1. Do any of you know of a good Gaelic to English translation dictionary? 2. Where is the Jacobites list? Thanks, Shanna Jones St. George, Utah sjones@redrock.net http://www.burgoyne.com/pages/sjones

Hi List I have a John Hay m Janet Mckenzie 7-8-1826 Inverness Scotland. I have no birth date for either. But have picked up on a James Hay b abt 1766 who married a Jane Skene 18-10-1791. I wonder if they may be connected to my gr gr grandfather John Hay. Thanks Jan

Hi List I have a John Hay m Janet Mckenzie 7-8-1826 Inverness Scotland. I have no birth date for either. But have picked up on a James Hay b abt 1766 who married a Jane Skene 18-10-1791. I wonder if they may be connected to my gr gr grandfather John Hay. Thanks Jan

Hello, I just returned from Salt Lake City and the FGS Genealogists Convention. I learned a lot, even about Highland Research. I was told there is a place called OBAN, with a lot of the parish records available about the Scottish Highlands. Has anyone ever heard of this? The LDS Family History Center does not have copies of this information. Have any of you accessed them before? Thanks for any ideas, Shanna Jones sjones@redrock.net Searching MacDONALD of Glengarry The Clan Ranald MacDONALDS GRANT of Craskie The Glen Morriston CAMPELLS http://www.burgoyne.com/pages/sjones

In a message dated 10/09/00 8:05:28 PM Central Daylight Time, sjones@redrock.net writes: << 1. Do any of you know of a good Gaelic to English translation dictionary? 2. Where is the Jacobites list? Jacobite list is on Roots web For all our macDonalds here are the words for Glencoe <A HREF="http://www.followme.com/cimcom/glencoe.htm">They came in a blizzard, we offered them heat / Ballad of Glencoe</A> Cheers Dave Thanks, Shanna Jones St. George, Utah sjones@redrock.net http://www.burgoyne.com/pages/sjones >>

In a message dated 10/09/00 8:05:28 PM Central Daylight Time, sjones@redrock.net writes: << 1. Do any of you know of a good Gaelic to English translation dictionary? 2. Where is the Jacobites list? Thanks, Shanna Jones St. George, Utah sjones@redrock.net http://www.burgoyne.com/pages/sjones >> I am sending this private mail because I have been a real blabber mouth lately and it is time to give others a chance. You can ask me and I sall try and translate although I have not the memory I used to and it has been a while since I spoke the gaelic and there are 3 dictionarys you can access from <A HREF="http://web2.airmail.net/samhradh/">R adio Celtic Home Page</A> just scrole down and click the Scottish flag and then scrole down to the gaelic dictionaries. By the way one even sounds out phrases so you can get an ear for them. Also the radio sight has a lot of Gaelic singers, my favourite is Ishbel MacAskill from Lewis see the music and artists on <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/radioscotland/Artistsatoz.html">T he Sound of the RSI Artists A to Z</A> if you wish a story or to see me at 16 outside the house in Melveig a very small village in Easter ross go to <A HREF="http://www.hometown.aol.com/radioscotland/stories.html">RSI STORIES AND PICTURES</A> For all of the MacDonalds out there here is the song about Glencoe: <A HREF="http://www.followme.com/cimcom/glencoe.htm">They came in a blizzard, we offered them heat / Ballad of Glencoe</A> Hope these help you in your search. When using the gaelic dictionary remember it is not a litteral language and many combinations of words can intone or mean many different things. If its just a few lines or words send them along and I shall try and translate it for you. Cheers dave

I've been catching up on my e-mail tonight and have to comment on Dave MacLean's wonderful sense of humor or is it humour on your side of the pond? My Highland blood is 2 generations and about 150 years removed but the sense of humor came with my grandparents all those years ago and hopefully, I have inherited it. Thank you Dave for keeping your sense of humor and for the very vivid depiction of life in the Highlands in the more recent past. If I had known that my grandmother was born in Inverness when I was in Scotland several years ago, I would have made it my business to go beyond Fort William. Unfortunately, my husband was getting a little bit tense due to his first time driving on the "wrong side" of the road. I was also a little tense being the passenger on the "drivers side" of the car. However, I now have a good excuse to come back over to a most beautiful country. Regards, Gail Anderson Bates Researching: GORDON, YOUNG, MACLEOD and MCEWAN (Inverness-shire and Ross-shire) ANDERSON and POLLOCK (Dumfries-Galloway)

David a wee snippet of information: the fellow who emigrated or his son (well, at least the heir male of the Macdonells of Glengarry) died and was buried in my home town of Dunedin, New Zealand in the 1860s. He might have moved on from Australia for the Otago gold rushes. I think he was unmarried and in his 20s or 30s and remember reading that the Clan Donald Society had some sort of graveside service a few years back. While on the topic of family heads, a few miles north in Oamaru (still in the same province of Otago), a Grant immigrant ended up as Earl of Seafield, Chief of Clan Grant etc in the 1880s. After his premature death, the family went back to Scotland and although they had the title, the crusty old dowager back at Cullen House near Banff wouldn't commune with the "colonials upstarts" and they only had a small allowance until her death. Peter Grant London (ex New Zealand) -----Original Message----- From: David McDonald [mailto:condor@ansonic.com.au] Sent: 10 September 2000 00:45 To: SCT-INVERNESS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SCT-INV-L] Glengarry MacDonnells I read a little bit of history on the net that stated that the last of the Glengarry MacDonnell's was Colonel Alexander Ranaldson MacDonnell who married Rebecca, second daughter of Sir William Forbes of Pitsligo in 1822. The Colonel had encumbered his estate to such an extent that when he died during a shipping accident in January 1828, his son (unanmed) had to sell the estate to the Marquis of Huntly and then he & his family migrated to Australia. I assume that this would have been in the late 1820's or early 1830's. Are there any experts out there that would know the name of the Colonel's son and when / where he immigrated to in Australia. If all this is true, it would suggest that the Glengarry MacDonnell line now resides in Australia. David Port Fairy ______________________________

Hi, Is there anyone who has access to a copy of this census who could do a lookup for me. On the index on Scots Origins I have found the following: Duncan MCLEOD Age 75 114 2 03 006 Rachel " Age 73 114 2 03 005 John " Age 50 114 2 02 006 Donald " Age 49 114 2 01 014 Donald " Age 44 114 2 03 006 Norman " Age 46 114 2 01 001 I need to know which of these, if any, were in the same households, their relationships if they were in the same households, and who else was with them, in an attempt to see if these are the very long lost relatives who did not emigrate to South Australia when all the rest of the family did. I will be extremely grateful if anyone can help. Thank you Janet McLeod

Your quite right Don, most did go to Canada. In fact, my line of McDonalds were from Leek and John McDonald of Leek with his brothers Allan & Alexander were the first to leave en-masse on the Pearl in the late 1700's. My family were left in Leek and prior to them disappearing from there around 1850, at least two of them came to Australia. These are the ones from whom I descended (Hugh & Duncan McDonnell). There are of course heaps of McDonalds from Glengarry but the ruling family of Lord McDonald of Glengarry would have had only one formal line of descent, the eldest son of the eldest son etc. This is the person to whom I was referring. The official seat of the McDonalds in Glengarry was I believe at Invergarry and this was the Colonel's home until his death. When his eldest son (whoever he was) sold off the family lands and migrated to Australia, he would have bought the formal line of descent with him. I am not laying any claim to the line, rather I am interested in knowing why my family came to Australia rather than going with the mob to Canada. Current thoughts are that they may have followed in the footsteps of the Glengarry to Australia circa 1830-1840 rather than those who went to Canada much earlier. I know that Hugh & Duncan were assisted to migrate to Australia but this assistance does not appear to have been from the HIES. The assisted passage suggests someone else paid for their passage. As we didn't have any relatives to my knowledge - perhaps the Glengarry footed the bill to provide labor on his Australian holdings wherever thay may have neen. David Port Fairy DMacdon152@aol.com wrote: > I wouldn't bet either way where the Glengarry Macdonald line is the thickest, > but my ggf, one Donald Roy McDonald born about 1799-1800, told his parish > priest in Alexandria, Ontario, Canada, that he was from Glengarry in > Scotland. His brother, Kenneth, also resided there, and he married a Anne > McDonnell, also supposedly from Glengarry, SCT. There are so many McDonald, > MacDonald, McDonell, MacDonnel, (and the umpteen other spellings) in Canada, > coupled with the fact that the county was named Glengarry, that I would > suspect the majority went west rather than south. > Don

In a message dated 10/09/00 2:53:12 AM Central Daylight Time, condor@ansonic.com.au writes: << eldest son of the eldest son etc. This is the person to whom I was referring. The official seat of the McDonalds in Glengarry was I believe at Invergarry and this was the Colonel's home until his death. When his eldest son (whoever he was) sold off the family lands and migrated to Australia, he would have bought the formal line of descent with him. I am not laying any claim to the line, rather I am interested in knowing why my family came to Australia rather than going with the mob to Canada. Current thoughts are that they may have followed in the footsteps of the Glengarry to >> Glengarry Ontario Canada has a small museum and heritage center that may be able to help. A lot of the MacDonald founders children still farm the area. It may be in Prescot Russell County now I am not sure, but I believe the history center is in MaxVille a very small village where they have the Highland Games every first weekend of August. It is a massive games too and a great one. The story goes that a regiment from Gelngarry (Scotland), was marching from Montreal to Toronto and when they got to Glengarry On. they had to stop for 3 days as the troops had so many relatives there. Dave

In a message dated 10/09/00 1:04:43 AM Central Daylight Time, marilynstirling@stirlingross.freeserve.co.uk writes: << assume that you've ruled out Rioch being a house, farm, hamlet etc. >> Darn you and your question. You have me thinking now, a great accomplishment on your part. Because of the Gaelic irony you may have brought up an interesting point. If the man Donald, lived on a bit of a house or land that was barren, or really stood out it could locally could be known as the scar or Rioch, although that is a long shot, it is not impossible although I think they would of perhaps used another word. Rioch means scar, slice along skin, as in rioch (riuch) e air mo chraiceann it grazed my flesh. Note it is not a deep wound thus my impression it could also include a birth mark or as you have mentioned a scar on the ground, but I feel this is a long shot, as there are many more words for that description that could be a lot moe fun. If you add a d on the end of rioch making it riochd you are then talking about an appearance or such as in ciod is riochd do m' aisling, what does my dream mean? chaidh i an riochd gerraidh she took the shape of a rabbit. Sorry I can not be of more help, but I would have to say that the chance of it being a place is a real long shot, but again that is only my OPINION and not a fact. We had a man, my uncle Boyan wounded in the war who was called Geran (an appealer, complainer) The man was in pain every day of his life from being torrpedoed 3 times in the North Atlantic, but never uttered a word of complaint. The joke was he did not complain until the groaned of his last breath escaping. (That is a saying of great respect). Cheers Dave PS by the way I am dyslexic so please do not trust the Gaelic spelling as I do not have Gaelic spell check .

In a message dated 10/09/00 1:04:43 AM Central Daylight Time, marilynstirling@stirlingross.freeserve.co.uk writes: << assume that you've ruled out Rioch being a house, farm, hamlet etc. >> No, rule out nothing as I said I have not used the Gaelic in a number of years my fluency is not what it was as a child, but the word Rioch means scar as far as I know, or to flay as in butcher flesh. Again as in any language there are different dialects and local sayings, and Highlanders, especially we Gaels, have a gift for the ironic so can make getting a 100 or 200 year old name a little chancy at times. The small village I grew up in, when not in Inverness had about 20 people all with the same last name, and many with the same first name, so our last name was useless and everyone had a nic name of sorts. I am sure you have also run into the challenge of the Highland naming patterns. For instance my brother is called Iain, named after my father John, (named in English) he is called Iain, Eyowney, Eyouwnuck, Eenochand even Yorie at times. A lot of the Gaelic depends on the inflections and the personal knowledge the two people conversing have of a person or the topic, much the same as in the English. The name may reflect this. For example if we are talking at home about my brother Iain who was an officer in Her Majesties service for years and let us say the situation is we are out in the woods and he hurts himself. We may refer to him as "Iain the commando" with a wink intoned in the inflection. When we were kids he tipped over the boat while dressed in his best clothing and for years was referred to, especially to get his goat, as the little admiral. I had best stop now as I am starting to confuse myself. I hope I have not confused you also. Dave You will note that Donald mhor may be the fat, tall, skinny or short although the name translated is Big Donald.

I assume that you've ruled out Rioch being a house, farm, hamlet etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: <ScotHeritage@aol.com> To: <SCT-INVERNESS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 4:30 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-INV-L] Translation of Gaelic name - help requested > In a message dated 09/09/00 6:53:53 PM Central Daylight Time, > shawa@fastlink.com.au writes: > > << In the Inverness court records for 1790 Donald Kennedy was also shown with > an alias of "Donald in Rioch". i imagine this was phonetically translated by > the English clerk of the court at the time and was obviously an attempt to > record the Gaellic name of Donald. > > I would doubt that anyone in Inverness at that time in history was not fluent > in the Gaelic and an educated man like a clark would also have the Soct's > English . A rioch in this context would likely be either a scar from a wound. > he could have a birth mark or a scar thus Donald in Rioch, donald with the > scar, "IN " is simply a prefix in the Gaelic. > > Eion or Iain or Ian, (John), would never be shortened to ie, is pronounced, > depending on the dialect s Eee yow nie sort of. I am quite dyslexic so trying > to write in phonetics is not my strong suite I am sorry. The Donald although > spellt in the English would of been pronounced Dhon auld, even today if one > had a strong Unvarneeziun accent mun. > Hope this helps. I would say the record, or name at least is written in > Gaelic and not English. Even as a youngster Inverness was not a stranger to > the Gaelic on market day, and there was a considerable community of Gaels at > the bottom of Stephen's Brae, (and more down near O'Connel st. I think it is, > down near the baths, or where the baths used to be. > DaveM. > > Alistair Macleod kindly suggested to me some years ago that this probably > translates as "Domhnall Iain Riabhaich" (Donald, son of tawnyhaired or > brindlehaired John). > My question is : could the "in" possibly be Ewen or Evan ? a Gaellic grammar > book I have states "Eoin" can be spoken as "En", is this correct or am I way > off track ? > Any assistance would be greatly appreciated as I have unsuccessfully > searched for Donald's background for some 13 years. > > Cheers from Downunder, > Alan Shaw > >> > >

Hi Robert,Bryan, Dave & Mark, Firstly: To Robert. Alas I missed Joe's message concerning the Inverness URL going into cyberspace, otherwise I would definitely copied a lot of his info. To Bryan. Good for you, putting the information back online. What would we do without you. Genealogy wouldn't be interesting if we all found our ancestors immediately, hence the neccessity for good websites to be online indefinitely, after all you can't break down brick walls overnight, some may take years. Also pleased to see Cromdale added, thanks. >>Oh well I've already started to put the information back online again......and it will be linked directly to my Scotland Glens website (probably by next weekend)..... Now I've noticed that there wasn't any information on Cromdale, Croy & Dalcross, Kilmalie, or a parish #116 on Skye......so if anyone has anything of interest including parish #, LDS birth, marriage or death numbers as well as a brief description on these to add - it would be appreciated by all....<< To Dave, By the way, I had a good laugh you sitting on the wall, waiting for the money to fall from the pockets of the brawlers. You must have given your mum some grey hairs.  :-)) To Mark, Like Jane I would also like to know the name of Captain Grant please. Can someone email me offline please with the easiest way to save the Strath-Nairn and Nairn webpages, before they also go. I would like to also save the hyperlinks as well. I need to know in what form, (eg. Word, etc.) and step by step in saving hyperlinks. OR Joe would you please let Bryan put these on his webpages,  for all to benefit from in the future. Please consider all the new researchers of the future who will be able to use it along with us who are still breaking those walls down. Regards to all, Laraine    

Mark wrote: >If any of you are interested in this and the debate which regularly >rages between cousin Dave and me (by the way we are both descended not only >from a good Jacobite but also related to one of the most evil Highland >Hanoverians, Captain Grant of Knockando who butchered his way through >Speyside and the Great Glen after Culloden at the head of his Highland >Company) then join my Jacobites list I would be interested to know which Grant this was. I know that Captain Ludovic Grant of Knockando (perhaps son of above?) held a commission in the 89th Regiment of Foot in 1759, at the same time as Capt William Macgillivray of Dunmaglass (whose elder brother Alexander Macgillivray had led the McIntosh regiment at Culloden and died). The regiment was raised by the Dowager Duchess of Gordon for her son and placed under the command of her second husband, the American Staats Long Morris. Other captains in this regiment were Alexander, 4th Duke of Gordon, Alexander Duff of Davidston (whose grandmother had famously declared ‘soldiers is but slaves’), Normand Lamont, son of the Laird of Lamont, Duncan Macpherson of Bleaton, George Morison, and. Dunbar of Duffus’ son. So in Inverness 13 years after Culloden, the hatchet seems to have been buried as Hanoverian and Jacobite sons were fighting side by side - yet it is frequently disinterred today! Jane

In the Inverness court records for 1790 Donald Kennedy was also shown with an alias of "Donald in Rioch". i imagine this was phonetically translated by the English clerk of the court at the time and was obviously an attempt to record the Gaellic name of Donald. Alistair Macleod kindly suggested to me some years ago that this probably translates as "Domhnall Iain Riabhaich" (Donald, son of tawnyhaired or brindlehaired John). My question is : could the "in" possibly be Ewen or Evan ? a Gaellic grammar book I have states "Eoin" can be spoken as "En", is this correct or am I way off track ? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated as I have unsuccessfully searched for Donald's background for some 13 years. Cheers from Downunder, Alan Shaw

I read a little bit of history on the net that stated that the last of the Glengarry MacDonnell's was Colonel Alexander Ranaldson MacDonnell who married Rebecca, second daughter of Sir William Forbes of Pitsligo in 1822. The Colonel had encumbered his estate to such an extent that when he died during a shipping accident in January 1828, his son (unanmed) had to sell the estate to the Marquis of Huntly and then he & his family migrated to Australia. I assume that this would have been in the late 1820's or early 1830's. Are there any experts out there that would know the name of the Colonel's son and when / where he immigrated to in Australia. If all this is true, it would suggest that the Glengarry MacDonnell line now resides in Australia. David Port Fairy

In a message dated 09/09/00 8:49:16 PM Central Daylight Time, larained@ihug.co.nz writes: << To Dave, By the way, I had a good laugh you sitting on the wall, waiting for the money to fall from the pockets of the brawlers. You must have given your mum some grey hairs.  :-)) >> I come from a family of Abused PARENTS hahaha Dave

In a message dated 09/09/00 7:26:08 PM Central Daylight Time, jane@providence2000.freeserve.co.uk writes: << So in Inverness 13 years after Culloden, the hatchet seems to have been buried as Hanoverian and Jacobite sons were fighting side by side - yet it is frequently disinterred today! Jane >> Jane many a lad, myself included, have served in a Highland Regiment, which by law is a member of the british army, but by personal definitions we were NOT british soldiers, we were Highlanders, even though orders were by my time in English and a lot of lowlanders had entered the regiment, (not so in the time you are giving when orders were issued in the gaelic in most Highland regiments) so while we may of fought side by side there is little difference in our humble opinion between an English regiment beside us or an American or any other, although I did notice an affinity with the Canadians and Aussies, and Kewee's. (ANZAK) By the way one of the most impressive things I have ever seen as a mark of respect and remembrance was in a small town called Leeton in NSW when at the 11,11,11, everything in the town came to a stop even cars pulled over etc and shop keepers stoped serving and even in pubs glasses were put down and everyone stood silent for that minute. Same as in the club, sort of like the (American/Canadian legion when every day they stop for a minutes silence. Dave