I have a Janet MCNEIL m. Allan MCNAB 11 November 1855 Eaglesham, Renfrew, Scotland. Sandy (Australia)

In a message dated 03/10/2006 15:57:04 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Hi , I have the 1881 census for Scotland and couldn't find James, but found this family who might be his; 53, VENNEL, WEST GREENOCK. JAMES MCNEILL AGE 53 BORN GLASGOW MARTHA MCNEILL AGE 50 BORN GREENOCK MAGGIE MCNEILL AGE 17 UNMARRIED BORN GREENOCK LIZZIE MCNEILL AGE 14 BORN GREENOCK Here is the full transcription as per LDS CD set............ Irene 53 Vennel West Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203573 GRO Ref Volume 564-3 EnumDist 7 Page 17 James MC NEIL M 53 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Seaman Martha MC NEIL M 50 F Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Wife Maggie MC NEIL U 17 F Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Mill Worker Lizzie MC NEIL 14 F Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur

Hi Den, Could you give us the ages of Margaret & James? Cheers Lorraine -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, 2 October 2006 11:02 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [SCT-RENFREW] MCNEILL - Greenock - Problem!! Hi I wonder if anyone can help me solve a problem. I have a record of a marriage between James McNeill and Margaret Byrne June 1901 in St Mary's RC Greenock

Hi James McNeill was 25 in 1901 & Margaret Byrne was 23. Den

Hi Thanks for the reply and info. Sorry forgot to put a bit more info on previous message. According to the marriage record his mother was Martha Finnigan and James was 25yrs old giving a birth date of about 1876.… Thanks for trying Regards Den

Sorry for the formatting issue on the last email. I found this on _www.familysearch.org_ (http://www.familysearch.org) : JAMES MCNEILL Male ____________________________________ Event(s): Birth: 02 APR 1860 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland Christening: Death: Burial: ____________________________________ Parents: Father: _JAMES MCNEILL_ Mother: _MARTHA MCPHERSON_ Children of James and Martha are: International Genealogical Index - British Isles CATHERINE MACNEIL - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 13 DEC 1851 West Or Old Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland JEAN MCNEIL - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Birth: 14 DEC 1865 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland MARGARET MCNEIL - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Birth: 03 JAN 1864 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland RICHARD MCNEILL - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Male Birth: 03 MAR 1862 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland JAMES MCNEILL - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Male Birth: 02 APR 1860 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland ANDREW MCNEILL - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Male Christening: 01 FEB 1855 West Or Old Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland In a message dated 10/2/2006 8:02:45 AM Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Hi I wonder if anyone can help me solve a problem. I have a record of a marriage between James McNeill and Margaret Byrne June 1901 in St Mary's RC Greenock. I have managed to trace Margaret & her family on the 1901 census but have been unable to find James McNeill. He stated at his marriage that he lived at 35 Nicholson St, Greenock and his parents were James & Martha McNeill. I've searched on Scotlandspeople but have been unable to find any trace of them can anyone help or come up with any ideas? Thank you Regards Den

fOUN THIS ON _WWW.FAMILYSEARCH.ORG_ (http://www.FAMILYSEARCH.ORG) : ____________________________________ JAMES MCNEILL Male ____________________________________ Event(s): Birth: 02 APR 1860 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland Christening: Death: Burial: ____________________________________ Parents: Father: _JAMES MCNEILL_ (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/igi/individual_record.asp?recid=500200049215&lds=1&region=2&frompage=1) _Family_ (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/igi/family_group_record.asp?familyid=176595076&indi_id=500200049215&lds=1&region=2&frompage=1) Mother: _MARTHA MCPHERSON_ (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/igi/individual_record.asp?recid=500200049216&lds=1&region=2&frompage=1) In a message dated 10/2/2006 8:02:45 AM Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Hi I wonder if anyone can help me solve a problem. I have a record of a marriage between James McNeill and Margaret Byrne June 1901 in St Mary's RC Greenock. I have managed to trace Margaret & her family on the 1901 census but have been unable to find James McNeill. He stated at his marriage that he lived at 35 Nicholson St, Greenock and his parents were James & Martha McNeill. I've searched on Scotlandspeople but have been unable to find any trace of them can anyone help or come up with any ideas? Thank you Regards Den

Hi I wonder if anyone can help me solve a problem. I have a record of a marriage between James McNeill and Margaret Byrne June 1901 in St Mary's RC Greenock. I have managed to trace Margaret & her family on the 1901 census but have been unable to find James McNeill. He stated at his marriage that he lived at 35 Nicholson St, Greenock and his parents were James & Martha McNeill. I've searched on Scotlandspeople but have been unable to find any trace of them can anyone help or come up with any ideas? Thank you Regards Den

unsubscribe

List. I am researching PERKS. An ancestor. (my grandfathers half brother) from Dorset(Weymouth) went up to Gourock,and worked in the Torpedo factory.. Sydney George Dawson PERKS, baptized. May be known as George Sydney PERKS..? died in 1941 aged 56 I understand he had children and that he also had some brothers. Anything would be helpful.. Lew.

List. I am researching PERKS. An ancestor. (my grandfathers half brother) from Dorset(Weymouth) went up to Gourock,and worked in the Torpedo factory.. Sydney George Dawson PERKS, baptized. May be known as George Sydney PERKS..? died in 1941 aged 56 I understand he had children and that he also had some brothers. Anything would be helpful.. Lew.

1841 Census > > Piece: SCT1841/565 Place: Houston & > Killellan-Renfrewshire Enumeration > District: 3 > > Civil Parish: Houston & Killellan Ecclesiastical > Parish, Village or Island: > - > > Folio: 3 Page: 10 > > Address: Crosslee > > Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation > Where Born Remarks > > > MCALPIN Alexander M 80 Labourer > Outside Census County (1841) > > > ORR Agnes F 30 Renfrewshire > > ORR Mary F 14 Renfrewshire > > ORR Alexander M 10 Cotton Piecer > Renfrewshire > > ORR James M 4 Unknown hi just wondering if any one is researching this family or if any one has any additional info thanks Michele __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Hello everyone, We are looking for a John Howden also spelt 'Houden' who is on the English 1841 Census. Aged 55 , therefore born abt 1786, his occupation was 'woodman', at Clumber Park [ Duke of Newcastle 's estate] -he was living at Manton Lodge, near Worksop, with his wife Mary [nee Andrews, aged 42 ] and their 6 children, in Nottinghamshire. The eldest child at this time was a daughter, a dressmaker, living at home, aged 16 years. There was a son born before her that appears to have died quite young. Would also like to find where & when they were married probably around 1820, give or take a year or two. On this census it notes that he was born in Scotland . We have no idea where in Scotland he was from, his family origins, parents, siblings etc. and relatives. His son James, who was 4 yrs old on this census, is listed on the 1861 census as a 24 yr old. In August 1861 he emigrated to New Zealand on the ship the Black Eagle & arrived there in November. James' younger brother William Douglas Howden, [aged 9 months on the 1841 census], also on the 1861 census was at the same lodging as James. He later married as an adult and emigrated to USA sometime in the 1860's. If anyone is able to help us find where their father was born in Scotland and any of their family ancestry we would be delighted to hear from you. Regards and best wishes, Noeline and Aileen . [NZ]

And so were our LOCHEAD. FYI : for the 150th anniversary of the Duchess of Argyle and Jane Gifford arrival to New Zealand, a committee printed a complete booklet (approx 40 pages) on the subject. ISBN 0-473-01640-0. 2 questions on the subject : If anyone has ever access to the Greenock Advertiser or the Glasgow Herald of 24 April 1842 archives, I'd be pleased to have a copy of the original Advertisement for both ships. (I have a transcription). Does anyone know from which pier in Greenock the ships departed ? Christine -----Original Message----- From: Ann Avery Hunter [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, 6 August 2006 2:38 a.m. To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Duchess of Argyle Also on board the "Duchess" were my gr.gr.grandfather's sister, Jean (Calder) Barr, her husband John, a stone mason, and their five children. Jean was born in Kilbarchan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Aitken" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 10:17 AM Subject: [Renfrew] Duchess of Argyle > Hi Bruce > My gt gt grandfather was on The "Duchess" too- James McIntosh from > Blacklands, Paisley (he was a calico printer) and Christina (nee Munro) > There is a great rootsweb page on the history of the Duchess and the Jane > Gifford's voyages and the fact that they were sponsored by the Presbyterian > Church to get some of their members out of the terrible poverty of Glasgow > in those times > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ourstuff/VoyageofDuchess.htm > It makes interesting reading even if your haven't a family that emigrated > from Scotland > > Donna > Kiwi in Vancouver, Canada > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bruce" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 12:55 AM > Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Emailing: PASSENGER LISTS TO NEW ZEALAND > > > > My wifes G.G grandparents were from Paisley area and emigrated to > > Auckland, New Zealand on the "Duchess of Argyle" in 1842 and another > > vessel was the "Jane Gifford." Robert ANDREW was a Weaver but became a > > farmer in New Zealand. I think these were about the first vessels to bring > > about 500 Scots to New Zealand from the Paisley area. > > Ships sailed from Greenock. > > Regards > > Bruce, > > New Zealand. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 7:28 PM > > Subject: Re: [Renfrew] Emailing: PASSENGER LISTS TO NEW ZEALAND > > > > > >> When I was on holiday in Wellington earlier this year I visited the Te > >> Papa > >> museum, which had an exhibition about NZ immigration. One of the panels > >> talked > >> about a bunch of people coming from Paisley in the early 1840s. Anyone > >> know > >> anything more about this? > >> > >> Irene

> I'd be interested to find an example of this happening in lowland families. > I've only ever come across it in highland families, I have this happening in Norwich, Norfolk, UK with my DAWSONS. Two christened as Jonathan, one later known as john. Born only a couple of years apart. However, there was BRODIE woman from Paisley in the family, so that may explain it. Hermit Researching BRODIE & CHRISTIE in Paisley or district pre 1850.

Hi Listers, A grateful thanks to Robert McIlroy and John Carswell for locating Crossflat in Renfrewshire. You fellows did better than the Central Library on High Street in Paisley and a couple of paid researchers. Another helpful fellow previously located a Crossflat near Muirkirk, about 2/3rd miles from Muirkirk, Ayrshire and close to the border of Lanarkshire. My ancestor, Margaret Watson Ritchie ( parents, William and Janet Willson Watson) kept listing Crossflat, Renf, on the various Census sheets. She was born on May 15, 1830, her father's occupation Weaver's Warper on her death record of 1881. A researcher said her father was a coal miner in Midlothian, and the Census sheet from there lists that as the daughter, Margaret Watson's birthplace?? I just couldn't relate to Crossflat Ayrshire, Roslin, Midlothian and Crossflat, Renfrewshire in the 1830's. Pretty fancy traveling for a coal miner or weaver???. I sure would like to find information on Margaret's parents. Margaret married George Ritchie in 1854, Hutchesontown, Glasgow, and the family moved to Paisley about 1860. P.S. I listed Mrs. Fullerton and the nursery on my inquiry as they were involved with the party in Paisley and both from Crossflat in 1874, and that gave me another source for insisting on a Crossflat in Refrewshire. Any suggestions of where to look for the 1830 information? Thanks for your assistance, Sally Drain - in still hot and humid Florida

In a message dated 18/09/2006 04:34:28 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Though your conclusion is likely correct, you should keep in mind that there are several instances where two children in a particular family have been given the same name without the older one's having died. This sometimes occurred when grandparents on both sides had the same given name, or when, with the high rate of child mortality, the parents simply wanted to insure that the name would pass down in the family. I'd be interested to find an example of this happening in lowland families. I've only ever come across it in highland families, and there it was very common ..even up to the early part of the 20th century. Irene

Hi Angus, Re. > I would suggest that the Thomas of 1812 died in infancy and in 1814, a new > son was given the name of Thomas. >> My thoughts also; common sense dictates this. Though your conclusion is likely correct, you should keep in mind that there are several instances where two children in a particular family have been given the same name without the older one's having died. This sometimes occurred when grandparents on both sides had the same given name, or when, with the high rate of child mortality, the parents simply wanted to insure that the name would pass down in the family. I initially made the assumption in my own family of the older child's having died and so was quite surprised when I subsequently came across a census record with them both still living. Since then I have learned that this was not an infrequent occurrence. Good luck! Maureen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angus Ferguson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [Renfrew] MURRAY/Greenock: Birth date conundrum > Hi Bobbie, > > You said: > >> I would suggest that the Thomas of 1812 died in infancy and in 1814, a >> new >> son was given the name of Thomas. > > My thoughts also; common sense dictates this. > >> I have also found that the ages given in >> a census, particularly the early ones, are not always correct. > > All the other enumerated ages with this family are though correct. > > There are/have been so many recording mistakes both present and past with > this family that it seems so unlikely. Unless someone can suggest why I > should not, I'll go with the 1814 birth. > > Angus >

Hello Sally, I have pasted below all the Crossflat references from the 1881 census for Renfrew.The Fullertons appear below . Crossflat appears to be in Abbey Parish Regards, John Carswell, Australia. Interests Carswell, Stevenson, Gemmell, Howie, McKay, tenant farmers Neilston Parish. Dwelling: Crossflat Farm Census Place: Kilbarchan, Renfrew, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203577 GRO Ref Volume 568 EnumDist 7 Page 8 Dwelling: Crossflat House Glasgow Rd Census Place: Abbey, Renfrew, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203584 GRO Ref Volume 573 EnumDist 83 Page 1 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Alexander FULLERTON W 60 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Engineer & Iron Founder Employing 240 Men &35 Boys Elizabeth FULLERTON U 30 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Alexander FULLERTON U 29 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Enginer & Iron Foubndr William P. FULLERTON U 25 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Solicitor Duncan FULLERTON U 22 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Iron Moulder John FULLERTON U 20 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Yarn Merchant Mary A. FULLERTON U 18 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar Janet M. FULLERTON U 13 F Ardrossan, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar Euphemia MC CORQUODALE U 20 F Lismore, Argyll, Scotland Rel: Serv Domestic Occ: Cook (Domestic) Catherine PAUL U 19 F Craignise, Argyll, Scotland Rel: Serv Occ: Table Maid (Dom) Jane GILLIES W 34 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Serv Occ: Laundress (Dom) Dwelling: Crossflat Lodge E Glasgow Rd Census Place: Abbey, Renfrew, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203584 GRO Ref Volume 573 EnumDist 83 Page 1 Dwelling: Crossflat Lodge W Glasgow Rd Census Place: Abbey, Renfrew, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203584 GRO Ref Volume 573 EnumDist 83 Page 1 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Margaret COCHRANE W 75 F Galston, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Lodge Keeper Dwelling: Gardeners House Glasgow Rd Crossflat Census Place: Abbey, Renfrew, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203584 GRO Ref Volume 573 EnumDist 83 Page 1 Dwelling: Gardeners House Glasgow Rd Crossflat Census Place: Abbey, Renfrew, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203584 GRO Ref Volume 573 EnumDist 83 Page 1 Marr Age Sex Birthplace George LISTER M 37 M Dalmenny, Edinburgh, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Gardener (Dom Serv) Dwelling: West Crossflat Census Place: Abbey, Renfrew, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203584 GRO Ref Volume 573 EnumDist 88 Page 37 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Agnes Mc I. G. PAUL W 52 F Barrhead, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Nursery & Florist Employing 8 Men 2 Boys ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Drain" <[email protected]> To: "Post" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:41 AM Subject: [SCT-RENFREW] Crossflat, Renfrewshire > Listers, > Seeking location of Crossflat, Renfrewshire. On 1881 Census my ancestor, > Margaret > Watson Ritchie gives Crossflat as her birthplace i 1830. > I have a newpaper article from 1874 which mentions Crossflat Nursery > furnishing decorations for a party and a Mrs. Fullerton from Crossflat in > attendance. > It would be helpful in trying to locate her parish birth records and > information on her parents, which are given as William and Jane Wilson > Watson, his occupation, Weaver's Warper on Margaret Ritchie's death > record of 1881. > Thanks for any help, > Sally Drain > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Sally Two areas in Renfrewshire I am aware of that have the name Crossflat. Crossflat Farm is on the road between the villages of Lochwinnoch and Howwood, in the 1881 Census would be listed in either the parish of Lochwinnoch or Kilbarchan, I think. There is an area in Paisley known as Crossflat and would probably be in Abbey Parish in 1881 Census. Hope this helps. Regards, Robert McIlroy