Oban is not close to Paisley. Oban is on the coast and one of the ports from which you can get a ferry to Islay. Paisley is very close to Glasgow and during the 19th century full of industrial sites and the tenements to hold the population needed. Some remained there and some looked further afield and so we have to emigration to 'the colonies'. Islay was just too small to give all the families there employment and the men were encouraged to look for work on the mainland. In dribs and drabs my whole family of McDougalls relocated to the mainland. My great grandfather William, his wife and first born son later emigrating to New Zealand. His brothers, Alexander and Finlay remained in Paisley close to their parents and sister Catherine Jamieson. They were there until the 1881 Census but after the deaths of their parents, appeared to move away. Whether they too went to'the colonies' I have not found out. Their occupations were engine keeper, maltsman, steel worker, laundry worker etc. William had worked on a farm and he was a ploughman so he did well when he came to NZ and I feel sorry for those who did not emigrate. Their lives would have been quite poor. Celia.

Many Islay people relocated to Paisley after the potato famine in 1847(yes it affected Islay too). Whole families relocated. Usually the husband went first and then the teenage boys and finally the younger members of the family and the mother. It was a chain emigration and often resulted in further emigration to other countries such as Canada, Australia and new Zealand. Celia.

The following is an excerpt from "Paisley A History" written by Sylvia Clark which I thought might be of interest to some of the people on the list who are looking for their ancestors who came from Paisley to New Zealand. "There was a standard routine for leaving Scotland [for New Zealand]. A party would assemble at Gilmour Street station and take the train to Glasgow. At the Broomielaw they would join emigrants from Glasgow on a steamer to Liverpool, England where they all crossed (on the ferry-boat built by Blackwood and Gordon of Paisley) to the Emigration Depot at Birkenhead for the checking of papers etc... Three Paisley men were among the survivors of the Manlius, Greenock to Port Philip in 1842 which arrived with 155 of the original 308 emigrants sick from typhus." Sorry folks, no names of emigrants listed. For anyone interested in seeing pictures of Paisley and learning a little of its history, I would recommend "Pictorial History of Paisley" compiled by David Rowand. ISBN No.0-907526-55-1 Alloway Publishing Price: Eight pounds. 50 Regards Janet, Ontario --------------------------------- Have a question? Yahoo! Canada Answers. Go to Yahoo! Canada Answers

In a message dated 15/04/2006 2:53:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, tlarson@usfamily.net writes: > I had a McFadyen family in Canada make reference that their immigrant > father was from Glasgow. I found the whole family on Islay for births > and for the 1841 and 1851 census. They were in Canada in 1861. I think > that things like that come from just reflecting a city that you will > recognize. > Ted Larson > > Sharon J. Huber wrote: > > >last summer 2005, my cousin Dugald McCallum, lives in Grey County, Ontario, > >asked if I had found any references to the McCallum family being from Oban? > >He said that as a child he remembers hearing the older generation talking > >about being from Oban. I have also run into this confusion of finding that family did not live where their descendants had been told they were "from". I think another explanation could be a confusion between where home was, and the port of embarkation. My wife's family said that when they emigrated to North America in 1776 they "came from Fort William". But they lived in GlenMoriston. Ken Harrison North Vancouver, Canada Only a genealogist regards a step backwards as PROGRESS ... HARRISON Yorkshire > Staffordshire > London (Highgate/Hampstead) POTCHIT Yorkshire FISHER London (Highgate/Hampstead) GREAVES Yorkshire > London GRIFFIN Staffordshire STANLEY Staffordshire SMELLIE Lanark > Orkney > Glasgow > Canada + Tasmania STIRRAT Ayrshire > Glasgow BAIN Caithness MILLER Caithness > Swaziland + S. Africa SPENCE Orkney FOTHERINGHAM Orkney TRAILL Orkney SELKRIG Lanark WICKETSHAW Lanark MORRISON Perthshire > Dumbarton > Glasgow > Australia (Vic) MORRISON Islay > Ontario BAIRD Renfrew HAM Australia (Vic) THOMPSON Suffolk > Yorkshire AGGUS Suffolk BRIGHTWELL Suffolk LAWSON Clackmannanshire > Ontario McNABB Islay > Ontario MURRAY Dumfries > Renfrew SINCLAIR Perthshire > Renfrew GILLESPIE Dumfries HENDERSON Dumfries TICKET (TAKET) Dumfries + Lanark CALDWELL Tyrone > Renfrew GRAHAM Tyrone > Ontario Genealogists never die ... they just lose their census. Unless specifically stated otherwise in this message, there is no intentional attachment on this e-mail transmission.

Hi Celia: I had a McFadyen family in Canada make reference that their immigrant father was from Glasgow. I found the whole family on Islay for births and for the 1841 and 1851 census. They were in Canada in 1861. I think that things like that come from just reflecting a city that you will recognize. Ted Larson Sharon J. Huber wrote: >Celiageary, > >Thank you for posting your message about the families from Islay relocating >to Paisley, Scotland. I just noted on my map of Scotland that Paisley is >near Glasgow. Does that make put it in the region of Oban? I ask because >last summer 2005, my cousin Dugald McCallum, lives in Grey County, Ontario, >asked if I had found any references to the McCallum family being from Oban? >He said that as a child he remembers hearing the older generation talking >about being from Oban. His grgrandparents are Isabella McLarty and Dugald >McCallum whose headstones say they we natives of Islay, Scotland. This past >March 2006, I went to my son's wedding in Oklahoma. To get from Washington >State to Oklahoma I had to drive through the state of Wyoming where Dugald >McCallum, third son of Dugald McCallum and Isabella McCallum lived in both >Cheyenne and Wheatland. I stopped at the library in Wheatland and got a copy >of Dugald's bio from a book entitled, "PROGRESSIVE MEN OF THE STATE OF >WYOMING" (1903). In his bio Dugald states that in 1844 his parents emigrated >from Paisley, Scotland to Canada, locating in Quebec. Dugald McCallum, son >of Dugald McCallum and Isabella McLarty, was the first child born in Canada >in November 1845, at St Andrews, Carillon, Quebec. He goes on to say that in >1847 the family relocated to Owen Sound, Ontario. > >I have a second question for The List. Has anyone else found that their >family members weren't living in the "Cities" that the family said they were >from? Dugald McCallum, third son of Dugald McCallum and Isabella McLarty is >the second of my relatives to tell people that he was from Owen Sound. > >John Fawcett McCallum, grandson of Dugald McCallum and Isabella McLarty told >his family, Manitoba branch, that he was from Owen Sound rather than 60 >miles south in Grey County. Too, he never told his family that he was the >oldest of the seven children born to Neil McCallum, eldest son of Dugald >McCallum and Isabella McLarty. Nor did he tell them that his father was the >eldest of the nine children born to Dugald McCallum and Isabella McLarty. >You can imagine the SHOCK these people received when I located them, >confirmed that they are the grandchildren of my grandmother's eldest brother >and began to share with them the information on the "REST OF THE FAMILY". >One member, Evelyn, didn't believe what I was saying until she took a look >at the copy of my grandmother's wedding photo and saw the resemblance she >bears to my grandmother. The copy of John Fawcett's, her grandfather, birth >certificate wasn't proof enough. > >Sorry this is so long. > >Sharon Huber , >Bellingham, Washington >----- Original Message ----- >From: "celiageary" <celia_geary@infogen.net.nz> >To: <SCT-ISLAY-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:10 AM >Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLAY] 2009 Heads up > > > > >>Many Islay people relocated to Paisley after the potato famine in 1847(yes >>it affected Islay too). Whole families relocated. Usually the husband went >>first and then the teenage boys and finally the younger members of the >>family and the mother. It was a chain emigration and often resulted in >>further emigration to other countries such as Canada, Australia and new >>Zealand. Celia. >> >> >>==== SCT-ISLAY Mailing List ==== >>Here are some links related to the Isle of Islay: >> >> >http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~steve/islay/links.htm > > > > >==== SCT-ISLAY Mailing List ==== >You can find older, archived messages from this mailing list by visiting: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~steve/islay/archive1.htm - and from April 1999, you can access archived messages at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCT-ISLAY > > > > >

Steffenie, Thank you for your reply. I have had contact with Sue Visser who is related to my McLarty line. While I was in Wheatland I was able to find a 2-page bio on her relative, another Islay connection, Janet McPhee/Mrs. Donald Clark, in a book entitled, "WOMEN OF WYOMING'. There is a website for the State of Wyoming that has links to the bios however, I will have to provide you with that information later as I do not remember how I accessed the site at the moment. The link takes you to the University of Wyoming Library search site. That is how I knew about the bio on Duglad McCallum. My concern about the connection to Oban is that my cousins in Grey County, Ontario believe that that is where this McCallum family originated. I have run out of vital stats on the Islay BMD's to be able to go back farther than the info my connections to my McLarty line have provided. I can account for the McCallum's in the 1841 census on Islay however that is it. The problem is that Dugald McCallum spouse of Isabella McLarty did not have his birth recorded in 1800 however, it appears that he belongs to the McCallum family that was on Islay at that time. So the question becomes, where did the family live before it came to Islay? My cousins in Ontario told me they had been to Oban several years ago and tried to research this family without success. I graciously asked if they had been to the Latona Cemetery where Dugald and Isabella (McLarty) McCallum are buried? Angela and her dad, Randy, said no. I suggested they check out the headstones because state these folks were natives of Islay, Scotland. Further, I suggested that Islay is the better starting point and working backwards from there would be what I would do. My visit to Grey and Bruce Counties, Ontario, last summer was very productive. I came away with obits, marriage and birth announcements that have supported the fact that my McCallum family is from Islay. They left Scotland in late 1844 to early 1845 for Canada. They did farm in Quebec for a year or two which supports the fact that their first child, Dugald, was born in St. Andrew, Carillon, Quebec. I found this location on the St Lawrence River, west of Montreal. The earliest land purchase in Grey County, Ontario is 1850. The 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881, census records, etc, locates the McCallum and McLarty families is Bentinck, Grey County, Ontario. I have been wondering if these folks referred to the well known communities and or areas (of that day) as a point of reference only rather than that was where they lived. Is it possible that they came to Grey County by ship as opposed to traveling overland? Owen Sound is a major sea port. Thanks, Sharon Huber ----- Original Message ----- From: <Steffokirk@aol.com> To: <SCT-ISLAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 6:23 AM Subject: [SCT-ISLAY] Not From Oban > Hi Sharon- > > This is interesting. My mother said that her mother, Lizzie Gilchrist > McDougall, b. Port Ellen 1855, always said that the family was from Oban. After > much mulling (!) it over, and finding absolutely zero indication that any > member of the family (Gilchrists or McDougalls) had ever lived in Oban, I > tentatively concluded that the reference may have been to the uber-ancestral > McDougalls. If Iremember correctly, the McDougalls who populated Islay held the > Oban area, te lands of Lorn in the 12th century. Total conjecture; Lizzie may > have been referring to the family of her mother, Ann Kerr, or some other part > of the family. > > BTW Sharon, Lizzie and her husband, Alexander McDougall b. Kilbride 1850, > lived in Wheatland and Cheyenne for many years, as did his brothers Colin and > John. This was in the 1870s and 1880s. Lizzie and Alexander relocated to > Vermont in the late 19th/early 20th century, John returned to Bruce County, > Ontario, where the rest of the family had emigrated, and Colin remained in > Wheatland. Sue Visser also has Wyoming connections. > > Steffenie Kirkpatrick > > > ==== SCT-ISLAY Mailing List ==== > Find out who has books and research data pertaining to Islay at the Virtual Library: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~steve/islay/library.htm >

Hi Sharon- This is interesting. My mother said that her mother, Lizzie Gilchrist McDougall, b. Port Ellen 1855, always said that the family was from Oban. After much mulling (!) it over, and finding absolutely zero indication that any member of the family (Gilchrists or McDougalls) had ever lived in Oban, I tentatively concluded that the reference may have been to the uber-ancestral McDougalls. If Iremember correctly, the McDougalls who populated Islay held the Oban area, te lands of Lorn in the 12th century. Total conjecture; Lizzie may have been referring to the family of her mother, Ann Kerr, or some other part of the family. BTW Sharon, Lizzie and her husband, Alexander McDougall b. Kilbride 1850, lived in Wheatland and Cheyenne for many years, as did his brothers Colin and John. This was in the 1870s and 1880s. Lizzie and Alexander relocated to Vermont in the late 19th/early 20th century, John returned to Bruce County, Ontario, where the rest of the family had emigrated, and Colin remained in Wheatland. Sue Visser also has Wyoming connections. Steffenie Kirkpatrick

Celiageary, Thank you for posting your message about the families from Islay relocating to Paisley, Scotland. I just noted on my map of Scotland that Paisley is near Glasgow. Does that make put it in the region of Oban? I ask because last summer 2005, my cousin Dugald McCallum, lives in Grey County, Ontario, asked if I had found any references to the McCallum family being from Oban? He said that as a child he remembers hearing the older generation talking about being from Oban. His grgrandparents are Isabella McLarty and Dugald McCallum whose headstones say they we natives of Islay, Scotland. This past March 2006, I went to my son's wedding in Oklahoma. To get from Washington State to Oklahoma I had to drive through the state of Wyoming where Dugald McCallum, third son of Dugald McCallum and Isabella McCallum lived in both Cheyenne and Wheatland. I stopped at the library in Wheatland and got a copy of Dugald's bio from a book entitled, "PROGRESSIVE MEN OF THE STATE OF WYOMING" (1903). In his bio Dugald states that in 1844 his parents emigrated from Paisley, Scotland to Canada, locating in Quebec. Dugald McCallum, son of Dugald McCallum and Isabella McLarty, was the first child born in Canada in November 1845, at St Andrews, Carillon, Quebec. He goes on to say that in 1847 the family relocated to Owen Sound, Ontario. I have a second question for The List. Has anyone else found that their family members weren't living in the "Cities" that the family said they were from? Dugald McCallum, third son of Dugald McCallum and Isabella McLarty is the second of my relatives to tell people that he was from Owen Sound. John Fawcett McCallum, grandson of Dugald McCallum and Isabella McLarty told his family, Manitoba branch, that he was from Owen Sound rather than 60 miles south in Grey County. Too, he never told his family that he was the oldest of the seven children born to Neil McCallum, eldest son of Dugald McCallum and Isabella McLarty. Nor did he tell them that his father was the eldest of the nine children born to Dugald McCallum and Isabella McLarty. You can imagine the SHOCK these people received when I located them, confirmed that they are the grandchildren of my grandmother's eldest brother and began to share with them the information on the "REST OF THE FAMILY". One member, Evelyn, didn't believe what I was saying until she took a look at the copy of my grandmother's wedding photo and saw the resemblance she bears to my grandmother. The copy of John Fawcett's, her grandfather, birth certificate wasn't proof enough. Sorry this is so long. Sharon Huber , Bellingham, Washington ----- Original Message ----- From: "celiageary" <celia_geary@infogen.net.nz> To: <SCT-ISLAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:10 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLAY] 2009 Heads up > Many Islay people relocated to Paisley after the potato famine in 1847(yes > it affected Islay too). Whole families relocated. Usually the husband went > first and then the teenage boys and finally the younger members of the > family and the mother. It was a chain emigration and often resulted in > further emigration to other countries such as Canada, Australia and new > Zealand. Celia. > > > ==== SCT-ISLAY Mailing List ==== > Here are some links related to the Isle of Islay: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~steve/islay/links.htm >

Hi Listers: If we're talking about coordinating events- I'd like to see the Glasgow/Renfrewshire area included in the discussion. Lots of Islay people (including my gr-grandfather's sister) went over there to work. And I guess people who lived there had holidays on Islay (and maybe the other islands?). I'm still trying to locate my gr-grandfather in 1861. I found a couple of John McNabb's the correct age- birth location is hard to read on the Scottish record. I finally tried Scotland's People and it was great fun to use. 2009 seems a long ways away. I imagine there won't be any actual details for a couple of years? I'm going to miss seeing everyone this summer. But I doubt if I could have come, even if something was planned. In sunny Springfield, Carolyn

According to Margaret Bennett in her book "Scottish Customs - From the Cradle to the Grave", handfasting was abolished in the Highlands by the Statues of Icolmkill in 1609 - this was in an effort to bring all Scotland under the control of the Scottish Parliament. It took a while however, and was fairly common all over Scotland until the eighteenth century. It was eventually wiped out by the pressure from the Church, and dated to an era when remote communities had only one or two visits a year from a Cleric. John Gillies ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard F. Sheil" <sheil@netsync.net> To: <SCT-ISLAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 1:26 PM Subject: [SCT-ISLAY] Scotland marriage > Greetings - > Does anyonw know how common was a "handfasating" marriage in the > early 19th century? > > -- > Any day above ground is a good day! > sheil@netsync.net > > > > ==== SCT-ISLAY Mailing List ==== > FOR QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS MAILING LIST - HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE - HOW TO CHANGE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS, ETC, ETC...: > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~steve/islay/maillist.htm > >

Hi Sue, Yes, I wonder too if there will be anything planned for Islay in 2009. I'm particularly interested in seeing Tiree, Mull and Islay do back-to-back Homecoming events in 2009. There are so many genealogy connections between these Islands. Not just the island hopping while our ancestors were in Scotland, but also the intermarriages that happened after emigration when folk from the various Islands settled near each other overseas. Louise MacDougall Vancouver Island, BC Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From "Sue Visser" <genealgal2@execulink.com> Date Tue, 11 Apr 2006 07:53:36 -0400 To SCT-ISLAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject 2009 Heads up -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark your calendars (*smile*) Twice today, I've received emails that included blurbs about 2009 designated as the "year of Scottish Homecoming". This is great notice for those of us without unlimited travel resources since it gives us a couple of years to save our pennies. The only thing I could find googling stated ....Scottish Executive's much heralded "Year of Scottish Homecoming" on the Bard's 250th anniversary (is) in 2009.... I wonder if there will be anything special planned on Islay? Cheerio Sue ______________________________

Handfasting Much has been made of the revival of the custom called handfasting, perhaps too much. In some places and times (Medieval Scotland, Northern England and perhaps Ireland) it seems to mean betrothal and in others genuine marriage. Many interpret it as a trial marriage or a step beyond betrothal but not nearly as permanent as marriage. It is often repeated that this handfasting is for a year and a day. Appealing as the "trial marriage" concept of handfasting is to many, the "revival" of the practice is a case of life imitating fiction. The literary source for the "year and a day" originally comes from Sir Walter Scott. The popular Outlander series by Diane Gabeldon is just one of more recent examples of ideas about handfasting entering the popular imagination through historical novels. A year and a day was the period that a couple must be married for a spouse to have claim to a share of inheritable property in case of the death of the other spouse. Misunderstanding of this fact combined with confusion about the celebration of betrothals in medieval times lead to the modern myth of the Celtic trial marriage. Never-the-less the mythical "trial marriage" handfasting is now pretty well established in some circles. Handfasting, according to the historical novel tradition would normally lead to regular permanent and valid marriage but if either parties chose to leave, the relationship was null. Even if children had been brought forth these children were considered lawful offspring of both parents. Neither would be prevented from seeking marriage to another after the handfasting was dissolved. Handfasting in a manner reminiscent of marriage by declaration is advocated by modern pagans and historical reenactment enthusiasts, sometimes as an off-the-books substitute for legal marriage, sometimes as a supplement to a legal wedding. Handfasting, it is claimed is a holdover from pre-Christian Celtic marriage laws. It should not be surprising that in this day and age when sexual partnerships often avoid the commitment of permanent monogamy, that a fantasy state of non-marriage should appear. If trial marriages existed in medieval times as it is claimed, they were just the sort of unregistered, off-the-books affairs that would be impossible to document historically. Thus the possibility that such arrangements once may have been is used to justify arrangements that are made to order for lovers wishing to live together in a partnership recognized by like-minded friends but without the blessing of church or state. Handfasting can be part of the religious or civil wedding ceremony. The hands of the bride and groom are joined as in the familiar scene as the person officiating the ceremony asks "Who gives this woman to be wed?" and then takes her hand from her father or whoever is giving away the bride and clasps it to the hand of the groom. In olden days the priest or minister would wrap the clasped hands in the end of his stole to symbolize the trinity of marriage; man and woman joined by God. With God’s grace in time another trinity would be manifest; mother, father and child. The Celts have always been good at seeing things in threes. This symbolic binding together in marriage evolved into a the practice of wrapping the clasped hands with a cord or an embroidered cloth, usually made especially for that purpose. Handfasting in this manner is a legitimate part of a legally valid marriage, rather than a substitute for it. More articles about Handfasting It should be cautioned that while brides and grooms can be very creative with their vows, clothes, locations, music and religious content of their weddings, laws of the state and church still apply. It is a crime for clergy to knowingly perform marriages that would not be legally binding or to perform marriages and not record them properly with the state. If you ask a real ordained minister, who is licensed by the state to perform marriages, to bless a handfasting that you do not want to record as a legal wedding you are on very thin ice unless you make it very clear that it is a betrothal. Religious sects have rules about what they allow as well. Maverick pastors can be de-frocked for going against church teachings about marriage. Bigamy is a crime and so is marrying your brother or your mother or your dog or your hamster. There are two reasons when it is OK and even advisable to have a second informal wedding ceremony that would not be registered with the state. When a couple joins or returns to active fellowship in religious faith after having been married outside that church they may be wed again according to the form and tradition of the sect they wish to have bless their marriage. This commonly happens when a couple wants their existing marriage to be recognized by the Roman Catholic Church, but they may desire to reaffirm their vows in a religious ceremony in any faith, either because they are just now converting to it or for some other reason they did not have a religious ceremony at the time they first wed. This wedding is usually done privately. It need not be recorded with the state since as far as the state is concerned the marriage already exists. It is increasingly popular to renew wedding vows, usually on an anniversary. This can be a very touching ceremony and again there is no need to record the event with the state or comply with any of the legal requirements of a regular wedding as the marriage is already recorded. source: http://www.celtarts.com/WEDDING/traditions.htm ===================================== From: "John Gillies" <john.gillies@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLAY] Scotland marriage Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 00:02:33 +1000 References: <443DC4FA.2080901@netsync.net> According to Margaret Bennett in her book "Scottish Customs - From the Cradle to the Grave", handfasting was abolished in the Highlands by the Statues of Icolmkill in 1609 - this was in an effort to bring all Scotland under the control of the Scottish Parliament. It took a while however, and was fairly common all over Scotland until the eighteenth century. It was eventually wiped out by the pressure from the Church, and dated to an era when remote communities had only one or two visits a year from a Cleric. John Gillies ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard F. Sheil" <sheil@netsync.net> To: <SCT-ISLAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 1:26 PM Subject: [SCT-ISLAY] Scotland marriage >Greetings - >Does anyonw know how common was a "handfasating" marriage in the >early 19th century? > >-- >Any day above ground is a good day! >sheil@netsync.net > > > >==== SCT-ISLAY Mailing List ==== >FOR QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS MAILING LIST - HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE - HOW TO CHANGE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS, ETC, ETC...: >http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~steve/islay/maillist.htm >

Hi List: I ordered the film from LDS for the 1779 Argyll census and was sorely disappointed. Islay is not included in that census. I got suspicious when the Surname Gilchrist was not in the record and went on to find that no Islay place names were there. Sorry!! Ted Larson

Hi Cheri: When I transposed the 1841 census for Portnhaven I took the 11 year old daughter of Duncan Brown and Mary (Turner) to be Margaret. If I were to do it over I think I would call her Mary. If you wish I can scan the page and send you a .JPG file of it. The writing of some census takers left a lot to be desired and Marg and Mary really look alike. The birth records back up the choice of Mary as they had a Mary baptized in 1828. I did not do the transcription for the births so cannot go back and look at originals. Ted Larson Cheri Westra wrote: >I'm trying to find the family of my gg grandmother Margaret Brown born on >the Isle of Scotland August 1829. I have found her 1858 Toronto >Presbyterian marriage record which shows her residence as Egremont. She >married a Monkman from York and they settled on a farm in Whitchurch (Yonge >& Bloomington Sideroad). The marriage record lists her father as Duncan and >no name is given for her mother (maybe dead by this time?). I have located >a Duncan Brown on a Directory for Grey (1865). It may be her father if >still alive or another relative. > >A 1841 Census for Portnahaven has a Duncan Brown + Mary Turner (Married 1824 >in Kilchoman Argyll). >Margaret age 11 >Donald 13 >Marion 9 (married on Islay in 1857) >Helen 7 >John 5 >Archibald 3 > >It is possible that this is Margaret's family but I saw the same record on a >different site and the age 11 female was listed as Mary not Margaret. This >Margaret or Mary was born in March not August according to birth records. >Does anyone know if this family came to Canada? > >Another possibility is the following birth record found in the Kilmeny >Baptisms. Margaret Brown Aug. 24 1829. Mother: Margaret McVoran. Father:NL >Brown. Would NL mean Not Legible? This seems to be a closer match. I >can't find anymore information on this family and no records for other >children. Maybe Margaret McVoran died and Duncan remarried or maybe they >left Islay shortly after Margaret's birth. Baptism record from 1829 for >this Margaret shows they are from Baliharvie. The 1828 tenants list has a >Duncan Brown at Balliharry - are they the same place? There is no Baliharvie >on the list at this time. When I go back to 1811 there is a Angus Brown at >Ballihavie and no Balliharry on the list. > >Any info concerning what Browns came to Egremont or Grey County would be >appreciated. >Cheri > > >==== SCT-ISLAY Mailing List ==== >Click on this link for some wonderful stories, and general information about Islay: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~steve/islay/misc.htm > > > > >

Correction - There weren't any Margaret Browns in Egremont histories - there were the 2 Mary Brown's families I mentioned. Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Visser" <genealgal2@execulink.com> To: <SCT-ISLAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLAY] Hi Cheri There are 2 volumes of "While We Still Remember", a history plus an update of Egremont Township, Grey Co, Ontario. According to the family histories included, there were 3 Brown families in Egremont - two had Marys. One Mary Brown family emigrated from Ireland and the other from England. There isn't a Duncan Brown listed with any of these families. I checked the Grey Co 1851 Census index. In 1851 your Margaret would be abt 22 yrs old....the only Margaret Browns listed, born SCT, are ages 33, 40, 35, 14....and only the 35 yr old Margaret is living in Egremont. Sorry that help isn't forthcoming from this end. Cheerio Sue Visser Ontario ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cheri Westra" <cheriwestra@sympatico.ca> To: <SCT-ISLAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:40 AM Subject: [SCT-ISLAY] I'm trying to find the family of my gg grandmother Margaret Brown born on the Isle of Scotland August 1829. I have found her 1858 Toronto Presbyterian marriage record which shows her residence as Egremont. She married a Monkman from York and they settled on a farm in Whitchurch (Yonge & Bloomington Sideroad). The marriage record lists her father as Duncan and no name is given for her mother (maybe dead by this time?). I have located a Duncan Brown on a Directory for Grey (1865). It may be her father if still alive or another relative. A 1841 Census for Portnahaven has a Duncan Brown + Mary Turner (Married 1824 in Kilchoman Argyll). Margaret age 11 Donald 13 Marion 9 (married on Islay in 1857) Helen 7 John 5 Archibald 3 It is possible that this is Margaret's family but I saw the same record on a different site and the age 11 female was listed as Mary not Margaret. This Margaret or Mary was born in March not August according to birth records. Does anyone know if this family came to Canada? Another possibility is the following birth record found in the Kilmeny Baptisms. Margaret Brown Aug. 24 1829. Mother: Margaret McVoran. Father:NL Brown. Would NL mean Not Legible? This seems to be a closer match. I can't find anymore information on this family and no records for other children. Maybe Margaret McVoran died and Duncan remarried or maybe they left Islay shortly after Margaret's birth. Baptism record from 1829 for this Margaret shows they are from Baliharvie. The 1828 tenants list has a Duncan Brown at Balliharry - are they the same place? There is no Baliharvie on the list at this time. When I go back to 1811 there is a Angus Brown at Ballihavie and no Balliharry on the list. Any info concerning what Browns came to Egremont or Grey County would be appreciated. Cheri ==== SCT-ISLAY Mailing List ==== Click on this link for some wonderful stories, and general information about Islay: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~steve/islay/misc.htm ==== SCT-ISLAY Mailing List ==== Click on this link for some wonderful stories, and general information about Islay: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~steve/islay/misc.htm

Hi Cheri There are 2 volumes of "While We Still Remember", a history plus an update of Egremont Township, Grey Co, Ontario. According to the family histories included, there were 3 Brown families in Egremont - two had Marys. One Mary Brown family emigrated from Ireland and the other from England. There isn't a Duncan Brown listed with any of these families. I checked the Grey Co 1851 Census index. In 1851 your Margaret would be abt 22 yrs old....the only Margaret Browns listed, born SCT, are ages 33, 40, 35, 14....and only the 35 yr old Margaret is living in Egremont. Sorry that help isn't forthcoming from this end. Cheerio Sue Visser Ontario ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cheri Westra" <cheriwestra@sympatico.ca> To: <SCT-ISLAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:40 AM Subject: [SCT-ISLAY] I'm trying to find the family of my gg grandmother Margaret Brown born on the Isle of Scotland August 1829. I have found her 1858 Toronto Presbyterian marriage record which shows her residence as Egremont. She married a Monkman from York and they settled on a farm in Whitchurch (Yonge & Bloomington Sideroad). The marriage record lists her father as Duncan and no name is given for her mother (maybe dead by this time?). I have located a Duncan Brown on a Directory for Grey (1865). It may be her father if still alive or another relative. A 1841 Census for Portnahaven has a Duncan Brown + Mary Turner (Married 1824 in Kilchoman Argyll). Margaret age 11 Donald 13 Marion 9 (married on Islay in 1857) Helen 7 John 5 Archibald 3 It is possible that this is Margaret's family but I saw the same record on a different site and the age 11 female was listed as Mary not Margaret. This Margaret or Mary was born in March not August according to birth records. Does anyone know if this family came to Canada? Another possibility is the following birth record found in the Kilmeny Baptisms. Margaret Brown Aug. 24 1829. Mother: Margaret McVoran. Father:NL Brown. Would NL mean Not Legible? This seems to be a closer match. I can't find anymore information on this family and no records for other children. Maybe Margaret McVoran died and Duncan remarried or maybe they left Islay shortly after Margaret's birth. Baptism record from 1829 for this Margaret shows they are from Baliharvie. The 1828 tenants list has a Duncan Brown at Balliharry - are they the same place? There is no Baliharvie on the list at this time. When I go back to 1811 there is a Angus Brown at Ballihavie and no Balliharry on the list. Any info concerning what Browns came to Egremont or Grey County would be appreciated. Cheri ==== SCT-ISLAY Mailing List ==== Click on this link for some wonderful stories, and general information about Islay: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~steve/islay/misc.htm

I'm trying to find the family of my gg grandmother Margaret Brown born on the Isle of Scotland August 1829. I have found her 1858 Toronto Presbyterian marriage record which shows her residence as Egremont. She married a Monkman from York and they settled on a farm in Whitchurch (Yonge & Bloomington Sideroad). The marriage record lists her father as Duncan and no name is given for her mother (maybe dead by this time?). I have located a Duncan Brown on a Directory for Grey (1865). It may be her father if still alive or another relative. A 1841 Census for Portnahaven has a Duncan Brown + Mary Turner (Married 1824 in Kilchoman Argyll). Margaret age 11 Donald 13 Marion 9 (married on Islay in 1857) Helen 7 John 5 Archibald 3 It is possible that this is Margaret's family but I saw the same record on a different site and the age 11 female was listed as Mary not Margaret. This Margaret or Mary was born in March not August according to birth records. Does anyone know if this family came to Canada? Another possibility is the following birth record found in the Kilmeny Baptisms. Margaret Brown Aug. 24 1829. Mother: Margaret McVoran. Father:NL Brown. Would NL mean Not Legible? This seems to be a closer match. I can't find anymore information on this family and no records for other children. Maybe Margaret McVoran died and Duncan remarried or maybe they left Islay shortly after Margaret's birth. Baptism record from 1829 for this Margaret shows they are from Baliharvie. The 1828 tenants list has a Duncan Brown at Balliharry - are they the same place? There is no Baliharvie on the list at this time. When I go back to 1811 there is a Angus Brown at Ballihavie and no Balliharry on the list. Any info concerning what Browns came to Egremont or Grey County would be appreciated. Cheri

Greetings - Does anyonw know how common was a "handfasating" marriage in the early 19th century? -- Any day above ground is a good day! sheil@netsync.net

Thanks to all who replied to my query, I guess I should have known the definition, it only makes since. Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Reg Hespe G <bigjulie2@optushome.com.au> Date: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:38 am Subject: Re: [SCT-ISLAY] word definition To: SCT-ISLAY-L@rootsweb.com > Hi Dee > > 1, nee. (meaning literally `born') used to indicate the maiden or > family > name of a married woman; "Hillary Clinton nee Rodham" ... > www.wordreference.com/definition/nee - > > Regards > Reg Hespe > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <dkieffaber@kc.rr.com> > To: <SCT-ISLAY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 11:56 PM > Subject: [SCT-ISLAY] word definition > > > > Could someone give me the definition of the word "nee"? I have > seen it > > after a name such as Weddell(nee Blair). I am curious as to its > meaning.> Thank you, > > Dee Kieffaber > > > > > > ==== SCT-ISLAY Mailing List ==== > > To visit the website associated with this project, visit: > > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~steve/islay/data.htm > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date: > 10/04/2006> > > > > > ==== SCT-ISLAY Mailing List ==== > You can find older, archived messages from this mailing list by > visiting: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~steve/islay/archive1.htm - > and from April 1999, you can access archived messages at > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCT-ISLAY >

Hi Dee, "Nee" (it properly should have an "acute" accent) is simply the female form of the French word for "born". Thus "Freda Bloggs nee Smith" means Freda was born Freda Smith, before changing her surname on marriage to Joe Bloggs. ATB Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: <dkieffaber@kc.rr.com> To: <SCT-ISLAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:56 PM Subject: word definition > Could someone give me the definition of the word "nee"? I have seen it > after a name such as Weddell(nee Blair). I am curious as to its meaning. > Thank you, > Dee Kieffaber > > ______________________________