This morning I added the complete Kilninian marriages (Index of 224 couples, in 9 parts) This joins the complete marriages Index lists of Iona, Kinlochspelvie, Salen, Torosay & Ulva (Kilfinichen & Tobermory a work in progress) The site database has now gone beyond 37,000 (and adding daily) Current statistics as follows Total Individuals 37,079 Total Males 19,314 (52.09%) Total Females 17,749 (47.87%) Total Unknown Gender 16 (0.04%) Total Living 151 Total Families 9,786 Total Unique Surnames 1,278 Total Photos 349 Total Documents 61 Total Headstones 166 Total Histories 5 Total Recordings 0 Total Videos 7 Total Sources 6 Average Lifespan 51 years, 210 days Hundreds of headstone pics have still to be added Always happy to get info, pics, gedcom, BDMs etc. Michael www.mullfamilies.co.uk

Anyone recognise the following McDonald family ? Transcription below is from the original microfilm Three children are aged 5, hinting at them being triplets There is no John/Marion (Sarah) marriage in the Kilninian Index, so presumed married elsewhere about 1892 1901 Kilninian & Kilmore District 7 Page 2 Schedule # 6 Kilninian Shepherds House McDonald John 40 Head Shepherd Argyleshire Kilninian & Kilmore >> s/o ? McDonald Sarah 43 Wife Shepherd's Wife Argyleshire Kilninian & Kilmore > > nee ? McDonald John 7 Son Scholar Argyleshire Kilninian & Kilmore McDonald Maggie 5 Dau Argyleshire Kilninian & Kilmore McDonald Annie 5 Dau Argyleshire Kilninian & Kilmore McDonald Neil 5 Son Argyleshire Kilninian & Kilmore Michael www.mullfamilies.co.uk

Kym Mary's 1827 marriage to Neil Campbell, where please !! (place/parish) Ian's mullgenealogy has three children listed for Malcolm Beaton/Flora McCormick. I have one more with Angus who married Janet McGilvray, but no proof that he's a s/o Malcolm (although there's the Ardalanish link) Let us know where Mary and Neil spring from : dates if you have them please Michael www.mullfamilies.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kym Lawrence" <kymlawrence@rogers.com> To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Campbell and MacGilvray question > Mary Margaret married Neil Campbell on Aug.21, 1827, don't have anything > else on him yet? Or their children? Her siblings are Angus, Duncan, Ann, > Janet, Neil, all born at Kilfinichen Parish. > > -----Original Message----- > From: sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of MF > Sent: August-28-13 1:28 PM > To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Campbell and MacGilvray question > > Kym > > Thank you, but don't stop there ! > > I don't have a Margaret Beaton as d/o Malcolm/Flora > > Perhaps you can add more as to when born, where married, husband's > parents, > children etc............. ? > > > Michael > www.mullfamilies.co.uk

p.s. Julia you can also go here and probably have to pay for what they have http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/22662/photographs/mull+duart+castle/?&sort_typ=collectionDate&sort_ord=1&z=40 M www.mullfamilies.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "MF" <mf@mullfamilies.plus.com> To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Census-Campbell > Julia > > I did a website relationship calculation of your Hugh (who immediately > precreded the subject family on the Census) and Mary Campbell, but there > is > no connection (as yet) > > At a guess, the farmer's house (where Hugh was) is likely to have been in > the grounds nearby the castle, and the 'paupers house' a bothy within the > farm boundary > > You can go on site and enter place 'Duart' and it will bring up the google > map. Zoom in using satellite view for the castle and outbuildings > > > > Michael > www.mullfamilies.co.uk

Julia I did a website relationship calculation of your Hugh (who immediately precreded the subject family on the Census) and Mary Campbell, but there is no connection (as yet) At a guess, the farmer's house (where Hugh was) is likely to have been in the grounds nearby the castle, and the 'paupers house' a bothy within the farm boundary You can go on site and enter place 'Duart' and it will bring up the google map. Zoom in using satellite view for the castle and outbuildings Michael www.mullfamilies.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "julia kenny" <jeakenny@nc.rr.com> To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Census-Campbell > Can you tell me the location of the Duart Paupers House? Am trying to see > if these Campbell's are connected to my g uncle, Hugh McDougall Campbell > who was thE famer on Duart Farm about this time until Duart Castle was > taken back by the McLeans. Any information about the farm would also be > appreciated. I was there in June and suspect the house they lived in (#3) > has been demolished. > > Would also appreciate if anyone has or can steer me to a map of the > castle, farm and grounds from about 1890 to 1910. > > Thank you > Julia > > Sent from my iPad > > On 3 Sep 2013, at 11:13, "MF" <mf@mullfamilies.plus.com> wrote: > >> 1901 Torosay District No : 1 Page No : 6 House No : 27 Locality : >> Duart Paupers House 19017027 >> Campbell Margaret 76 Head Pauper formerly Domestic Servant Torosay >> Livingstone Mary 48 Dau Servant Domestic Argyll Torosay >> McCrone Williamina 15 Grand daughter Scholar Argyll Torosay >> Livingstone Helen 11 Grand daughter Scholar Argyll Torosay >> Livingstone Malcolm 9 Grandson Scholar Argyll Torosay >> McDonald William 1 Grandson Argyll Torosay >> Campbell Donald 72 Brother Retired Drapers Clerk Argyll Torosay >> >> McDonald William aged 1 is < G-grandson > >> His mother can only be Mary Ann Campbell or McDonald, an earlier natural >> daughter to Mary Livingston nee Campbell >> >> Mary Campbell had numerous natural children pre marriage, plus the two >> Livingstons, Helen and Malcolm >> >> I spent hours on this family, but as yet have still to establish who >> Mary's husband Alexander Livingston is. They were married 1888 Torosay >> >> 1888 LIVINGSTON ALEXANDER CAMPBELL MARY TOROSAY /ARGYLL 550/00 0001 >> >> Mary's mother Margaret (d/o Malcolm/Marion Colquhoun) never married and >> had at least Mary above and also a son 1855 Glasgow, by a Watson >> >> If anyone knows the origins of Alexander Livingston, please let me know >> >> >> >> Michael >> www.mullfamilies.co.uk >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

1901 Torosay District No : 1 Page No : 6 House No : 27 Locality : Duart Paupers House 19017027 Campbell Margaret 76 Head Pauper formerly Domestic Servant Torosay Livingstone Mary 48 Dau Servant Domestic Argyll Torosay McCrone Williamina 15 Grand daughter Scholar Argyll Torosay Livingstone Helen 11 Grand daughter Scholar Argyll Torosay Livingstone Malcolm 9 Grandson Scholar Argyll Torosay McDonald William 1 Grandson Argyll Torosay Campbell Donald 72 Brother Retired Drapers Clerk Argyll Torosay McDonald William aged 1 is < G-grandson > His mother can only be Mary Ann Campbell or McDonald, an earlier natural daughter to Mary Livingston nee Campbell Mary Campbell had numerous natural children pre marriage, plus the two Livingstons, Helen and Malcolm I spent hours on this family, but as yet have still to establish who Mary's husband Alexander Livingston is. They were married 1888 Torosay 1888 LIVINGSTON ALEXANDER CAMPBELL MARY TOROSAY /ARGYLL 550/00 0001 Mary's mother Margaret (d/o Malcolm/Marion Colquhoun) never married and had at least Mary above and also a son 1855 Glasgow, by a Watson If anyone knows the origins of Alexander Livingston, please let me know Michael www.mullfamilies.co.uk

Sorry I don't have the place of marriage listed, maybe Kilfinichen. I will contact my Beaton relative..... -----Original Message----- From: sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of MF Sent: September-03-13 1:22 PM To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Campbell and MacGilvray question Kym Mary's 1827 marriage to Neil Campbell, where please !! (place/parish) Ian's mullgenealogy has three children listed for Malcolm Beaton/Flora McCormick. I have one more with Angus who married Janet McGilvray, but no proof that he's a s/o Malcolm (although there's the Ardalanish link) Let us know where Mary and Neil spring from : dates if you have them please Michael www.mullfamilies.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kym Lawrence" <kymlawrence@rogers.com> To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Campbell and MacGilvray question > Mary Margaret married Neil Campbell on Aug.21, 1827, don't have anything > else on him yet? Or their children? Her siblings are Angus, Duncan, Ann, > Janet, Neil, all born at Kilfinichen Parish. > > -----Original Message----- > From: sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of MF > Sent: August-28-13 1:28 PM > To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Campbell and MacGilvray question > > Kym > > Thank you, but don't stop there ! > > I don't have a Margaret Beaton as d/o Malcolm/Flora > > Perhaps you can add more as to when born, where married, husband's > parents, > children etc............. ? > > > Michael > www.mullfamilies.co.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mary Margaret married Neil Campbell on Aug.21, 1827, don't have anything else on him yet? Or their children? Her siblings are Angus, Duncan, Ann, Janet, Neil, all born at Kilfinichen Parish. -----Original Message----- From: sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of MF Sent: August-28-13 1:28 PM To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Campbell and MacGilvray question Kym Thank you, but don't stop there ! I don't have a Margaret Beaton as d/o Malcolm/Flora Perhaps you can add more as to when born, where married, husband's parents, children etc............. ? Michael www.mullfamilies.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kym Lawrence" <kymlawrence@rogers.com> To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Campbell and MacGilvray question > Her parents Malcolm Beaton & Flora McCormick m. Kilfinichen & she was born > there also. > > -----Original Message----- > From: sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of MF > Sent: August-28-13 12:26 PM > To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Campbell and MacGilvray question > > Kym > > Where please for the 1827 marriage of Neil Campbell/Margaret Beaton ? > > > Michael > www.mullfamilies.co.uk > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kym Lawrence" <kymlawrence@rogers.com> > To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 5:01 PM > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Campbell and MacGilvray question > > >>I have a Mary Margaret Beaton m. Neil Campbell in 1827. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of MF >> Sent: July-31-13 5:09 AM >> To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Campbell and MacGilvray question >> >> >> Neil Campbell/Marion also had a daughter Christina >> >> 25 Apr 1845 Barony, Glasgow, and Marion/Sarah 1841 from Census >> >> The 1841 below gives Mary as opposed to Margaret for 1836 birth/bap. >> These >> two names are constantly mixed up in transcription >> >> 1841 Census >> Piece: SCT1841/622 Place: Barony -Lanarkshire Enumeration District: 19 >> Civil >> Parish: Barony Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Martyrs >> Folio: 232 Page: 11 >> Address: Parson Street >> CAMPBELL Neil M 25 Agricultural Labourer Outside Census County >> (1841) >> CAMPBELL Sarah F 30 Outside Census County (1841) >> CAMPBELL Mary F 5 Lanarkshire >> CAMPBELL Sarah F 2m Lanarkshire >> >> >> Michael >> www.mullfamilies.co.uk >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ian Phillips" <mullgenealogy@gmail.com> >> To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 8:07 AM >> Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Campbell and MacGilvray question >> >> >>> So is Mary a brother to Duncan ? >>> >>> *Niel CAMPBELL* Birth : Estimated 1794 Baptised : Died : >>> Buried : Father >>> : Mother : Marriage 1 : Marion >>> BEATON<http://localhost/MullSearch.ASP?indv_no=24519> >>> Children Mary <http://localhost/MullSearch.ASP?indv_no=24520>(bir) >>> About 1833 - 30 December 1866 >>> >>> >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> >>> On 30 July 2013 20:37, Linda M. Towne <manateemum@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I was looking at the following census transription from Ian's site and >>>> am wondering if anyone has identified Duncan Campbell (born c. 1843) or >>>> Malcolm MacGilvray (born c. 1837). I believe Margaret Campbell is a >>>> grand-daugter of Mary (McKinnon) Beaton - born 3 Jan 1836 Barony to >>>> Neil >>>> Campbell/Marion Beaton. >>>> >>>> It's possible Duncan is Margaret's brother but that's pure conjecture. >>>> >>>> 1851 Kilfinichen & Kilvicheon District No : Page No : 118 House >>>> No : 4 Locality : Kinloch Sgridain 185120640 >>>> Beaton Mary 75 W cottar Kilfinichen >>>> Beaton Murdoch 36 Us agr labr Kilfinichen >>>> Campbell Margaret 15 v Glasgow >>>> Campbell Duncan 8 V Glasgow >>>> MacGilvray Malcolm 14 v Glasgow >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Linda >>>> www.ancestralplaces.co.uk >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Can you tell me the location of the Duart Paupers House? Am trying to see if these Campbell's are connected to my g uncle, Hugh McDougall Campbell who was thE famer on Duart Farm about this time until Duart Castle was taken back by the McLeans. Any information about the farm would also be appreciated. I was there in June and suspect the house they lived in (#3) has been demolished. Would also appreciate if anyone has or can steer me to a map of the castle, farm and grounds from about 1890 to 1910. Thank you Julia Sent from my iPad On 3 Sep 2013, at 11:13, "MF" <mf@mullfamilies.plus.com> wrote: > 1901 Torosay District No : 1 Page No : 6 House No : 27 Locality : Duart Paupers House 19017027 > Campbell Margaret 76 Head Pauper formerly Domestic Servant Torosay > Livingstone Mary 48 Dau Servant Domestic Argyll Torosay > McCrone Williamina 15 Grand daughter Scholar Argyll Torosay > Livingstone Helen 11 Grand daughter Scholar Argyll Torosay > Livingstone Malcolm 9 Grandson Scholar Argyll Torosay > McDonald William 1 Grandson Argyll Torosay > Campbell Donald 72 Brother Retired Drapers Clerk Argyll Torosay > > McDonald William aged 1 is < G-grandson > > His mother can only be Mary Ann Campbell or McDonald, an earlier natural daughter to Mary Livingston nee Campbell > > Mary Campbell had numerous natural children pre marriage, plus the two Livingstons, Helen and Malcolm > > I spent hours on this family, but as yet have still to establish who Mary's husband Alexander Livingston is. They were married 1888 Torosay > > 1888 LIVINGSTON ALEXANDER CAMPBELL MARY TOROSAY /ARGYLL 550/00 0001 > > Mary's mother Margaret (d/o Malcolm/Marion Colquhoun) never married and had at least Mary above and also a son 1855 Glasgow, by a Watson > > If anyone knows the origins of Alexander Livingston, please let me know > > > > Michael > www.mullfamilies.co.uk > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It is a point, I would agree and others have contributed well about it. Would you not think in the instance where English is not spoken or written, Scotland's People/GROS would have a note somewhere about it, in the same way they do about searching the maiden surname? Perhaps they have some guidance about it somewhere? I just wonder however whether women in particular would have learned how to write their name in English even if they could not speak or write in English, for the purposes of a legal document. The more I think about it, I find it a bit mean or even prejudicial to force someone to have to write their name in English. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "MF" <mf@mullfamilies.plus.com> To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Name sounding...Re: Gillies > Janet > > I think that the main reason is that all legal documents had to be written > in English, including signatures > > It's quite possible that many people who made the "X" could write in Gaelic > > My late mother born 1924 Gribun, had to learn English in school > > > X (Gaelic for Michael, per Sue's post) > www.mullfamilies.co.uk > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janet" <cilurnum@googlemail.com> > To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 8:54 PM > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Name sounding...Re: Gillies > > >> Michael, I think the cross in the box was sociological. It would take >> someone to survey >> and prove it. I am saying its down to family circumstances, ability, and >> all the other >> reasons for illiteracy and not just education alone. >> >> >> Janet >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

Janet I think that the main reason is that all legal documents had to be written in English, including signatures It's quite possible that many people who made the "X" could write in Gaelic My late mother born 1924 Gribun, had to learn English in school X (Gaelic for Michael, per Sue's post) www.mullfamilies.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet" <cilurnum@googlemail.com> To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Name sounding...Re: Gillies > Michael, I think the cross in the box was sociological. It would take > someone to survey > and prove it. I am saying its down to family circumstances, ability, and > all the other > reasons for illiteracy and not just education alone. > > > Janet >

Michael, I think the cross in the box was sociological. It would take someone to survey and prove it. I am saying its down to family circumstances, ability, and all the other reasons for illiteracy and not just education alone. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "MF" <mf@mullfamilies.plus.com> To: <leshorn@ythanonich.freeserve.co.uk>; <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Name sounding...Re: Gillies Les "eh?" was just me being a tad humourous :) I agree with virtually all you say, but how many "x" (mark) have we seen as substitute for a signature

Les "eh?" was just me being a tad humourous :) I agree with virtually all you say, but how many "x" (mark) have we seen as substitute for a signature < in 1872 Scotland moved to a system like that in England of state-sponsored largely free schools, run by local school boards. Overall administration was in the hands of the Scotch (later Scottish) Education Department in London. Education was now compulsory from five to thirteen and many new board schools were built > Michael www.mullfamilies.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: <leshorn@ythanonich.freeserve.co.uk> To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Name sounding...Re: Gillies Michael said > Most people were illiterate, and even those who could speak a little > English, didn't have our modern education I must take him to task over this. Scotland was/is one of the most/best educated countries and was at the forefront of education especially at the time when the Censuses were taken. The problem with inconsistency of spelling rests not with the literacy of the population but with the language itself. There was no real need to regularise spelling (of names) until formal (Goverment) record-keeping was established. When recording their name the person taking the record would ask the name and effectively write it down phonetically. Really it is not until the 20th Century that we became fanatical about regularised spelling; and even more so in the 21st. By the way for Eh? would be said 'gabh mo leisgeul' excuse/pardon me. The Gaels were nothing if not polite. Regards Les Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi A number of years ago I went to and OGS lecture where it was explained that the X did not necessarily mean the person could not write. However, I have since forgotten what the reason was. The lecturer was Fawne Stratford-Devai who is well known and an expert on many subjects......so I took her word for it. Now if I could just find my notes...... Elaine Robinson

Dear All, I am just sooooo amazed at all the knowledge you guys have. Congratulations. Is there anywhere to find out what all the abbreviations mean, that you use when corresponding. Would be a help perhaps, when I get that far. Sandra / Germany -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com] Im Auftrag von MF Gesendet: Sonntag, 1. September 2013 14:05 An: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com Betreff: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Gillies Janet Yes, Gillies is the modern or acceptable standard spelling Any ancestral spellings were fine, so long as it sounded correct Quite a few surnames had multiple spellings Michael www.mullfamilies.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet" <cilurnum@googlemail.com> To: "Les Horn" <Leshorn@ythanonich.freeserve.co.uk>; <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Gillies > As a matter of interest would GILLIES be an acceptable substitution for > the name? Perhaps > more 'recent ' usage > > Janet > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Janet I concur If our ancestors were asked "how do you spell that" ?, the question would most likely have to be spoken in Gaelic, and the answer would have been another question mark ! (or Gaelic for "eh?"). Most people were illiterate, and even those who could speak a little English, didn't have our modern education So, back then there was no right or wrong : as you say just 'soundex' Many of those spellings are now their own standards e.g. Millar, Miller, McGilvray, McGillivray etc....... Michael www.mullfamilies.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet" <cilurnum@googlemail.com> To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 4:18 PM Subject: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Name sounding...Re: Gillies I believe variations in names arose out of interpretation of how the name was said when it was needed to be recorded on paper; Soundex. Nowadays we say "how do you spell that" where there is a possibility of getting someone's name wrong, because we keep names on databases for many reasons. I also think it evolved from where people originated. Scotland's People advise http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?560 A name such as VIGROW will be found earlier in records as VIGROUX or VIGREOUX A name such as DUN in early records, becomes DUNN and DUNNE, another in my own records, SHERIT, SHERET, SHERRET, and when the people of that family migrated from Scotland to England to suggest it is in the accent, the name became SHERRAT and SHERRATT; it is a help in consideration of whether someone with a name sounding the same could be included in our records when we need to pay for a paper record to confirm a relationship. Janet

Michael said > Most people were illiterate, and even those who could speak a little English, didn't have our modern education I must take him to task over this. Scotland was/is one of the most/best educated countries and was at the forefront of education especially at the time when the Censuses were taken. The problem with inconsistency of spelling rests not with the literacy of the population but with the language itself. There was no real need to regularise spelling (of names) until formal (Goverment) record-keeping was established. When recording their name the person taking the record would ask the name and effectively write it down phonetically. Really it is not until the 20th Century that we became fanatical about regularised spelling; and even more so in the 21st. By the way for Eh? would be said 'gabh mo leisgeul' excuse/pardon me. The Gaels were nothing if not polite. Regards Les Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

I believe variations in names arose out of interpretation of how the name was said when it was needed to be recorded on paper; Soundex. Nowadays we say "how do you spell that" where there is a possibility of getting someone's name wrong, because we keep names on databases for many reasons. I also think it evolved from where people originated. Scotland's People advise http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?560 A name such as VIGROW will be found earlier in records as VIGROUX or VIGREOUX A name such as DUN in early records, becomes DUNN and DUNNE, another in my own records, SHERIT, SHERET, SHERRET, and when the people of that family migrated from Scotland to England to suggest it is in the accent, the name became SHERRAT and SHERRATT; it is a help in consideration of whether someone with a name sounding the same could be included in our records when we need to pay for a paper record to confirm a relationship. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra Becker" <Sandra.Davidson-Becker@gmx.de> To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Gillies Dear All, I am just sooooo amazed at all the knowledge you guys have. Congratulations. Is there anywhere to find out what all the abbreviations mean, that you use when corresponding. Would be a help perhaps, when I get that far. Sandra / Germany -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com] Im Auftrag von MF Gesendet: Sonntag, 1. September 2013 14:05 An: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com Betreff: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Gillies Janet Yes, Gillies is the modern or acceptable standard spelling Any ancestral spellings were fine, so long as it sounded correct Quite a few surnames had multiple spellings Michael www.mullfamilies.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet" <cilurnum@googlemail.com> To: "Les Horn" <Leshorn@ythanonich.freeserve.co.uk>; <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Gillies > As a matter of interest would GILLIES be an acceptable substitution for > the name? Perhaps > more 'recent ' usage > > Janet > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sandra You should just list what you're not sure of I refer a lot to GROS = http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/contacts/opentime/ or SP = http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/?gclid={SI:gclid}&gclid=CNygl7q6qrkCFUuWtAodaW4AZA Michael www.mullfamilies.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra Becker" <Sandra.Davidson-Becker@gmx.de> To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Gillies Dear All, I am just sooooo amazed at all the knowledge you guys have. Congratulations. Is there anywhere to find out what all the abbreviations mean, that you use when corresponding. Would be a help perhaps, when I get that far. Sandra / Germany

My grandmother was an educated woman who could read and write very well. Yet on documents that were signed by both my grandfather and her she would use the x. Catherine Victoria BC Elaine Robinson <elainer@cogeco.ca> wrote: Hi A number of years ago I went to and OGS lecture where it was explained that the X did not necessarily mean the person could not write. However, I have since forgotten what the reason was. The lecturer was Fawne Stratford-Devai who is well known and an expert on many subjects......so I took her word for it. Now if I could just find my notes...... Elaine Robinson ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message