In a message dated 07/09/00 4:11:59 PM Central Daylight Time, clarimer@prodigy.net writes: << Somewhere along the line I heard that the expression "Pretender" in relation to Bonnie Prince Charlie actually derives from the French word "prendre," which means "to take." So that it was really BP Charlie, The Taker, and not BP Charlie, The Illusionist. Did you hear about the four Stewarts ... (oops, wrong list). Charlie Fraser Larimer clarimer@prodigy.net >> Yes, you are quite correct and if the pretension were translated to the the French, Je Prendre I take it would mean basically the same. Remember the diplomatic language of the world is French. A prince du jur(e)is the right prince, or the prince with the right to the throne on the pretense of the historical blood line. so B.P.C. or his father was, Le Roy du jur(e) The rightful king, pour prondrez le compaing to take the country or the crown. If one were also to read any books on military strategy at the time of Culloden other than those the establish English education system has shoved down our throats, one would realize that B.P.C. and General Mar did exactly the right thing, and were stuck at Culloden due to circumstance and not by plan. Most books until quite recently also leave out the bit about the Highlanders (Jacobites) reforming to attack again, or that no one in the Highlands would turn over our prince and betray him for a reward at the time valued in excess of a million dollars today. You will also note that very few books if any even relate to the fact that Mr. Washington, Jefferson and Franklin with the blessing of the Continental congress sent a delegation of 3 men to ask B.P.C. to become king of America, which BPC turned down due to not having an Heir to the throne and thus upon his death it would return to wee German Geordie. How does all this relate to our ancestors and this list? It was the English genocide that caused so many to be butchered and sent off to the new world, as slaves, prisoners and indentured labour. Then came the clearances and another great excuse. It seems throughout history some little jerk in the south has always known what was best for us, and it was only recently that the verses calling for genocide of the Highlands was removed from the national anthem "God Save The Queen." Now is there any wounder I get a little perturbed when someone begins to tell me about MY culture and that of every child and great great grand child of an exile. It is my wish that everyone will get to know the Highlands and OUR culture and our culture includes the thousands who were burned out and chained and sent away. Do we all hang out in bars, are we all rowdy, no and that can be seen by the original letter stating they found the joke distasteful, written I, presume by the politeness and form by a Highlander in Hong Kong. That letter I respect and shall honour by not writing another joke that he may find distasteful. The point is we are not a quiet and quaint little group of kilt wearing Brigadonians, we are a vital alive changing people. Your ancestors were not mealy mouthed they were strong, especially the women who took the brunt of our history from the church stripping them naked and leaving them tied on the beach for the tide and the crabs to take them, to walking miles over all sorts of terrane in all sorts of climates where they built homes and raised their children, and damn near every one of those children is now out seeking their roots. My God surely these fine and honourable people who have fought for their freedom, and brought freedom to the greatest nations on this earth deserve more than a sterile autopsy and be relegated to death certificates and diaries. Surely they deserve to have a life in memory and song. Without them America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc., would be little more than little England's and not the great democracies they are today. It was not the English who made these countries great, and by that I do not mean the poor people of England who toiled along with us in foreign fields, but the Crown and its thieving cronies. They brought the Declaration of Arbroath, (April 16th 1320) which was used in almost every constitution in the world, They brought the National Covenant, (Edinburgh 1638), the Declaration For Liberty And Conscience (April 04 1687) But more than this they brought a spirit and a demand for equality and a will to fight for it. Do you know Scotland has the oldest written constitution in the world, we brought in minimal wage laws, equality under the law, freedom of religion and these people your ancestors took it to the world for every man woman and child to enjoy and we want to relegate these people's blood sweat and tears to a kilted joke, a death certificate, I don't don't bloody think so. So I have again proven what a "wind bag" I am, and shall continue to be so long as there is breath in my body to stand up and defend and praise these heroes and heroines. Then again so was the wee lassie who stood up in a crowded Glasgow football satdium and sang Flower of Scotland until the walls echoed with a thousand and more voices. Next Saturday I shall be in a parade in a small town in Central Texas along with 2 self taught pipers and will distribute all sorts of free information and maps and such so other children of the exiles will begin their quest. At the junior colege this year a coarse on Scottish studies was started and a pipe band began by children of exiles who did not even know their names were Scottish a few months ago. Am I, as I was just called a wind bag? Your dam right and the subject is the Scottish Highlands and everyone is welcome to talk and hear and learn. Scots whae hae wee Wallace bled. Well I'll away and drape masel in tartan and sing Flower Of Scotland. Tell me aren't you glad you asked. Poor man that are getting this blast from a simple question. I promise I shall shorten my answers in the future. All the best to you and yours. Dave PS for anyone doing research I would recommend the following site that covers all the Celtic areas <A HREF="http://web2.airmail.net/samhradh/">Radio Celtic Home Page</A> http://web2.airmail.net/samhradh/ and no its nae me. a big boy did it and ran off.