To list members: This is a long post, for which, my apologies. It concerns McDougall families with Scottish roots, living in Ontario, Canada, in the 1800s. Hello, Ida, Tricia and the list: After a longer-than-expected hiatus, I am back to searching for 18th-19th century McDougalls. I am grateful for your suggestions and questions, and I will respond to some of them in this email. To recap my purpose: a Malcolm MacDougall in the US turns out to have yDNA markers nearly identical to one of my families, surnamed McKinney/McKenney. Looking for the crossover between families, we have traced our US McDougall to Murdoch McDougall and Mary McDougall, married 1866 in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Beyond this Murdoch, the trail grows cold. However, there are a few leads to Scottish origins, and I am asking my new Scot friends for help in exploring them. Here is additional information regarding Murdoch and Mary. Their marriage record reports that Murdoch McDougall, age 32, married Mary McDougall, age 20, on 11 Sep 1866 in Toronto, which was Mary's home. Both were recorded as born in Scotland. Her parents were Allan and Mary McDougall; Murdoch's were John and Mary McDougall. Murdoch's residence at the time was Elderslie Twp, Bruce County, Ontario. Murdoch and Mary lived in Elderslie after marriage. In the 1871 census for Elderslie, Murdoch and Mary are recorded as 42 and 23, with Mary recorded as born in Ontario, Murdoch in Scotland. They have children Mary (4), Allen (3), and John (5/12), and also living with them are John McDougal (30, a farmer) and Annie McDougal (24, a servant). Later, there were two more girls born to the pair: Sarah and Julia. Murdoch died at age 46, in 1874, and his widow Mary went on to marry a man named Hazelton. Apparently there are no male-line survivors of Murdoch and Mary other than our US MacDougall, whose paper trail back to that marriage is solid. (Murdoch's and Mary's son Allen eventually moved to Cleveland, Ohio, USA, and on to Miami, Florida in the mid 1920s. Our MacDougall contact is their grandson.) Our interest is in tracing the Elderslie Murdoch McDougall's line back into Scotland, primarily in an effort to locate the MacDougall/McKinney crossover that links our families genetically. Thus the presence of McKinney families in the vicinity of his parental family would also be of interest. Our MacDougall says that his father told him that "old Murdoch was born in Argylshire, Kidalton, and I think he told me it was the Isle of Mull," but then our source suggests that this may not be right. Another source, a passenger list for the ship Hope (from Glasgow) in our US MacDougall's possession, suggests Argyle Civil Parish #541, Kildalton Co, Islay, as the birthplace of a Murdoch McDougall who immigrated to Pictou, Nova Scotia in 1848 (along with several other McDougalls) and moved on to Ontario in 1852. This Murdoch was born about 1828 and was single when he arrived in 1848. (However, his mother may have been listed as Sarah, not Mary.) Finally for Murdoch, another man of the same name was born in Scotland about 1825 and came to the Mariposa, Victoria, Ontario, Canada area to live. He married Ann Ferguson in 1859 in Brock Twp, Ontario and died in 1907 in Mariposa, Victoria, Ontario. Quite a bit is known about this Murdoch-Ann family, but we doubt that these two Murdochs are related. However, we do not know for sure. To complicate things, the 1861 census of Elderslie shows another McDougall (or McDougald) living _next-door_ to Murdoch and Mary McDougall (I mentioned them in an earlier email). This couple is named Allan John McDougall (48, a farmer) and Flora McKillop McDougall (43). Both were born in Scotland, as were their two eldest children Mary (18) and Duncan (16). Their seven younger children range from 14 down to 4/12 years old, in order: Ann, Neal, John, R. Allen, James, Flora Belle, and E. Mary. This Allen John is probably the one who born in Tobermory, Mull, in 1819 and died in 1920 in Portage La Prairie, Manitoba, Canada (according to OneWorldTree), in spite of the age discrepancy, since the children's names given are the same. We wonder how significant the final "d" is in the McDougald name for Allen and Flora and their daughter. We found the official marriage record for Mary Jane McDougald of Greenock, Bruce, Ontario (22) and Andrew Hamilton (27) of Brant Twp, wed on 21 Oct 1874 in bride's father's house in Greenock. Mary Jane was born on Isle of Mull, Scotland, and her parents were Allen McDougald and Flora McKillop. These appear to be the family living next door to Murdoch and Mary in Elderslie in 1861. We think that Allan and Murdoch (or possibly Murdoch's wife Mary) may have been related, even though Tobermory is a long way from Kildalton. The bride's family was Baptist, however, whereas Murdoch's was reported as Church of Scotland in 1871 and Presbyterian on his death certificate in 1874. (Incidentally, Andrew's parents were James Hamilton and Christiane Ross, living in the Twp of Brant, Ontario. Andrew was born in the Twp of Arthur.) We are looking along several lines and will be grateful for any help you can offer. (1) Since our likely McKinney immigrant was Daniel McKenney, married in Maine 1732, we wonder whether there are court or church records of that period that would reveal cases of bastardy or adoption or foundlings by birth name and adoptive family name. (2) We would like to identify the parents of Murdoch and Mary (both surnamed McDougall) who were born in Scotland and married in Toronto, possibly in records of the Church of Scotland in Argylshire, Kildalton, Islay. (3) We would also like to identify the parents of Allen John McDougall (or McDougald) and Flora McKillop, who married in Scotland and had two children there, possibly Tobermory, Mull and possibly Baptist. (4) We would like to locate a McDougall male from the Kildalton area and maybe one from the Tobermory area, preferably with paper trails back to the early 1800s, to do yDNA testing with Family tree DNA, Inc. Thanks in advance for your help. Ted Mills Chateaugay, NY, USA [email protected] On 11/6/2011 2:02 PM, Merle & Ida King wrote: > Hi Ted > > Welcome to the list. Although Bruce Co., Ont is off my research path > I'm always interested in Mull connections. > > I'd love to know more about the marriage details you have for Mary > Jane McDougall & Andrew Hamilton. Etc.