Anne, there is a way of getting some information off censuses early - although I think you need to have an address to be searched for not a name - but it is expensive, about £50.00 Where do you live? are you near to Preston Liz > >Hi Janet, Liz and June, > >Thank you for your replies. > >My great grandfather Peter Abbott had served in the army in the West Indies >and was supposed to be sailing to Cork, but the weather was too bad and he >ended up in Edinburgh. He served at the Castle for 12 months in about >1867. >In 1869 he was in the Barracks in Newport, Monmouthshire and Isabella was >in >a lodging house and they were married in a catholic church nearby. I don't >know weather she travelled there with him or followed him. Peter was a >catholic and their children were brought up as catholics, but Isabella is >buried in the Church of England part of Preston Cemetery and Peter is >buried >in the catholic part. > >They went to Ireland after their marriage and my grandma's brother and >sister were born there. The children after them were born in Preston. > >They named their children William (Peter's father was called William) and >Isabella said her father was also William, Peter, Elizabeth, Alice (Peter's >mother's name), John and my grandma Ann Jane. > > >From this I would guess that Isabella's mother was also Isabella, >Elizabeth, >Ann or Jane. > >Liz, I will do as you suggest and try other spellings of Rutherford. I >know >there can be some weird and wonderful transcriptions on Ancestry. > >June, I have gone sideways, backwards and forwards and everything else I >can >think of. Like you, I am just hoping something hits me in the face, that I >have not thought of before. > >Unfortunately, I have no-one left that I can ask about their grandmother. >The only thing I was told about her is that she was a good christian woman >who read the bible every day and came from a big farm in Scotland. > >I am waiting for the 1911 Preston Census to come out, in the hope it gives >a >more accurate place of birth. I have read that it may be available in >2009. > >Best Wishes, > >Anne in Bolton. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Janet" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 5:00 PM >Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD > > > > Anne. I just want to say, I sympathise with you in your dilemma. I am > > however rather puzzled that Peter Abbott and your Isabella were married >in > > Newport, Wales when he was eventually posted to Edinburgh Castle and >then > > Ireland. As a rule, we know that a marriage would have taken place in >the > > Parish of the bride. Something doesn't quite fit, to my mind. > > > > As to the identity of the father of Isabella, I can empathise here. My > > own mother, illegitimate at birth, named her grandfather as her father >on > > the occasion of her marriage to my father. > > > > The information in the three census records also doesn't seem to fit, >does > > it. > > > > I am related to a number of Isabella females who came from big farms in > > Scotland. It is so that the Scottish naming patterns, when applied, >cause > > confusion. I would however be inclined to accept the information of >your > > grandmother, even though we know that grandmothers are given to a slight > > loss of detail, and inclined to romanticise, as mine was. Nevertheless, >as > > to the basics I have found what my grandmother told me to be true. > > > > You're suffering from the migration syndrome where once they removed to > > another part of the country, i.e. Britain, anything is possible. I have > > something similar. > > > > I would however recommend you try looking for death certificates. I >have > > found them amazingly useful, calculating dates of death, except, with a > > mind that early death is possible. Calculate your grandmother's birth >and > > have an open mind from there. > > > > I realise that what I have said may have muddied the waters somewhat, or > > perhaps not. Don't give up. > > > > Janet > > PS As I have been writing this two or three other responses have come in > > which I have not read. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "pneanne" <[email protected]> > > > > > >> Please, please, please, can someone help me to find my great >grandmother, > >> > >> I have been researching my family for over 20 years and have also >helped > >> numerous other people knock down their brick walls, so I am not a >novice, > >> but I am absolutely stuck on my great grandmother Isabella Rutherford > >> born about 1846, Scotland. On the censuses her age is very consistent > >> 1846/47. > >> > >> On her marriage to Peter Abbott of Preston, Lancashire she shows her > >> father as William Rutherford, coachman. Peter and Isabella were married > >> in Newport, Wales, as he was in the army. In 1871 he was stationed in > >> Ireland, so I have not got her on the 1871 Census. > >> > >> Peter Abbott was stationed at Edinburgh Castle in the 1860's before >they > >> got married, so she may be from Edinburgh or was living there at the > >> time. > >> > >> On the 1881 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as EDINBURGH. > >> > >> On the 1891 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PRESTON. > >> > >> On the 1901 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PAISLEY. > >> > >> Years ago, I sent for a birth certificate for Isabella Rutherford, born > >> 1846 Edinburgh, father William Rutherford. I was sent the certificate >for > >> Isabella Rutherford, father William Rutherford, fisherman and Christian > >> Steele, in Newhaven, North Leith. I researched this family for ages and > >> travelled to Edinburgh a few times. I eventually discounted this >family, > >> as this Isabella was still in Newhaven, Leith in 1901. I have also > >> discounted Isabella daughter of William Rutherford and Jessie Balmer. > >> > >> I have looked on the 1851 and 1861 Scotland Census Indexes on Ancestry > >> and also looked for births on Scotland's People, but nothing fits. > >> > >> I am beginning to think that Isabella made up the name of her father. > >> > >> One piece of information I had from my auntie was that her grandmother > >> Isabella came from a big farm. > >> > >> If anyone can help me I will be eternally grateful, as I would love to > >> find her family and trace them further back. > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> > >> Anne in Bolton, Lancashire. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: > > 26/12/2006 12:23 > > > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. 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Hi Liz, I am in Bolton, about 20 miles from Preston. I think the price is £45, but you need to have the exact address. They will only look at that address and will not do any searches. I am thinking of paying £45, but it may say she was born in Preston again, which will be wrong. Also I will have to go to Preston Library to look at the Electoral Register for 1911 to see if it shows where she lived at the time. I am not sure if it shows women. She was widowed by then. Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Parkinson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD > Anne, there is a way of getting some information off censuses early - > although I think you need to have an address to be searched for not a > name - > but it is expensive, about £50.00 > > Where do you live? are you near to Preston > > Liz >> >>Hi Janet, Liz and June, >> >>Thank you for your replies. >> >>My great grandfather Peter Abbott had served in the army in the West >>Indies >>and was supposed to be sailing to Cork, but the weather was too bad and he >>ended up in Edinburgh. He served at the Castle for 12 months in about >>1867. >>In 1869 he was in the Barracks in Newport, Monmouthshire and Isabella was >>in >>a lodging house and they were married in a catholic church nearby. I >>don't >>know weather she travelled there with him or followed him. Peter was a >>catholic and their children were brought up as catholics, but Isabella is >>buried in the Church of England part of Preston Cemetery and Peter is >>buried >>in the catholic part. >> >>They went to Ireland after their marriage and my grandma's brother and >>sister were born there. The children after them were born in Preston. >> >>They named their children William (Peter's father was called William) and >>Isabella said her father was also William, Peter, Elizabeth, Alice >>(Peter's >>mother's name), John and my grandma Ann Jane. >> >> >From this I would guess that Isabella's mother was also Isabella, >>Elizabeth, >>Ann or Jane. >> >>Liz, I will do as you suggest and try other spellings of Rutherford. I >>know >>there can be some weird and wonderful transcriptions on Ancestry. >> >>June, I have gone sideways, backwards and forwards and everything else I >>can >>think of. Like you, I am just hoping something hits me in the face, that >>I >>have not thought of before. >> >>Unfortunately, I have no-one left that I can ask about their grandmother. >>The only thing I was told about her is that she was a good christian woman >>who read the bible every day and came from a big farm in Scotland. >> >>I am waiting for the 1911 Preston Census to come out, in the hope it gives >>a >>more accurate place of birth. I have read that it may be available in >>2009. >> >>Best Wishes, >> >>Anne in Bolton. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Janet" <[email protected]> >>To: <[email protected]> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 5:00 PM >>Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD >> >> >> > Anne. I just want to say, I sympathise with you in your dilemma. I >> > am >> > however rather puzzled that Peter Abbott and your Isabella were married >>in >> > Newport, Wales when he was eventually posted to Edinburgh Castle and >>then >> > Ireland. As a rule, we know that a marriage would have taken place in >>the >> > Parish of the bride. Something doesn't quite fit, to my mind. >> > >> > As to the identity of the father of Isabella, I can empathise here. My >> > own mother, illegitimate at birth, named her grandfather as her father >>on >> > the occasion of her marriage to my father. >> > >> > The information in the three census records also doesn't seem to fit, >>does >> > it. >> > >> > I am related to a number of Isabella females who came from big farms in >> > Scotland. It is so that the Scottish naming patterns, when applied, >>cause >> > confusion. I would however be inclined to accept the information of >>your >> > grandmother, even though we know that grandmothers are given to a >> > slight >> > loss of detail, and inclined to romanticise, as mine was. Nevertheless, >>as >> > to the basics I have found what my grandmother told me to be true. >> > >> > You're suffering from the migration syndrome where once they removed to >> > another part of the country, i.e. Britain, anything is possible. I >> > have >> > something similar. >> > >> > I would however recommend you try looking for death certificates. I >>have >> > found them amazingly useful, calculating dates of death, except, with a >> > mind that early death is possible. Calculate your grandmother's birth >>and >> > have an open mind from there. >> > >> > I realise that what I have said may have muddied the waters somewhat, >> > or >> > perhaps not. Don't give up. >> > >> > Janet >> > PS As I have been writing this two or three other responses have come >> > in >> > which I have not read. >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "pneanne" <[email protected]> >> > >> > >> >> Please, please, please, can someone help me to find my great >>grandmother, >> >> >> >> I have been researching my family for over 20 years and have also >>helped >> >> numerous other people knock down their brick walls, so I am not a >>novice, >> >> but I am absolutely stuck on my great grandmother Isabella Rutherford >> >> born about 1846, Scotland. On the censuses her age is very consistent >> >> 1846/47. >> >> >> >> On her marriage to Peter Abbott of Preston, Lancashire she shows her >> >> father as William Rutherford, coachman. Peter and Isabella were >> >> married >> >> in Newport, Wales, as he was in the army. In 1871 he was stationed in >> >> Ireland, so I have not got her on the 1871 Census. >> >> >> >> Peter Abbott was stationed at Edinburgh Castle in the 1860's before >>they >> >> got married, so she may be from Edinburgh or was living there at the >> >> time. >> >> >> >> On the 1881 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as EDINBURGH. >> >> >> >> On the 1891 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PRESTON. >> >> >> >> On the 1901 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PAISLEY. >> >> >> >> Years ago, I sent for a birth certificate for Isabella Rutherford, >> >> born >> >> 1846 Edinburgh, father William Rutherford. I was sent the certificate >>for >> >> Isabella Rutherford, father William Rutherford, fisherman and >> >> Christian >> >> Steele, in Newhaven, North Leith. I researched this family for ages >> >> and >> >> travelled to Edinburgh a few times. I eventually discounted this >>family, >> >> as this Isabella was still in Newhaven, Leith in 1901. I have also >> >> discounted Isabella daughter of William Rutherford and Jessie Balmer. >> >> >> >> I have looked on the 1851 and 1861 Scotland Census Indexes on Ancestry >> >> and also looked for births on Scotland's People, but nothing fits. >> >> >> >> I am beginning to think that Isabella made up the name of her father. >> >> >> >> One piece of information I had from my auntie was that her grandmother >> >> Isabella came from a big farm. >> >> >> >> If anyone can help me I will be eternally grateful, as I would love to >> >> find her family and trace them further back. >> >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> >> >> Anne in Bolton, Lancashire. >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > -- >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: >> > 26/12/2006 12:23 >> > >> > >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows LiveT Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! > http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: 26/12/2006 12:23

If it were me, I wouldnt spend £50 on an uncertainty. I admit to having paid about that much for an extensive search of records, but I really do mean extensive, by a Library. I think that sort of fee has to be a last ditch effort. I agree, others may not share this view. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Parkinson" <[email protected]> > Anne, there is a way of getting some information off censuses early - > although I think you need to have an address to be searched for not a name - > but it is expensive, about £50.00 > > Where do you live? are you near to Preston > > Liz

I chose not to either for one of mine, and was glad I didnt because when the 1901 came out, it wouldnt have got me much further! Liz >From: "Janet" <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD >Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:00:38 -0000 > >If it were me, I wouldnt spend £50 on an uncertainty. I admit to having >paid about that much for an extensive search of records, but I really do >mean extensive, by a Library. I think that sort of fee has to be a last >ditch effort. I agree, others may not share this view. > >Janet > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Liz Parkinson" <[email protected]> > > > > Anne, there is a way of getting some information off censuses early - > > although I think you need to have an address to be searched for not a >name - > > but it is expensive, about £50.00 > > > > Where do you live? are you near to Preston > > > > Liz > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Find Singles In Your Area This Christmas With Match.com! msnuk.match.com