squares, so much Scottish in that area. Maggie

Hi folks, The head of the Clark family of thread fame is Sir Jack Stewart-Clark, Bart., former leader of the Conservative Group in the European Parliament and Vice chairman of the European Parliament who now runs the family home, Dundas Castle (next to the dreadful M8000 bottleneck between the M8 and Forth Road Bridge) as a conference centre, weddings venue etc. Jack is a very charming man and intensely proud of the part his family played in the development of the thread industry. Interestingly my cousin and her partner now own one of the penthouse flats in what was the factory right in the centre of Paisley. It has to be ironic that a factory where thousands toiled for low pay is now around 60 luxury properties for today's mass affluent citizens of Paisley. Cheers Mark Mark Sutherland-Fisher Director Fisher (Holiday Enterprises) Ltd email: [email protected] web site: www.highland-family-heritage.co.uk Tel/Fax: 00 44 (0) 1862 871877 Mobile: 00 44 (0) 7765 272815 Skype call name: easterross -----Original Message----- From: John from West Aus [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 26 July 2006 01:53 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks My G.G.Grandfather Andrew Warnock was a Thread manufacturer in Paisley, in the 1850's he lived and worked at 59 High Street Paisley, and the building was at the corner of High street & Causeyside street. He was married to Annabella Clark who I am certain was a sister of John & James Clark who I have always thought to have been part of the "Clarks Cottons" Family John from West Aus

Just to add to my previous email, my great grandfather David MASSON was coachman/chauffeur to the Coats family and met his wife Margaret McCOLL who was a ladies maid for the family also. Sandy (Wagga x 2) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Mathieson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > Hi Wayne, > > From memory, the 2 firms amalgamated in the early 20th century, but a Google > search can probably turn up precise info. However, the names of the original > firms and their logos have been preserved for branding and trade mark > reasons ever since, so I doubt very much whether your threads are antiques. > Clark had an anchor as its logo, and its threads were made at Anchor Mills > in the centre of Paisley. Coats had their mill at Ferguslie, in Paisley's > west end, and their insignia was a looped chain. These logos were used > world-wide. Both mills are now gone, although some of the old buildings have > been converted for other uses. Indeed, Coats do not manufacture thread in > the UK at all now. It's all imported from Germany. > > Regards, > > Ken Mathieson > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wayne R Abel" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 1:35 AM > Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > > > > And I bet we have all gone diving for our sewing boxes,!! I did, straight > > into the model 66 Singer sewing machine(treadle), still in working order > > with all attachments,and found one reel of Clark & Co and two of J &P > Coats > > Ltd. So I take it from these, that this would have been before the > > amalgamation???Interesting. > > Wayne > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Roxanne Neel" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 1:15 AM > > Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > > > > > > > Ken ~ Oh my goodness, I still have spools of Coats & Clarks thread from > > > years ago when I used to sew! I assumed it was made in America... > > > Thank you for the information! > > > Roxanne Neel > > > Cedarpines Park, California, USA > > > > > > > > > Ken Mathieson wrote: > > > > > >>Hi Heather, > > >> > > >>The connection between Paisley and Guadalajara is that Paisley was once > > >>the > > >>World's leading town for the manufacture of sewing thread. There were 2 > > >>huge > > >>family businesses, the Clarks and the Coats, which eventually merged as > > >>United Thread Mills Ltd, a subsidiary of J & P Coats Ltd, which is now > > >>part > > >>of the Coats Viyella Tootal group. By the end of the 19th century, lots > of > > >>countries were erecting tariff barriers to limit imports and foster > local > > >>industry. Mexico was one such, and one of the Paisley companies set up a > > >>mill there (I'm not sure which), but in the 1960s & 70s when I worked > for > > >>Coats, they had a mill in Guadalajara and another in Mexico City, as > well > > >>as > > >>in countless other places around the world. Some googling should yield > > >>further info. > > >> > > >>I hope this helps, > > >> > > >>Ken Mathieson, > > >>Uddingston SCT > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > >>From: "Mariposa Obsidian" <[email protected]> > > >>To: <[email protected]> > > >>Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:28 PM > > >>Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Muir, jamison, Orr > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>Hi: Could someone place look ont the early census for me (Paisley) and > > >>> > > >>see if you can find the families of: > > >> > > >>> Joseph Johnston (b. 1832 in Paisley, Scotland) > > >>> Jean Young (b. 1838 in Paisley, Scotland). > > >>> > > >>> They both died in 1896 in Guadalajara Mexico. > > >>> > > >>> I am trying to research the family and find out how they ended up in > > >>> > > >>Guadalajara of all places! > > >> > > >>> Thanks! > > >>> > > >>> Heather Hess nee Wilson > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>Cualli Tonalli! > > >>>Mariposita Obsidiana, P.A. > > >>> > > >>>http://www.thelensflare.com/u_mariposa.php > > >>>http://mariposadreaming.blogspot.com/ > > >>> > > >>>"I am an amateur and I intend to stay that way for the rest of my > > >>>life." - > > >>> > > >>Andre Kertesz, Hungary, 1930 > > >> > > >>>--------------------------------- > > >>>Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >

That's a coincidence as all my McNab ancestor's worked for Coats also. Sandy (Wagga x 2) ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Rorer" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 5:21 AM Subject: RE: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks > It's funny that the name Viyella should come up. My second great uncle Alexander > James McNab was one of the principles in developing the practical manufacture of > the thread called Viyella, in his mill at 171 Boden Street Glasgow. This > building still existed as late as the 1970's and in fact I've looked at the > aerial photos in Google Earth and it still appears to be there. > Part of the story is quoted below. > > David Rorer > > Renison McNab & Co., Powerloom Cloth Manufacturers of Glasgow > In 1863 Alexander James McNab and William Renison founded Renison McNab & Co., > Powerloom Cloth Manufacturers, on Hosier Street, in the Bridgeton district of > Glasgow. Later they appear to have built a new building at 140 Boden St. > Renison McNab & Co specialized in weaving cloth on commission, utilizing power > driven looms. One of their yarn suppliers was William Hollins & Company, Ltd of > Derby, England, which had developed a specialty yarn known as Viyella. Unlike > other yarns, Viyella was not made of a single fiber, but was a combination of > wool and cotton fibers. Renison McNab & Co was one of the firms called upon to > solve the problem of weaving this yarn into cloth. > The problem with combining wool and cotton fibers in the same yarn is that > different sizings were normally used for these fibers. The trick to successfully > weaving the mixed fiber yarn was finding a sizing that would work well with both > cotton and wool. Renison McNab & Co was one of the first mills to solve this > problem and satisfactorily weave it into cloth for Hollins. Eventually, in order > to ensure the quality of the cloth woven from it's yarn; Hollins purchased the > Boden St Mill, in 1900, from Alexander McNab who by then was operating it as a > sole proprietor. > The mill was taken into the Hollins organization and there cloth was > manufactured for the company for over three quarters of the 20th century. The > Alexander McNab name was continued as the distributor of unbranded cloth on a > wholesale basis until at least the 1950's. > > > > >> > > >>The connection between Paisley and Guadalajara is that Paisley was once > > >>the > > >>World's leading town for the manufacture of sewing thread. There were 2 > > >>huge > > >>family businesses, the Clarks and the Coats, which eventually merged as > > >>United Thread Mills Ltd, a subsidiary of J & P Coats Ltd, which is now > > >>part > > >>of the Coats Viyella Tootal group. By the end of the 19th century, lots of > > >>countries were erecting tariff barriers to limit imports and foster local > > >>industry. Mexico was one such, and one of the Paisley companies set up a > > >>mill there (I'm not sure which), but in the 1960s & 70s when I worked for > > >>Coats, they had a mill in Guadalajara and another in Mexico City, as well > > >>as > > >>in countless other places around the world. Some googling should yield > > >>further info. > > >> > > >>I hope this helps, > > >> > > >>Ken Mathieson, > > >>Uddingston SCT > > > >

My G.G.Grandfather Andrew Warnock was a Thread manufacturer in Paisley, in the 1850's he lived and worked at 59 High Street Paisley, and the building was at the corner of High street & Causeyside street. He was married to Annabella Clark who I am certain was a sister of John & James Clark who I have always thought to have been part of the "Clarks Cottons" Family John from West Aus

Hi All, Here's something I found when I googled United Thread Mills: <snip> James Chadwick & Bros Ltd, cotton manufacturers, Bolton, England was formed in 1893 and was doing business in New York, USA and Montreal, Canada. In 1896, J & P Coats, thread manufacturers, Paisley, Renfrewshire, Scotland, amalgamated with Clark & Co Ltd, thread manufacturers, Paisley, its American associates, Jonas Brook & Bros Ltd, thread manufacturers, Meltham Mills, Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England, and James Chadwick & Bros Ltd to form the enlarged firm of J & P Coats Ltd, with a market value of around GBP 22 million, and approximately 25,000 shareholders. Each company maintained its identity with the preservation of the names and trade marks which were used for the particular market with which they were associated. In 1917, The Clark Thread Co, thread manufacturers, Newark, New Jersey, USA, purchased the American business of James Chadwick & Bros Ltd. United Thread Mills Ltd, thread manufacturers, Glasgow, Scotland, was incorporated in March 1931 and almost immediately entered into agreements with J & P Coats Ltd, Clark & Co Ltd, Jonas Brook & Bros and James Chadwick & Bros for United Thread Mills Ltd to purchase properties from them. The companies continued to operate in their mills, but as a branch of United Thread Mills Ltd. <snip> This clarifies somethings I'd forgotten: UTM didn't manufacture: It was a selling agency for several manufacturers, including the combined Coats and Clark business trading in the UK as J&P Coats Ltd. Coats & Clark Inc, the American subsidiary of J&P Coats, had a mill in New Jersey (not from memory in Newark, but in a small town nearby), and in its early days, this was staffed by workers from Paisley. The town was a wee outpost of Scotland for many years until the thread business declined. There was an article about the town and its Scottish connections in a Scottish weekend newspaper a year or so ago. While this thread (!) is running, Coats have had a large operation in Brasil since around 1909, and in its early days it was staffed by Paisley emigres, so much so that when I worked there in the 1970s, the millworkers' word for a foreman was "um nhafi" (pronounced "nyaffee"), which was their pronunciation of a derogatory Old Scots word for a small objectionable man. One of the the early employees there was a fine soccer player (Archie McLean from memory), who is credited with introducing the Scottish short-passing game into Brasilian soccer, and this has remained the basis of the Brasilian style ever since. In the 1970s there were still second generation Scots Brasilians, the sons and daughters of the first wave of Paisley mill workers, living in Sao Paulo. The Coats mill is reputed to be the first large-scale factory to be built in Sao Paulo, so much so that the bus that runs out to Ipiranga, where the mill is, carries the simple destination sign "Fabrica" (Portuguese for "factory"). It looks pretty odd nowadays when you consider that Saou Paulo is now one of the largest manufacturing towns on the planet. Regards, Ken Mathieson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mariposa Obsidian" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 11:49 PM Subject: RE: [Renfrew] Coats & Clarks Hi: Wow - I didn't expect to get this much info. Did anyone else have family go to Mexico to work in the Coats & Clark factory? Heather David Rorer <[email protected]> wrote: It's funny that the name Viyella should come up. My second great uncle Alexander James McNab was one of the principles in developing the practical manufacture of the thread called Viyella, in his mill at 171 Boden Street Glasgow. This building still existed as late as the 1970's and in fact I've looked at the aerial photos in Google Earth and it still appears to be there. Part of the story is quoted below. David Rorer Renison McNab & Co., Powerloom Cloth Manufacturers of Glasgow In 1863 Alexander James McNab and William Renison founded Renison McNab & Co., Powerloom Cloth Manufacturers, on Hosier Street, in the Bridgeton district of Glasgow. Later they appear to have built a new building at 140 Boden St. Renison McNab & Co specialized in weaving cloth on commission, utilizing power driven looms. One of their yarn suppliers was William Hollins & Company, Ltd of Derby, England, which had developed a specialty yarn known as Viyella. Unlike other yarns, Viyella was not made of a single fiber, but was a combination of wool and cotton fibers. Renison McNab & Co was one of the firms called upon to solve the problem of weaving this yarn into cloth. The problem with combining wool and cotton fibers in the same yarn is that different sizings were normally used for these fibers. The trick to successfully weaving the mixed fiber yarn was finding a sizing that would work well with both cotton and wool. Renison McNab & Co was one of the first mills to solve this problem and satisfactorily weave it into cloth for Hollins. Eventually, in order to ensure the quality of the cloth woven from it's yarn; Hollins purchased the Boden St Mill, in 1900, from Alexander McNab who by then was operating it as a sole proprietor. The mill was taken into the Hollins organization and there cloth was manufactured for the company for over three quarters of the 20th century. The Alexander McNab name was continued as the distributor of unbranded cloth on a wholesale basis until at least the 1950's. > >> > >>The connection between Paisley and Guadalajara is that Paisley was once > >>the > >>World's leading town for the manufacture of sewing thread. There were 2 > >>huge > >>family businesses, the Clarks and the Coats, which eventually merged as > >>United Thread Mills Ltd, a subsidiary of J & P Coats Ltd, which is now > >>part > >>of the Coats Viyella Tootal group. By the end of the 19th century, lots of > >>countries were erecting tariff barriers to limit imports and foster local > >>industry. Mexico was one such, and one of the Paisley companies set up a > >>mill there (I'm not sure which), but in the 1960s & 70s when I worked for > >>Coats, they had a mill in Guadalajara and another in Mexico City, as well > >>as > >>in countless other places around the world. Some googling should yield > >>further info. > >> > >>I hope this helps, > >> > >>Ken Mathieson, > >>Uddingston SCT Cualli Tonalli! Mariposita Obsidiana, P.A. http://www.thelensflare.com/u_mariposa.php http://mariposadreaming.blogspot.com/ "I am an amateur and I intend to stay that way for the rest of my life." - Andre Kertesz, Hungary, 1930 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.