Do you know where your McDougall's came from in Scotland as I have them in two lines of my family tree. Sandy (Wagga x 2) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shell Leo" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 5:10 AM Subject: [Renfrew] pattison/mcdougall > WILLIAM 2 PATTISON (JAMES 1 ) was born 1822 in Abbey > (Paisley), Renfrew, Scotland, and died 08 Apr 1891 in > 382 London > Road, Glasgow, lanark, Scotland. He married JANE > MCDOUGALL 27 Dec 1847 in Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, > Scotland. > More About WILLIAM PATTISON: > Cause of Death: Cancer of the Liver > Christening: 15 Dec 1822, Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, > Scotland > Medical Information: His son William signed the death > certificate. > Occupation: 1891, Dyers Engine Keeper > > Children of WILLIAM PATTISON and JANE MCDOUGALL are: > i. WILLIAM 3 PATTISON, b. 1850, Johnstone, Renfrew, > Scotland; m. ISABELLA; b. 1852, Glasgow, Lanark, > Scotland. > Marriage Notes for WILLIAM PATTISON and ISABELLA: > Dwelling: 68 Canning Street > Census Place: Barony, Lanark, Scotland > Source: FHL Film 0203644 GRO Ref Volume 644-4 EnumDist > 72 Page 15 > Mar r Age Sex Birthplace > William PATTISON M 30 M Johnstone, Renfrew, Scotland > Rel: Head > Occ: Provision Merchant (Master Employing 4 Men) > Isabella PATTISON M 28 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland > Rel: Wife > Annie PATTISON U 27 F Lochwinnock, Renfrew, Scotland > Rel: Sister > Occ: Domestic Servant > ii. ANNIE PATTISON, b. 1852, Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, > Scotland. > iii. JAMES PATTISON, b. 1854, Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, > Scotland. > iv. THOMAS PATTISON, b. 1857, Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, > Scotland. > v. JEAN PATTISON, b. 03 Jul 1859, Old Field, > Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, Scotland. > vi. JANET PATTISON, b. 1862, Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, > Scotland. > vii. AMELIA PATTISON, b. 25 Sep 1865, Old Field, > Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, Scotland. > viii. JOHN PATTISON, b. 1867, Glasgow, Lanark, > Scotland. > ix. CATHERINE PATTISON, b. 1870, Glasgow, Lanark, > Scotland. > 4. x. MARY PATTISON, b. 1848, Johnston, Renfrew, > Scotland; d. 24 May 1908, 1 Blairtum Terrace, > Rutherglen, Lanark, Scotland. > > hi would love to hear from anyone researching this > family thanks Michele > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > >

hi to be honest i dont know where they come from this is an off branch of the my family and im trying to tidy up some loose ends my guess is jane is from paisley but dont quote me on it thanks michele --- alistair Stevenson <[email protected]> wrote: > Do you know where your McDougall's came from in > Scotland as I have them in > two lines of my family tree. Sandy (Wagga x 2) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shell Leo" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 5:10 AM > Subject: [Renfrew] pattison/mcdougall > > > > WILLIAM 2 PATTISON (JAMES 1 ) was born 1822 in > Abbey > > (Paisley), Renfrew, Scotland, and died 08 Apr 1891 > in > > 382 London > > Road, Glasgow, lanark, Scotland. He married JANE > > MCDOUGALL 27 Dec 1847 in Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, > > Scotland. > > More About WILLIAM PATTISON: > > Cause of Death: Cancer of the Liver > > Christening: 15 Dec 1822, Abbey (Paisley), > Renfrew, > > Scotland > > Medical Information: His son William signed the > death > > certificate. > > Occupation: 1891, Dyers Engine Keeper > > > > Children of WILLIAM PATTISON and JANE MCDOUGALL > are: > > i. WILLIAM 3 PATTISON, b. 1850, Johnstone, > Renfrew, > > Scotland; m. ISABELLA; b. 1852, Glasgow, Lanark, > > Scotland. > > Marriage Notes for WILLIAM PATTISON and ISABELLA: > > Dwelling: 68 Canning Street > > Census Place: Barony, Lanark, Scotland > > Source: FHL Film 0203644 GRO Ref Volume 644-4 > EnumDist > > 72 Page 15 > > Mar r Age Sex Birthplace > > William PATTISON M 30 M Johnstone, Renfrew, > Scotland > > Rel: Head > > Occ: Provision Merchant (Master Employing 4 Men) > > Isabella PATTISON M 28 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland > > Rel: Wife > > Annie PATTISON U 27 F Lochwinnock, Renfrew, > Scotland > > Rel: Sister > > Occ: Domestic Servant > > ii. ANNIE PATTISON, b. 1852, Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, > > Scotland. > > iii. JAMES PATTISON, b. 1854, Lochwinnoch, > Renfrew, > > Scotland. > > iv. THOMAS PATTISON, b. 1857, Lochwinnoch, > Renfrew, > > Scotland. > > v. JEAN PATTISON, b. 03 Jul 1859, Old Field, > > Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, Scotland. > > vi. JANET PATTISON, b. 1862, Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, > > Scotland. > > vii. AMELIA PATTISON, b. 25 Sep 1865, Old Field, > > Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, Scotland. > > viii. JOHN PATTISON, b. 1867, Glasgow, Lanark, > > Scotland. > > ix. CATHERINE PATTISON, b. 1870, Glasgow, Lanark, > > Scotland. > > 4. x. MARY PATTISON, b. 1848, Johnston, Renfrew, > > Scotland; d. 24 May 1908, 1 Blairtum Terrace, > > Rutherglen, Lanark, Scotland. > > > > hi would love to hear from anyone researching this > > family thanks Michele > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

MARY 3 PATTISON (WILLIAM 2 , JAMES 1 ) was born 1848 in Johnston, Renfrew, Scotland, and died 24 May 1908 in 1 Blairtum Terrace, Rutherglen, Lanark, Scotland. She married JAMES CROWE. Children of MARY PATTISON and JAMES CROWE are: i. JENNIE 4 CROWE, b. 1872, Glasgow, lanark, Scotland. ii. JAMES CROWE, b. 1874, Glasgow, lanark, Scotland. iii. THOMAS CROWE, b. 1878, Glasgow, lanark, Scotland. iv. MARY CROWE, b. 1880, Glasgow, lanark, Scotland. hi would love to hear from anyone with info on this family thanks Michele __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

WILLIAM 2 PATTISON (JAMES 1 ) was born 1822 in Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, Scotland, and died 08 Apr 1891 in 382 London Road, Glasgow, lanark, Scotland. He married JANE MCDOUGALL 27 Dec 1847 in Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, Scotland. More About WILLIAM PATTISON: Cause of Death: Cancer of the Liver Christening: 15 Dec 1822, Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, Scotland Medical Information: His son William signed the death certificate. Occupation: 1891, Dyers Engine Keeper Children of WILLIAM PATTISON and JANE MCDOUGALL are: i. WILLIAM 3 PATTISON, b. 1850, Johnstone, Renfrew, Scotland; m. ISABELLA; b. 1852, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland. Marriage Notes for WILLIAM PATTISON and ISABELLA: Dwelling: 68 Canning Street Census Place: Barony, Lanark, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203644 GRO Ref Volume 644-4 EnumDist 72 Page 15 Mar r Age Sex Birthplace William PATTISON M 30 M Johnstone, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Provision Merchant (Master Employing 4 Men) Isabella PATTISON M 28 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Wife Annie PATTISON U 27 F Lochwinnock, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Sister Occ: Domestic Servant ii. ANNIE PATTISON, b. 1852, Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, Scotland. iii. JAMES PATTISON, b. 1854, Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, Scotland. iv. THOMAS PATTISON, b. 1857, Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, Scotland. v. JEAN PATTISON, b. 03 Jul 1859, Old Field, Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, Scotland. vi. JANET PATTISON, b. 1862, Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, Scotland. vii. AMELIA PATTISON, b. 25 Sep 1865, Old Field, Lochwinnoch, Renfrew, Scotland. viii. JOHN PATTISON, b. 1867, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland. ix. CATHERINE PATTISON, b. 1870, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland. 4. x. MARY PATTISON, b. 1848, Johnston, Renfrew, Scotland; d. 24 May 1908, 1 Blairtum Terrace, Rutherglen, Lanark, Scotland. hi would love to hear from anyone researching this family thanks Michele __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Charles MORRISON and Agnes CUMMERFORD were my grandparents. Agnes died in 1894 and Charles married Cecilia Morrison PRIMROSE in 1899. Cecilia's parents were James MORRISON and Agnes URQUHART, 5 North St in Paisley. Cecilia was born about 1849. If you have any connection with any of these folks, please get in touch. Regards, Barbara

Hi I am looking for info on William Cuthbertson and Janet Barclay, their marriage was registered in Ardrossan but also Abbey Paisley, trying to find the parents of this couple Thanks Anne

My WILSON's who lived in Elderslie/Johnstone originally came from Fife via Leith, if I can be of any assistance. Sandy ----- Original Message ----- From: "J LOCHRIDGE" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] WILSON and EWING > Hello Mike and Barbara, > There is a death in Elderslie, Renfrewshire in 1893 of a Mary Wilson (other name Ewing) Her birth year seems to be 1827, but I think it is well worth a try. It will cost you for the image in Scotland's People, but if you have a few more searches to do it may be worth the £6.00. Hopefully it will give more clues, at least to her parents. > Good luck with your ongoing research > Johan Lochridge > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Mike Salamon <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, 21 August, 2006 12:03:05 PM > Subject: [Renfrew] WILSON and EWING > > > Hi, > > I've just joined this list. We're researching my wife's family and have > got back to James Wilson and Mary Ewing. > >

I'm also a WILSON, my father's family also lived in Johnstone in Glenifer Tce. My grandfather lived there until his death in 1951. Sandy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Salamon" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 9:03 PM Subject: [Renfrew] WILSON and EWING > Hi, > > I've just joined this list. We're researching my wife's family and have > got back to James Wilson and Mary Ewing. > > They married 25th March 1848, Abbey (Paisley) (Source: OPR Banns & > Marriages Search, ScotlandsPeople site). They appear on the 1851 census > - James (age 24) and Mary (age 26) with son John (age 2); all born in > Johnstone, Renfrewshire. James is a Handloom weaver and they are living > at 31 McDowall St, Johnstone. > > We're now having difficulty in tracing them back any further. The births > information from searches of the OPR Births/Baptisims and search of 1841 > census doesn't give clear lines to either of these. > > We were wondering whether anyone on this list might have either or both > of them in their families or have any other information (or ideas) which > might help trying to trace them > > Mike & Barbara > >

Hi, I've just joined this list. We're researching my wife's family and have got back to James Wilson and Mary Ewing. They married 25th March 1848, Abbey (Paisley) (Source: OPR Banns & Marriages Search, ScotlandsPeople site). They appear on the 1851 census - James (age 24) and Mary (age 26) with son John (age 2); all born in Johnstone, Renfrewshire. James is a Handloom weaver and they are living at 31 McDowall St, Johnstone. We're now having difficulty in tracing them back any further. The births information from searches of the OPR Births/Baptisims and search of 1841 census doesn't give clear lines to either of these. We were wondering whether anyone on this list might have either or both of them in their families or have any other information (or ideas) which might help trying to trace them Mike & Barbara

Hello Mike and Barbara, There is a death in Elderslie, Renfrewshire in 1893 of a Mary Wilson (other name Ewing) Her birth year seems to be 1827, but I think it is well worth a try. It will cost you for the image in Scotland's People, but if you have a few more searches to do it may be worth the £6.00. Hopefully it will give more clues, at least to her parents. Good luck with your ongoing research Johan Lochridge ----- Original Message ---- From: Mike Salamon <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, 21 August, 2006 12:03:05 PM Subject: [Renfrew] WILSON and EWING Hi, I've just joined this list. We're researching my wife's family and have got back to James Wilson and Mary Ewing.

Dear Barbara, As far as I know Eastwood parish still exists and is in East Renfrewshire. My Tennant family baptised all their children there in the late 1700s. Regards, Jeanette. ---- Barbara Lewis <[email protected]> wrote: > Listers, my kin lived in Eastwood Parish, Renfrewshire in the 1841 census.....is that now Pollokshaws, and is that now part of Glasgow in Lanark??? > > I'd appreciate some help here....I've having trouble bringing it up on maps.... > > thank you > Barb L. >

Hi Barbara, It just depends on what years you are looking at - 1841 it was Renfrewshire. -- Eastwood (562) was in Renfrewshire till 1926, when it transferred to Glasgow (Lanarkshire) as, Eastwood (644-25) 1927 - 1934. It the came under Pollok Registration District from 1935 as, Pollok (644-18) 1935 - 1955. Then a number change to, Pollok (644-11) 1956 - 1963. --- There were some more number changes from 1964 onwards. Jack

thank you so much! Barb L. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Muirhead" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 4:53 PM Subject: RE: [Renfrew] Question about Eastwood Parish > Still there Barb, but you need to look for Thornliebank. > > The best way to see it is to Google your way to Mapquest UK and then type > in > Thornliebank for the city. > > Cheers!!! > > Don Muirhead > Port Dover, ON CA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barbara Lewis [SMTP:[email protected]] > Sent: August 18, 2006 5:42 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Renfrew] Question about Eastwood Parish > > << File: ATT00000.txt; charset = iso-8859-1 >> > > >

Still there Barb, but you need to look for Thornliebank. The best way to see it is to Google your way to Mapquest UK and then type in Thornliebank for the city. Cheers!!! Don Muirhead Port Dover, ON CA -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Lewis [SMTP:[email protected]] Sent: August 18, 2006 5:42 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Renfrew] Question about Eastwood Parish << File: ATT00000.txt; charset = iso-8859-1 >>

Listers, my kin lived in Eastwood Parish, Renfrewshire in the 1841 census.....is that now Pollokshaws, and is that now part of Glasgow in Lanark??? I'd appreciate some help here....I've having trouble bringing it up on maps.... thank you Barb L.

Thank you very much Mark and Nuala for your considered answers to my questions. I've lost count of the amount of times I've asked the same question on different Scottish lists in the past. The usual, singular answer is that "there are none, none whatsoever!" Even if the record merely refers to the rental of a shroud or 'Mortcloth' (I've found myself repeating this phrase with increasing wonder and incredulity!), then it is better than nothing and might at least give a date and name of a parent, which is more than I have at present for many key family members. Seek and ye shall find! Thanks again Angus

Angus, The LDS as a rule are not interested in the deaths/burials, as a result they do not normally extract them from the OPR. If you look at the film of the actual OPR you often find many records. If you live within range of London the SOG has a good range of Scottish films. http://www.sog.org.uk/sogcat/access/ this will let you see if they have the parish you want. Nuala

Angus, Generally the C of S didn't record deaths as death was just seen as a gateway to either eternal glory or damnation :-). However in many parishes the poor folks couldn't afford a coffin for their relatives (remember people were not cremated until the modern age) so the parish would have a shroud, called a mortcloth, which it would hire out to the relatives of a deceased so the body could be conveyed with dignity for burial. The record of these mortcloth rentals is what often passes for death registers in the OPR. Very few churches actually recorded deaths. Hope this helps Mark Mark Sutherland-Fisher Director Fisher (Holiday Enterprises) Ltd email: [email protected] web site: www.highland-family-heritage.co.uk Tel/Fax: 00 44 (0) 1862 871877 Mobile: 00 44 (0) 7765 272815 Skype call name: john.sutherland.fisher -----Original Message----- From: Angus Ferguson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 10 August 2006 14:15 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Scottish equivalent of C of E Bishop's Transcripts? On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:12:58 +0100, Mark Sutherland-Fisher, <[email protected]>, wrote > It was the attempt by Charles I to force the English Episcopalian system > with Bishops and Archbishops on the Scottish Presbyterian church which > ultimately cost him his head. The Covenanters (the Scottish Lords and their > supporters opposed to the English church being forced on Scotland) sided > with Oliver Cromwell initially and decisively against Charles and the > Archbishop he imposed on Scotland was murdered. Trust me to stumble blindly into one of the primary causes of the Civil War! I knew that it had been sparked in Scotland, but had forgotten the reasons. Thank you Mark and Irene. I have another question though. Whilst browsing the LDS website, I noted that there are some OPR/Kirk Session death records predating 1855. Are these as limited as the LDS Catalogue suggests (very few individual parishes), or are they more extensive? Is there an aggregated database and if so, where is this held? Or, are they strewn across Scotland in the only parishes noted on the LDS catalogue? In hope. Angus > > Mark Sutherland-Fisher > Director > Fisher (Holiday Enterprises) Ltd > email: [email protected] > web site: www.highland-family-heritage.co.uk > Tel/Fax: 00 44 (0) 1862 871877 > Mobile: 00 44 (0) 7765 272815 > Skype call name: john.sutherland.fisher > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 10 August 2006 09:47 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Scottish equivalent of C of E Bishop's Transcripts? > > > In a message dated 09/08/2006 23:49:44 GMT Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Does anyone know whether there are Scottish versions of the Bishop's > Transcripts of pre 1837 BMBs kept by the Church of England? I imagine the > Church of Scotland parishes might have kept these, but did the non - > established churches keep them also? > > > > There were no Bishops in the Church of Scotland. It was and is > Presbyterian. > Attempts from over the border to introduce episcopalianism were strongly > resisted ...eg Covenanters. So there are no BTs > Irene > > > >

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:12:58 +0100, Mark Sutherland-Fisher, <[email protected]>, wrote > It was the attempt by Charles I to force the English Episcopalian system > with Bishops and Archbishops on the Scottish Presbyterian church which > ultimately cost him his head. The Covenanters (the Scottish Lords and their > supporters opposed to the English church being forced on Scotland) sided > with Oliver Cromwell initially and decisively against Charles and the > Archbishop he imposed on Scotland was murdered. Trust me to stumble blindly into one of the primary causes of the Civil War! I knew that it had been sparked in Scotland, but had forgotten the reasons. Thank you Mark and Irene. I have another question though. Whilst browsing the LDS website, I noted that there are some OPR/Kirk Session death records predating 1855. Are these as limited as the LDS Catalogue suggests (very few individual parishes), or are they more extensive? Is there an aggregated database and if so, where is this held? Or, are they strewn across Scotland in the only parishes noted on the LDS catalogue? In hope. Angus > > Mark Sutherland-Fisher > Director > Fisher (Holiday Enterprises) Ltd > email: [email protected] > web site: www.highland-family-heritage.co.uk > Tel/Fax: 00 44 (0) 1862 871877 > Mobile: 00 44 (0) 7765 272815 > Skype call name: john.sutherland.fisher > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 10 August 2006 09:47 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Scottish equivalent of C of E Bishop's Transcripts? > > > In a message dated 09/08/2006 23:49:44 GMT Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Does anyone know whether there are Scottish versions of the Bishop's > Transcripts of pre 1837 BMBs kept by the Church of England? I imagine the > Church of Scotland parishes might have kept these, but did the non - > established churches keep them also? > > > > There were no Bishops in the Church of Scotland. It was and is > Presbyterian. > Attempts from over the border to introduce episcopalianism were strongly > resisted ...eg Covenanters. So there are no BTs > Irene > > > >

Most Kirk Session records are held by the National Archives of Scotland in Edinburgh .... most but not all. Some are still with the churches but there is pressure for them all to be handed in, for filming if nothing else. The GRO(S) intends to put them online ..at scotlandspeople I presume. But it will take a while I should think. There is a book called ' Key to the Parochial Registers of Scotland' by V. Ben Bloxham which is a revised version of a list of OPRs published in Edinburgh in 1872. The later book was published in 1970 and a second edition appeared in 1979. There is another thinner book 'The Parishes, Registers and Registrars of Scotland' published by SAFHS (no author) which lists the parishes in alphabetical order with dates for bapts, marrs and deaths but it doesn't go into as much details as the Bloxham book. For example Neilston deaths dates given in SAFHS book are 1744-1816 and 1822 -1851 but Bloxham says no entries Nov 1771 -Jan 1776; only 4 in 1777-78 in the period 1776-1783; only 4 entries between 1793-1805 and only 2 in 1814/16 between 1811-1822. So not quite as rosy as picture as the SAFHS book. Diane Baptie has written a couple of books also published by SAFHS ( I suspect she wrote the other one too) called 'Parish Registers in the kirk session records of the Church of Scotland' and 'Registers of the Secession churches of Scotland' Irene