Hi My father was illegitimate. His birth certificate does not show "illegitimate" although there is no father's name. My mother in law was also illegitimate. Not only does it show " illegitimate" but records that her mother was the widow of a man killed in a pit accident some years earlier. Just in case we were in doubt. Another birth certificate I have shows " illegitimate" and under the mother's name states (daughter of labourer). Maybe it was up to the registrar. Ella Ross, Sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie > Good morning/evening Janice > > Forget my comment about the butcher's assistant; I wasn't thinking > straight > when I asked that question. > > However I have been thinking about Eva's birth certificate. Have you seen > a > copy of the Scottish birth certificate, or was the information relayed to > you? It is most unusual on Scottish birth certificates to name the > occupation of the mother's father. I have seen other birth certificates > for > illegitimate births where only the name of the mother is given, and they > have not specified the maternal grandfather's occupation. Another thing: > illegitimate births were noted as such on Scottish birth certificates, in > the first column, headed "Name and Surname" although I imagine they have > stopped this rather cruel practice now. > > By the time that Eva was born, her grandfather John Brown had progressed > to > being a butcher rather than a butcher's assistant which he had been when > his > daughter Ann Milne Brown was born, and which is named as his occupation on > Ann's birth certificate. Mary Knowles father was a butcher just some doors > down from where he lived at the time he married Mary, and I expect he > probably worked as an assistant to his future father-in-law. > > > Regards > Rhoda > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janice Doughty" <adoughty01@optusnet.com.au> > To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:15 PM > Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie > > >> Good morning Rhoda, >> >> What a wealth of information, and some of its looks really very >> promising. >> Thank you so much for all this family research you have carried out. I >> am >> now going to study it very carefully. Also, your question could Ann's >> mother be the 'Butcher's Assistant"? I suppose so, as she does not say >> mother or father, just "...daughter of a butcher's assistant..." >> >> Once I hear back from Bob, I will let you know what he intends to do, >> with >> all this information you and other Listers have been so generous >> providing. >> >> Regards, >> Janice >> Belrose - Sydney >> Australia >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> >> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 7:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie >> >> >>> Hi Janice >>> >>> Pinkie is a district of Musselburgh. I used to pass through Musselburgh >>> fairly frequently when I was a child on the way to see my Grandmother in >>> North Berwick. >>> >>> I googled "Pinkie" and there were several references to St Peter's >>> Primary >>> School. >>> >>> To go back to the Montgomery family. There were a few Montgomeries in >>> Musselburgh in the 1901 Census. I did a bit of searching yesterday and >>> looked up marriages between Montgomery (male) and Brown (female) in >>> "Inveresk and Musselburgh". Between 1900 and 1932 there was one >>> marriage - >>> between Andrew Montgomery and Alice Brown in 1909. He was the son of >>> George >>> Montgomery and Agnes Aikman. She was illegitimate, the daughter of >>> Margaret >>> Cockburn Brown who had later married Alexander Baptie. Doesn't really >>> sound >>> very hopeful. >>> >>> There were 3 marriages in the whole of Midlothian between Male >>> Montgomeries >>> and Female Browns. Apart from George and Agnes above, there was 1 in the >>> district of St Andrew in Edinburgh in 1917 between James Montgomery, >>> Bookkeeper, and Annie Brown, daughter of William Brown, Fishmonger, and >>> Agnes Dickson. Both Annie and James were living in 31 Dudley Crescent, >>> Leith at the time of the marriage. He was 25 and she was 30. It was a >>> "marriage by declaration" (a civil marriage) in the presence of William >>> Gray, Coalminer, and Catherine Brown. >>> >>> The 3rd marriage was in Canongate, Edinburgh in 1911 between Hugh >>> Montgomery >>> and Christina Isabel Brown. I haven't looked at the image. >>> >>> I also looked at births of Montgomery female children in between 1909 >>> and >>> 1930 in "Inveresk and Musselburgh". There were 13 listed, as follows: >>> 1909 Margaret Brown >>> 1909 Violet Naysmith >>> 1910 Agnes Begbie >>> 1911 Annie Bryden >>> 1913 Sarah Bowman >>> 1917 Catherine >>> 1913 Jessie Robertson >>> 1920 Annie >>> 1921 Margaret Davina >>> 1921 Jemima Barr >>> 1922 Janet Moffatt >>> 1924 Jean >>> 1930 Elizabeth >>> (there are no images on Scotlands People for these births). >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. 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Re Scottish Birth Registrations: My father was illegitimate - but I was very fortunate that both his mother, father & their occupations were noted on the certificate. Regards Beth beautiful SUNNY northern NSW. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ella Ross" <ebbtide@ihug.com.au> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: [SCT-EDINBURGH] Birth certificates > Hi > My father was illegitimate. His birth certificate does not show > "illegitimate" although there is no father's name. > > My mother in law was also illegitimate. Not only does it show " > illegitimate" but records that her mother was the widow of a man killed in > a > pit accident some years earlier. Just in case we were in doubt. > > Another birth certificate I have shows " illegitimate" and under the > mother's name states (daughter of labourer). > > Maybe it was up to the registrar. > > Ella Ross, Sydney > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> > To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:17 AM > Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie > > >> Good morning/evening Janice >> >> Forget my comment about the butcher's assistant; I wasn't thinking >> straight >> when I asked that question. >> >> However I have been thinking about Eva's birth certificate. Have you >> seen >> a >> copy of the Scottish birth certificate, or was the information relayed to >> you? It is most unusual on Scottish birth certificates to name the >> occupation of the mother's father. I have seen other birth certificates >> for >> illegitimate births where only the name of the mother is given, and they >> have not specified the maternal grandfather's occupation. Another thing: >> illegitimate births were noted as such on Scottish birth certificates, in >> the first column, headed "Name and Surname" although I imagine they have >> stopped this rather cruel practice now. >> >> By the time that Eva was born, her grandfather John Brown had progressed >> to >> being a butcher rather than a butcher's assistant which he had been when >> his >> daughter Ann Milne Brown was born, and which is named as his occupation >> on >> Ann's birth certificate. Mary Knowles father was a butcher just some >> doors >> down from where he lived at the time he married Mary, and I expect he >> probably worked as an assistant to his future father-in-law. >> >> >> Regards >> Rhoda >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Janice Doughty" <adoughty01@optusnet.com.au> >> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:15 PM >> Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie >> >> >>> Good morning Rhoda, >>> >>> What a wealth of information, and some of its looks really very >>> promising. >>> Thank you so much for all this family research you have carried out. I >>> am >>> now going to study it very carefully. Also, your question could Ann's >>> mother be the 'Butcher's Assistant"? I suppose so, as she does not say >>> mother or father, just "...daughter of a butcher's assistant..." >>> >>> Once I hear back from Bob, I will let you know what he intends to do, >>> with >>> all this information you and other Listers have been so generous >>> providing. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Janice >>> Belrose - Sydney >>> Australia >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> >>> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 7:25 PM >>> Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie >>> >>> >>>> Hi Janice >>>> >>>> Pinkie is a district of Musselburgh. I used to pass through >>>> Musselburgh >>>> fairly frequently when I was a child on the way to see my Grandmother >>>> in >>>> North Berwick. >>>> >>>> I googled "Pinkie" and there were several references to St Peter's >>>> Primary >>>> School. >>>> >>>> To go back to the Montgomery family. There were a few Montgomeries in >>>> Musselburgh in the 1901 Census. I did a bit of searching yesterday and >>>> looked up marriages between Montgomery (male) and Brown (female) in >>>> "Inveresk and Musselburgh". Between 1900 and 1932 there was one >>>> marriage - >>>> between Andrew Montgomery and Alice Brown in 1909. He was the son of >>>> George >>>> Montgomery and Agnes Aikman. She was illegitimate, the daughter of >>>> Margaret >>>> Cockburn Brown who had later married Alexander Baptie. Doesn't really >>>> sound >>>> very hopeful. >>>> >>>> There were 3 marriages in the whole of Midlothian between Male >>>> Montgomeries >>>> and Female Browns. Apart from George and Agnes above, there was 1 in >>>> the >>>> district of St Andrew in Edinburgh in 1917 between James Montgomery, >>>> Bookkeeper, and Annie Brown, daughter of William Brown, Fishmonger, and >>>> Agnes Dickson. Both Annie and James were living in 31 Dudley Crescent, >>>> Leith at the time of the marriage. He was 25 and she was 30. It was a >>>> "marriage by declaration" (a civil marriage) in the presence of William >>>> Gray, Coalminer, and Catherine Brown. >>>> >>>> The 3rd marriage was in Canongate, Edinburgh in 1911 between Hugh >>>> Montgomery >>>> and Christina Isabel Brown. I haven't looked at the image. >>>> >>>> I also looked at births of Montgomery female children in between 1909 >>>> and >>>> 1930 in "Inveresk and Musselburgh". There were 13 listed, as follows: >>>> 1909 Margaret Brown >>>> 1909 Violet Naysmith >>>> 1910 Agnes Begbie >>>> 1911 Annie Bryden >>>> 1913 Sarah Bowman >>>> 1917 Catherine >>>> 1913 Jessie Robertson >>>> 1920 Annie >>>> 1921 Margaret Davina >>>> 1921 Jemima Barr >>>> 1922 Janet Moffatt >>>> 1924 Jean >>>> 1930 Elizabeth >>>> (there are no images on Scotlands People for these births). >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1670 - Release Date: 9/13/2008 > 12:50 PM > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Listers I use Family Tree Maker. A friend who has recently become addicted to genealogy has asked me if there are any free software programmes that she can download. Do any of you know of any that you can recommend? Many thanks in advance Ella Ross, Sydney