Hi Duncan, Hope you have a great trip but please do allow enough time. You will kick yourself if after having traveled so far you are not able to see all that you want to. As many list members can tell you, you cannot get round Mull and see and do all you will want to in a day. I would strongly suggest that you bounce your travel plans in Scotland to the list. Regards, Ian -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web

Hi Duncan, Hope you have a great trip but please do allow enough time. You will kick yourself if after having traveled so far you are not able to see all that you want to. As many list members can tell you, you cannot get round Mull and see and do all you will want to in a day. I would strongly suggest that you bounce your travel plans in Scotland to the list. Regards, Ian -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE – Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE

Hi Jean Your Jean MacDougall would be around same time as my Neil. Do you have any siblings for her or do you have her parents and /or places etc Tricia. JeanetJean <jeanetjean@wanadoo.fr> wrote: > > I am also very keen to have contact with a Macdougall expert. My > g-g-g-grandmother, Isabella Macdougal married James Campbell and >

_____ De : Louise MacDougall [mailto:macdougallclan@shaw.ca] Envoyé : mardi 11 septembre 2007 17:10 À : JeanetJean Objet : Re: early censuses & macdougalls Hi Jean, I got your message but it looks like it didn't post to the List like you intended. Send it again, making sure that you have chosen the Plain Text style and use this address: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com I'll reply to you on the List and also privately. I think you have a good chance of being related to Mary the Poetess because of your Campbells -- she had Campbell connections. Till later, Louise ----- Original Message ----- From: JeanetJean <jeanetjean@wanadoo.fr> Date: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:39 am Subject: early censuses & macdougalls To: sct-isleofmull-request@rootsweb.com Cc: macdougallclan@shaw.ca > I was very interested in what Louise Macdougall had to say about early > censuses although I have heard that Tiree was better than Mull > on maiden > names. > > I am also very keen to have contact with a Macdougall expert. My > g-g-g-grandmother, Isabella Macdougal married James Campbell and > had 4 sons, > John, Neil, Donald and James, born between 1790 and 1800. John > married a > Flora Cameron from Tiree in 1813. > > The 4 sons went to Canada (Ontario and Quebec) about 1822. My > ancestor,Neil, was a tenant in Shiaba before leaving Mull. He > became a Baptist in > Scotland. > > We know nothing else about Isabella. I like to imagine that she > was related > to the author of "Child in the Manger", also a Baptist in Shiaba > about that > time, but there is no proof of that whatsoever. > > If by any chance you can shed any light on Isabella's background > we should > be very grateful. > > > Jean > >

Hi, best wishes to all on the list. Looking through the digest suggests that we ought to plan to come via the USA and Canada to England and Scotland when we visit in a year or so. Although, we have little time to travel because of job commitments so it will be a bit of a dash. I am hoping to have a much better grasp of our family history on Mull, in Glasgow, in other parts of Argyle and in Invernessshire by the time we visit. There is a major piece of work going on in NZ at the moment looking at the migration of Scots to NZ,and a small exhibit about the influence of Scots on NZ at our National Museum - Te Papa Best Wishes Duncan Duncan & Pam McMillan

Hi Jacqueline, Sounds like you are having a wonderful time on your trip. I am so jealous - will be another year before I can return to Scotland. Was wondering if you would share the Coll McLean information you mentioned in your message. Hope you continue to have a wonderful trip and that you come across some useful information. Regards, Linda Bennion (North Carolina) ----- Original Message ----- From: <h.j.arch@ns.sympatico.ca> To: <ian.phillips@ukonline.co.uk>; <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com>; <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Greetings from Tobermory, Mull > Hi Ian: > We are still in Scotland. After leaving you on Mull we took the car and > drove up through Inverarry, Invergarry and then on up to Skye. Did the > round trip there and then up Loch Ness to Culloden. Spent a whole day > there going all over the battlefield. Down to Edinburgh - researching the > Archives and now researching in Glasgow today then back to Edinburgh and > on to Dublin. Beautiful, beautiful country even if it is raining, > although we had a few good days. Thank you so much for the wonderful tour > of Mull as Margie and I will never forget it. (even the driving!!) > Have you seen Brenda since? > I think that you are right about the McLeans, and they are the Coll > McLeans. I looked through some of the Tiree/Coll films today but it is > not early enough to make the connections. > Have a safe trip home. > Jacqueline >>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Ian: We are still in Scotland. After leaving you on Mull we took the car and drove up through Inverarry, Invergarry and then on up to Skye. Did the round trip there and then up Loch Ness to Culloden. Spent a whole day there going all over the battlefield. Down to Edinburgh - researching the Archives and now researching in Glasgow today then back to Edinburgh and on to Dublin. Beautiful, beautiful country even if it is raining, although we had a few good days. Thank you so much for the wonderful tour of Mull as Margie and I will never forget it. (even the driving!!) Have you seen Brenda since? I think that you are right about the McLeans, and they are the Coll McLeans. I looked through some of the Tiree/Coll films today but it is not early enough to make the connections. Have a safe trip home. Jacqueline >> > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Libby, Might be an worth posting your message to sct-argyll@rootsweb.com. Ian -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE – Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE

Hey, just in from Micki Meechan "Hi Scott, I hope you remember me from the Tiree Gathering (Guelph, Ontario, Canada 2004)...Micki Meechan. I was living in NJ then but have since moved to South Carolina. Anyway, Moira Cameron is from Lochgilphead, Scotland (you may already have learned this). I check out the Oban Times online each week and saw a headline there about her. The website is www.obantimes.co.uk. I often see interesting things there. I also get the Rampant Scotland Newsletter on line www.rampantscotland.com/letter.htm and that is also great for Scottish news. Hope this helps and I enjoy receiving your EMails, Slainte, Micki P.S. I also follow your progress in the Marathons and think you are doing great!" FYI, I went to Lochgilphead re: mapquest...just south of Oban. Aye, no doubt Moira is related to me. Thanks Micki for the email. Now we know. Cheers, Scott http://jscottcameron.blogspot.com

Moira Cameron, who is the first woman to serve as a Yeoman Warder at the Tower of London, Monday September 3, 2007, joining the 35 guards who protect the Crown Jewels. Cameron, a Warrant Officer Class 2 who joined the army at age 16, and now joins the Yeoman Warders, known as Beefeaters, as the first woman to serve here since the corps was created in 1485. AP Photo/Cathal McNaughton http://www.sacbee.com/857/story/358159.html I love it! Thanks for posting. I read of such on the fly, but did not realize it was a CAMERON! This is so cool. My daughters Laura and Jennifer are going to hear of this, likewise for my sisters, Christine, Heather and Allison as well as the world full of Cameron lassies! Aye, a Scots at that! A thousand loud cheers as our good friend Archie Mackinnon from Guelph, Ontario, Canada would cry ... my neighbour both we are ... Isle of Tiree, Scotland descendants! Slainte, Scott http://jscottcameron.blogspot.com Aye, blog is a wee behind, but I have been very busy. Check out Moira Cameron's links at http://rss.news.yahoo.com/imgrss/events/wl/090407femalebeefeate and http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=SUNA,SUNA:2006-02,SUNA:en&q=moira+cameron+yeoman+argyll Yeoman Warder Moira Cameron, the first female Beefeater starts work at the Tower of London, September 3, 2007. A 42-year-old Scottish woman became the first female 'Beefeater' on Monday, taking up her post as a guardian of Britain's Tower of London. (Luke MacGregor/Reuters). Moira is the first female guardian of the Tower of London in the Beefeaters' 522-year history started her new job on Monday. Cameron, 42, from Argyll in Scotland, beat five men to secure the coveted position.Aye, a Scots at that, all the better being from Argyll where my family is from! Anyone know where in Argyll? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- YO, WOMAN! For the first time in its 522 years, a woman began work on Monday as a member of the Yeomen of the Guard who act as warders at the Tower of London. Because one condition for joining the Guard is a continuous period of 20 years in the armed forces, reaching at least the rank of staff sergeant, it is only recently that women have become eligible to join the warders' ranks. Most papers that reported the event jokingly called the new member, Moira CAMERON, a yeowoman, no doubt believing they had invented it. But it turns out to have a long history - the OED's first example is from 1852. It became more widely known during the First World War when women began to serve in the US Navy. They had the official rank of Yeoman (F), "F" denoting female, as you would guess. An informal term was "yeomanette", which the women hated; "yeowoman" was a common alternative. The last member of the group, Charlotte WINTERS, died only last March at the age of 109. Both "yeomanette" and "yeowoman" vanished after the War except in reference to this period. Among other meanings, yeoman was the name given to a superior servant in a noble or royal household, one who often ate meat (in Old English, humbler servants were called loaf-eaters, who mainly subsisted on bread). Such well-fed menials were derisively named "beef-eaters" and this is the source of the famous nickname of the members of the Yeoman of the Guard, who acquired it in the seventeenth century. These days they carry it with pride. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Listers I hope someone might have some ideas for me. I have been searching for a McIntyre connection in Portland, Victoria Australia - noting that Archibald McMillan who mararied Flora McIntyre in 1816 was from Oskamull, travelling to Portland Australia in 1853. At the death of their grandson Angus McMillan (1874-1888) in Victoria in 1888 (son of their son John McMillan - born in Mull in 1830 and Margaret McDonald from Stenscholl, Skye), one of the witnesses was Dugald McIntyre. The other interesting fact is that my father was named Neil McIntyre McMillan and there was a tradition in my family to name people with the given name and surname of other relatives (as a middle name). Hence my father had a brother Hector McDonald McMillan and another Colin Campbell McMillan and so on. The Ballarat Genealogical Website has this family listed. Incidentally, for those of you who have family who came to Victoria should check this website which is managed by Daryl Povey - it is fantastic. http://www.ballaratgenealogy.org.au I have looked up Lochgilphead and it is clear that it is not in Mull. So I am wondering if Flora McIntyre who married Archibald McMillan in fact came from this place. I have found the following information: Lochgilphead stands, as the name suggests, at the head of Loch Gilp, a short loch leading north west from Loch Fyne. The town was first laid out as a planned settlement in about 1790, only a few years after the completion of the road from Inveraray to Campbeltown. Lochgilphead's position became still more important in 1801, with the opening of the Crinan Canal providing a short cut across the Kintyre peninsula. After passing down Lochgilphead's western side this meets Loch Fyne at Ardrishaig, two miles to the south. From 1819 Ardrishaig had a regular steamer connection to Glasgow, with an onward connection along the canal to Lochgilphead. In 1831 Lochgilphead acquired its own pier, and by then it had also been linked to Oban by road. Dugald McINTYRE 1793-1873 & Mary McGILP 1802-1863 Lochgilphead, Argyllshire, Scotland to Hotspur & "Laggan" Merino, Victoria, Australia Dugald McINTYRE b. 1793, Lochgilphead, Argyllshire, Scotland, son of John McINTYRE and Mary Mary LIVINGSTONE was married in 1826 at Kilmichael Inverlussay, North Knapdale, Argyllshire (Arl), Scotland to Mary McGILP, b. 1802, North Knapdale, Argyllshire, Scotland, daughter of Neil McGILP and Mary CAMPBELL. The McINTYRE family arrived at Portland, Victoria, Australia in 1853 on the 'Duke of Richmond' and first settled near Hotspur before aquiring land to the north at Merino which they named "Laggan". The family lived at Hotspur, Merino, with some branches moving north to Nareen and later to Toowoomba in Queensland where they remained for a few years before some returned to Merino in Victoria. (Note: This is the same area where my McMillan family settled.) Dugald & Mary McINTYRE died in 1873 and 1863 respectively and are both buried in the "Laggan" Private Cemetery at Talisker, near Merino, Victoria. Dugald McINTYRE and Mary McGILP had the following known family: Neil McINTYRE, b.1827, Lochgilphead, Argyllshire, Scotland, d. 1890 "Laggan" Talisker (nr Merino), Vic. John McINTYRE, b.1829, Lochgilphead, Argyllshire, Scotland, d. 1857 "Laggan" Talisker (nr Merino), Vic. Nancy "Ann" McINTYRE, b.1831, Lochgilphead, Argyllshire, Scotland, d. 1877 Toowoomba, Queensland, m. Archibald CONNELL 1829-1909. Margaret McINTYRE, b.1834, Lochgilphead, Argyllshire, Scotland, d. ___? Duncan McINTYRE, b.1834, Lochgilphead, Argyllshire, Scotland, d. 1911, Dalby, Queensland. Angus McINTYRE, b.1837, Lochgilphead, Argyllshire, Scotland, d. 1910 "Laggan" Talisker (nr Merino), Vic., m. Mary CAMPBELL 1841-1928 Dugald McINTYRE, b.1839, Lochgilphead, Argyllshire, Scotland, d. 1900, Merino, Victoria, m. Ann GARDINER 1848-1929. Mary McINTYRE, b.1842, Lochgilphead, Argyllshire, Scotland, d. 1916, Merino, Victoria, m. Henry Michael BRADY. Archibald McINTYRE, b.1845, Lochgilphead, Argyllshire, Scotland, d. 1897 "Laggan" Talisker (nr Merino), Vic. Catherine McINTYRE, b.1848, Lochgilphead, Argyllshire, Scotland, d. ___? Queensland, m. John MATHESON 1838-1909. I hope that someone can help me with either some information or some ideas. Regards Libby McMillan (libbymcm@tpg.com.au)

Hi Ian, Sorry to hear that the weather is bad. Hope it brightens up for your second week as it did for us. Keep smiling, June. >From: "ian.phillips@ukonline.co.uk" <ian.phillips@ukonline.co.uk> >Reply-To: ian.phillips@ukonline.co.uk, sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com >To: sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com >Subject: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Greetings from Tobermory, Mull >Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 03:33:41 -0400 > >Hi All, > >Stay where you are are. Weather here not that good unless you are looking >for rain. > >Last Sunday I went for a walk to Gualacholish which is near Killean burial >ground. You might member that there was a message posted on the list last >Sunday (UK) requesting photographs of the burial ground as part of a PhD >thesis. I read this message about ten minutes before I went on the walk. >What timing ! Have to say that I would have taken photographs anyway. Great >walk and got to see sea eagles, seals, otters, deer and adders (UK's only >poisonous snake). > >Also got good views over Eilean Amalaig on which a castle is indicated on >current maps. A good while ago I had a request for confirmation that the >castle exits. I can only report that I could not see any trace of the >castle. I have photographs and would be happy to send them to whoever it >was that made the request if they contact me off list. > >On Monday I had a gentle walk along Loch na Keil. Nothing much to report >from here apart from a pair of golden eagles. > >Tuesday was the day that I subjected list member Jacqueline Archibald and a >friend of hers to a day trip round the island. Not sure whether she has >recovered from my driving but she left the island the next morning. I hope >there is no connection between the two events. Like many visitors to the >island Jacqueline was surprised how big it is and how long it takes to go >right round. As a guide to those thinking of visiting the island a trip >from Tobermory I take the road to Dervaig, then on to Calgary, Torloisk, >Ulva Ferry, Gruline, Gribun, Kinloch, Bunessan and Fionnphort for Iona. >Return run is via Glen More, Craignure and Salen. Allowing for the ferry >across to Iona, the walk to and round the Abbey the whole trip takes around >8 or 9 hours. It was good to meet Jacqueline. > >Wednesday was a nothing day. Not much point in going out to get wet though >and I have walking weatherproofs. It was that bad. > >Thursday took me down to the Maclean Chapel at Laggan. Unfortunately my >camera batteries went on this trip so only got one photograph on the >outside of the chapel. Can report that preservation work at Moy Castle is >well under way. > >On Friday I went with the local historical society to the Scottish Crannog >Centre (see www.crannog.org) where an old crannog dwelling has been >reconstructed. As part of their exhibition they had a map of know crannog >sites which did not show the best known Mull crannog in Glen More. This one >is shown as such on current maps. On the way back we stopped at the Ben >Curachan Hydro Power station at Loch Awe. Like many I have passed the >station many times on the road to or from Oban but never been in. An >interesting place to visit but be prepared to have facts and figures thrown >at you all the time. > >Yesterday was then second day of the Mull Mod. It was good to see all the >competitors in highland gear and hear the singing. Would have been better >if the weather was better. When it's nice the choirs practice all along >Main Street. Site and sounds to behold. I'm afraid to report that the Isle >of Mull Gaelic Choir did not do that well. > >I'm hoping that the weather will improve as I would like to get to the old >settlement of Inivea above Calgary Bay today. > >Take care, > >Ian > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web LIVE – Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - >http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk

Hi again Ian, Continuing on from my previous message, although I think the 1776 census for Mull should be easy to obtain, the story about the 1792 is a little more complicated. Last year, when making copies of MacDougall genealogy research done by my Scottish cousin, I came across a handwritten list ofall the MacDougalls of Tiree as enumerated in the 1792 Census. My cousin explained that she had visited Eric Cregeen at his office in the 1970’s and he told her about the 1792 Census. He let her copy the MacDougalls from his work. It appears that he was working on the 1792 census with an eye to publishing it in book form similar to the book he published in 1963 called Inhabitants of the Argyll Estates 1779. Unfortunately, he passed away in 1983, with this and many other projects unfinished. The question is, what became of the orginal 1792 census and also his own work he was doing on it? Last year, the Tiree Archive told me that enquiries had been made after his death to his widow about the 1792 census. But it was apparently not to be found in his papers. At last report, the Duke of Argyll’s Archives also said they did not have it. But I think these enquiries were done a long time ago, and maybe new enquiries might turn up different results. It is quite likely that the original 1792 census was still in Eric Cregreen’s possession when he passed away. I makes sense that he probably wouldn’t have returned it to the Duke’s Archives until his book was ready for publication. However,it is also possible that he returned it earlier if he felt he had all the data he needed from it. But either way, his own work on it would still be in his own papers. So, I’m wondering if you can talk to the various Mull archives about putting in official enquiries about the 1792 census? Or find out if it would be of use for a grassroots petition to be started to find that census? It would be such a treasure of genealogical information, falling as it does between the 1779 and the 1841. Thanks again, Louise ___________________________ Louise MacDougall Vancouver Island, BC Canada

Hi Ian, Long time no talk. I see you are on Mull now and wanted to catch you while you were there to see if you can enquire again about two Mull censuses (1776 and 1792) that would be very valuable additions to Mull research. Last year when I was at MUGG, I had asked about these censuses at the Mull Museum and the Ross of Mull archives, but to no avail. I mean,not only did they not have them, but they said they hadn’t hear of them. Curious since you have them listed on your website www.mullgenealogy.co.uk , under FAQs, Census Details as follows: -1776 Accurate farm by farm census -1792 Accurate farm by farm census compiled in October I know the 1776 census should be available even though the 1792 may not be. When I was at the Tiree archive last year, I saw the 1776 Census for Tiree which they had recently obtained. It is property of the Duke of Argyll, but I think the Tiree archive obtained it indirectly via the Argyll and Bute Archives (who obtained it from the Duke of Argyll Archives). This leads me to believe that the Mull Museum, or some other official body on Mull, should be able to obtain the 1776 Census for Mull. I have found the 1776 census for Tiree invaluable when used together with the 1779 census. A researcher can compare the entries and verify individuals and families, finding missing members, changes of surnames, etc. Also, in the 1776 census, like the 1779 census, those priceless maiden names are used for the women. I will put the details of the 1792 census in a separate message, since it requires quite a bit of explanation. Hope you are able to make some enquiries while you are there, Thanks, Louise ___________________________ Louise MacDougall Vancouver Island, BC Canada

Hi List & Libby, Here's another confused individual but not by your family. However, I'd suggest that the earlier dobs are more likely to be correct since it was common for people to either make out they were older or younger according to the circumstances and their perceptions of their employability at various ages. Younger people in e.g. the 1841 census often pushed their ages up because they could earn slightly more as an older person. However, with shipping and the Assisted Immigration it was advertised that Australia was looking for fit, healthy younger workers .. (note the comments on the state of health of those on the 'New Zealander') . Sometimes specific skills were mentioned and therefore many claimed to have those skills. They probably did but I have one instance of the occupation given on Baptisms as handloom weaver & on shipping records as mason & farmer. This is not to say that these people did not possesss those skills. The clearances did not help here as many who would previously have had a rural occupation had to resort to weaving when they were replaced by a couple of shepherds. Anne Maye

Ian Thanks for sharing that with us . I have plans to visit Mull early next year. Tricia

Hi All, Stay where you are are. Weather here not that good unless you are looking for rain. Last Sunday I went for a walk to Gualacholish which is near Killean burial ground. You might member that there was a message posted on the list last Sunday (UK) requesting photographs of the burial ground as part of a PhD thesis. I read this message about ten minutes before I went on the walk. What timing ! Have to say that I would have taken photographs anyway. Great walk and got to see sea eagles, seals, otters, deer and adders (UK's only poisonous snake). Also got good views over Eilean Amalaig on which a castle is indicated on current maps. A good while ago I had a request for confirmation that the castle exits. I can only report that I could not see any trace of the castle. I have photographs and would be happy to send them to whoever it was that made the request if they contact me off list. On Monday I had a gentle walk along Loch na Keil. Nothing much to report from here apart from a pair of golden eagles. Tuesday was the day that I subjected list member Jacqueline Archibald and a friend of hers to a day trip round the island. Not sure whether she has recovered from my driving but she left the island the next morning. I hope there is no connection between the two events. Like many visitors to the island Jacqueline was surprised how big it is and how long it takes to go right round. As a guide to those thinking of visiting the island a trip from Tobermory I take the road to Dervaig, then on to Calgary, Torloisk, Ulva Ferry, Gruline, Gribun, Kinloch, Bunessan and Fionnphort for Iona. Return run is via Glen More, Craignure and Salen. Allowing for the ferry across to Iona, the walk to and round the Abbey the whole trip takes around 8 or 9 hours. It was good to meet Jacqueline. Wednesday was a nothing day. Not much point in going out to get wet though and I have walking weatherproofs. It was that bad. Thursday took me down to the Maclean Chapel at Laggan. Unfortunately my camera batteries went on this trip so only got one photograph on the outside of the chapel. Can report that preservation work at Moy Castle is well under way. On Friday I went with the local historical society to the Scottish Crannog Centre (see www.crannog.org) where an old crannog dwelling has been reconstructed. As part of their exhibition they had a map of know crannog sites which did not show the best known Mull crannog in Glen More. This one is shown as such on current maps. On the way back we stopped at the Ben Curachan Hydro Power station at Loch Awe. Like many I have passed the station many times on the road to or from Oban but never been in. An interesting place to visit but be prepared to have facts and figures thrown at you all the time. Yesterday was then second day of the Mull Mod. It was good to see all the competitors in highland gear and hear the singing. Would have been better if the weather was better. When it's nice the choirs practice all along Main Street. Site and sounds to behold. I'm afraid to report that the Isle of Mull Gaelic Choir did not do that well. I'm hoping that the weather will improve as I would like to get to the old settlement of Inivea above Calgary Bay today. Take care, Ian -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE – Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE

Hi Anne Thank you for the comments and the analysis about ages and dates. I think that another complicating factor is that those who report deaths in Australia may have mixed & confused knowledge of the the names of family members in Scotland, especially those who either did not come from the same area or were very young when they left Scotland. I understand the desperation of those who sought to leave difficult circumstances. It looks like Archibald was over the HIES cut-off age of 60 when they left Oskamull for Portland, departing from Liverpool on the New Zealand. Given that they seem to have manipulated the facts on that account, one wonders what else they might have changed for one pragmatic reason or another. The birth dates that I have for Christy McMillan and Ann McMillan come from my searches of Scotlandspeople and the Mull website. So the variations in the birth dates on the death certificates is interesting, as there is no reason to vary those dates at that time. I will need to look at their actual death certificates to see who reported their death in Victoria - as that may provide me with a clue. The death certificate for Mary McPherson (nee McMillan) in Victoria, whose parents were Archibald and Flora McMillan (nee McIntyre) from Mull continues to be a puzzle. It states her birth date as 1801. If Archibald and Flora were married in 1816 - it is unlikely that this Mary is their daughter, but the coincidence in names is interesting. Mary appears as one of their children on both parents' death certificates and I have not been able to find her - so the puzzle continues. Thanks again, Anne for sending me the information about dates and ages. Regards Libby McMillan (Ongoing email: libbymcm@tpg.com.au) On 08/09/2007, at 3:34 PM, Brian Maye wrote: > Hi List & Libby, > > Here's another confused individual but not by your family. > > However, I'd suggest that the earlier dobs are more likely to be > correct since it was common for people to either make out they were > older or younger according to the circumstances and their > perceptions of their employability at various ages. > > Younger people in e.g. the 1841 census often pushed their ages up > because they could earn slightly more as an older person. > > However, with shipping and the Assisted Immigration it was > advertised that Australia was looking for fit, healthy younger > workers .. (note the comments on the state of health of those on > the 'New Zealander') . Sometimes specific skills were mentioned and > therefore many claimed to have those skills. They probably did but > I have one instance of the occupation given on Baptisms as handloom > weaver & on shipping records as mason & farmer. > > This is not to say that these people did not possesss those skills. > The clearances did not help here as many who would previously have > had a rural occupation had to resort to weaving when they were > replaced by a couple of shepherds. > > Anne Maye >

I wonder if anyone has any ideas about this person. This suggests that she is the Mary that we have not been able to find in the family of Archibald and Flora, but one wonders how this can be the case, given her birth date compared to all the others in the family. Mary McPherson - death certificate in Victoria, Australia., Born 1801 Mull. Parents - Archibald McMillan and Flora unknown. I have Archibald and Flora McMillan (nee McIntyre) with the following children. The children's names were all listed on both of their death certificates in Australia. The birthdates that I have found for the family have been found using various sources (Mull site, census records and Scotlandspeople) - these are listed next to their names. Next to those dates are the birth dates that have sent to me by Russell Stewart from WA (who is linked to this family by marriage and is also linked to the Campbells from Mull). These birth dates as are calculated from their death certificates that he has found in Victoria. I am beginning to feel very confused! Any assistance would be gratefully received. Mary (is she the one above?) Angus Born 1919-1902 (no other date for his birth) (travelled to Australia in 1841 if the info on his death certificate is accurate) Sarah 1822-1906 (stayed in Mull and married Neil MacLean - lived in Ballygowan) (Russell has recorded before 1801 - but as I have found her in the census etc - I think that this is not correct.) **Ann 1824-1890 (Russell's document says 1834) **Christy * 1826-1870 (Russell's document says 1835) **John * Born 1830 -1923 **Alexander 1835 - ? (we have lost track of him after he came to Australia) ** means that they travelled to Portland Victoria with their parents on the New Zealander in 1853 under the HIES scheme. Christy was with the family in the 1841 and 1851 census in Oskamull, but Ann was not. The further complexity is the ages of the parents. Flora McMillan (nee McIntyre) - died 1870 (Death certificate stated that she was - 85 which suggests that she was born in 1785. Archibald McMillan - died 1871 (Death certificate stated that he was - 95 which suggests that he was born in 1776) This must put in question the age at which it seems that Flora had children. If she was born in 1785 - to be still having children in 1835 is unlikely, even in 1830! I now feel like I am going around in circles and if this email is confusing me, I am sure that it will also be confusing listers too. However, any assistance would be gratefully received. The issue of Flora's age has been a concern to me for some time now, but bought into even more stark contrast with the potential for the dates of Ann and Christy being incorrect and their being born in the 1830s as well! Regards Libby McMillan (ongoing libbymcm@tpg.com.au)

Hi Ida You could be right about Barbara, which leaves Lachlan and Margaret without parents for the moment. The 1851 census for Alexander and Ann McPhail in Lephein also has a "Babby" McKinnon age 40 b Kilninian who is listed as a general servant. I assumed this was Barbara. I have the same children for Alex'r and Ann you have listed below.. Elaine Georgetown Ontario Looking for McKinnons in Ontario ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merle & Ida King" <m_iking@telusplanet.net> To: <sct-isleofmull@rootsweb.com> Cc: <elainer@stn.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] McPhail/McKinnon > Hi Elaine > > I haven't noticed your Barbara McKinnon in 1851. I'm wondering if > the Alexander McPhail with wife Ann (McKinnon). She maybe be the > sibling. As Hugh McKinnon & Flora McPherson have Barbara b/c Nov 2 > 1806 and Ann b/c Sep 29 1811 > > I have Alexander McPhail & Ann McKinnon having the following ch: > Donald Mar 12 1843 > Flora Jul 22 1847 > Hugh Jan 18 1850 > John Mar 1 1853 > > This is speculation : My thinking is Barbara may have the ch: of > John & Mary ? as I see a Lachlan McKinnon 1831 KLN 5012613, 33 > sorry nothing for Margaret. This is probably a submitted record :-( > later > Ida > >>Georgetown Ontario >>Looking for McKinnons in Ontario and Mull >> ------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>SCT-ISLEOFMULL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > >