Before Ian replies to this, I would just like to throw in the thought that in looking at these names, it is important not to place too much reliance on the orthographic practices of potentially non Gaelic speaking second parties, as a means of tracing whether or not a family has an Irish origin. My own view is that Mc having an origin in Ireland is not correct, but at the same time, consideration needs to be given to what "Ireland" means culturally in a Highland Gaelic speaking context, particularly in what might loosely be termed folklore, which is actually about transmitting how things came to be, rather than actual historical fact. This relates (in my view) to cultural origins rather than necessarily specifically to an actual ancestor/family origin in Ireland, although of course this is possible. Care is needed all round! Best wishes James > From: cilurnum@googlemail.com > To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 12:17:05 +0000 > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > > It is often said, probably quite wrongly that Mc has an origin in Ireland. If this were > true, I believe it is known that people from Ireland settled in Mull many years ago. > I would be interested to know how those with families using Mac and others using Mc are > recorded in your records. > > Janet > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Phillips" <mullgenealogy@gmail.com> > To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 10:23 AM > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > > > > Hi, > > > > For what its worth I tend to agree with James. > > > > If you look at the census records some areas where recorded as 'Mc' and > > other areas 'Mac'. What I'm not sure off is why when children (and I guess > > that in most cases it would have been children who learnt to read and write > > first in a family) started to write they used 'Mc' or 'Mac'. I guess this > > could have been down to the teacher. Just a thought. > > > > Ian > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My Grandfather was Macquarie, Mcquarie, M'quarie and any combination of capital Q's, double r's, y's, the list goes on and on. However we spoke Erse or Irish, I don't know when they would have started thinking of themselves as Scot's/Irish. A lot of politics and sectarianism rolled into this one. However, I agree that looking at Gaelic name rendered into English by some English speaking official, lowland Scot, bilingual Gael, the only thing you can be sure of, is, that it is probably no right. Better we just revert to our proper names, though I suppose that would cause major arguments too!! Ni bhéarfainn broim dreólín ar dhuilleog cuillin agus is beag an puth gaoth é sin? Lachan Iain MacGuaire On 22 November 2013 13:34, James Beaton <james_beaton18@hotmail.com> wrote: > Before Ian replies to this, I would just like to throw in the thought that > in looking at these names, it is important not to place too much reliance > on the orthographic practices of potentially non Gaelic speaking second > parties, as a means of tracing whether or not a family has an Irish origin. > My own view is that Mc having an origin in Ireland is not correct, but at > the same time, consideration needs to be given to what "Ireland" means > culturally in a Highland Gaelic speaking context, particularly in what > might loosely be termed folklore, which is actually about transmitting how > things came to be, rather than actual historical fact. This relates (in my > view) to cultural origins rather than necessarily specifically to an actual > ancestor/family origin in Ireland, although of course this is possible. > Care is needed all round! > Best wishes > James > > > From: cilurnum@googlemail.com > > To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com > > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 12:17:05 +0000 > > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > > > > It is often said, probably quite wrongly that Mc has an origin in > Ireland. If this were > > true, I believe it is known that people from Ireland settled in Mull > many years ago. > > I would be interested to know how those with families using Mac and > others using Mc are > > recorded in your records. > > > > Janet > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ian Phillips" <mullgenealogy@gmail.com> > > To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 10:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > For what its worth I tend to agree with James. > > > > > > If you look at the census records some areas where recorded as 'Mc' and > > > other areas 'Mac'. What I'm not sure off is why when children (and I > guess > > > that in most cases it would have been children who learnt to read and > write > > > first in a family) started to write they used 'Mc' or 'Mac'. I guess > this > > > could have been down to the teacher. Just a thought. > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > --- > > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > > http://www.avast.com > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Sláinte, Lachaidh *Tha mo bhàta-foluaimein loma-làn easgannan?*

You will note the care with which I worded my enquiry. It does seem to have gathered some interest so hopefully we will hear one way or the other. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Beaton" <james_beaton18@hotmail.com> To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > Before Ian replies to this, I would just like to throw in the thought that in looking at > these names, it is important not to place too much reliance on the orthographic > practices of potentially non Gaelic speaking second parties, as a means of tracing > whether or not a family has an Irish origin. My own view is that Mc having an origin in > Ireland is not correct, but at the same time, consideration needs to be given to what > "Ireland" means culturally in a Highland Gaelic speaking context, particularly in what > might loosely be termed folklore, which is actually about transmitting how things came > to be, rather than actual historical fact. This relates (in my view) to cultural origins > rather than necessarily specifically to an actual ancestor/family origin in Ireland, > although of course this is possible. Care is needed all round! > Best wishes > James > --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

On 11/22/13, James Beaton <james_beaton18@hotmail.com> wrote: > Before Ian replies to this, I would just like to throw in the thought that in looking at these names, it is important not to place too much reliance on the orthographic practices of potentially non Gaelic speaking second parties, as a means of tracing whether or not a family has an Irish origin. My own view is that Mc having an origin in Ireland is not correct, but at the same time, consideration needs to be given to what "Ireland" means culturally in a Highland Gaelic speaking context, particularly in what might loosely be termed folklore, which is actually about transmitting how things came to be, rather than actual historical fact. This relates (in my view) to cultural origins rather than necessarily specifically to an actual ancestor/family origin in Ireland, although of course this is possible. Care is needed all round! > Best wishes > James > > > From: cilurnum@googlemail.com > > To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com > > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 12:17:05 +0000 > > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > > > > It is often said, probably quite wrongly that Mc has an origin in Ireland. If this were > > true, I believe it is known that people from Ireland settled in Mull many years ago. > > I would be interested to know how those with families using Mac and others using Mc are > > recorded in your records. > > > > Janet > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ian Phillips" <mullgenealogy@gmail.com> > > To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 10:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > For what its worth I tend to agree with James. > > > > > > If you look at the census records some areas where recorded as 'Mc' and > > > other areas 'Mac'. What I'm not sure off is why when children (and I guess > > > that in most cases it would have been children who learnt to read and write > > > first in a family) started to write they used 'Mc' or 'Mac'. I guess this > > > could have been down to the teacher. Just a thought. > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > --- > > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. > > http://www.avast.com(http://www.avast.com/) > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >