Hello, Ida: I was interested in the McKinnon Family of Mariposa that you mentioned in your first marriage. I have never been able to learn the names of the parents of the Mary McKinnon, born about 1829 in Argylshire, who married my great-great-grandfather, Donald McCallum, in 1853. Because they were married in Eldon Township, I will send you the information (little as it is) concerning their marriage: From: The Marriage Registers of Upper Canada/Canada West, Volume 10, Colborne District, 1841-1857. Marriages by Rev'd John McMurchy, Eldon (p.38) Donald McCALLUM, of Brock, to Mary McKINNON, of Mariposa. 17 Mar. 1853 >From OPR data, I know that Donald was born in Tiree. Mary's place of birth was given as "Scotland" in census records, and as "Argylshire, Scotland" on their gravestone in the Scotch Cemetery, Brock Twp. Her year of birth is known only by calculation from her age in the census records and on her grave-stone. Any information that might direct me to Mary's McKinnon relatives would be greatly appreciated. My best regards. Garth ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of Merle & Ida King [[email protected]] Sent: December 8, 2011 6:21 PM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [SCT-ARL-TIREE] [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Marriages found in Mariposa Victoria Co., Ont that have Mull and Tiree as birthplaces Hi Louise Thanks for adding to my locating the 2 families in Victoria Co., Ont Marriages 1858-1869 vol 25 for which I'm sure there were others I missed but these 2 kinda jumped out at me (:-))). I was looking for people marrying in Eldon twp. I'm a firm believer in sharing information when one runs across it. Which may be pertinent to someone else's family or where they should dig a bit deeper. It's up to them to verify it if is theirs family (:-)))) Ida ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Ted, I have my McDougall binders with me to-day and have been doing some computer research. Have you considered that your Murdoch McDougall, the groom in Toronto, is the son of the John McLucais and Mary McKinnon who have a son Murdoch baptised in KandK on Mull on 9.7.1826? John and Mary are married 12.12.1815 in KandK. There are another John McLucais and Mary McKinnon married in KandK on 26.1.1818. There are four children I have found so far - of either couple!! Who knows. (A trip to the microfilm should give the farm/village, and thus possibly answer that question). They are Murdoch, Mary c 30.6.1816, Marrion c 4.11. 1819, Murdoch c 9.7.1826 all in the OPR under McLucais and Ann c 14.8.1830 under McDougal. This Ann, 36 in 1866, could be your other witness to the marriage. Since the KandK OPR starts only in 1804, knowing the relationship of the fathers born in the 1790's is a guessing game. But it is possible that my Neil born circa 1790 and your John, married 1815, are brothers. My records show Johns this side as: John McDugal/McLucais and Jane Thoburn of Pennyghael and Mariposa who have three kids in the OPR the first two baptized as McLucais and that last, a John, baptized as McDougal. No Murdoch. John and Jane are late arrivals. My Neil and Sarah arrive with children 1832-3. He is listed in the tax assessments for Mariposa in the early 1830's. Unfortunately Mariposa is not in the 1837 Home District Directory though Brock to the west is. It is possible that your Murdoch who says on marriage he is 32 (born 1834) but in the 1871 census and death is listed as 42 and 46 respectively (1829, 1828), lied about his age to his 20-year-old bride so he would not appear to be at his real age - 37. I've seen this before. My Neil's first son is a John suggesting that, as per Scottish naming custom, his father is a John. In summary, the way I see it so far is - some evidence, some speculation: 1. Your Murdoch is a late pioneer, coming over in the 1849-51 period with the clearing of The Ross by the Duke of Argyll 2. He came over as a bachelor and possibly alone - without his siblings and parents 3. My Neil is his uncle on this side. (There is no evidence of a John born in the 1790's on this side save John married to Jane Thoburn). 4. Murdoch bought land in Bruce County when it opened up and was surveyed in the early 1850's (Grey, Huron and Bruce Counties were settled 'late', and mainly by younger pioneer sons in the Home District who came in the 1820's and 1830's or by the later immigrants in the 1840's-50's). (Even as late as the 1870's the top of the Bruce Peninsula was still Indian Country. Tobermory at the top is named after the main town on Mull.) We will need a lot more cross-references to prove the above as fact. Places to look next are the land registry records on microfiche of the original settlers in Bruce, and the KandK baptisms for the village/farm names. If Neil is your Murdoch's uncle then Murdoch is a first cousin to my ggrandmother Christina born to Neil and Sarah on this side in 1833, and we are fourth cousins. My Neil and Sarah's first four children are in the OPR - born in Scotland - Mary 2.1.1816, John 13.4.1817, Murdoch 7.7.1827 and Marion 8.1.1830 all in Killunaig. Others are Donald, and Allan born in Scotland and Isabella and Christina born on this side. I know the lines down of Donald, Allan, Murdoch, Isabella and of course Christina, but am not familiar with, and done any research on children Mary, John and Marrion. All the best. Elizabeth

Hi Louise Thanks for adding to my locating the 2 families in Victoria Co., Ont Marriages 1858-1869 vol 25 for which I'm sure there were others I missed but these 2 kinda jumped out at me (:-))). I was looking for people marrying in Eldon twp. I'm a firm believer in sharing information when one runs across it. Which may be pertinent to someone else's family or where they should dig a bit deeper. It's up to them to verify it if is theirs family (:-)))) Ida

Ooops, looks I made a mistake in my previous post. Elizabeth McDonald pointed out that she has found "that most marriages in Ontario pre-1867 give just the civil district, that is, the township name, and not the village. So anywhere in the township is where the person lived." Or by extension, anywhere in the township is where the marriage took place, even if the persons did not live in that township. This made me realize that the McDougall-Clark marriage could not have said Manilla, Mariposa Township way back in 1852. I checked the image, and sure enough, the McDougall-Clark marriage only says the township. And I was even wrong about the township. They were married right in Brock where they lived, so presumably married at home. I was getting their marriage confused with close Brock relatives of theirs whose marriage did in fact take place across the border in Manilla, but that info did not come from the Ontario marriage records, it came from an obituary. Thanks for making me think about it further, Elizabeth. But I will redeem myself by offering you a theory about where your Flora McNaughton came from. Louise MacDougall ----- Original Message ----- From: Louise MacDougall <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011 11:36 pm Subject: Re: [SCT-ARL-TIREE] Marriages found in Mariposa Victoria Co., Ont that have Mull and Tiree as birthplaces To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] > > Hi Ida, > > > > This is a good point you have raised in general about Mariposa > > Township, Victoria County marriages for Tiree and Mull folk > who > > emigrated to Canada and settled in Ontario. > > > > What I would like to add is that the bride and groom may never > > have actually lived in Mariposa Township, despite it being the > > place of marriage for many of them. > > > > It took me a long time to figure this out, mainly thanks to > > Betty MacKinnon who first pointed it out to me by finding my > > Mary McDougall's marriage to my Donald Clark (yes I'm related > to > > both of them, it was a first cousin marriage). They were > > married 03 Feb 1852 in the town of Manilla, Mariposa Township, > > Victoria County where I would have never considered looking > > because they lived in a different jurisdiction: Brock > Township, > > (old) Ontario County. > > > > I then found out that, at the time, Manilla had a population > of > > over 700 and boasted of 5 (FIVE!) churches. Logically > > then, Manilla was likely where most of the Tiree folk, who > were > > concentrated around the 7th and 8th concessions of Brock > > township, attended church, since the Manilla churches would > have > > been the closest ones to them even though they were in the a > > different county. > > > > It was a confusing situation because these Tiree folk would be > > married in Mariposa Township,Victoria County where they never > > resided (except for a few who settled just over the border of > > the two townships, in Mariposa). But then they would be > > buried in the Scotch Cemetery in Brock Township where they > > actually lived. The reason of course was that, though > the > > Tiree folk had had their own cemetery in Brock on the 8th > > Concession since the 1830's, to my knowledge there was likely > > never a church associated with that cemetery. > > > > I don't think that the Mull folk in Brock Township were in the > > same predicament. I understand that the main Mull > > settlement in Brock township was around the Wick/McNeill > > cemetery which did have a church associated with it. > That > > is the more usual scenario i.e. a cemetery grows up around the > > church which the people attend and so they are married and > > buried as part of that same congregation. > > > > Of course, both Tiree and Mull folk living closer to the the > > town of Sunderland, Brock Township would have been married and > > buried there. > > > > I would say that a researcher is quite likely to find Tiree > folk > > from Brock Township being married in the neighbouring township > > and county of Mariposa, Victoria. And possibly also a > few > > Mull folk from Brock Township might have married across the > > border in Mariposa for a variety of reasons too. > > > > If someone else can add more to this description please do, > > > > Louise MacDougall > > Vancouver, BC > > ________________ > > webmaster: > > http://www.tireegathering.com

Yes, Garth, and as Elizabeth has pointed out the reverse is true for Sonya, another border town, where Mariposa residents will be found married in Brock Township because the church they attended was actually on the Brock side of the border. And if I am remembering correctly, you've pointed out to me a similar situation regarding newspapers i.e. needing to read the old local newspapers on both sides of the border, or even on all possible borders, since one never knows where the news will be reported, regardless of where the people lived for decades. Louise ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garth M Bray, Dr." <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011 2:37 pm Subject: Re: [SCT-ARL-TIREE] Marriages found in Mariposa Victoria Co., Ont that have Mull and Tiree as birthplaces To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Another fact that underscores Louise's point is that Manilla is > located on the border of Brock and Mariposa Townships, although > technically, it is located in Mariposa. > Garth > > ________________________________________ > From: [email protected] [sct-arl-tiree- > [email protected]] on behalf of Louise MacDougall > [[email protected]]Sent: December 7, 2011 2:17 PM > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [SCT-ARL-TIREE] Marriages found in Mariposa > Victoria Co., Ont that have Mull and Tiree as birthplaces > > Hi Ida, > > This is a good point you have raised in general about Mariposa > Township, Victoria County marriages for Tiree and Mull folk who > emigrated to Canada and settled in Ontario. > > What I would like to add is that the bride and groom may never > have actually lived in Mariposa Township, despite it being the > place of marriage for many of them. > > It took me a long time to figure this out, mainly thanks to > Betty MacKinnon who first pointed it out to me by finding my > Mary McDougall's marriage to my Donald Clark (yes I'm related to > both of them, it was a first cousin marriage). They were > married 03 Feb 1852 in the town of Manilla, Mariposa Township, > Victoria County where I would have never considered looking > because they lived in a different jurisdiction: Brock Township, > (old) Ontario County. > > I then found out that, at the time, Manilla had a population of > over 700 and boasted of 5 (FIVE!) churches. Logically > then, Manilla was likely where most of the Tiree folk, who were > concentrated around the 7th and 8th concessions of Brock > township, attended church, since the Manilla churches would have > been the closest ones to them even though they were in the a > different county. > > It was a confusing situation because these Tiree folk would be > married in Mariposa Township,Victoria County where they never > resided (except for a few who settled just over the border of > the two townships, in Mariposa). But then they would be > buried in the Scotch Cemetery in Brock Township where they > actually lived. The reason of course was that, though the > Tiree folk had had their own cemetery in Brock on the 8th > Concession since the 1830's, to my knowledge there was likely > never a church associated with that cemetery. > > I don't think that the Mull folk in Brock Township were in the > same predicament. I understand that the main Mull > settlement in Brock township was around the Wick/McNeill > cemetery which did have a church associated with it. That > is the more usual scenario i.e. a cemetery grows up around the > church which the people attend and so they are married and > buried as part of that same congregation. > > Of course, both Tiree and Mull folk living closer to the the > town of Sunderland, Brock Township would have been married and > buried there. > > I would say that a researcher is quite likely to find Tiree folk > from Brock Township being married in the neighbouring township > and county of Mariposa, Victoria. And possibly also a few > Mull folk from Brock Township might have married across the > border in Mariposa for a variety of reasons too. > > If someone else can add more to this description please do, > > Louise MacDougall > Vancouver, BC > ________________ > webmaster: > http://www.tireegathering.com >

Another fact that underscores Louise's point is that Manilla is located on the border of Brock and Mariposa Townships, although technically, it is located in Mariposa. Garth ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of Louise MacDougall [[email protected]] Sent: December 7, 2011 2:17 PM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SCT-ARL-TIREE] Marriages found in Mariposa Victoria Co., Ont that have Mull and Tiree as birthplaces Hi Ida, This is a good point you have raised in general about Mariposa Township, Victoria County marriages for Tiree and Mull folk who emigrated to Canada and settled in Ontario. What I would like to add is that the bride and groom may never have actually lived in Mariposa Township, despite it being the place of marriage for many of them. It took me a long time to figure this out, mainly thanks to Betty MacKinnon who first pointed it out to me by finding my Mary McDougall's marriage to my Donald Clark (yes I'm related to both of them, it was a first cousin marriage). They were married 03 Feb 1852 in the town of Manilla, Mariposa Township, Victoria County where I would have never considered looking because they lived in a different jurisdiction: Brock Township, (old) Ontario County. I then found out that, at the time, Manilla had a population of over 700 and boasted of 5 (FIVE!) churches. Logically then, Manilla was likely where most of the Tiree folk, who were concentrated around the 7th and 8th concessions of Brock township, attended church, since the Manilla churches would have been the closest ones to them even though they were in the a different county. It was a confusing situation because these Tiree folk would be married in Mariposa Township,Victoria County where they never resided (except for a few who settled just over the border of the two townships, in Mariposa). But then they would be buried in the Scotch Cemetery in Brock Township where they actually lived. The reason of course was that, though the Tiree folk had had their own cemetery in Brock on the 8th Concession since the 1830's, to my knowledge there was likely never a church associated with that cemetery. I don't think that the Mull folk in Brock Township were in the same predicament. I understand that the main Mull settlement in Brock township was around the Wick/McNeill cemetery which did have a church associated with it. That is the more usual scenario i.e. a cemetery grows up around the church which the people attend and so they are married and buried as part of that same congregation. Of course, both Tiree and Mull folk living closer to the the town of Sunderland, Brock Township would have been married and buried there. I would say that a researcher is quite likely to find Tiree folk from Brock Township being married in the neighbouring township and county of Mariposa, Victoria. And possibly also a few Mull folk from Brock Township might have married across the border in Mariposa for a variety of reasons too. If someone else can add more to this description please do, Louise MacDougall Vancouver, BC ________________ webmaster: http://www.tireegathering.com . ----- Original Message ----- From: Merle & Ida King <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:29 am Subject: [SCT-ARL-TIREE] Marriages found in Mariposa Victoria Co., Ont that have Mull and Tiree as birthplaces To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] > Hi All > > Sorry for the duplication on both list but it so the Archives > will get a copy of the posting > > Matheson Donald, 24 Mariposa, Islay Sct s/o Neil & Martha > (Morrison) married 1 Oct 1868 Catherine McKinnon, 24, Mariposa, > Tiree Sct, d/o John & Grace (Campbell) Co Marriage Register > Victoria Co., Ont. Marriages 1858-1868 vol 25 > > From the IGI in Tyree/Tiree John McKinnon & Grace Campbell marry > Mar 29 1837 Tyree. Have the following children Mary Jun 15-Jul > 13 1838, Donald Dec 16-22 1839, Catherine Feb 20 1842, Hector > Nov 7-Dec 14 1845, Archibald Nov 7-Dec 14 1845, another > Catherine May 12-30 1847, Flora May 12 1847, another Catherine > May 27-Jun 23 1850. Any additional information is always appreciated > > 　 > > McQuarrie John, 24 Mariposa, Scotland, s/o Donald & Margaret > (McFadden) married 26 Jan 1860 Catherine McDougall 20, Mariposa, > Scotland, d/o Archibald & Margaret Co Marriage Register Victoria > Co., Ont. Marriages 1858-1868 vol 25 These appear to be Donald > McQuarrie his wife Margaret McFadden/McFadyen who were in 1841 > at Tiregoil KLF who emigrated on the Barlow for Montreal Jun > 1849 I haven’t figured out who the McDougall family is yet. Any > additional information is always appreciated > > 　Ida > > 　 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ARL- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Louise, Sometimes one has to go to the original, primary source to get the location of the bride and groom. For instance, tertiary sources like Ancestry.com and the LDS site and even the RGO sites on the Internet, haven't created in their database fields all the information available in the original entry. For instance, in the OPR original entry there is often the occupation of the man and this is not on any secondary or tertiary source. Also sometimes the relationship of the witnesses is given, and of course, the village in the civil parish is listed on the original and the secondary (microfilmed) LDS source for the OPR but not the tertiary IGI, familysearch, Ancestry.com, etc. sites. I have found that most marriages in Ontario pre-1867 give just the civil district, that is, the township name, and not the village. So anywhere in the township is where the person lived. And, as you say Louise, the town line between Brock and Mariposa Townships on which the Presbyterian Church at Sonya sat (on the Brock side) meant many who list Mariposa as residence were married on the Brock side for registration by the minister with the township clerk. Ted, here is another possibility. I have found that sometimes when the bride is already pregnant, the couple leave the community and marry in Toronto, thus preferring the anonymity. I find that in most early marriages there are just men, the fathers, as witnesses. Before 1878 women had no legal rights, even to guardianship of their own children on the early death of a husband. When a women appears as a witness, eg your Anne, I always think it is a red flag, and the residency in Toronto possibly transitory. The fact that a witness is listed as my Neil McDougall of Mariposa is another red flag. The way to check is to cross-reference the birth date of the first child in the 1901 census with the marriage date of the parents. If this turns out to be the case, then the home community of the bride or groom is anyone's guess. All this is speculation but something I have come to see as a trend. All the best. Elizabeth. > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 11:17:57 -0800 > CC: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] [SCT-ARL-TIREE] Marriages found in Mariposa Victoria Co., Ont that have Mull and Tiree as birthplaces > > Hi Ida, > > This is a good point you have raised in general about Mariposa Township, Victoria County marriages for Tiree and Mull folk who emigrated to Canada and settled in Ontario. > > What I would like to add is that the bride and groom may never have actually lived in Mariposa Township, despite it being the place of marriage for many of them. > > It took me a long time to figure this out, mainly thanks to Betty MacKinnon who first pointed it out to me by finding my Mary McDougall's marriage to my Donald Clark (yes I'm related to both of them, it was a first cousin marriage). They were married 03 Feb 1852 in the town of Manilla, Mariposa Township, Victoria County where I would have never considered looking because they lived in a different jurisdiction: Brock Township, (old) Ontario County. > > I then found out that, at the time, Manilla had a population of over 700 and boasted of 5 (FIVE!) churches. Logically then, Manilla was likely where most of the Tiree folk, who were concentrated around the 7th and 8th concessions of Brock township, attended church, since the Manilla churches would have been the closest ones to them even though they were in the a different county. > > It was a confusing situation because these Tiree folk would be married in Mariposa Township,Victoria County where they never resided (except for a few who settled just over the border of the two townships, in Mariposa). But then they would be buried in the Scotch Cemetery in Brock Township where they actually lived. The reason of course was that, though the Tiree folk had had their own cemetery in Brock on the 8th Concession since the 1830's, to my knowledge there was likely never a church associated with that cemetery. > > I don't think that the Mull folk in Brock Township were in the same predicament. I understand that the main Mull settlement in Brock township was around the Wick/McNeill cemetery which did have a church associated with it. That is the more usual scenario i.e. a cemetery grows up around the church which the people attend and so they are married and buried as part of that same congregation. > > Of course, both Tiree and Mull folk living closer to the the town of Sunderland, Brock Township would have been married and buried there. > > I would say that a researcher is quite likely to find Tiree folk from Brock Township being married in the neighbouring township and county of Mariposa, Victoria. And possibly also a few Mull folk from Brock Township might have married across the border in Mariposa for a variety of reasons too. > > If someone else can add more to this description please do, > > Louise MacDougall > Vancouver, BC > ________________ > webmaster: > http://www.tireegathering.com > > . > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Merle & Ida King <[email protected]> > Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:29 am > Subject: [SCT-ARL-TIREE] Marriages found in Mariposa Victoria Co., Ont that have Mull and Tiree as birthplaces > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > > > Hi All > > > > Sorry for the duplication on both list but it so the Archives > > will get a copy of the posting > > > > Matheson Donald, 24 Mariposa, Islay Sct s/o Neil & Martha > > (Morrison) married 1 Oct 1868 Catherine McKinnon, 24, Mariposa, > > Tiree Sct, d/o John & Grace (Campbell) Co Marriage Register > > Victoria Co., Ont. Marriages 1858-1868 vol 25 > > > > From the IGI in Tyree/Tiree John McKinnon & Grace Campbell marry > > Mar 29 1837 Tyree. Have the following children Mary Jun 15-Jul > > 13 1838, Donald Dec 16-22 1839, Catherine Feb 20 1842, Hector > > Nov 7-Dec 14 1845, Archibald Nov 7-Dec 14 1845, another > > Catherine May 12-30 1847, Flora May 12 1847, another Catherine > > May 27-Jun 23 1850. Any additional information is always appreciated > > > > 　 > > > > McQuarrie John, 24 Mariposa, Scotland, s/o Donald & Margaret > > (McFadden) married 26 Jan 1860 Catherine McDougall 20, Mariposa, > > Scotland, d/o Archibald & Margaret Co Marriage Register Victoria > > Co., Ont. Marriages 1858-1868 vol 25 These appear to be Donald > > McQuarrie his wife Margaret McFadden/McFadyen who were in 1841 > > at Tiregoil KLF who emigrated on the Barlow for Montreal Jun > > 1849 I haven’t figured out who the McDougall family is yet. Any > > additional information is always appreciated > > > > 　Ida > > > > 　 > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ARL- > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I heartily agree with that philosophy. Perhaps its time to do another roll call. Names I have lost are Margaret CAMPBELL, daughter of David and Elizabeth INNES who I have through all the census, but lost her after 1891. I cant even find a death record for the same reasons; so many of the same name, despite having purchased abortively. Maybe if any one else is searching that name, I could have a certificate you need. Please let me know if you are. The other name I have is that of my paternal grandmother's father ROWAT. They were resident in the islands and married CAMPBELL. I have a ROWAT tree back to 1707 capable of being proven by documentation. I traced all of the CAMPBELL girls and one brother through all the census years whose family are buried at Pennygown without a headstone. Some it I can attribute thanks in the direction of Les but also to cousins in Australia. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merle & Ida King" <[email protected]> > Hi Ted > > Any information that's shared can only help with the big picture. As many of > our ancestors with the same surnames and given names emigrated elsewhere > it's hard to sort them all out. So thank you for your additions it helps. > Hopefully Elizabeth will know who the others belong to in 1881 Marisopsa, > Victoria Co., Ont. > > thanks again > Ida

From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] SCT-ISLEOFMULL Digest, Vol 6, Issue 290 Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 16:54:52 +0000 Dear Ted and Ida, I have been very busy with other matters the last week and have left you hanging in reference to my McDougalls of Mull and Mariposa. My apologies. I still am very busy, and will have to leave off detail on my folk for a little while longer. However, you can find the marriage and first children of my Neil McDougall/McLucais and Sarah/Marion Campbell in Broloss of Mull on the OPR in Killunaig and Torranachtrach. As you know the 1851 census for Mariposa is lost. This is always so unfortunate as by 1861 the pioneer children have moved on or are married and thus harder to find. In Mariposa you will find in the 1861 census sons Murdoch and Allan and families and right up to 1901. Sarah appears as a widow in a couple of the censi for Simcoe with daughter Isabella McDougall Carmichael. I am wondering whether your McKinney is a McKinnon, Ted. Do you have them in the U.S. back to 1729 (circa) as you said or is the date a typo? The reason I ask is that there is a Murdoch McKinnon in the 1779 census for The Ross if my memory serves me correctly. All this above is done from memory. I will bring my binders with detailed documentation with me within the week and e-mail you again. Sorry for the delay. All the best. Elizabeth McDonald. > Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 16:37:06 -0600 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] SCT-ISLEOFMULL Digest, Vol 6, Issue 290 > > > > On 12/4/2011 2:00 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 10:54:03 -0700 > > From: "Merle& Ida King"<[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] FW: McDougal-McKillop marriage > > To:<[email protected]> > > > > I'm wondering if perhaps you or Ted can add more information to these I > > tracked in the 1881 census with great diffuculity. My CD won't allow me to > > locate any McD*** (McDougall) in Mariposa, Victoria South Ont. so I went > > through family by family (:-)) > > > > I tried checking on Mullgenealogy but I couldn't get through at the moment. > > > > Any information is greatly appreciated. > > thanks > > Ida > \ > Ida, at least some of the MacDougalls of Mariposa, Victoria South, > Ontario, that you listed in Saturday's post are Elizabeth McDonald's > family, so I'm sure her data must be much better than mine. That said, > I'll tell you what I know. > > The first batch, beginning with Murdoch in Mariposa at age 52 in 1881 > and ending with Mary Ann age 9, are all one family, of which the parents > are Murdoch McDougall and Ann Ferguson, married 1 Feb 1859 in Brock Twp, > Ont. Murdoch was reported to have been born about 1825 in Argylshire, > Scotland. He died 28 May 1912 in Mariposa. It seems likely that this > Murdoch was related to the Murdoch in whom I am interested, or to his > wife Mary (who was also a McDougall), who lived way west of Mariposa, in > Enderslie, Bruce County, Ontario, in the same time period. However, I > have yet to discover how they were related. > > The remainder of the people listed in your post are unknown to me - I > have no data on them, nor do I have a clue as to how or whether they are > related to Murdoch and Ann, although it seems likely. Sorry not to have > more to offer. > > Best, Ted > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Ida, This is a good point you have raised in general about Mariposa Township, Victoria County marriages for Tiree and Mull folk who emigrated to Canada and settled in Ontario. What I would like to add is that the bride and groom may never have actually lived in Mariposa Township, despite it being the place of marriage for many of them. It took me a long time to figure this out, mainly thanks to Betty MacKinnon who first pointed it out to me by finding my Mary McDougall's marriage to my Donald Clark (yes I'm related to both of them, it was a first cousin marriage). They were married 03 Feb 1852 in the town of Manilla, Mariposa Township, Victoria County where I would have never considered looking because they lived in a different jurisdiction: Brock Township, (old) Ontario County. I then found out that, at the time, Manilla had a population of over 700 and boasted of 5 (FIVE!) churches. Logically then, Manilla was likely where most of the Tiree folk, who were concentrated around the 7th and 8th concessions of Brock township, attended church, since the Manilla churches would have been the closest ones to them even though they were in the a different county. It was a confusing situation because these Tiree folk would be married in Mariposa Township,Victoria County where they never resided (except for a few who settled just over the border of the two townships, in Mariposa). But then they would be buried in the Scotch Cemetery in Brock Township where they actually lived. The reason of course was that, though the Tiree folk had had their own cemetery in Brock on the 8th Concession since the 1830's, to my knowledge there was likely never a church associated with that cemetery. I don't think that the Mull folk in Brock Township were in the same predicament. I understand that the main Mull settlement in Brock township was around the Wick/McNeill cemetery which did have a church associated with it. That is the more usual scenario i.e. a cemetery grows up around the church which the people attend and so they are married and buried as part of that same congregation. Of course, both Tiree and Mull folk living closer to the the town of Sunderland, Brock Township would have been married and buried there. I would say that a researcher is quite likely to find Tiree folk from Brock Township being married in the neighbouring township and county of Mariposa, Victoria. And possibly also a few Mull folk from Brock Township might have married across the border in Mariposa for a variety of reasons too. If someone else can add more to this description please do, Louise MacDougall Vancouver, BC ________________ webmaster: http://www.tireegathering.com . ----- Original Message ----- From: Merle & Ida King <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:29 am Subject: [SCT-ARL-TIREE] Marriages found in Mariposa Victoria Co., Ont that have Mull and Tiree as birthplaces To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] > Hi All > > Sorry for the duplication on both list but it so the Archives > will get a copy of the posting > > Matheson Donald, 24 Mariposa, Islay Sct s/o Neil & Martha > (Morrison) married 1 Oct 1868 Catherine McKinnon, 24, Mariposa, > Tiree Sct, d/o John & Grace (Campbell) Co Marriage Register > Victoria Co., Ont. Marriages 1858-1868 vol 25 > > From the IGI in Tyree/Tiree John McKinnon & Grace Campbell marry > Mar 29 1837 Tyree. Have the following children Mary Jun 15-Jul > 13 1838, Donald Dec 16-22 1839, Catherine Feb 20 1842, Hector > Nov 7-Dec 14 1845, Archibald Nov 7-Dec 14 1845, another > Catherine May 12-30 1847, Flora May 12 1847, another Catherine > May 27-Jun 23 1850. Any additional information is always appreciated > > 　 > > McQuarrie John, 24 Mariposa, Scotland, s/o Donald & Margaret > (McFadden) married 26 Jan 1860 Catherine McDougall 20, Mariposa, > Scotland, d/o Archibald & Margaret Co Marriage Register Victoria > Co., Ont. Marriages 1858-1868 vol 25 These appear to be Donald > McQuarrie his wife Margaret McFadden/McFadyen who were in 1841 > at Tiregoil KLF who emigrated on the Barlow for Montreal Jun > 1849 I haven’t figured out who the McDougall family is yet. Any > additional information is always appreciated > > 　Ida > > 　 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ARL- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi All Sorry for the duplication on both list but it so the Archives will get a copy of the posting Matheson Donald, 24 Mariposa, Islay Sct s/o Neil & Martha (Morrison) married 1 Oct 1868 Catherine McKinnon, 24, Mariposa, Tiree Sct, d/o John & Grace (Campbell) Co Marriage Register Victoria Co., Ont. Marriages 1858-1868 vol 25 >From the IGI in Tyree/Tiree John McKinnon & Grace Campbell marry Mar 29 1837 Tyree. Have the following children Mary Jun 15-Jul 13 1838, Donald Dec 16-22 1839, Catherine Feb 20 1842, Hector Nov 7-Dec 14 1845, Archibald Nov 7-Dec 14 1845, another Catherine May 12-30 1847, Flora May 12 1847, another Catherine May 27-Jun 23 1850. Any additional information is always appreciated 　 McQuarrie John, 24 Mariposa, Scotland, s/o Donald & Margaret (McFadden) married 26 Jan 1860 Catherine McDougall 20, Mariposa, Scotland, d/o Archibald & Margaret Co Marriage Register Victoria Co., Ont. Marriages 1858-1868 vol 25 These appear to be Donald McQuarrie his wife Margaret McFadden/McFadyen who were in 1841 at Tiregoil KLF who emigrated on the Barlow for Montreal Jun 1849 I haven’t figured out who the McDougall family is yet. Any additional information is always appreciated 　Ida 　

Hi Ted Any information that's shared can only help with the big picture. As many of our ancestors with the same surnames and given names emigrated elsewhere it's hard to sort them all out. So thank you for your additions it helps. Hopefully Elizabeth will know who the others belong to in 1881 Marisopsa, Victoria Co., Ont. thanks again Ida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Mills" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] SCT-ISLEOFMULL Digest, Vol 6, Issue 290 > \ > Ida, at least some of the MacDougalls of Mariposa, Victoria South, > Ontario, that you listed in Saturday's post are Elizabeth McDonald's > family, so I'm sure her data must be much better than mine. That said, > I'll tell you what I know. > > The first batch, beginning with Murdoch in Mariposa at age 52 in 1881 > and ending with Mary Ann age 9, are all one family, of which the parents > are Murdoch McDougall and Ann Ferguson, married 1 Feb 1859 in Brock Twp, > Ont. Murdoch was reported to have been born about 1825 in Argylshire, > Scotland. He died 28 May 1912 in Mariposa. It seems likely that this > Murdoch was related to the Murdoch in whom I am interested, or to his > wife Mary (who was also a McDougall), who lived way west of Mariposa, in > Enderslie, Bruce County, Ontario, in the same time period. However, I > have yet to discover how they were related. > > The remainder of the people listed in your post are unknown to me - I > have no data on them, nor do I have a clue as to how or whether they are > related to Murdoch and Ann, although it seems likely. Sorry not to have > more to offer. > > Best, Ted

On 12/4/2011 2:00 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 10:54:03 -0700 > From: "Merle& Ida King"<[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] FW: McDougal-McKillop marriage > To:<[email protected]> > > I'm wondering if perhaps you or Ted can add more information to these I > tracked in the 1881 census with great diffuculity. My CD won't allow me to > locate any McD*** (McDougall) in Mariposa, Victoria South Ont. so I went > through family by family (:-)) > > I tried checking on Mullgenealogy but I couldn't get through at the moment. > > Any information is greatly appreciated. > thanks > Ida \ Ida, at least some of the MacDougalls of Mariposa, Victoria South, Ontario, that you listed in Saturday's post are Elizabeth McDonald's family, so I'm sure her data must be much better than mine. That said, I'll tell you what I know. The first batch, beginning with Murdoch in Mariposa at age 52 in 1881 and ending with Mary Ann age 9, are all one family, of which the parents are Murdoch McDougall and Ann Ferguson, married 1 Feb 1859 in Brock Twp, Ont. Murdoch was reported to have been born about 1825 in Argylshire, Scotland. He died 28 May 1912 in Mariposa. It seems likely that this Murdoch was related to the Murdoch in whom I am interested, or to his wife Mary (who was also a McDougall), who lived way west of Mariposa, in Enderslie, Bruce County, Ontario, in the same time period. However, I have yet to discover how they were related. The remainder of the people listed in your post are unknown to me - I have no data on them, nor do I have a clue as to how or whether they are related to Murdoch and Ann, although it seems likely. Sorry not to have more to offer. Best, Ted

Hi Elizabeth, & Ted I'm wondering if perhaps you or Ted can add more information to these I tracked in the 1881 census with great diffuculity. My CD won't allow me to locate any McD*** (McDougall) in Mariposa, Victoria South Ont. so I went through family by family (:-)) I tried checking on Mullgenealogy but I couldn't get through at the moment. Any information is greatly appreciated. thanks Ida 1881 Census Place: Mariposa, Victoria South, Ontario, Canada Source: FHL Film 1375878 NAC C-13242 Dist 129 SubDist C Div 2 Page 21 Family 115 Sex Marr Age Origin Birthplace Murdoch MCDOUGALL M M 52 Scottish Scotland Occ: Farmer Religion: C. Presbyterian Ann MCDOUGALL F M 34 Scottish O <Ontario> Religion: C. Presbyterian Neil MCDOUGALL M 21 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: Son Religion: C. Presbyterian Donald MCDOUGALL M 19 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: Son Religion: C. Presbyterian Alexander MCDOUGALL M 18 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: Son School Religion: C. Presbyterian Hugh MCDOUGALL M 11 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: School Religion: C. Presbyterian John Neil MCDOUGALL M 6 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: School Religion: C. Presbyterian Archibald MCDOUGALL M 2 Scottish O <Ontario> Religion: C. Presbyterian Catherine MCDOUGALL F 16 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: School Religion: C. Presbyterian Sarah MCDOUGALL F 14 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: School Religion: C. Presbyterian Mary Ann MCDOUGALL F 9 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: School Religion: C. Presbyterian 1881 Census Place: Mariposa, Victoria South, Ontario, Canada Source: FHL Film 1375878 NAC C-13242 Dist 129 SubDist C Div 1 Page 43 Family 187 Sex Marr Age Origin Birthplace John MCDOUGALL M W 58 Scottish Scotland Occ: Farmer Religion: C. Presbyterian John MCDOUGALL M 32 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: Farmer Religion: C. Presbyterian Dougald MCDOUGALL M 27 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: Farmer Religion: C. Presbyterian William MCDOUGALL M 25 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: Farmer Religion: C. Presbyterian Margaret MCDOUGALL F 23 Scottish O <Ontario> Religion: C. Presbyterian Alexr. H. MCDOUGALL M 21 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: Tailor Religion: C. Presbyterian Neill MCDOUGALL M 18 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: Farmer Religion: C. Presbyterian Thomas MORLEY M 13 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Presbyterian 1881 Census Place: Mariposa, Victoria South, Ontario, Canada Source: FHL Film 1375878 NAC C-13242 Dist 129 SubDist C Div 1 Page 40 Family 176 Sex Marr Age Origin Birthplace Allan MCDOUGALL M M 60 Scottish Scotland Occ: Farmer Religion: C. Presbyterian Mary MCDOUGALL F M 51 Scottish Scotland Religion: C. Presbyterian Sela MCDOUGALL F 28 Scottish O <Ontario> Religion: C. Presbyterian James MCDOUGALL M 26 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: Farmer Religion: C. Presbyterian Isabella MCDOUGALL F 24 Scottish O <Ontario> Religion: C. Presbyterian Maggie MCDOUGALL F 22 Scottish O <Ontario> Religion: C. Presbyterian Jane MCDOUGALL F 19 Scottish O <Ontario> Religion: C. Presbyterian Barbara MCDOUGALL F 16 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Presbyterian Alexr. MCDOUGALL M 14 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Presbyterian Betsey MCDOUGALL F 10 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Presbyterian Dougall MCDOUGALL M 8 Scottish O <Ontario> Occ: Going To School Religion: C. Presbyterian ----- Original Message ----- From: "elizabeth mcdonald" <[email protected]> To: "isle of mull roots" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 12:37 PM Subject: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] FW: McDougal-McKillop marriage > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] McDougal-McKillop marriage > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 19:25:45 +0000 > Dear Ted, > The Murdock McDougall/Ann McFerguson couple you mention in > paragraph seven below is my family - from Mull and settling in Mariposa > Township, Victoria County, Ontario. > > At the time I wrote before I said that Allan (as well as > Murdock) is a very uncommon name in Scotland (from my experience of 35 > years of doing genealogy) and I thought we were related. I still think > so. My Murdock had a brother Allan who farmed with him in Mariposa, while > their father Neil was alive. Later they had separate farms. > > Who witnesses your couple's's marriage in Toronto in > 1866? > > I don't have my McDougall binders here with me to-day, > but if you wish more information, please write. > > All the best. > > Elizabeth McDonald, > > Sarnia, Ontario. > >> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 11:17:05 -0600 >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] McDougal-McKillop marriage >> >> Finally for Murdoch, another man of the same name was born in Scotland >> about 1825 and came to the Mariposa, Victoria, Ontario, Canada area to >> live. He married Ann Ferguson in 1859 in Brock Twp, Ontario and died in >> 1907 in Mariposa, Victoria, Ontario. Quite a bit is known about this >> Murdoch-Ann family, but we doubt that these two Murdochs are related. >> However, we do not know for sure. >>

From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] McDougal-McKillop marriage Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 19:25:45 +0000 Dear Ted, You brushed me off two months ago when I sent a posting offering to help. But I'll try again, Ted. The Murdock McDougall/Ann McFerguson couple you mention in paragraph seven below is my family - from Mull and settling in Mariposa Township, Victoria County, Ontario. At the time I wrote before I said that Allan (as well as Murdock) is a very uncommon name in Scotland (from my experience of 35 years of doing genealogy) and I thought we were related. I still think so. My Murdock had a brother Allan who farmed with him in Mariposa, while their father Neil was alive. Later they had separate farms. Who witnesses your couple's's marriage in Toronto in 1866? I don't have my McDougall binders here with me to-day, but if you wish more information, please write. All the best. Elizabeth McDonald, Sarnia, Ontario. > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 11:17:05 -0600 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] McDougal-McKillop marriage > > To list members: This is a long post, for which, my apologies. It > concerns McDougall families with Scottish roots, living in Ontario, > Canada, in the 1800s. > > Hello, Ida, Tricia and the list: After a longer-than-expected hiatus, I > am back to searching for 18th-19th century McDougalls. I am grateful > for your suggestions and questions, and I will respond to some of them > in this email. To recap my purpose: a Malcolm MacDougall in the US > turns out to have yDNA markers nearly identical to one of my families, > surnamed McKinney/McKenney. Looking for the crossover between families, > we have traced our US McDougall to Murdoch McDougall and Mary McDougall, > married 1866 in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Beyond this Murdoch, the > trail grows cold. However, there are a few leads to Scottish origins, > and I am asking my new Scot friends for help in exploring them. > > Here is additional information regarding Murdoch and Mary. Their > marriage record reports that Murdoch McDougall, age 32, married Mary > McDougall, age 20, on 11 Sep 1866 in Toronto, which was Mary's home. > Both were recorded as born in Scotland. Her parents were Allan and Mary > McDougall; Murdoch's were John and Mary McDougall. Murdoch's > residence at the time was Elderslie Twp, Bruce County, Ontario. Murdoch > and Mary lived in Elderslie after marriage. > > In the 1871 census for Elderslie, Murdoch and Mary are recorded as 42 > and 23, with Mary recorded as born in Ontario, Murdoch in Scotland. > They have children Mary (4), Allen (3), and John (5/12), and also living > with them are John McDougal (30, a farmer) and Annie McDougal (24, a > servant). Later, there were two more girls born to the pair: Sarah and > Julia. Murdoch died at age 46, in 1874, and his widow Mary went on to > marry a man named Hazelton. Apparently there are no male-line survivors > of Murdoch and Mary other than our US MacDougall, whose paper trail back > to that marriage is solid. (Murdoch's and Mary's son Allen eventually > moved to Cleveland, Ohio, USA, and on to Miami, Florida in the mid > 1920s. Our MacDougall contact is their grandson.) > > Our interest is in tracing the Elderslie Murdoch McDougall's line back > into Scotland, primarily in an effort to locate the MacDougall/McKinney > crossover that links our families genetically. Thus the presence of > McKinney families in the vicinity of his parental family would also be > of interest. > > Our MacDougall says that his father told him that "old Murdoch was born > in Argylshire, Kidalton, and I think he told me it was the Isle of > Mull," but then our source suggests that this may not be right. Another > source, a passenger list for the ship Hope (from Glasgow) in our US > MacDougall's possession, suggests Argyle Civil Parish #541, Kildalton > Co, Islay, as the birthplace of a Murdoch McDougall who immigrated to > Pictou, Nova Scotia in 1848 (along with several other McDougalls) and > moved on to Ontario in 1852. This Murdoch was born about 1828 and was > single when he arrived in 1848. (However, his mother may have been > listed as Sarah, not Mary.) > > Finally for Murdoch, another man of the same name was born in Scotland > about 1825 and came to the Mariposa, Victoria, Ontario, Canada area to > live. He married Ann Ferguson in 1859 in Brock Twp, Ontario and died in > 1907 in Mariposa, Victoria, Ontario. Quite a bit is known about this > Murdoch-Ann family, but we doubt that these two Murdochs are related. > However, we do not know for sure. > > To complicate things, the 1861 census of Elderslie shows another > McDougall (or McDougald) living _next-door_ to Murdoch and Mary > McDougall (I mentioned them in an earlier email). This couple is named > Allan John McDougall (48, a farmer) and Flora McKillop McDougall (43). > Both were born in Scotland, as were their two eldest children Mary (18) > and Duncan (16). Their seven younger children range from 14 down to 4/12 > years old, in order: Ann, Neal, John, R. Allen, James, Flora Belle, and > E. Mary. This Allen John is probably the one who born in Tobermory, > Mull, in 1819 and died in 1920 in Portage La Prairie, Manitoba, Canada > (according to OneWorldTree), in spite of the age discrepancy, since the > children's names given are the same. We wonder how significant the > final "d" is in the McDougald name for Allen and Flora and their daughter. > > We found the official marriage record for Mary Jane McDougald of > Greenock, Bruce, Ontario (22) and Andrew Hamilton (27) of Brant Twp, wed > on 21 Oct 1874 in bride's father's house in Greenock. Mary Jane was > born on Isle of Mull, Scotland, and her parents were Allen McDougald and > Flora McKillop. These appear to be the family living next door to > Murdoch and Mary in Elderslie in 1861. We think that Allan and Murdoch > (or possibly Murdoch's wife Mary) may have been related, even though > Tobermory is a long way from Kildalton. The bride's family was Baptist, > however, whereas Murdoch's was reported as Church of Scotland in 1871 > and Presbyterian on his death certificate in 1874. (Incidentally, > Andrew's parents were James Hamilton and Christiane Ross, living in the > Twp of Brant, Ontario. Andrew was born in the Twp of Arthur.) > > We are looking along several lines and will be grateful for any help you > can offer. > (1) Since our likely McKinney immigrant was Daniel McKenney, married in > Maine 1732, we wonder whether there are court or church records of that > period that would reveal cases of bastardy or adoption or foundlings by > birth name and adoptive family name. > (2) We would like to identify the parents of Murdoch and Mary (both > surnamed McDougall) who were born in Scotland and married in Toronto, > possibly in records of the Church of Scotland in Argylshire, Kildalton, > Islay. > (3) We would also like to identify the parents of Allen John McDougall > (or McDougald) and Flora McKillop, who married in Scotland and had two > children there, possibly Tobermory, Mull and possibly Baptist. > (4) We would like to locate a McDougall male from the Kildalton area and > maybe one from the Tobermory area, preferably with paper trails back to > the early 1800s, to do yDNA testing with Family tree DNA, Inc. > > Thanks in advance for your help. > Ted Mills > Chateaugay, NY, USA > [email protected] > > On 11/6/2011 2:02 PM, Merle & Ida King wrote: > > Hi Ted > > > > Welcome to the list. Although Bruce Co., Ont is off my research path > > I'm always interested in Mull connections. > > > > I'd love to know more about the marriage details you have for Mary > > Jane McDougall & Andrew Hamilton. > > Etc. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To list members: This is a long post, for which, my apologies. It concerns McDougall families with Scottish roots, living in Ontario, Canada, in the 1800s. Hello, Ida, Tricia and the list: After a longer-than-expected hiatus, I am back to searching for 18th-19th century McDougalls. I am grateful for your suggestions and questions, and I will respond to some of them in this email. To recap my purpose: a Malcolm MacDougall in the US turns out to have yDNA markers nearly identical to one of my families, surnamed McKinney/McKenney. Looking for the crossover between families, we have traced our US McDougall to Murdoch McDougall and Mary McDougall, married 1866 in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Beyond this Murdoch, the trail grows cold. However, there are a few leads to Scottish origins, and I am asking my new Scot friends for help in exploring them. Here is additional information regarding Murdoch and Mary. Their marriage record reports that Murdoch McDougall, age 32, married Mary McDougall, age 20, on 11 Sep 1866 in Toronto, which was Mary's home. Both were recorded as born in Scotland. Her parents were Allan and Mary McDougall; Murdoch's were John and Mary McDougall. Murdoch's residence at the time was Elderslie Twp, Bruce County, Ontario. Murdoch and Mary lived in Elderslie after marriage. In the 1871 census for Elderslie, Murdoch and Mary are recorded as 42 and 23, with Mary recorded as born in Ontario, Murdoch in Scotland. They have children Mary (4), Allen (3), and John (5/12), and also living with them are John McDougal (30, a farmer) and Annie McDougal (24, a servant). Later, there were two more girls born to the pair: Sarah and Julia. Murdoch died at age 46, in 1874, and his widow Mary went on to marry a man named Hazelton. Apparently there are no male-line survivors of Murdoch and Mary other than our US MacDougall, whose paper trail back to that marriage is solid. (Murdoch's and Mary's son Allen eventually moved to Cleveland, Ohio, USA, and on to Miami, Florida in the mid 1920s. Our MacDougall contact is their grandson.) Our interest is in tracing the Elderslie Murdoch McDougall's line back into Scotland, primarily in an effort to locate the MacDougall/McKinney crossover that links our families genetically. Thus the presence of McKinney families in the vicinity of his parental family would also be of interest. Our MacDougall says that his father told him that "old Murdoch was born in Argylshire, Kidalton, and I think he told me it was the Isle of Mull," but then our source suggests that this may not be right. Another source, a passenger list for the ship Hope (from Glasgow) in our US MacDougall's possession, suggests Argyle Civil Parish #541, Kildalton Co, Islay, as the birthplace of a Murdoch McDougall who immigrated to Pictou, Nova Scotia in 1848 (along with several other McDougalls) and moved on to Ontario in 1852. This Murdoch was born about 1828 and was single when he arrived in 1848. (However, his mother may have been listed as Sarah, not Mary.) Finally for Murdoch, another man of the same name was born in Scotland about 1825 and came to the Mariposa, Victoria, Ontario, Canada area to live. He married Ann Ferguson in 1859 in Brock Twp, Ontario and died in 1907 in Mariposa, Victoria, Ontario. Quite a bit is known about this Murdoch-Ann family, but we doubt that these two Murdochs are related. However, we do not know for sure. To complicate things, the 1861 census of Elderslie shows another McDougall (or McDougald) living _next-door_ to Murdoch and Mary McDougall (I mentioned them in an earlier email). This couple is named Allan John McDougall (48, a farmer) and Flora McKillop McDougall (43). Both were born in Scotland, as were their two eldest children Mary (18) and Duncan (16). Their seven younger children range from 14 down to 4/12 years old, in order: Ann, Neal, John, R. Allen, James, Flora Belle, and E. Mary. This Allen John is probably the one who born in Tobermory, Mull, in 1819 and died in 1920 in Portage La Prairie, Manitoba, Canada (according to OneWorldTree), in spite of the age discrepancy, since the children's names given are the same. We wonder how significant the final "d" is in the McDougald name for Allen and Flora and their daughter. We found the official marriage record for Mary Jane McDougald of Greenock, Bruce, Ontario (22) and Andrew Hamilton (27) of Brant Twp, wed on 21 Oct 1874 in bride's father's house in Greenock. Mary Jane was born on Isle of Mull, Scotland, and her parents were Allen McDougald and Flora McKillop. These appear to be the family living next door to Murdoch and Mary in Elderslie in 1861. We think that Allan and Murdoch (or possibly Murdoch's wife Mary) may have been related, even though Tobermory is a long way from Kildalton. The bride's family was Baptist, however, whereas Murdoch's was reported as Church of Scotland in 1871 and Presbyterian on his death certificate in 1874. (Incidentally, Andrew's parents were James Hamilton and Christiane Ross, living in the Twp of Brant, Ontario. Andrew was born in the Twp of Arthur.) We are looking along several lines and will be grateful for any help you can offer. (1) Since our likely McKinney immigrant was Daniel McKenney, married in Maine 1732, we wonder whether there are court or church records of that period that would reveal cases of bastardy or adoption or foundlings by birth name and adoptive family name. (2) We would like to identify the parents of Murdoch and Mary (both surnamed McDougall) who were born in Scotland and married in Toronto, possibly in records of the Church of Scotland in Argylshire, Kildalton, Islay. (3) We would also like to identify the parents of Allen John McDougall (or McDougald) and Flora McKillop, who married in Scotland and had two children there, possibly Tobermory, Mull and possibly Baptist. (4) We would like to locate a McDougall male from the Kildalton area and maybe one from the Tobermory area, preferably with paper trails back to the early 1800s, to do yDNA testing with Family tree DNA, Inc. Thanks in advance for your help. Ted Mills Chateaugay, NY, USA [email protected] On 11/6/2011 2:02 PM, Merle & Ida King wrote: > Hi Ted > > Welcome to the list. Although Bruce Co., Ont is off my research path > I'm always interested in Mull connections. > > I'd love to know more about the marriage details you have for Mary > Jane McDougall & Andrew Hamilton. Etc.

Hi Ian, yes that is Staffa, keep up the good work PLEASE. Will be back when I get my STUFF sorted out, I am always soooo amazed about who lived on Mull in the mid 1800's Best wishes to you all , Sandra / Germany -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Ian Phillips Gesendet: Montag, 28. November 2011 16:59 An: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [SCT-ISLEOFMULL] Most Secret Island???? Seemed to have Mull and Staffa confused (going by the picture). Have informed Craignure Tourist Office. Ian On 28 November 2011 15:04, E Cunningham <[email protected]> wrote: > List: Guess what place Yahoo picked for its list of world's most secret > islands? Might want to alert the tourism office. > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-interests-40878721 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Seemed to have Mull and Staffa confused (going by the picture). Have informed Craignure Tourist Office. Ian On 28 November 2011 15:04, E Cunningham <[email protected]> wrote: > List: Guess what place Yahoo picked for its list of world's most secret > islands? Might want to alert the tourism office. > http://travel.yahoo.com/p-interests-40878721 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

List: Guess what place Yahoo picked for its list of world's most secret islands? Might want to alert the tourism office. http://travel.yahoo.com/p-interests-40878721

The 1861 Census recorded, for the first time, the number of windowed rooms (i.e. rooms with one or more windows) in each dwelling. Why this information was recorded is unclear because the Window Tax ended in Scotland more than 60 years before in 1798 (this from ScotandsPeople). However the data do give us an idea of the typical Tiree dwelling in 1861, which had 2 or 3 windowed rooms (79% of all dwellings) and accommodated 5-6 people. Dwellings with none, no recorded windows, or just one windowed room accounted for a further 16% of dwellings, and 5% had 4 or more windowed rooms. The illustrations of a Tiree thatched dwelling in "The Land Below the Waves: Tiree Past and Present", by Donneil Kennedy, and the excellent pamphlet of the Sandaig Museum by the Hebridean Trust, show a house with 3 windowed rooms typical of the 1850s and 1860s. ___________________________________________ Keith Dash Sydney, Australia Isle of Tiree Genealogy: www.tireegenealogy.com Isle of Coll Genealogy: www.collgenealogy.com