Colin, I spent a long time chasing the 'wrong' family of Valentines in Kincardine, but decided to track down as much info as I could to see if I could link my 'wrong' line with my 'correct' line. As a result I now have quite a lot of information to hand. I can't find any link with your family, but I can give you some information which may be of help. This is the info I have concerning your family. Descendants of Robert Valentine 1 Robert Valentine d: Bef. 1860 .. +Ann Beattie m: July 24, 1819 in Marykirk, Kincardine, Scotland d: Bef. 1867 ........ 2 Robert Valentine b: June 15, 1820 d: October 15, 1867 in East Drum (?) Kincardine ............ +Caroline Mary Crowe b: 1840 m: June 21, 1860 in Laurencekirk, Kincardine, Scotland d: 1891 in Logie Pert ................... 3 James Valentine b: January 26, 1863 in Marykirk, Kincardine, Scotland ................... 3 John Crowe Valentine b: January 6, 1865 in Marykirk, Kincardine, Scotland ................... 3 Mary Elizabeth Valentine b: February 5, 1867 in Marykirk, Kincardine, Scotland I also checked the 1881 census for the family, and found the following entry. North Water Bridge Census Place: Logie Pert, Forfar, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203495 GRO Ref Volume 304 EnumDist 1 Page 1 Marr Age Sex Birthplace James LYALL M 71 M Laurencekirk, Kincardine, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Inspector Of Poor & Treasurer School Board Mary LYALL M 61 F Laurencekirk, Kincardine, Scotland Rel: Wife Mary E. VALLENTINE 14 F Marykirk, Kincardine, Scotland Rel: Grand Dau Occ: Scholar Charlotte DUNCAN U 56 F Laurenckirk, Kincardine, Scotland Rel: Visitor Occ: Cook Domestic Servant By 1881 Robert Valentine had died, I don't know where Caroline was, but Mary was living with her grandmother. Mary Duncan married James Lyall in Laurencekirk in 1852 (IGI), so I am quite sure that Mary Lyall is Caroline's mother. I would also make a guess, and suggest that Charlotte Duncan is Mary's sister. If I do manage to make a connection with your family and mine I will let you know. Happy Hunting Doreen Cuthbert Fife