The marriage entry in the OPR's (Scotlandspeople) show the marriage took place right enough but has been written in later in 1854, along with the entries of all their issue underneath. Perhaps a mistake was made during transcription by the session Clerk John McDonald at the time, although their first child is mentioned as born 1825. Donald McCormick Ardchiavaig and Margrate McKinnan were married on the 11 January 1823 John McCormick born 20 May 1825 Janet McCormick born 28 July 1827 Cormick MCormick born 14 July 1829 Angus McCormick 28 April 1831 Malcolm McCormick born 12 August 1833 Catherine McCormick born 14 August 1836 No mention of Betty there although her birth is in the records in 1820 to a Donald McCormick Crofter in Uisken and Margaret McKinnon, so perhaps 2 couples with same name, although records do not show any marriages for either couple at the time only this later mention. Usually if a child had been illegitimate it was made legitimate on the marriage of the parents. Margaret (Melrose) On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 5:07 AM, Linda M. Towne <[email protected]>wrote: > Hello all. > In the baptism registers (OPR), when it says 'lawful' son or > daughter, that means that the parents were married at the time of the > baptism, correct? > > I'm asking because I have Donald McCormick marrying Margaret McKinnon 11 > Jan 1823 but their lawful daughter Betty baptised 18 Nov 1820 > > Does that mean that there were probably TWO couples with those names at > the time? Or am I mis-interpreting the meaning of lawful? > > I checked Ian's site (www.mullgenealogy.co.uk) as well as Michael's site > (www.mullfamilies.co.uk) and they both show Betty as a daughter of the > Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon who married in 1823. > > > Thoughts? Thanks! > > Linda > > -- > Linda MacCormick Towne > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Sorry I haven't been paying strict attention to the discussion on this couple so I am not sure who is looking for what. However, this Margaret McKinnon daughter of Angus McKinnon and Janet McKinnon was the only member of her family NOT to come to Ontario. The rest of them lived in Erin Township, and I think some of the McCormack children must have come, as I have seen a letter from a McCormack living near here to a McKinnon in Erin beginning "dear cousin". There was someone at MUGG called Margaret who is descended from this couple and had done extensive work on them. I am pretty sure if you check back in the Mull website archives you will find emails from her. I have not worked on my McKinnon files in quite a while, and that plus a new computer, makes this answer a little vague. I hope in the fall to get back to them. Hope this helps a little. Elaine Robinson Georgetown Ontario -----Original Message----- From: margaret murray Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 3:36 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon The marriage entry in the OPR's (Scotlandspeople) show the marriage took place right enough but has been written in later in 1854, along with the entries of all their issue underneath. Perhaps a mistake was made during transcription by the session Clerk John McDonald at the time, although their first child is mentioned as born 1825. Donald McCormick Ardchiavaig and Margrate McKinnan were married on the 11 January 1823 John McCormick born 20 May 1825 Janet McCormick born 28 July 1827 Cormick MCormick born 14 July 1829 Angus McCormick 28 April 1831 Malcolm McCormick born 12 August 1833 Catherine McCormick born 14 August 1836 No mention of Betty there although her birth is in the records in 1820 to a Donald McCormick Crofter in Uisken and Margaret McKinnon, so perhaps 2 couples with same name, although records do not show any marriages for either couple at the time only this later mention. Usually if a child had been illegitimate it was made legitimate on the marriage of the parents. Margaret (Melrose) On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 5:07 AM, Linda M. Towne <[email protected]>wrote: > Hello all. > In the baptism registers (OPR), when it says 'lawful' son or > daughter, that means that the parents were married at the time of the > baptism, correct? > > I'm asking because I have Donald McCormick marrying Margaret McKinnon 11 > Jan 1823 but their lawful daughter Betty baptised 18 Nov 1820 > > Does that mean that there were probably TWO couples with those names at > the time? Or am I mis-interpreting the meaning of lawful? > > I checked Ian's site (www.mullgenealogy.co.uk) as well as Michael's site > (www.mullfamilies.co.uk) and they both show Betty as a daughter of the > Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon who married in 1823. > > > Thoughts? Thanks! > > Linda > > -- > Linda MacCormick Towne > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Elaine - I'll search the archives and also have a look in Ontario. It always helps to know where in Ontario to look for 'missing' people. Linda On 7/30/2011 9:10 AM, Elaine Robinson wrote: > Hi > Sorry I haven't been paying strict attention to the discussion on this > couple so I am not sure who is looking for what. However, this Margaret > McKinnon daughter of Angus McKinnon and Janet McKinnon was the only member > of her family NOT to come to Ontario. The rest of them lived in Erin > Township, and I think some of the McCormack children must have come, as I > have seen a letter from a McCormack living near here to a McKinnon in Erin > beginning "dear cousin". There was someone at MUGG called Margaret who is > descended from this couple and had done extensive work on them. I am pretty > sure if you check back in the Mull website archives you will find emails > from her. I have not worked on my McKinnon files in quite a while, and that > plus a new computer, makes this answer a little vague. I hope in the fall to > get back to them. Hope this helps a little. > > Elaine Robinson > Georgetown Ontario > > -----Original Message----- > From: margaret murray > Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 3:36 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon > > The marriage entry in the OPR's (Scotlandspeople) show the marriage took > place right enough but has been written in later in 1854, along with the > entries of all their issue underneath. Perhaps a mistake was made during > transcription by the session Clerk John McDonald at the time, although their > first child is mentioned as born 1825. > > Donald McCormick Ardchiavaig and Margrate McKinnan were married on the > 11 January 1823 > John McCormick born 20 May 1825 > Janet McCormick born 28 July 1827 > Cormick MCormick born 14 July 1829 > Angus McCormick 28 April 1831 > Malcolm McCormick born 12 August 1833 > Catherine McCormick born 14 August 1836 > No mention of Betty there although her birth is in the records in 1820 to a > Donald McCormick Crofter in Uisken and Margaret McKinnon, so perhaps 2 > couples with same name, although records do not show any marriages for > either couple at the time only this later mention. > Usually if a child had been illegitimate it was made legitimate on the > marriage of the parents. > > Margaret (Melrose) > On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 5:07 AM, Linda M. Towne<[email protected]>wrote: > >> Hello all. >> In the baptism registers (OPR), when it says 'lawful' son or >> daughter, that means that the parents were married at the time of the >> baptism, correct? >> >> I'm asking because I have Donald McCormick marrying Margaret McKinnon 11 >> Jan 1823 but their lawful daughter Betty baptised 18 Nov 1820 >> >> Does that mean that there were probably TWO couples with those names at >> the time? Or am I mis-interpreting the meaning of lawful? >> >> I checked Ian's site (www.mullgenealogy.co.uk) as well as Michael's site >> (www.mullfamilies.co.uk) and they both show Betty as a daughter of the >> Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon who married in 1823. >> >> >> Thoughts? Thanks! >> >> Linda >> >> -- >> Linda MacCormick Towne >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Linda MacCormick Towne

Hi Elaine That was me. Margaret and her brother Duncan (father of Professor Donald McKinnon) were the only children of Janet and Angus McKinnon not to emigrate to Ontario. Janet was the sister of Catherine McKinnon who went to Russia as a nanny to Alexander II. I think I concluded after discussions with Jo Currie, that Margaret and Donald had Betty and Catherine 1 out of wedlock as ministers were a bit thin on the ground in remote parts of Mull. Jo was pretty sure that they were the parents of both sets of children. Perhaps Betty and Catherine 1 died in infancy as there is no further record of them. I think the list of their other children, including my ancestor Cormick, was entered in the register in the 1850s and was probably to set their house in order as Janet, Malcolm and Catherine 2 emigrated to Oregon at the end of the decade. On this note, I have never been able to trace Janet (who was married to John McFarlane and had a small son also called John) in the US though I have traced Malcolm and Catherine 2. I'd be delighted to hear from anyone who can give me information about Janet. From family correspondence, she kept in touch with Catherine and her husband Robert Bruce . Margaret McKechnie Gallagher ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine Robinson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon > Hi > Sorry I haven't been paying strict attention to the discussion on this > couple so I am not sure who is looking for what. However, this Margaret > McKinnon daughter of Angus McKinnon and Janet McKinnon was the only member > of her family NOT to come to Ontario. The rest of them lived in Erin > Township, and I think some of the McCormack children must have come, as I > have seen a letter from a McCormack living near here to a McKinnon in Erin > beginning "dear cousin". There was someone at MUGG called Margaret who is > descended from this couple and had done extensive work on them. I am > pretty > sure if you check back in the Mull website archives you will find emails > from her. I have not worked on my McKinnon files in quite a while, and > that > plus a new computer, makes this answer a little vague. I hope in the fall > to > get back to them. Hope this helps a little. > > Elaine Robinson > Georgetown Ontario > > -----Original Message----- > From: margaret murray > Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 3:36 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon > > The marriage entry in the OPR's (Scotlandspeople) show the marriage took > place right enough but has been written in later in 1854, along with the > entries of all their issue underneath. Perhaps a mistake was made during > transcription by the session Clerk John McDonald at the time, although > their > first child is mentioned as born 1825. > > Donald McCormick Ardchiavaig and Margrate McKinnan were married on the > 11 January 1823 > John McCormick born 20 May 1825 > Janet McCormick born 28 July 1827 > Cormick MCormick born 14 July 1829 > Angus McCormick 28 April 1831 > Malcolm McCormick born 12 August 1833 > Catherine McCormick born 14 August 1836 > No mention of Betty there although her birth is in the records in 1820 to > a > Donald McCormick Crofter in Uisken and Margaret McKinnon, so perhaps 2 > couples with same name, although records do not show any marriages for > either couple at the time only this later mention. > Usually if a child had been illegitimate it was made legitimate on the > marriage of the parents. > > Margaret (Melrose) > On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 5:07 AM, Linda M. Towne > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Hello all. >> In the baptism registers (OPR), when it says 'lawful' son or >> daughter, that means that the parents were married at the time of the >> baptism, correct? >> >> I'm asking because I have Donald McCormick marrying Margaret McKinnon 11 >> Jan 1823 but their lawful daughter Betty baptised 18 Nov 1820 >> >> Does that mean that there were probably TWO couples with those names at >> the time? Or am I mis-interpreting the meaning of lawful? >> >> I checked Ian's site (www.mullgenealogy.co.uk) as well as Michael's site >> (www.mullfamilies.co.uk) and they both show Betty as a daughter of the >> Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon who married in 1823. >> >> >> Thoughts? Thanks! >> >> Linda >> >> -- >> Linda MacCormick Towne >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Margaret - Thank you for the additional information. I wonder if there was an informal 'marriage' without the benefit of the clergy that was later formalised? Is that something that happened in remote parts of Scotland the way it did in some other remote parts of the world including frontier America? I'm finding that the more research I do, the more questions I have about the customs and life of the times. Linda On 7/30/2011 6:06 PM, margaret wrote: > Hi Elaine > > That was me. > > Margaret and her brother Duncan (father of Professor Donald McKinnon) were > the only children of Janet and Angus McKinnon not to emigrate to Ontario. > Janet was the sister of Catherine McKinnon who went to Russia as a nanny to > Alexander II. > > I think I concluded after discussions with Jo Currie, that Margaret and > Donald had Betty and Catherine 1 out of wedlock as ministers were a bit thin > on the ground in remote parts of Mull. Jo was pretty sure that they were > the parents of both sets of children. Perhaps Betty and Catherine 1 died > in infancy as there is no further record of them. I think the list of their > other children, including my ancestor Cormick, was entered in the register > in the 1850s and was probably to set their house in order as Janet, Malcolm > and Catherine 2 emigrated to Oregon at the end of the decade. > > On this note, I have never been able to trace Janet (who was married to John > McFarlane and had a small son also called John) in the US though I have > traced Malcolm and Catherine 2. I'd be delighted to hear from anyone who > can give me information about Janet. From family correspondence, she kept > in touch with Catherine and her husband Robert Bruce . > > Margaret McKechnie Gallagher > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Elaine Robinson"<[email protected]> > To:<[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 2:10 PM > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon > > >> Hi >> Sorry I haven't been paying strict attention to the discussion on this >> couple so I am not sure who is looking for what. However, this Margaret >> McKinnon daughter of Angus McKinnon and Janet McKinnon was the only member >> of her family NOT to come to Ontario. The rest of them lived in Erin >> Township, and I think some of the McCormack children must have come, as I >> have seen a letter from a McCormack living near here to a McKinnon in Erin >> beginning "dear cousin". There was someone at MUGG called Margaret who is >> descended from this couple and had done extensive work on them. I am >> pretty >> sure if you check back in the Mull website archives you will find emails >> from her. I have not worked on my McKinnon files in quite a while, and >> that >> plus a new computer, makes this answer a little vague. I hope in the fall >> to >> get back to them. Hope this helps a little. >> >> Elaine Robinson >> Georgetown Ontario >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: margaret murray >> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 3:36 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon >> >> The marriage entry in the OPR's (Scotlandspeople) show the marriage took >> place right enough but has been written in later in 1854, along with the >> entries of all their issue underneath. Perhaps a mistake was made during >> transcription by the session Clerk John McDonald at the time, although >> their >> first child is mentioned as born 1825. >> >> Donald McCormick Ardchiavaig and Margrate McKinnan were married on the >> 11 January 1823 >> John McCormick born 20 May 1825 >> Janet McCormick born 28 July 1827 >> Cormick MCormick born 14 July 1829 >> Angus McCormick 28 April 1831 >> Malcolm McCormick born 12 August 1833 >> Catherine McCormick born 14 August 1836 >> No mention of Betty there although her birth is in the records in 1820 to >> a >> Donald McCormick Crofter in Uisken and Margaret McKinnon, so perhaps 2 >> couples with same name, although records do not show any marriages for >> either couple at the time only this later mention. >> Usually if a child had been illegitimate it was made legitimate on the >> marriage of the parents. >> >> Margaret (Melrose) >> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 5:07 AM, Linda M. Towne >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Hello all. >>> In the baptism registers (OPR), when it says 'lawful' son or >>> daughter, that means that the parents were married at the time of the >>> baptism, correct? >>> >>> I'm asking because I have Donald McCormick marrying Margaret McKinnon 11 >>> Jan 1823 but their lawful daughter Betty baptised 18 Nov 1820 >>> >>> Does that mean that there were probably TWO couples with those names at >>> the time? Or am I mis-interpreting the meaning of lawful? >>> >>> I checked Ian's site (www.mullgenealogy.co.uk) as well as Michael's site >>> (www.mullfamilies.co.uk) and they both show Betty as a daughter of the >>> Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon who married in 1823. >>> >>> >>> Thoughts? Thanks! >>> >>> Linda >>> >>> -- >>> Linda MacCormick Towne >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Linda MacCormick Towne

I guess so, or perhaps they couldn't be bothered or were too poor to pay the fees. Certainly so in the case of my McKechnie great great grandparents who lived on the Ross of Mull, and for whom we have never been able to trace any marriage record, so concluded they never actually married. Also I believe that Scottish law recognised civil partnerships. According to my Scottish father, Cormick's grandson, if a couple lived together in Scotland for a number of years they were seen as being married in common law and there was less social stigma than say in England. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda M. Towne" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon > Margaret - > Thank you for the additional information. I wonder if there was an > informal 'marriage' without the benefit of the clergy that was later > formalised? Is that something that happened in remote parts of Scotland > the way it did in some other remote parts of the world including > frontier America? I'm finding that the more research I do, the more > questions I have about the customs and life of the times. > > Linda > > On 7/30/2011 6:06 PM, margaret wrote: >> Hi Elaine >> >> That was me. >> >> Margaret and her brother Duncan (father of Professor Donald McKinnon) >> were >> the only children of Janet and Angus McKinnon not to emigrate to Ontario. >> Janet was the sister of Catherine McKinnon who went to Russia as a nanny >> to >> Alexander II. >> >> I think I concluded after discussions with Jo Currie, that Margaret and >> Donald had Betty and Catherine 1 out of wedlock as ministers were a bit >> thin >> on the ground in remote parts of Mull. Jo was pretty sure that they were >> the parents of both sets of children. Perhaps Betty and Catherine 1 >> died >> in infancy as there is no further record of them. I think the list of >> their >> other children, including my ancestor Cormick, was entered in the >> register >> in the 1850s and was probably to set their house in order as Janet, >> Malcolm >> and Catherine 2 emigrated to Oregon at the end of the decade. >> >> On this note, I have never been able to trace Janet (who was married to >> John >> McFarlane and had a small son also called John) in the US though I have >> traced Malcolm and Catherine 2. I'd be delighted to hear from anyone who >> can give me information about Janet. From family correspondence, she >> kept >> in touch with Catherine and her husband Robert Bruce . >> >> Margaret McKechnie Gallagher >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Elaine Robinson"<[email protected]> >> To:<[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 2:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon >> >> >>> Hi >>> Sorry I haven't been paying strict attention to the discussion on this >>> couple so I am not sure who is looking for what. However, this Margaret >>> McKinnon daughter of Angus McKinnon and Janet McKinnon was the only >>> member >>> of her family NOT to come to Ontario. The rest of them lived in Erin >>> Township, and I think some of the McCormack children must have come, as >>> I >>> have seen a letter from a McCormack living near here to a McKinnon in >>> Erin >>> beginning "dear cousin". There was someone at MUGG called Margaret who >>> is >>> descended from this couple and had done extensive work on them. I am >>> pretty >>> sure if you check back in the Mull website archives you will find emails >>> from her. I have not worked on my McKinnon files in quite a while, and >>> that >>> plus a new computer, makes this answer a little vague. I hope in the >>> fall >>> to >>> get back to them. Hope this helps a little. >>> >>> Elaine Robinson >>> Georgetown Ontario >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: margaret murray >>> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 3:36 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon >>> >>> The marriage entry in the OPR's (Scotlandspeople) show the marriage took >>> place right enough but has been written in later in 1854, along with the >>> entries of all their issue underneath. Perhaps a mistake was made during >>> transcription by the session Clerk John McDonald at the time, although >>> their >>> first child is mentioned as born 1825. >>> >>> Donald McCormick Ardchiavaig and Margrate McKinnan were married on the >>> 11 January 1823 >>> John McCormick born 20 May 1825 >>> Janet McCormick born 28 July 1827 >>> Cormick MCormick born 14 July 1829 >>> Angus McCormick 28 April 1831 >>> Malcolm McCormick born 12 August 1833 >>> Catherine McCormick born 14 August 1836 >>> No mention of Betty there although her birth is in the records in 1820 >>> to >>> a >>> Donald McCormick Crofter in Uisken and Margaret McKinnon, so perhaps 2 >>> couples with same name, although records do not show any marriages for >>> either couple at the time only this later mention. >>> Usually if a child had been illegitimate it was made legitimate on the >>> marriage of the parents. >>> >>> Margaret (Melrose) >>> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 5:07 AM, Linda M. Towne >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Hello all. >>>> In the baptism registers (OPR), when it says 'lawful' son or >>>> daughter, that means that the parents were married at the time of the >>>> baptism, correct? >>>> >>>> I'm asking because I have Donald McCormick marrying Margaret McKinnon >>>> 11 >>>> Jan 1823 but their lawful daughter Betty baptised 18 Nov 1820 >>>> >>>> Does that mean that there were probably TWO couples with those names at >>>> the time? Or am I mis-interpreting the meaning of lawful? >>>> >>>> I checked Ian's site (www.mullgenealogy.co.uk) as well as Michael's >>>> site >>>> (www.mullfamilies.co.uk) and they both show Betty as a daughter of the >>>> Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon who married in 1823. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thoughts? Thanks! >>>> >>>> Linda >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Linda MacCormick Towne >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > -- > Linda MacCormick Towne > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

hello Margaret and Linda, I couldn't find the marriage for my great grandparents and when e mailing with Jo Currie years ago she told me that there are no records for Baptist marriages/christenings and there were a lot of Baptists on the Ross of Mull, I contacted the Baptists church and was put in touch with a charming elderly gentleman near Inverness who patiently explained to me how records were recorded by Baptist then, basically records were made but frequently renewed the old being destroy, so as people died their records were removed, no help to us!! however Jo Currie also posted on this list years ago and said if you have an ancestor or sibling of an ancestor born in 1855 when registration started in Scotland it is often worth buying the certificate as so much was recorded on certificates that first year, my ggrandfather was born in 1850 so no record but he had a younger sister born March 1855 so I bought her birth cert and yes! my gggrandparents marriage is on it, they married in Shiaba 1844, no month but I had year and place and certainty they were married, Jo Currie did tell me that if I couldn't find a record of a marriage or christening and my family was living on the south side of the Ross then they were very probably Baptists, this is exactly where my family were, I have records prior to 1820 but nothing after until official registration 1855, I hope this helps, Frances, --- On Sat, 30/7/11, margaret <[email protected]> wrote: From: margaret <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon To: [email protected] Date: Saturday, 30 July, 2011, 23:38 I guess so, or perhaps they couldn't be bothered or were too poor to pay the fees.  Certainly so in the case of my McKechnie great great grandparents who lived on the Ross of Mull, and for whom we have never been able to trace any marriage record, so concluded they never actually married.  Also I believe that Scottish law recognised civil partnerships. According to my Scottish father, Cormick's grandson, if a couple lived together in Scotland for a number of years they were seen as being married in common law and there was less social stigma than say in England. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda M. Towne" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon > Margaret - >   Thank you for the additional information. I wonder if there was an > informal 'marriage' without the benefit of the clergy that was later > formalised?  Is that something that happened in remote parts of Scotland > the way it did in some other remote parts of the world including > frontier America? I'm finding that the more research I do, the more > questions I have about the customs and life of the times. > > Linda

Hi Frances Thanks very much for this. It is very useful. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frances Caple" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon hello Margaret and Linda, I couldn't find the marriage for my great grandparents and when e mailing with Jo Currie years ago she told me that there are no records for Baptist marriages/christenings and there were a lot of Baptists on the Ross of Mull, I contacted the Baptists church and was put in touch with a charming elderly gentleman near Inverness who patiently explained to me how records were recorded by Baptist then, basically records were made but frequently renewed the old being destroy, so as people died their records were removed, no help to us!! however Jo Currie also posted on this list years ago and said if you have an ancestor or sibling of an ancestor born in 1855 when registration started in Scotland it is often worth buying the certificate as so much was recorded on certificates that first year, my ggrandfather was born in 1850 so no record but he had a younger sister born March 1855 so I bought her birth cert and yes! my gggrandparents marriage is on it, they married in Shiaba 1844, no month but I had year and place and certainty they were married, Jo Currie did tell me that if I couldn't find a record of a marriage or christening and my family was living on the south side of the Ross then they were very probably Baptists, this is exactly where my family were, I have records prior to 1820 but nothing after until official registration 1855, I hope this helps, Frances, --- On Sat, 30/7/11, margaret <[email protected]> wrote: From: margaret <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon To: [email protected] Date: Saturday, 30 July, 2011, 23:38 I guess so, or perhaps they couldn't be bothered or were too poor to pay the fees. Certainly so in the case of my McKechnie great great grandparents who lived on the Ross of Mull, and for whom we have never been able to trace any marriage record, so concluded they never actually married. Also I believe that Scottish law recognised civil partnerships. According to my Scottish father, Cormick's grandson, if a couple lived together in Scotland for a number of years they were seen as being married in common law and there was less social stigma than say in England. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda M. Towne" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon > Margaret - > Thank you for the additional information. I wonder if there was an > informal 'marriage' without the benefit of the clergy that was later > formalised? Is that something that happened in remote parts of Scotland > the way it did in some other remote parts of the world including > frontier America? I'm finding that the more research I do, the more > questions I have about the customs and life of the times. > > Linda ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Margaret. Possibly two couple or an error in the records - I'll tag my notes that it needs further research. Linda On 7/30/2011 3:36 AM, margaret murray wrote: > The marriage entry in the OPR's (Scotlandspeople) show the marriage took > place right enough but has been written in later in 1854, along with the > entries of all their issue underneath. Perhaps a mistake was made during > transcription by the session Clerk John McDonald at the time, although their > first child is mentioned as born 1825. > > Donald McCormick Ardchiavaig and Margrate McKinnan were married on the > 11 January 1823 > John McCormick born 20 May 1825 > Janet McCormick born 28 July 1827 > Cormick MCormick born 14 July 1829 > Angus McCormick 28 April 1831 > Malcolm McCormick born 12 August 1833 > Catherine McCormick born 14 August 1836 > No mention of Betty there although her birth is in the records in 1820 to a > Donald McCormick Crofter in Uisken and Margaret McKinnon, so perhaps 2 > couples with same name, although records do not show any marriages for > either couple at the time only this later mention. > Usually if a child had been illegitimate it was made legitimate on the > marriage of the parents. > > Margaret (Melrose) > On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 5:07 AM, Linda M. Towne<[email protected]>wrote: > >> Hello all. >> In the baptism registers (OPR), when it says 'lawful' son or >> daughter, that means that the parents were married at the time of the >> baptism, correct? >> >> I'm asking because I have Donald McCormick marrying Margaret McKinnon 11 >> Jan 1823 but their lawful daughter Betty baptised 18 Nov 1820 >> >> Does that mean that there were probably TWO couples with those names at >> the time? Or am I mis-interpreting the meaning of lawful? >> >> I checked Ian's site (www.mullgenealogy.co.uk) as well as Michael's site >> (www.mullfamilies.co.uk) and they both show Betty as a daughter of the >> Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon who married in 1823. >> >> >> Thoughts? Thanks! >> >> Linda >> >> -- >> Linda MacCormick Towne >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Linda MacCormick Towne

Margaret - that was quick, well done IGI also has dau Catherine bap 23 May 1822 Linda - as Margaret says, error or two couples Will add a note to this effect Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "margaret murray" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon > The marriage entry in the OPR's (Scotlandspeople) show the marriage took > place right enough but has been written in later in 1854, along with the > entries of all their issue underneath. Perhaps a mistake was made during > transcription by the session Clerk John McDonald at the time, although > their > first child is mentioned as born 1825. > > Donald McCormick Ardchiavaig and Margrate McKinnan were married on the > 11 January 1823 > John McCormick born 20 May 1825 > Janet McCormick born 28 July 1827 > Cormick MCormick born 14 July 1829 > Angus McCormick 28 April 1831 > Malcolm McCormick born 12 August 1833 > Catherine McCormick born 14 August 1836 > No mention of Betty there although her birth is in the records in 1820 to > a > Donald McCormick Crofter in Uisken and Margaret McKinnon, so perhaps 2 > couples with same name, although records do not show any marriages for > either couple at the time only this later mention. > Usually if a child had been illegitimate it was made legitimate on the > marriage of the parents. > > Margaret (Melrose) > On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 5:07 AM, Linda M. Towne > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Hello all. >> In the baptism registers (OPR), when it says 'lawful' son or >> daughter, that means that the parents were married at the time of the >> baptism, correct? >> >> I'm asking because I have Donald McCormick marrying Margaret McKinnon 11 >> Jan 1823 but their lawful daughter Betty baptised 18 Nov 1820 >> >> Does that mean that there were probably TWO couples with those names at >> the time? Or am I mis-interpreting the meaning of lawful? >> >> I checked Ian's site (www.mullgenealogy.co.uk) as well as Michael's site >> (www.mullfamilies.co.uk) and they both show Betty as a daughter of the >> Donald McCormick and Margaret McKinnon who married in 1823. >> >> >> Thoughts? Thanks! >> >> Linda >> >> -- >> Linda MacCormick Towne >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message