Thanks! I double checked this and you are correct! The information I had from a family member, Rev. R C MacLean, says the death dates as 1905 and 1898. On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Linda M. Towne <manateemum@gmail.com>wrote: > Hello. > Ida had given a different death date for Lachlan in an earlier email > to the list (Sep 2013) > > "Little Britains Bible Christian Cemetery Marisposa twp., Victoria Co., > Ont which I have a copy of... > > Lachlan MacLean b 1830-died 1905 & his wife Margaret Black b 1840 died > 1898 Native of the Island of Mull" > > Just trying to verify which is accurate. Thanks! > > On 11/14/2013 9:51 PM, Dana & Ryan wrote: > > Lachlan MacLean married Margaret Black (christened 21 Jun > > 1831 Kilfinichen > > and Kilvicken d. 4 Jun 1924 in Mariposa, Victoria, Ontario, > > Canada > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello. Ida had given a different death date for Lachlan in an earlier email to the list (Sep 2013) "Little Britains Bible Christian Cemetery Marisposa twp., Victoria Co., Ont which I have a copy of... Lachlan MacLean b 1830-died 1905 & his wife Margaret Black b 1840 died 1898 Native of the Island of Mull" Just trying to verify which is accurate. Thanks! On 11/14/2013 9:51 PM, Dana & Ryan wrote: > Lachlan MacLean married Margaret Black (christened 21 Jun > 1831 Kilfinichen > and Kilvicken d. 4 Jun 1924 in Mariposa, Victoria, Ontario, > Canada

An interesting discussion on Mac/Mc - one which we've certainly had amongst our family over the years who are now a mix of the spelling like others. My great grandfather born 1836 on Mull is shown as MacPhail on the OPR, all emigration & NZ records are Mac. However we have a couple of documents he signed while on Mull, one a cheque on the Clydesdale Bank in 1865, where he signs his name as McPhail but in both cases there is a 'dot/full stop' under the 'c'. I recall someone saying that a dot under the 'c' signified a letter was missing (i.e. the 'a'). Has anyone else heard of this? Regards Moira

Linda I noted your comment amongst those discussing Mc and Mac, and found your observations about your own family names interesting. I have noted in Scottish census records that my family's names have altered between records, and, as others have also pointed out, surnames were anglicised, as was certainly the case with the name 'McMillan'. My Archibald McMillan and wife Flora McIntyre came to Australia in 1853 from Oskamull, dying there in 1871 and 1870. On both death certificates, their mothers are listed as being Christina McCormack. We are pretty certain (thanks to assistance from Ian Phillips) that Archibald's mother was in fact Christina McDonald and it was Flora's mother who was Christina McIntyre (nee McCormack). Do you have any connection to this family? I am always hoping that someone on the list can make a connection to our family, but as yet ... no one! Regards Libby McMillan Message: 3 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 08:43:33 -0500 From: "Linda M. Towne" <manateemum@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <528F5F85.8050004@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1256; format=flowed I tend to agree - my experience is that Mc/Mac/M' are all interchangeable in the years when most people weren't literate - it just depended on how the minister/session clerk/census enumerator etc.. spellt it. Different branches of the same family often settled on different spellings once spelling became fixed. My line uses MacCormick but I have cousins who use McCormick and MacCormack and the name has shown up on records as M'Cormick and far enough back as McCormaig as well. Today we see different spellings as distinct names and would never assume that McKechnie and MacEachern were from the same family but that wasn't true 150 years ago when a family may have been McKechnie in one census but 10 years earlier or later they were MacEachern. Same with Mc/Mac

James said > it seems to me the Mc/Mac dichotomy is merely a scribal abbreviation, and not something to really be too concerned about. Agreed. Far too much is put into the Mac, Mc thing. It should be. noted that M' is also used. > Seems the Duke took liberties in other ways too with the tartan.....seems now that this is illegal according to the current Duke. It should be noted that there is now an (official) Scottish Register of Tartan(www.tartanregister.gov.uk) which was established by an act of the Scottish Parliament in 2008. It is a database of tartan designs and is maintained by the National Records of Scotland. Regards Les Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

Hi Ida, All the information I have says that Flora was from Mull but I don't have any record for it. I have this from the paper in Duluth, MN: Date: Friday, April 16, 1920 Paper: Duluth News-Tribune (Duluth, MN) Volume: 51 Issue: 335 Page: 4 "MRS. D. MCLEAN BORN 1830 DIED APRIL 14 1920 Duluthians learned yesterday of the death of Mrs. Duncan McLean, age 90, formerly of Duluth, at Carmangay, Alberta. Mrs. McLean lived in Duluth for 20 years. She moved to Alberta in 1908 with her daughter Mrs. R.R. Knox, with whom she was living at the time of her death, which occured Wednesday. Mrs. McLean is survived by four sons, Hector, Angus and J.C. of Duluth and Duncan, who lives in Toronto and two daughters, Mrs. David McCarter of Saskatchewan and Miss Julia of Alberta, besides Mrs. Knox. The body will be brought to Duluth for internment." Picture is included. I was able to find this record: WHYTE, DONALD. A Dictionary of Scottish Emigrants to Canada before Confederation. Toronto: Ontario Genealogical Society. Volume 2, 1995. 435p. Name:Flora CameronArrival Year:1840Arrival Place:Ontario, CanadaSource Publication Code:9758.1Primary Immigrant:Cameron, Flora The first census I have is with she and Duncan in 1861: Duncan Mcclan MALE 41 1820 Scotland Married Flora Mcclan FEMALE 34 1827 Scotland Married Hector Mcclan MALE 5 1856 Canada Margaret Mcclan FEMALE 9 1852 Canada The Township of Mariposa---Victoria--- After Duncan's death 5 Sep 1908 Duluth, MN Flora and Julia, their daughter, go to Carmangay, Vulcan, Albert. They lived with another daughter Euphemia and her husband Robert Knox. I have not been able to find a marriage record for she and Duncan yet nor a record of her death in Carmangay. She is buried under Mrs. Flora McLean: Carmangay Strathmore Census Division Alberta, Canada Plot: Lot -- 02 --- Block -- 04The family cesus's I have show that Duncan and Flora were married in 1850and 1861 in Mariposa, Victoria, Ontario 1871, 1881 and 1891 in Nottawasaga, Simcoe, Ontario by 1900 they have moved to Duluth, MN. The 1911 and 1916 census's have Flora in Alberta. I would LOVE to find the marriage record because it would probably have Flora's parents on it. Dana On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Merle and Ida King <m_iking@mcsnet.ca>wrote: > Hi Dana > > Thanks again for your information it really helps.. > > I'm sure by now reading the posts we have various reason why the Mac & Mc > are interchangable (:-))) Thanks group I knew you would pick up on it... > SMILE > > Along with me/my blaming the Duke of Argyll for changing the various > surname > but can't prove it (:-) > > Anyways now I must ask about your Flora Cameron would you know if she came > from Mull as well.. Yes I'm a pain in the butt..... But I must ask as I > have > Cameron and McLean (and the variety of spellings of the McLaine) in my > lines coming for Knocknafenaig and settling in Grey Co Ont.. > > You mention : This Alexander died 18 March 1878 Mariposa, Ontario, Canada. > His oldest is named Charles. I don't have the early census other then the > 1881 census for Mariposa which wouldn't be any use in this case. So if you > find anything additional we'd love to add it > > Thanks again > Ida > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Seems the Duke took liberties in other ways too with the tartan. The book which my grandfather brought to Australia in 1850 shows the Clan Campbell tartan with both yellow and white stripes....seems now that this is illegal according to the current Duke. -----Original Message----- From: sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ruth MacCormack Sent: Friday, 22 November 2013 4:56 PM To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Angus MacLean Recently was on Mull and the Bunessan Heritage Centre was a great source of information. Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Janice Peasnell<mailto:2012janmp@gmail.com> Sent: ‎22/‎11/‎2013 06:17 To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com<mailto:sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Angus MacLean Hello Ida, I have never heard about the Duke of Argyl changing the term Mc to Mac or the other way around. It means the same thing in my family both are used and and even brothers used one or the other. Do you know which Duke of Argyl was reputed to have changed the term, there has been a lot of them. Jan Peasnell On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Merle and Ida King <m_iking@mcsnet.ca>wrote: > Hi Dana > > I hope you had a great trip to Mull. I believe the Duke of Argyll > changed the Mac to Mc I'm sure someone on the list will help further on that topic. > > Thanks for your information again. If you wouldn't mind adding who > your Duncan D McLean married both Ian and I would appreciate it. > > I'm more inclined to think the parents of your Angus would be Allan b > abt > 1766 and Annie McQuarrie as that family lacks children but it has a > Charles remaining in Sct with ch Lachlan & Alexander. But it's only my > guess. I found these Duncan McLean and hoped 1 would be yours so I > could link it up in my information. Any tidbit helps in the long run > of connecting these families up. > > 1881 Census Place: Mariposa, Victoria South, Ontario, Canada > Source: FHL Film 1375878 NAC C-13242 Dist 129 SubDist C Div 3 > Page 8 Family 39 Sex Marr Age Origin Birthplace John MCLEAN M M 30 > Scottish Scotland > Occ: Laborer Religion: C. Presbyterian Mary Anne MCLEAN F M 30 > Scottish O <Ontario> > Religion: C. Presbyterian > Duncan MCLEAN M M 60 Scottish Scotland (abt 1820) > Occ: Retired Religion: C. Presbyterian Catherine MCLEAN F M 65 > Scottish Scotland (abt 1820) > Religion: C. Presbyterian > Donald MCLEAN M 25 Scottish Scotland > Occ: Laborer Religion: C. Presbyterian > > 1881 Census Place: Mariposa, Victoria South, Ontario, Canada > Source: FHL Film 1375878 NAC C-13242 Dist 129 SubDist C Div 3 > Page 20 Family 91 Sex Marr Age Origin Birthplace Antony MCKINNON M M > 35 Scottish O <Ontario> > Occ: Farmer Religion: C. Presbyterian Christina MCKINNON F M 27 > Scottish O <Ontario> > Religion: C. Presbyterian > John Douglas MCKINNON M <1 Scottish O <Ontario> > Religion: C. Presbyterian > Born: Nov; 5/12 > Duncan MCLEAN M 60 Scottish Scotland > Occ: Labourer Religion: C. Presbyterian > > 1881 a younger one: > Census Place: Mariposa, Victoria South, Ontario, Canada > Source: FHL Film 1375878 NAC C-13242 Dist 129 SubDist C Div 3 > Page 34 Family 152 Sex Marr Age Origin Birthplace Duncan MCLEAN M M > 48 Scottish Scotland > Occ: Trader Religion: C. Baptist > Isabella MCLEAN F M 45 Scottish Scotland > Religion: C. Baptist > Donald MCLEAN M 23 Scottish O <Ontario> > Occ: Clerk Religion: C. Baptist > Sarah MCLEAN F 20 Scottish O <Ontario> > Occ: Music Teacher Religion: C. Baptist Hecter MCLEAN M 16 Scottish > O <Ontario> > Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Baptist Neil MCLEAN M 13 Scottish > O <Ontario> > Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Baptist Kattie MCLEAN F 10 > Scottish O <Ontario> > Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Baptist John MCLEAN M 8 Scottish O > <Ontario> > Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Baptist Minnie MCLEAN F 6 Scottish > O <Ontario> > Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Baptist Dellie MCLEAN F 4 Scottish > O <Ontario> > Religion: C. Baptist > > thanks again Ida > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dana & Ryan" <rdkelly24@gmail.com> > To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 8:16 AM > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Angus MacLean > > > > Hi Ida, > > Thank you for all the great information! Yes that is my family that > > were mentioned in "A Dictionary of Scottish Emigrants to Canada..." > > Lachlan is their son who was married to Maragret Black. My ancestor > > was his onther son, Duncan D McLean. I don't know why the spelling > > changed for my side > of > > the family. (McLean vs MacLean) I was able to find a marriage record > > for Angus MacLean and Euphemia MacKinnon on ScotlandsPeople. I also > > found the baptism for several of the children but not my ancestor. I > > was just in Mull recently and visisted the site of the Killunaig > > mill. (Where Angus once > > worked) I have been helped enormously by Michael and Christine. I > > have some research that was done by a relative, Rev. Ross Currie > > MacLean from Collingwood, Ontario, Canada. He was a desendent of > > Lachlan and Margaret Maclean. He was the one who suggested that > > Angus's father was Hector MacLean, mother Anne MacQuarrie. We are > > thinking now that it was possibly Allan MacLean and Anne MacQuarrie. > > Rev. R.C. talks about Angus also > coming > > to Ontario with the his nephews, Alexander and Lachlan. They are > > sons of Charles MacLean who remained on Mull and a couple of his > > decendents are Barbra McHarg and Anne Whyte. I'm trying to track > > down the nephews in Ontario. Flora MacLean and Neil Arbuthnot ended up in Collingwood also. > > The > > Hector you named Rev. R.C. names as a son of Angus. (He may have > > been a > > grandson?) On his marriage record Angus and Euphemia are named as > > his parents. The 1881 census has to be Lachlan and Margaret. It has > > all the right names. Thank you for the links and information! If I > > find the nephews, Lachlan and Alexander, I will post what I have. > > Dana > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Wow! This is fantastic Keith! Thank you so much! On 22/11/2013 3:46 AM, Keith Dash wrote: > The sailing route from Liverpool (the usual departure point) to Australia is > summarized in the extract below from the article "Leaving Home - The > Emigration of John Macdonald and his Family to Australia", which you can > find on the Emigrant Ships page of the Isle of Tiree Genealogy website > (www.tireegenealogy.com <http://www.tireegenealogy.com> ). There is a > day-by-day account of life on board an 1853 immigrant ship to Australia on > the Emigration to Australia page of the Dash Family History Australia > website (www.dashstory.com <http://www.dashstory.com> ). > > ___________________________ > > Keith Dash > > Sydney, Australia > > <http://www.tireegenealogy.com> www.tireegenealogy.com > > <http://www.collgenealogy.com> www.collgenealogy.com > > > > "Until the mid-1850s, sailing time to Australia of 5-6 months was common. In > England, companies advertised sailing times of 4 months, but few ships > achieved this. It depended on the sailing speed of the ship and how long it > was becalmed in the doldrums around the equator. Leaving England, the ships > sailed south in the Atlantic Ocean to Cape Town, where they were > re-provisioned, then sailed directly east across the Indian Ocean to > Australia. After the mid-1850s the route was non-stop, sailing south of Cape > Town to pick up the Roaring Forties for a high-speed dash east across the > Southern Ocean to Australia. This new route reduced sailing time to > Australia, which pleased the ships' owners but terrified the passengers > because of the heavy seas, extreme cold and the occasional iceberg > encountered in the Southern Ocean. From about the mid-1850s, many of the > sailing ships were fitted with coal-fired auxiliary steam engines. The > engines were small and powered only a single screw but they enabled the > ships to make headway through the doldrums, thus saving weeks of passage > time. Sailing times of 75-80 days could be achieved by using the non-stop > route and the auxiliary engine." > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Ida, I have never heard about the Duke of Argyl changing the term Mc to Mac or the other way around. It means the same thing in my family both are used and and even brothers used one or the other. Do you know which Duke of Argyl was reputed to have changed the term, there has been a lot of them. Jan Peasnell On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Merle and Ida King <m_iking@mcsnet.ca>wrote: > Hi Dana > > I hope you had a great trip to Mull. I believe the Duke of Argyll changed > the Mac to Mc I'm sure someone on the list will help further on that topic. > > Thanks for your information again. If you wouldn't mind adding who your > Duncan D McLean married both Ian and I would appreciate it. > > I'm more inclined to think the parents of your Angus would be Allan b abt > 1766 and Annie McQuarrie as that family lacks children but it has a Charles > remaining in Sct with ch Lachlan & Alexander. But it's only my guess. I > found these Duncan McLean and hoped 1 would be yours so I could link it up > in my information. Any tidbit helps in the long run of connecting these > families up. > > 1881 Census Place: Mariposa, Victoria South, Ontario, Canada > Source: FHL Film 1375878 NAC C-13242 Dist 129 SubDist C Div 3 Page 8 > Family 39 > Sex Marr Age Origin Birthplace > John MCLEAN M M 30 Scottish Scotland > Occ: Laborer Religion: C. Presbyterian > Mary Anne MCLEAN F M 30 Scottish O <Ontario> > Religion: C. Presbyterian > Duncan MCLEAN M M 60 Scottish Scotland (abt 1820) > Occ: Retired Religion: C. Presbyterian > Catherine MCLEAN F M 65 Scottish Scotland (abt 1820) > Religion: C. Presbyterian > Donald MCLEAN M 25 Scottish Scotland > Occ: Laborer Religion: C. Presbyterian > > 1881 Census Place: Mariposa, Victoria South, Ontario, Canada > Source: FHL Film 1375878 NAC C-13242 Dist 129 SubDist C Div 3 Page 20 > Family 91 > Sex Marr Age Origin Birthplace > Antony MCKINNON M M 35 Scottish O <Ontario> > Occ: Farmer Religion: C. Presbyterian > Christina MCKINNON F M 27 Scottish O <Ontario> > Religion: C. Presbyterian > John Douglas MCKINNON M <1 Scottish O <Ontario> > Religion: C. Presbyterian > Born: Nov; 5/12 > Duncan MCLEAN M 60 Scottish Scotland > Occ: Labourer Religion: C. Presbyterian > > 1881 a younger one: > Census Place: Mariposa, Victoria South, Ontario, Canada > Source: FHL Film 1375878 NAC C-13242 Dist 129 SubDist C Div 3 Page 34 > Family 152 > Sex Marr Age Origin Birthplace > Duncan MCLEAN M M 48 Scottish Scotland > Occ: Trader Religion: C. Baptist > Isabella MCLEAN F M 45 Scottish Scotland > Religion: C. Baptist > Donald MCLEAN M 23 Scottish O <Ontario> > Occ: Clerk Religion: C. Baptist > Sarah MCLEAN F 20 Scottish O <Ontario> > Occ: Music Teacher Religion: C. Baptist > Hecter MCLEAN M 16 Scottish O <Ontario> > Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Baptist > Neil MCLEAN M 13 Scottish O <Ontario> > Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Baptist > Kattie MCLEAN F 10 Scottish O <Ontario> > Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Baptist > John MCLEAN M 8 Scottish O <Ontario> > Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Baptist > Minnie MCLEAN F 6 Scottish O <Ontario> > Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Baptist > Dellie MCLEAN F 4 Scottish O <Ontario> > Religion: C. Baptist > > thanks again Ida > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dana & Ryan" <rdkelly24@gmail.com> > To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 8:16 AM > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Angus MacLean > > > > Hi Ida, > > Thank you for all the great information! Yes that is my family that were > > mentioned in "A Dictionary of Scottish Emigrants to Canada..." Lachlan is > > their son who was married to Maragret Black. My ancestor was his onther > > son, Duncan D McLean. I don't know why the spelling changed for my side > of > > the family. (McLean vs MacLean) I was able to find a marriage record for > > Angus MacLean and Euphemia MacKinnon on ScotlandsPeople. I also found the > > baptism for several of the children but not my ancestor. I was just in > > Mull > > recently and visisted the site of the Killunaig mill. (Where Angus once > > worked) I have been helped enormously by Michael and Christine. I have > > some > > research that was done by a relative, Rev. Ross Currie MacLean from > > Collingwood, Ontario, Canada. He was a desendent of Lachlan and Margaret > > Maclean. He was the one who suggested that Angus's father was Hector > > MacLean, mother Anne MacQuarrie. We are thinking now that it was possibly > > Allan MacLean and Anne MacQuarrie. Rev. R.C. talks about Angus also > coming > > to Ontario with the his nephews, Alexander and Lachlan. They are sons of > > Charles MacLean who remained on Mull and a couple of his decendents are > > Barbra McHarg and Anne Whyte. I'm trying to track down the nephews in > > Ontario. Flora MacLean and Neil Arbuthnot ended up in Collingwood also. > > The > > Hector you named Rev. R.C. names as a son of Angus. (He may have been a > > grandson?) On his marriage record Angus and Euphemia are named as his > > parents. The 1881 census has to be Lachlan and Margaret. It has all the > > right names. Thank you for the links and information! If I find the > > nephews, Lachlan and Alexander, I will post what I have. > > Dana > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

That's a good one Douglas! Sandra / Garmany -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com] Im Auftrag von Douglas Young Gesendet: Freitag, 22. November 2013 15:30 An: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com Betreff: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll It is said that the Scottish spelling must be MC and not MAC because the extra letter 'a' would use more ink and that runs counter to our reputation. Doug > From: cilurnum@googlemail.com > To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 12:17:05 +0000 > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > > It is often said, probably quite wrongly that Mc has an origin in Ireland. If this were > true, I believe it is known that people from Ireland settled in Mull many years ago. > I would be interested to know how those with families using Mac and others using Mc are > recorded in your records. > > Janet > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Phillips" <mullgenealogy@gmail.com> > To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 10:23 AM > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > > > > Hi, > > > > For what its worth I tend to agree with James. > > > > If you look at the census records some areas where recorded as 'Mc' and > > other areas 'Mac'. What I'm not sure off is why when children (and I guess > > that in most cases it would have been children who learnt to read and write > > first in a family) started to write they used 'Mc' or 'Mac'. I guess this > > could have been down to the teacher. Just a thought. > > > > Ian > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

You will note the care with which I worded my enquiry. It does seem to have gathered some interest so hopefully we will hear one way or the other. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Beaton" <james_beaton18@hotmail.com> To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > Before Ian replies to this, I would just like to throw in the thought that in looking at > these names, it is important not to place too much reliance on the orthographic > practices of potentially non Gaelic speaking second parties, as a means of tracing > whether or not a family has an Irish origin. My own view is that Mc having an origin in > Ireland is not correct, but at the same time, consideration needs to be given to what > "Ireland" means culturally in a Highland Gaelic speaking context, particularly in what > might loosely be termed folklore, which is actually about transmitting how things came > to be, rather than actual historical fact. This relates (in my view) to cultural origins > rather than necessarily specifically to an actual ancestor/family origin in Ireland, > although of course this is possible. Care is needed all round! > Best wishes > James > --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Hi Dana Thanks again for your information it really helps.. I'm sure by now reading the posts we have various reason why the Mac & Mc are interchangable (:-))) Thanks group I knew you would pick up on it... SMILE Along with me/my blaming the Duke of Argyll for changing the various surname but can't prove it (:-) Anyways now I must ask about your Flora Cameron would you know if she came from Mull as well.. Yes I'm a pain in the butt..... But I must ask as I have Cameron and McLean (and the variety of spellings of the McLaine) in my lines coming for Knocknafenaig and settling in Grey Co Ont.. You mention : This Alexander died 18 March 1878 Mariposa, Ontario, Canada. His oldest is named Charles. I don't have the early census other then the 1881 census for Mariposa which wouldn't be any use in this case. So if you find anything additional we'd love to add it Thanks again Ida

My Grandfather was Macquarie, Mcquarie, M'quarie and any combination of capital Q's, double r's, y's, the list goes on and on. However we spoke Erse or Irish, I don't know when they would have started thinking of themselves as Scot's/Irish. A lot of politics and sectarianism rolled into this one. However, I agree that looking at Gaelic name rendered into English by some English speaking official, lowland Scot, bilingual Gael, the only thing you can be sure of, is, that it is probably no right. Better we just revert to our proper names, though I suppose that would cause major arguments too!! Ni bhéarfainn broim dreólín ar dhuilleog cuillin agus is beag an puth gaoth é sin? Lachan Iain MacGuaire On 22 November 2013 13:34, James Beaton <james_beaton18@hotmail.com> wrote: > Before Ian replies to this, I would just like to throw in the thought that > in looking at these names, it is important not to place too much reliance > on the orthographic practices of potentially non Gaelic speaking second > parties, as a means of tracing whether or not a family has an Irish origin. > My own view is that Mc having an origin in Ireland is not correct, but at > the same time, consideration needs to be given to what "Ireland" means > culturally in a Highland Gaelic speaking context, particularly in what > might loosely be termed folklore, which is actually about transmitting how > things came to be, rather than actual historical fact. This relates (in my > view) to cultural origins rather than necessarily specifically to an actual > ancestor/family origin in Ireland, although of course this is possible. > Care is needed all round! > Best wishes > James > > > From: cilurnum@googlemail.com > > To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com > > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 12:17:05 +0000 > > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > > > > It is often said, probably quite wrongly that Mc has an origin in > Ireland. If this were > > true, I believe it is known that people from Ireland settled in Mull > many years ago. > > I would be interested to know how those with families using Mac and > others using Mc are > > recorded in your records. > > > > Janet > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ian Phillips" <mullgenealogy@gmail.com> > > To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 10:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > For what its worth I tend to agree with James. > > > > > > If you look at the census records some areas where recorded as 'Mc' and > > > other areas 'Mac'. What I'm not sure off is why when children (and I > guess > > > that in most cases it would have been children who learnt to read and > write > > > first in a family) started to write they used 'Mc' or 'Mac'. I guess > this > > > could have been down to the teacher. Just a thought. > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > --- > > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > > http://www.avast.com > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Sláinte, Lachaidh *Tha mo bhàta-foluaimein loma-làn easgannan?*

Before Ian replies to this, I would just like to throw in the thought that in looking at these names, it is important not to place too much reliance on the orthographic practices of potentially non Gaelic speaking second parties, as a means of tracing whether or not a family has an Irish origin. My own view is that Mc having an origin in Ireland is not correct, but at the same time, consideration needs to be given to what "Ireland" means culturally in a Highland Gaelic speaking context, particularly in what might loosely be termed folklore, which is actually about transmitting how things came to be, rather than actual historical fact. This relates (in my view) to cultural origins rather than necessarily specifically to an actual ancestor/family origin in Ireland, although of course this is possible. Care is needed all round! Best wishes James > From: cilurnum@googlemail.com > To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 12:17:05 +0000 > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > > It is often said, probably quite wrongly that Mc has an origin in Ireland. If this were > true, I believe it is known that people from Ireland settled in Mull many years ago. > I would be interested to know how those with families using Mac and others using Mc are > recorded in your records. > > Janet > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Phillips" <mullgenealogy@gmail.com> > To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 10:23 AM > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > > > > Hi, > > > > For what its worth I tend to agree with James. > > > > If you look at the census records some areas where recorded as 'Mc' and > > other areas 'Mac'. What I'm not sure off is why when children (and I guess > > that in most cases it would have been children who learnt to read and write > > first in a family) started to write they used 'Mc' or 'Mac'. I guess this > > could have been down to the teacher. Just a thought. > > > > Ian > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Ian and list members, It is with relief that I tell you that “The British King 1838/9 : Passengers and Descendants” is finished. The research is being typed and will be published in February in time for the 175th Anniversary of the ship coming to Australia from Tobermory. On this momentous anniversary there will be a gathering of descendants to celebrate their ancestors on 1 March, 2014, at the National Maritime Museum of Australia, Sydney. It should be a wonderful day, so far two Clans [and a piper] have committed to attending the event, and the Governor-General will be invited to open the day [not sure yet if Quentin Brice or General Peter Cosgrove] . The room that has been booked has a lovely view over the water , morning tea will be served. Judging by the menu sent from the caterers last week I don’t think anyone will eat lunch that day it looks scrumptious. If you are interested in obtaining the book which includes the history of your family, and/or attending the gathering please contact me a.s.a.p on dannyk@shoal.net.au and I will put you on the mailing list for updates and full details. I want to thank the many list members who have helped over the many years and those who have contributors have been acknowledged in the book. Kind regards Irene Kerr

It is often said, probably quite wrongly that Mc has an origin in Ireland. If this were true, I believe it is known that people from Ireland settled in Mull many years ago. I would be interested to know how those with families using Mac and others using Mc are recorded in your records. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Phillips" <mullgenealogy@gmail.com> To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > Hi, > > For what its worth I tend to agree with James. > > If you look at the census records some areas where recorded as 'Mc' and > other areas 'Mac'. What I'm not sure off is why when children (and I guess > that in most cases it would have been children who learnt to read and write > first in a family) started to write they used 'Mc' or 'Mac'. I guess this > could have been down to the teacher. Just a thought. > > Ian --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Congratulations Irene! I greatly admire your ability to keep at it over these many years. I hope you are proud of your accomplishment. How lucky for the Australian researchers who can look to your book for what must be an overwhelming amount of information. Elaine Robinson Georgetown ON CANADA -----Original Message----- From: Irene Kerr Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 8:47 PM To: SCT ISLE OF MULL ; SCT-ARGYLL rootsweb list Scotland ; SCT-INVERNESS-L ; SCT Tiree Genealogy Subject: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] British King ]ship] 1839 Genealogy Research Project Dear Ian and list members, It is with relief that I tell you that “The British King 1838/9 : Passengers and Descendants” is finished. The research is being typed and will be published in February in time for the 175th Anniversary of the ship coming to Australia from Tobermory. On this momentous anniversary there will be a gathering of descendants to celebrate their ancestors on 1 March, 2014, at the National Maritime Museum of Australia, Sydney. It should be a wonderful day, so far two Clans [and a piper] have committed to attending the event, and the Governor-General will be invited to open the day [not sure yet if Quentin Brice or General Peter Cosgrove] . The room that has been booked has a lovely view over the water , morning tea will be served. Judging by the menu sent from the caterers last week I don’t think anyone will eat lunch that day it looks scrumptious. If you are interested in obtaining the book which includes the history of your family, and/or attending the gathering please contact me a.s.a.p on dannyk@shoal.net.au and I will put you on the mailing list for updates and full details. I want to thank the many list members who have helped over the many years and those who have contributors have been acknowledged in the book. Kind regards Irene Kerr ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you. I am interested in knowing if there is a connection to those who travelled that you have included the Inverness List? Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irene Kerr" <dannyk@shoal.net.au> To: "SCT ISLE OF MULL" <SCT-ISLEOFMULL@rootsweb.com>; "SCT-ARGYLL rootsweb list Scotland" <SCT-ARGYLL@rootsweb.com>; "SCT-INVERNESS-L" <SCT-INVERNESS-L-request@rootsweb.com>; "SCT Tiree Genealogy" <SCT-ARL-TIREE-L-request@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 1:47 AM Subject: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] British King ]ship] 1839 Genealogy Research Project > Dear Ian and list members, > It is with relief that I tell you that “The British King 1838/9 : Passengers and > Descendants” is finished. The research is being typed and will be published in February > in time for the 175th Anniversary of the ship coming to Australia from Tobermory. On > this momentous anniversary there will be a gathering of descendants to celebrate their > ancestors on 1 March, 2014, at the National Maritime Museum of Australia, Sydney. It > should be a wonderful day, so far two Clans [and a piper] have committed to attending > the event, and the Governor-General will be invited to open the day [not sure yet if > Quentin Brice or General Peter Cosgrove] . The room that has been booked has a lovely > view over the water , morning tea will be served. Judging by the menu sent from the > caterers last week I don’t think anyone will eat lunch that day it looks scrumptious. > If you are interested in obtaining the book which includes the history of your family, > and/or attending the gathering please contact me a.s.a.p on dannyk@shoal.net.au and I > will put you on the mailing list for updates and full details. > I want to thank the many list members who have helped over the many years and those who > have contributors have been acknowledged in the book. > Kind regards > Irene Kerr --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Hi, For what its worth I tend to agree with James. If you look at the census records some areas where recorded as 'Mc' and other areas 'Mac'. What I'm not sure off is why when children (and I guess that in most cases it would have been children who learnt to read and write first in a family) started to write they used 'Mc' or 'Mac'. I guess this could have been down to the teacher. Just a thought. Ian On 22 November 2013 09:25, James Beaton <james_beaton18@hotmail.com> wrote: > I am not sure that the Duke is the man we need to be looking to for this, > as I think that the ministers and eventually the registrars when the > registration of births, deaths and marriages became compulsory are more > likely to have been the people responsible for it. Certainly, there would > have been mention of names in the Argyll Estate papers, but officialdom was > more related to ecclesiastical and subsequently official records of the > state. > I have some evidence of the involvement of ministers in the Anglicisation > of surnames in the Inveraray area (which is not directly the subject that > we are on, but one which is closely related). Some of my Inveraray > ancestors had the surname Bell, which was originally given in the parish > register of Glenaray and Inveraray as MacIlvoyle or McIlvoyle, (Gaelic Mac > Ghille Mhaoil - son of the servant of the tonsured one), but in the mid > 18th century this changes in the parish register to Bell, and it seems to > me that the minister of the day is responsible for this, although there is > gravestone evidence in the parish that these Gaelic speaking people still > considered their surname to be MacIlvoyle. > Just to add to my own personal tuppenceworth, it seems to me the Mc/Mac > dichotomy is merely a scribal abbreviation, and not something to really be > too concerned about. > James > > From: jiwhimp@optusnet.com.au > > To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com > > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 17:52:02 +1030 > > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > > > > Seems the Duke took liberties in other ways too with the tartan. The > book which my grandfather brought to Australia in 1850 shows the Clan > Campbell tartan with both yellow and white stripes....seems now that this > is illegal according to the current Duke. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: > sct-isleofmull-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ruth MacCormack > > Sent: Friday, 22 November 2013 4:56 PM > > To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Angus MacLean > > > > Recently was on Mull and the Bunessan Heritage Centre was a great source > of information. > > > > Sent from my Windows Phone > > ________________________________ > > From: Janice Peasnell<mailto:2012janmp@gmail.com> > > Sent: 22/11/2013 06:17 > > To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com<mailto:sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> > > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Angus MacLean > > > > Hello Ida, > > > > I have never heard about the Duke of Argyl changing the term Mc to Mac > or the other way around. It means the same thing in my family both are > used and and even brothers used one or the other. Do you know which Duke of > Argyl was reputed to have changed the term, there has been a lot of them. > > > > Jan Peasnell > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Merle and Ida King <m_iking@mcsnet.ca > >wrote: > > > > > Hi Dana > > > > > > I hope you had a great trip to Mull. I believe the Duke of Argyll > > > changed the Mac to Mc I'm sure someone on the list will help further > on that topic. > > > > > > Thanks for your information again. If you wouldn't mind adding who > > > your Duncan D McLean married both Ian and I would appreciate it. > > > > > > I'm more inclined to think the parents of your Angus would be Allan b > > > abt > > > 1766 and Annie McQuarrie as that family lacks children but it has a > > > Charles remaining in Sct with ch Lachlan & Alexander. But it's only my > > > guess. I found these Duncan McLean and hoped 1 would be yours so I > > > could link it up in my information. Any tidbit helps in the long run > > > of connecting these families up. > > > > > > 1881 Census Place: Mariposa, Victoria South, Ontario, Canada > > > Source: FHL Film 1375878 NAC C-13242 Dist 129 SubDist C Div 3 > > > Page 8 Family 39 Sex Marr Age Origin Birthplace John MCLEAN M M 30 > > > Scottish Scotland > > > Occ: Laborer Religion: C. Presbyterian Mary Anne MCLEAN F M 30 > > > Scottish O <Ontario> > > > Religion: C. Presbyterian > > > Duncan MCLEAN M M 60 Scottish Scotland (abt 1820) > > > Occ: Retired Religion: C. Presbyterian Catherine MCLEAN F M 65 > > > Scottish Scotland (abt 1820) > > > Religion: C. Presbyterian > > > Donald MCLEAN M 25 Scottish Scotland > > > Occ: Laborer Religion: C. Presbyterian > > > > > > 1881 Census Place: Mariposa, Victoria South, Ontario, Canada > > > Source: FHL Film 1375878 NAC C-13242 Dist 129 SubDist C Div 3 > > > Page 20 Family 91 Sex Marr Age Origin Birthplace Antony MCKINNON M M > > > 35 Scottish O <Ontario> > > > Occ: Farmer Religion: C. Presbyterian Christina MCKINNON F M 27 > > > Scottish O <Ontario> > > > Religion: C. Presbyterian > > > John Douglas MCKINNON M <1 Scottish O <Ontario> > > > Religion: C. Presbyterian > > > Born: Nov; 5/12 > > > Duncan MCLEAN M 60 Scottish Scotland > > > Occ: Labourer Religion: C. Presbyterian > > > > > > 1881 a younger one: > > > Census Place: Mariposa, Victoria South, Ontario, Canada > > > Source: FHL Film 1375878 NAC C-13242 Dist 129 SubDist C Div 3 > > > Page 34 Family 152 Sex Marr Age Origin Birthplace Duncan MCLEAN M M > > > 48 Scottish Scotland > > > Occ: Trader Religion: C. Baptist > > > Isabella MCLEAN F M 45 Scottish Scotland > > > Religion: C. Baptist > > > Donald MCLEAN M 23 Scottish O <Ontario> > > > Occ: Clerk Religion: C. Baptist > > > Sarah MCLEAN F 20 Scottish O <Ontario> > > > Occ: Music Teacher Religion: C. Baptist Hecter MCLEAN M 16 Scottish > > > O <Ontario> > > > Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Baptist Neil MCLEAN M 13 Scottish > > > O <Ontario> > > > Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Baptist Kattie MCLEAN F 10 > > > Scottish O <Ontario> > > > Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Baptist John MCLEAN M 8 Scottish O > > > <Ontario> > > > Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Baptist Minnie MCLEAN F 6 Scottish > > > O <Ontario> > > > Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Baptist Dellie MCLEAN F 4 Scottish > > > O <Ontario> > > > Religion: C. Baptist > > > > > > thanks again Ida > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dana & Ryan" <rdkelly24@gmail.com> > > > To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 8:16 AM > > > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Angus MacLean > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ida, > > > > Thank you for all the great information! Yes that is my family that > > > > were mentioned in "A Dictionary of Scottish Emigrants to Canada..." > > > > Lachlan is their son who was married to Maragret Black. My ancestor > > > > was his onther son, Duncan D McLean. I don't know why the spelling > > > > changed for my side > > > of > > > > the family. (McLean vs MacLean) I was able to find a marriage record > > > > for Angus MacLean and Euphemia MacKinnon on ScotlandsPeople. I also > > > > found the baptism for several of the children but not my ancestor. I > > > > was just in Mull recently and visisted the site of the Killunaig > > > > mill. (Where Angus once > > > > worked) I have been helped enormously by Michael and Christine. I > > > > have some research that was done by a relative, Rev. Ross Currie > > > > MacLean from Collingwood, Ontario, Canada. He was a desendent of > > > > Lachlan and Margaret Maclean. He was the one who suggested that > > > > Angus's father was Hector MacLean, mother Anne MacQuarrie. We are > > > > thinking now that it was possibly Allan MacLean and Anne MacQuarrie. > > > > Rev. R.C. talks about Angus also > > > coming > > > > to Ontario with the his nephews, Alexander and Lachlan. They are > > > > sons of Charles MacLean who remained on Mull and a couple of his > > > > decendents are Barbra McHarg and Anne Whyte. I'm trying to track > > > > down the nephews in Ontario. Flora MacLean and Neil Arbuthnot ended > up in Collingwood also. > > > > The > > > > Hector you named Rev. R.C. names as a son of Angus. (He may have > > > > been a > > > > grandson?) On his marriage record Angus and Euphemia are named as > > > > his parents. The 1881 census has to be Lachlan and Margaret. It has > > > > all the right names. Thank you for the links and information! If I > > > > find the nephews, Lachlan and Alexander, I will post what I have. > > > > Dana > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

It is said that the Scottish spelling must be MC and not MAC because the extra letter 'a' would use more ink and that runs counter to our reputation. Doug > From: cilurnum@googlemail.com > To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 12:17:05 +0000 > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > > It is often said, probably quite wrongly that Mc has an origin in Ireland. If this were > true, I believe it is known that people from Ireland settled in Mull many years ago. > I would be interested to know how those with families using Mac and others using Mc are > recorded in your records. > > Janet > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Phillips" <mullgenealogy@gmail.com> > To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 10:23 AM > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Duke of argyll > > > > Hi, > > > > For what its worth I tend to agree with James. > > > > If you look at the census records some areas where recorded as 'Mc' and > > other areas 'Mac'. What I'm not sure off is why when children (and I guess > > that in most cases it would have been children who learnt to read and write > > first in a family) started to write they used 'Mc' or 'Mac'. I guess this > > could have been down to the teacher. Just a thought. > > > > Ian > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message