It was the attempt by Charles I to force the English Episcopalian system with Bishops and Archbishops on the Scottish Presbyterian church which ultimately cost him his head. The Covenanters (the Scottish Lords and their supporters opposed to the English church being forced on Scotland) sided with Oliver Cromwell initially and decisively against Charles and the Archbishop he imposed on Scotland was murdered. All relevant records in Scotland were in the Parish Records, either the Session Records which tended to deal with matters spiritual and "political" within each parish, the Kirk Session being a recognised Court of Law under Scots Law and family matters like baptisms and marriages were kept in the Old Parochial Registers kept and often lost or accidentally destroyed in each Parish by the Minister or his Session Clerk or even the Congregational Clerk, basically whoever was best able to read and write in English. The non-conformist and other churches do have some records but as many of them faced persecution at various times prior to the 19th century, their records are few and far between. As most list members can testify, even the universal OPR are far from complete and generally have more information missing than included, much to the frustration of the modern genealogist. Cheers Mark Mark Sutherland-Fisher Director Fisher (Holiday Enterprises) Ltd email: [email protected] web site: www.highland-family-heritage.co.uk Tel/Fax: 00 44 (0) 1862 871877 Mobile: 00 44 (0) 7765 272815 Skype call name: john.sutherland.fisher -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 10 August 2006 09:47 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Scottish equivalent of C of E Bishop's Transcripts? In a message dated 09/08/2006 23:49:44 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Does anyone know whether there are Scottish versions of the Bishop's Transcripts of pre 1837 BMBs kept by the Church of England? I imagine the Church of Scotland parishes might have kept these, but did the non - established churches keep them also? There were no Bishops in the Church of Scotland. It was and is Presbyterian. Attempts from over the border to introduce episcopalianism were strongly resisted ...eg Covenanters. So there are no BTs Irene

In a message dated 09/08/2006 23:49:44 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Does anyone know whether there are Scottish versions of the Bishop's Transcripts of pre 1837 BMBs kept by the Church of England? I imagine the Church of Scotland parishes might have kept these, but did the non - established churches keep them also? There were no Bishops in the Church of Scotland. It was and is Presbyterian. Attempts from over the border to introduce episcopalianism were strongly resisted ...eg Covenanters. So there are no BTs Irene

Hi everyone, Does anyone know whether there are Scottish versions of the Bishop's Transcripts of pre 1837 BMBs kept by the Church of England? I imagine the Church of Scotland parishes might have kept these, but did the non - established churches keep them also? In England and Wales, they are usually to be found in County archives. Kind regards Angus Ferguson. Newcastle upon Tyne, UK.

Hi Listers, Looking for others researching WISHART JACK GREENLEES of Paisley Greenlees also Erskine Cheers Olwyn

no Irene not looking for a silversmith. Jenelle. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Emailing: PASSENGER LISTS TO NEW ZEALAND > > In a message dated 05/08/2006 08:49:21 GMT Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > why don't you google paisley born immigrants to New Zealand, 1840's, or > scottish immigrants 1840's to New Zealand, there are alot of passenger > lists > on line, you can also find lists through olivetree genealogy, downtown > new > zealand search engine, www.genealogylinks.net/ click New Zealand, I > posted > quite a few sites to the New Zealand list today > > > Thank you. > > Just out of curiosity ..are you the same Jenelle as once was looking for a > silversmith from Greenock ? Rothesay? > > Irene > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: 5/08/2006 > >

That was a JANELLE,not JENELLE. ~~~ She posted this in 2002. James Davie in Greenock in the 1830's as a "working Silversmith/Goldsmith" in Greenock. Janelle Canberra, Australia [email protected] Researching Davie, Halliday, Menzies, Taylor, Barr ~~~~~~~ Frank McGonigal Ont.Canada >> >> Just out of curiosity ..are you the same Jenelle as once was looking for >> a >> silversmith from Greenock ? Rothesay? >> >> Irene

In a message dated 05/08/2006 08:49:21 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: why don't you google paisley born immigrants to New Zealand, 1840's, or scottish immigrants 1840's to New Zealand, there are alot of passenger lists on line, you can also find lists through olivetree genealogy, downtown new zealand search engine, www.genealogylinks.net/ click New Zealand, I posted quite a few sites to the New Zealand list today Thank you. Just out of curiosity ..are you the same Jenelle as once was looking for a silversmith from Greenock ? Rothesay? Irene

Whilst googling for danish immigrants to Australia, found this site for Immigrants to Canada, 19th Century, with links to other countries, diaries, etc., click on link or type into google search bar, with thanks to site owner. Jenelle. Shortcut to: http://ist.uwaterloo.ca/~marj/genealogy/thevoyage.html Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/409 - Release Date: 4/08/2006

My wifes G.G grandparents were from Paisley area and emigrated to Auckland, New Zealand on the "Duchess of Argyle" in 1842 and another vessel was the "Jane Gifford." Robert ANDREW was a Weaver but became a farmer in New Zealand. I think these were about the first vessels to bring about 500 Scots to New Zealand from the Paisley area. Ships sailed from Greenock. Regards Bruce, New Zealand. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 7:28 PM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Emailing: PASSENGER LISTS TO NEW ZEALAND > When I was on holiday in Wellington earlier this year I visited the Te > Papa > museum, which had an exhibition about NZ immigration. One of the panels > talked > about a bunch of people coming from Paisley in the early 1840s. Anyone > know > anything more about this? > > Irene > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/407 - Release Date: 3/08/2006 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/407 - Release Date: 3/08/2006

Irene, why don't you google paisley born immigrants to New Zealand, 1840's, or scottish immigrants 1840's to New Zealand, there are alot of passenger lists on line, you can also find lists through olivetree genealogy, downtown new zealand search engine, www.genealogylinks.net/ click New Zealand, I posted quite a few sites to the New Zealand list today. Jenelle. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Emailing: PASSENGER LISTS TO NEW ZEALAND > When I was on holiday in Wellington earlier this year I visited the Te > Papa > museum, which had an exhibition about NZ immigration. One of the panels > talked > about a bunch of people coming from Paisley in the early 1840s. Anyone > know > anything more about this? > > Irene > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/409 - Release Date: 4/08/2006 > >

For those of you with family immigrating to New Zealand, click on link. Jenelle. http://www.genealogylinks.net/newzealand/nzships.htm Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.

Also on board the "Duchess" were my gr.gr.grandfather's sister, Jean (Calder) Barr, her husband John, a stone mason, and their five children. Jean was born in Kilbarchan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Aitken" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 10:17 AM Subject: [Renfrew] Duchess of Argyle > Hi Bruce > My gt gt grandfather was on The "Duchess" too- James McIntosh from > Blacklands, Paisley (he was a calico printer) and Christina (nee Munro) > There is a great rootsweb page on the history of the Duchess and the Jane > Gifford's voyages and the fact that they were sponsored by the Presbyterian > Church to get some of their members out of the terrible poverty of Glasgow > in those times > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ourstuff/VoyageofDuchess.htm > It makes interesting reading even if your haven't a family that emigrated > from Scotland > > Donna > Kiwi in Vancouver, Canada > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bruce" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 12:55 AM > Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Emailing: PASSENGER LISTS TO NEW ZEALAND > > > > My wifes G.G grandparents were from Paisley area and emigrated to > > Auckland, New Zealand on the "Duchess of Argyle" in 1842 and another > > vessel was the "Jane Gifford." Robert ANDREW was a Weaver but became a > > farmer in New Zealand. I think these were about the first vessels to bring > > about 500 Scots to New Zealand from the Paisley area. > > Ships sailed from Greenock. > > Regards > > Bruce, > > New Zealand. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 7:28 PM > > Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Emailing: PASSENGER LISTS TO NEW ZEALAND > > > > > >> When I was on holiday in Wellington earlier this year I visited the Te > >> Papa > >> museum, which had an exhibition about NZ immigration. One of the panels > >> talked > >> about a bunch of people coming from Paisley in the early 1840s. Anyone > >> know > >> anything more about this? > >> > >> Irene

Hi Bruce My gt gt grandfather was on The "Duchess" too- James McIntosh from Blacklands, Paisley (he was a calico printer) and Christina (nee Munro) There is a great rootsweb page on the history of the Duchess and the Jane Gifford's voyages and the fact that they were sponsored by the Presbyterian Church to get some of their members out of the terrible poverty of Glasgow in those times http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ourstuff/VoyageofDuchess.htm It makes interesting reading even if your haven't a family that emigrated from Scotland Donna Kiwi in Vancouver, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "bruce" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 12:55 AM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Emailing: PASSENGER LISTS TO NEW ZEALAND > My wifes G.G grandparents were from Paisley area and emigrated to > Auckland, New Zealand on the "Duchess of Argyle" in 1842 and another > vessel was the "Jane Gifford." Robert ANDREW was a Weaver but became a > farmer in New Zealand. I think these were about the first vessels to bring > about 500 Scots to New Zealand from the Paisley area. > Ships sailed from Greenock. > Regards > Bruce, > New Zealand. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 7:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Emailing: PASSENGER LISTS TO NEW ZEALAND > > >> When I was on holiday in Wellington earlier this year I visited the Te >> Papa >> museum, which had an exhibition about NZ immigration. One of the panels >> talked >> about a bunch of people coming from Paisley in the early 1840s. Anyone >> know >> anything more about this? >> >> Irene >> >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/407 - Release Date: 3/08/2006 >> >> > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/407 - Release Date: 3/08/2006 >

When I was on holiday in Wellington earlier this year I visited the Te Papa museum, which had an exhibition about NZ immigration. One of the panels talked about a bunch of people coming from Paisley in the early 1840s. Anyone know anything more about this? Irene

James Orr m Agnes mcAlpin 25 Apr 1825 W. Parish Greenock Renfrew -James b 03 Nov 1836 Greenock Renfrew -James ch 17 Nov 1843 W. Parish Greenock Renfrew. -Helen ch 14 Nov 1843 W. Old Parish Greenoch (The children Helen and James were possibly christened at the one time to save money rather than think of them as twins I think that the James b 1836 is more than likely the correct date, although normally I would take it that the first James died between 1836 and 1843 - but then if the one who lived b 1843 married Mary Pattison 01 Apr 1859 Tradeston Glasgow, then he was only 16 years of age???) However you will note that there was an Alexander b 27 May 1859 High Church Glasgow. just a month after they were married. Then there was a James b 01 Feb 1861 in Bridgeton Glasgow, so that was all the children I could find. Mary Paterson ch 16 Feb 1834 Lochwinnoch Renfrew f James m Mary Sharp James married Mary Sharp 16 mar 1816 Abbey Paisley -Thomas ch 06 Oct 1816 Abbey =John ch 19 Apr 1818 Abbey -James ch 13 Aug 1820 Abbey -William ch 15 Dec 1822 Abbey -janet ch 23 Jan 1825 Abbey -Robert ch 06 Mar 1831 Lochwinnoch Renfrew -Mary ch 16 Feb 1834 Lochwinnoch Renfrew anyone researching these families ?? Michele __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

KEITH, Hello Shell Leo, I am researching the KEITH line in Paisley. My Great-grandmother was Sarah Keith, born 1842 Parent's; James Keith & Isabell McArthur James Keith's Parent's, George Keith & Janet Walker Married; Feb. 06, 1791 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland. Tom Thompson In Florida.

Thanks for this information. Cheers Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shell Leo" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] ROBERTSON/KEITH m Paisley 8/7/1831

Born abt 1794 Greenock, Renfrew M Donald KEITH abt 1815 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shell Leo" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] ROBERTSON/KEITH m Paisley 8/7/1831 > do you have any more info on mary Orr ? > --- Jan Hunt <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Would anyone on this list be researching the same >> KEITH line? >> >> I can't work out if her parents are Donald KEITH & >> Mary ORR, John KEITH & >> Margaret WALKER, or John KEITH & Elizabeth MCDOUGAL. >> >> Help or suggestions gratefully received. >> >> Cheers >> Jan >> >> >> >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >

AGNES 2 MCALPINE (ALEXANDER 1 ) died 17 Dec 1880 in Barnhill Poorhouse, Springburn, Glasgow. She married JAMES ORR 25 Apr 1825 in West Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland. He was born 1806 in West Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland. Notes for AGNES MCALPINE: When she died in 1880 her usual residence was 138 Main Street, Maryhill, Glasgow. More About AGNES MCALPINE: Cause of Death: Absess. Bronchitis. Medical Information: This was certified by William Love MD. Marriage Notes for AGNES MCALPINE and JAMES ORR: From the OPR: Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland Frame 2168 James Orr Block Maker and Agnes McAlpine both in this parish. Booked 22 April Married 25 April 1825 Children of AGNES MCALPINE and JAMES ORR are: 3. i. JAMES 3 ORR, b. 04 Dec 1836, Old Parish,Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland. ii. HELEN ORR, b. 1843, West Or Old Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland 1 . More About HELEN ORR: Christening: 14 Nov 1843, West Or Old Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

2. WILLIAM 2 PATTISON (JAMES 1 ) was born 1822 in Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, Scotland, and died 08 Apr 1891 in 382 London Road, Glasgow, lanark, Scotland. He married JANE MCDOUGALL 27 Dec 1847 in Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, Scotland. More About WILLIAM PATTISON: Cause of Death: Cancer of the Liver Christening: 15 Dec 1822, Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, Scotland Medical Information: His son William signed the death certificate. Occupation: 1891, Dyers Engine Keeper --- Jan Hunt <[email protected]> wrote: > > Would anyone on this list be researching the same > KEITH line? > > I can't work out if her parents are Donald KEITH & > Mary ORR, John KEITH & > Margaret WALKER, or John KEITH & Elizabeth MCDOUGAL. > > Help or suggestions gratefully received. > > Cheers > Jan > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com