Jan + David, The 1841 and 1851 Census were the key to finding out my family, I suggest you get a researcher to do that. I was astounded to find out we were actually "Macisaac's" and changed their name to McDonald just before they left, but I got the full list of family members and almost year/dates of birth. So putting them all together was easier on the "Allison". Peter At 09:51 PM 6/27/00 +1000, Robert Grant wrote: >I would be pleased if someone could tell > >me how to further identify one of the HIES passengers who was simply > >listed as ie. Donald McDonald, 30 of Inverness. This description is so > >broad as to be virtually useless. Are there other records that expand on > >the HIES individuals. > >David > >Port Fairy > > > >Yes David there are. Which ship did Donald come on? In the lists that I >transcribed for Bryan Keddy's site I have only given name age and place they >were from. They are listed in family groups. These are the ship's lists >and the actual information in the manuscript shows Ref. No. Name, Age, >Residence, Estate, Remarks (which is something like £5.8.11 [the amount paid >for the voyage] - very eligible young people). However, to save time, I was >more interested in getting the names up with ships they came on so that >people would have something to start with. Giving the age and place they >were from should help to link in with other information that you have >gathered about the person, perhaps from parish registers, census lists, etc. >However, more importantly, there is the List of Immigrants as inspected by >the Immigration Board. This gives the further information that you would be >looking for such as Name, Age, Calling, Religion, Read or Write, Birth Place >and County, Parents Names and if alive, their residence. I know this is >available for ships into Sydney (Ontario and Bloomer) here at the National >Library but I am not sure about those which went to the other States. >Presumably this would be available at the relevant State Libraries. > >Regards, >Jan, Canberra, Australia

Jan, I got the HIES records from William "Bill" Clarke for the "Allison" and then matched them to the passengers so you could tell which family was which. When I went to the PRO of Victoria there was no way you could tell who was with who. You virtually had to guess. I am going to ask Bill if he could give me the rest of the HIES records.. Peter At 09:51 PM 6/27/00 +1000, Robert Grant wrote: >I would be pleased if someone could tell > >me how to further identify one of the HIES passengers who was simply > >listed as ie. Donald McDonald, 30 of Inverness. This description is so > >broad as to be virtually useless. Are there other records that expand on > >the HIES individuals. > >David > >Port Fairy > > > >Yes David there are. Which ship did Donald come on? In the lists that I >transcribed for Bryan Keddy's site I have only given name age and place they >were from. They are listed in family groups. These are the ship's lists >and the actual information in the manuscript shows Ref. No. Name, Age, >Residence, Estate, Remarks (which is something like £5.8.11 [the amount paid >for the voyage] - very eligible young people). However, to save time, I was >more interested in getting the names up with ships they came on so that >people would have something to start with. Giving the age and place they >were from should help to link in with other information that you have >gathered about the person, perhaps from parish registers, census lists, etc. >However, more importantly, there is the List of Immigrants as inspected by >the Immigration Board. This gives the further information that you would be >looking for such as Name, Age, Calling, Religion, Read or Write, Birth Place >and County, Parents Names and if alive, their residence. I know this is >available for ships into Sydney (Ontario and Bloomer) here at the National >Library but I am not sure about those which went to the other States. >Presumably this would be available at the relevant State Libraries. > >Regards, >Jan, Canberra, Australia

In a message dated 26/06/00 10:32:05 PM Central Daylight Time, bryanfkeddy@ns.sympatico.ca writes: << - and then the Hector launching in September... Anyway here's the notice that I just received re: the Halifax Highland Games and our MacLean's being honoured!!! Bryan Keddy Halifax, N.S. ---- >> Bryan my dear chap, the Maclean are not being honored, the rest of the world is simply accepting the realities of life. Virtue mine honor. Dave. M.

I would be pleased if someone could tell >me how to further identify one of the HIES passengers who was simply >listed as ie. Donald McDonald, 30 of Inverness. This description is so >broad as to be virtually useless. Are there other records that expand on >the HIES individuals. >David >Port Fairy > >Yes David there are. Which ship did Donald come on? In the lists that I transcribed for Bryan Keddy's site I have only given name age and place they were from. They are listed in family groups. These are the ship's lists and the actual information in the manuscript shows Ref. No. Name, Age, Residence, Estate, Remarks (which is something like £5.8.11 [the amount paid for the voyage] - very eligible young people). However, to save time, I was more interested in getting the names up with ships they came on so that people would have something to start with. Giving the age and place they were from should help to link in with other information that you have gathered about the person, perhaps from parish registers, census lists, etc. However, more importantly, there is the List of Immigrants as inspected by the Immigration Board. This gives the further information that you would be looking for such as Name, Age, Calling, Religion, Read or Write, Birth Place and County, Parents Names and if alive, their residence. I know this is available for ships into Sydney (Ontario and Bloomer) here at the National Library but I am not sure about those which went to the other States. Presumably this would be available at the relevant State Libraries. Regards, Jan, Canberra, Australia

Hi all, Don't know how many of you are aware of our Halifax Highland Games, but thought I would pass this along to those who may be interested and possibly will be in the area - looks like it's gonna be an extremely busy weekend for me as I also have a Keddy Re-union gathering at my father's old homestead in Martin's River, N.S. scheduled for July 9th and 10th..... Then the Tall Ships will be here from July 18th to the 24th - and then the Hector launching in September... Anyway here's the notice that I just received re: the Halifax Highland Games and our MacLean's being honoured!!! Bryan Keddy Halifax, N.S. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10:30 am a PHOTO-OP is being set up for the Clanspersons MACLEAN. Join us at the Clan MacLean Assoc. tent OFF SACKVILLE & SUMMER ST of the Wanderers Grounds. Our Clan MACLEAN has been selected by The Federation of Scottish Clans NS & THE SCOTS (NBS of Hfx).to be this year 2000's CLAN OF HONOUR.(The third so named) Note the same entry price covers both days: $8. Adults, $6. Seniors & Students. If you are in the area, you are invited to attend, and if your MacLean roots go back to a great grandmother, great! Our Clan MacLean-Atlantic (Can) looks forward to meeting you there. Those of us on EMAIL are a small fraction of MacLean Clanspepole out there. Would you be so kind as to inform any of your acquaintence. Now if 2000 show up for the Photo-op wouldnt that be a year/ Clan of Honour. "Ciade Mile Failte" Robert A B MacLean, President CMA(c) - --------------------------------------------------------------------------

David, not all of the Passengers on a HIES Ship were sponsored, some were just plain emigrating on their own. On the "Allison" 1852 I placed the HIES number beside the Passenger. Unfortunately not all ships have the HIES number beside them. I know the "Allison" has. The other problem was that the passenger lists broke the families out into; 1 Parents with children under 14 2. Single men 3. Single women But there were families members that were single men and woman over the age of 14. A very difficult task to work out who was part of the family. At 12:00 AM 6/27/00 +1000, you wrote: >In my recent postings on this issue, I wasn't suggesting that everyone >from the Inverness area would have left from Fort William. One of the >problems of trying to keep postings brief. >If one looks at the map of Scotland and the Highlands in particular, >there would appear to be several areas with access to shipping ports. >My emphasis should have been on those people living on the western end >of the Great Glen. I guess if one lived in the city of Inverness one >would head towards the coast at that end of Loch Ness and if one lived >on the western coast there would have been plenty of other options. >Those that referred to the HIES migrants do have the benefit of some >good record keeping which does not apparently apply to individual >Scottish immigrants, although I would be pleased if someone could tell >me how to further identify one of the HIES passengers who was simply >listed as ie. Donald McDonald, 30 of Inverness. This description is so >broad as to be virtually useless. Are there other records that expand on >the HIES individuals. >David >Port Fairy

Al, Yes that was a funny turn of phrase 'pregnant by court order' - hope you laughed. However, by elderly I meant just that. Graham was 70 and Camille had been Graham's lover for thirty years (it was alleged) without becoming pregnant. The child's legitimacy - do you have trouble accepting the elision of 'birth'? The language is 19th cent when they referred to 'illegitimate' children rather than children of illegitimate birth. Jane (spring chicken) -----Original Message----- From: b1caez01 <b1caez01@home.com> To: Jane Macgillivray <jane@providence2000.freeserve.co.uk> Date: 26 June 2000 17:56 Subject: Re: Mitchell >To be taken in humorous jest please, but I could not pass the >opportunity of commenting on the wonderful image you created in your >letter today. > >This couple must have been something. And dear Camille...ooh, la, la! > >"They had a child when they were quite elderly" >"the child's legitimacy was disputed" >"examined by the doctor at the British Embassy every time she became >pregnant by court order." > >That must have been some court order, to carry the sperm or the power of >impregnating Camille. To have the court, order a pregnancy, is unheard >of in modern times. > >All in jest...Al

Thanks Ruth, it helps to fill in yet another part of the story of their Journey.At 08:50 PM 6/26/00 +1000, J R Mingins wrote: >Hello all, >I don't know if this will help, but the following was sent >to me. It was researched by the descendants of Donald >McQuien (McQuinn) and his wife Janet McSween. Janet's >parents & siblings were all on the ship. Her parents are my >GGG Grandparents. Unfortunately I do not know who the >researcher was. > > >Notes for DONALD MACQUIEN: >Donald embarked on "Chevalier" from Raasay on 6 June 1854, >and on "George Johnston" 17 June 1854 from Birkenhead, >arriving at Portland, Vic, Aus on 3 Sep 1854. He (and his >wife) were sponsored by the Highland and Island Emigration >society, numbers 144 and 155 > >The "George Johnston" was actually the "Edward Johnston", so >there may be other inconsistencies as well. > >Ruth Mingins. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Beryl O'Gorman [mailto:wordweav@bigpond.net.au] > > Sent: Monday, 26 June 2000 15:24 > > To: Peter J. McDonald; condor@ansonic.com.au; > > gtranter@shoal.net.au; > > judys@ecn.net.au; melvab@tpgi.com.au; seanw@rpi.net.au; > > macfarlane@glenfinnanhouse.dialnet.com; > > malmcdon@powerup.com.au; > > ninostewart@hotmail.com; > > jtracey@heritagearchaeology.com.au; > > rosmci@eisa.net.au; ajmcdonald1@telstra.easymail.com.au; > > bjordan@pipeline.com.au; chitty@mns.net.au; > > camo@standard.net.au; > > clarke_bicheno@hotmail.com; > > emla53@mcmedia.com.au; seamus@dove.net.au; > > pricew@clear.net.nz; patsym3@ibm.net; plryan@bigpond.com; > > glenys@highway1.com.au; noelenemcdonnell@bigpond.com; > > families@netcomuk.co.uk; bryanfkeddy@ns.sympatico.ca; > > garden@eisa.net.au; minginsr@cqnet.com.au; > > loremck@jc.com.au; > > tduggin@camtech.net.au; cmcs@ozemail.com.au; > > grantos@ozemail.com.au; > > jrog@telstra.com; dashjk@ozemail.com.au > > Subject: Re: Departure Ships from Inverness-shire > > to the Ports of > > finalembarkation to Australia > > > > > > THis is growing isn't it? Should have our own > > little Message Group. > > I understood that most of them caught coastal > > shipping to Liverpool. I have > > an article somewhere about the journey and the > > waiting for a ship at > > Liverpool. Not necessarily from INV but from > > other parts of Scotland. Will > > see if I can find it. > > It was easier going to America because they were > > headed straight across the > > Atlantic were they not? > > I was at the Heritage Museum outside Tralee > > recently and asked why there was > > no mention of Australian emigrants and was told > > that mostly American > > emigrees left from there because the trip was > > straighforward. Australian > > emigrants from Ireland would head for Cobh and > > then across to England, or > > occasionally leave directly from there. > > Regards > > Beryl in Melbourne Australia > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Peter J. McDonald" <peter_mcdonald@sftw.com> > > To: <condor@ansonic.com.au>; > > <gtranter@shoal.net.au>; <judys@ecn.net.au>; > > <melvab@tpgi.com.au>; <seanw@rpi.net.au>; > > <macfarlane@glenfinnanhouse.dialnet.com>; > > <malmcdon@powerup.com.au>; > > <ninostewart@hotmail.com>; > > <jtracey@heritagearchaeology.com.au>; > > <rosmci@eisa.net.au>; <Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 2:25 PM > > Subject: Departure Ships from Inverness-shire to > > the Ports of > > finalembarkation to Australia > > > > > > > I know the Liverpool to Australia ships > > (Allison, 1852 etc) but am trying > > > to find out the Inverness-shire to Liverpool > > Ships that took the 300 down > > > there to Liverpool. > > > > > > At 04:59 PM 6/24/00 +1000, you wrote: > > > >Peter > > > >I know that the highlanders moved to the coast > > closest to them to board > > ships. > > > >In the case of several early (1770-1815) mass > > migrations, there were > > enough > > > > > >

In my recent postings on this issue, I wasn't suggesting that everyone from the Inverness area would have left from Fort William. One of the problems of trying to keep postings brief. If one looks at the map of Scotland and the Highlands in particular, there would appear to be several areas with access to shipping ports. My emphasis should have been on those people living on the western end of the Great Glen. I guess if one lived in the city of Inverness one would head towards the coast at that end of Loch Ness and if one lived on the western coast there would have been plenty of other options. Those that referred to the HIES migrants do have the benefit of some good record keeping which does not apparently apply to individual Scottish immigrants, although I would be pleased if someone could tell me how to further identify one of the HIES passengers who was simply listed as ie. Donald McDonald, 30 of Inverness. This description is so broad as to be virtually useless. Are there other records that expand on the HIES individuals. David Port Fairy

Can anyone tell me what lands were held by the Earl of Moray in the latter part of the 18th century, and what parishes were they in? Where would someone who was forester of the Earl of Moray have been living? Many thanks, Jane

I didn't realize that so many people in Oz were all interested in the same subject of emigrant movements to Australia and the related issue. I guess logic applies in this case as there were three considerations. The first is which was the closest seaport to the place of residence. The second is the size of the group planning to leave Scotland and the third is their destination. Clearly those in the western areas of Inverness made for Fort William as it had access to the sea and regular shipping down to Liverpool. If there were enough emigrants to fill a ship then why go to Liverpool. Those that came to Australia individually would have had to go via Liverpool to gain a passage on one of the emigrant ships. I have just finished reading People of Glengarry by MacLean where the author states that in the case of the MacDonald clan migrations to America & Canada 1773 - 1815, the leaders chartered their own ships from Fort Willam to go direct and not via Liverpool. In my own case, the two relatives Hugh & Duncan McDonald left between 1852 - 1856 probably on their own and not part of any scheme. I assume they would have caught a coastal ship to Liverpool and then embarked upon one of the regular shipping runs to Australia. Unfortunately I cant find any record in the Emigrant ships passenger lists of a Duncan (29) and a Ewen or Hugh (20) on the same ship arriving in Victoria between 1852 & 1856 (when he married in Victoria). I was hoping to work from the other end and locate a passenger list for a ship leaving Fort William around 1852-53 but this has proved impossible. David Port Fairy

In a message dated 24/06/00 2:07:23 AM Central Daylight Time, MerideeCM@aol.com writes: << Thanks for your speedy responses regarding what SKS and SKP stands for. I may have to ask an SKS or SKP for help now that I know what/and who they are. Thank you, Meridith Scott Keyes >> STOP <<<< You have to be related to Francis right? Dave M.

In a message dated 24/06/00 1:56:33 AM Central Daylight Time, MerideeCM@aol.com writes: << Okay, can someone tell me what SKS and SKP stand for? I have seen people requesting "SKS" and "SKP" to do lookups. I'm kind of new at this. Any help would be appreciated. Meridith Scott Keyes >> SKS = Scottish Kilt Seers, people who are on the look out for kilts while SKP is Scottish Kitlt Peepers (people who try and look up kilts.) You will note Muff, MumJamie and others fall into this catagory as well as a certain Lady in Alabama who is world Champion at this. Dave M.

Hi Meridith: I have been meaning to send this to you. Just a few I have accumulated. There are probably even more. Good Luck Lorraine Ottawa, Canada Short Forms AVRI = Australian Vital Records Index (a set of searchable Genealogy CD's) BMD = Birth, Marriage, Death BTW- By the way BVRI = British Vital Records Index (a set of searchable Genealogy CD's) FAQ = Frequently asked questions FHC - Family History Centre FRC = Family Records Centre F.Y.I.- For Your Information GRO - Government Record Office GSI = Genealogical Society of Ireland IGI - International Genealogy Index LOL - Lots of Laughs or Lots of Love MI - Monumental Inscriptions OCFA - Ontario Cemetery Finding Aid OPR - Old Parish Records PRO - Public Record Office RAK - Random Acts of Knowledge SKS - Some Kind Sole SRO - Scotland Record Office WEG- Wide Evil Grin :-)))- A Grin GRO = General Registry Office http://www.familysearch.org) IOW = Isle of Wight LDS = Latter Day Saints (Mormon) PRV = Public Record Office TIA = Thank you/Thanks in advance TTYL = Talk to you later WHO = World Health Organization W.D.T.L. = Who Departed This Life g> means grinning/smiling Words written in CAPITALS (other than names, places etc.) represent SHOUTING and should be avoided if possible.

Just remember this is between 1852 and 1858! Jan Canberra, Australia -----Original Message----- From: Marilyn Cameron <camo@standard.net.au> To: SCT-INVERNESS-L@rootsweb.com <SCT-INVERNESS-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Saturday, 24 June 2000 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-INV-L] departure ports >Dear David, >A lot of scottish people emigrated under the HIES scheme details of which >can be found on Brian Keddy's site > >http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/bryanfkeddy/Glen1.html > >Also the passenger lists for any who arrived at Portland are available at >Portland History House >03 55222266 The people at History House are very helpful >Regards Marilyn >A Warrnambool Neighbour > >David McDonald wrote: > >> Can SKS tell me what port highlanders from Glengarry district would have >> used in the mid 1800's to emigrate to Australia? Was Fort William such a >> port? >> I understand the migrants to Canada left from Fort William to go to >> Canada in 1770 & 1790 but I don't know if they shipped to say Liverpool, >> and then departed from there. >> David Australia > >

Thanks for your speedy responses regarding what SKS and SKP stands for. I may have to ask an SKS or SKP for help now that I know what/and who they are. Thank you, Meridith Scott Keyes

Okay, can someone tell me what SKS and SKP stand for? I have seen people requesting "SKS" and "SKP" to do lookups. I'm kind of new at this. Any help would be appreciated. Meridith Scott Keyes

Dear David, A lot of scottish people emigrated under the HIES scheme details of which can be found on Brian Keddy's site http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/bryanfkeddy/Glen1.html Also the passenger lists for any who arrived at Portland are available at Portland History House 03 55222266 The people at History House are very helpful Regards Marilyn A Warrnambool Neighbour David McDonald wrote: > Can SKS tell me what port highlanders from Glengarry district would have > used in the mid 1800's to emigrate to Australia? Was Fort William such a > port? > I understand the migrants to Canada left from Fort William to go to > Canada in 1770 & 1790 but I don't know if they shipped to say Liverpool, > and then departed from there. > David Australia

Hi List, I'm looking for Catherine McBain abt 51and her son Donald abt 26. Father died in1840 in Moy. His widow and son moved away, but I don't know where or if they're together. If SKS has an index that might show their new location I would be grateful. Bob McBain

Greetings to all This is part of my neverending search to pin my GGGrandfather (William) to a point in space and time on the planet. When my GGrandfather (John McIntosh) was married in 1870, William was not said to be deceased so I presume he was alive and a pensioner of the 93rd Regiment. John was also in the 93rd and said (army record) to be from Urquhart, Inverness. I have followed up quite a few Williams from the 93rd but have just come across one from Urquhart. He enlisted at Inverness 27/11/1813 at 18, so would have been born about 1795. He served until 1834. John was born in 1845 so this William would have been 50 at that time if he was the father. William served in the West Indies from 1825 to 1834, also Newfoundland for 16 months. I have never found a marriage record for William (Alexanderina McLeod was John's mother), but I have never searched the West Indies. If anyone has any pointers on any of the above I would appreciate receiving them. John. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~johnmc46lc/ ps Scotland play New Zealand at Rugby today in Dunedin, NZ, - the Edinburgh of the South. May the best team win.