Good morning/evening Janice Forget my comment about the butcher's assistant; I wasn't thinking straight when I asked that question. However I have been thinking about Eva's birth certificate. Have you seen a copy of the Scottish birth certificate, or was the information relayed to you? It is most unusual on Scottish birth certificates to name the occupation of the mother's father. I have seen other birth certificates for illegitimate births where only the name of the mother is given, and they have not specified the maternal grandfather's occupation. Another thing: illegitimate births were noted as such on Scottish birth certificates, in the first column, headed "Name and Surname" although I imagine they have stopped this rather cruel practice now. By the time that Eva was born, her grandfather John Brown had progressed to being a butcher rather than a butcher's assistant which he had been when his daughter Ann Milne Brown was born, and which is named as his occupation on Ann's birth certificate. Mary Knowles father was a butcher just some doors down from where he lived at the time he married Mary, and I expect he probably worked as an assistant to his future father-in-law. Regards Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janice Doughty" <adoughty01@optusnet.com.au> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie > Good morning Rhoda, > > What a wealth of information, and some of its looks really very promising. > Thank you so much for all this family research you have carried out. I am > now going to study it very carefully. Also, your question could Ann's > mother be the 'Butcher's Assistant"? I suppose so, as she does not say > mother or father, just "...daughter of a butcher's assistant..." > > Once I hear back from Bob, I will let you know what he intends to do, with > all this information you and other Listers have been so generous > providing. > > Regards, > Janice > Belrose - Sydney > Australia > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> > To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 7:25 PM > Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie > > >> Hi Janice >> >> Pinkie is a district of Musselburgh. I used to pass through Musselburgh >> fairly frequently when I was a child on the way to see my Grandmother in >> North Berwick. >> >> I googled "Pinkie" and there were several references to St Peter's >> Primary >> School. >> >> To go back to the Montgomery family. There were a few Montgomeries in >> Musselburgh in the 1901 Census. I did a bit of searching yesterday and >> looked up marriages between Montgomery (male) and Brown (female) in >> "Inveresk and Musselburgh". Between 1900 and 1932 there was one >> marriage - >> between Andrew Montgomery and Alice Brown in 1909. He was the son of >> George >> Montgomery and Agnes Aikman. She was illegitimate, the daughter of >> Margaret >> Cockburn Brown who had later married Alexander Baptie. Doesn't really >> sound >> very hopeful. >> >> There were 3 marriages in the whole of Midlothian between Male >> Montgomeries >> and Female Browns. Apart from George and Agnes above, there was 1 in the >> district of St Andrew in Edinburgh in 1917 between James Montgomery, >> Bookkeeper, and Annie Brown, daughter of William Brown, Fishmonger, and >> Agnes Dickson. Both Annie and James were living in 31 Dudley Crescent, >> Leith at the time of the marriage. He was 25 and she was 30. It was a >> "marriage by declaration" (a civil marriage) in the presence of William >> Gray, Coalminer, and Catherine Brown. >> >> The 3rd marriage was in Canongate, Edinburgh in 1911 between Hugh >> Montgomery >> and Christina Isabel Brown. I haven't looked at the image. >> >> I also looked at births of Montgomery female children in between 1909 and >> 1930 in "Inveresk and Musselburgh". There were 13 listed, as follows: >> 1909 Margaret Brown >> 1909 Violet Naysmith >> 1910 Agnes Begbie >> 1911 Annie Bryden >> 1913 Sarah Bowman >> 1917 Catherine >> 1913 Jessie Robertson >> 1920 Annie >> 1921 Margaret Davina >> 1921 Jemima Barr >> 1922 Janet Moffatt >> 1924 Jean >> 1930 Elizabeth >> (there are no images on Scotlands People for these births). >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Keep in mind that Eva being born at 86 Grove Street doesn't necessarily mean that Ann Milne Brown lived there. It could be the address of the midwife who delivered the baby. We can't really make assumptions that any of the Browns living at 86 Grove Street were related especially since Brown is such a common name. I know from experience that you can easily end up "pursuing an untamed ornithoid without cause" (sorry, I couldn't resist a Star Trek reference - that means a wild goose chase). Jacquie Winnipeg, MB Canada -----Original Message----- From: sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Janice Doughty Sent: September 14, 2008 4:32 PM To: sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Annie Brown &James Montgomery Hi Jacquie, They mystery however, is that "Ann" gives the address where Eva was born 86 Grove Street, Edinburgh, where Browns were living at the time of the 1901 Census. Regards, Janice Belrose - Sydney Australia

I saw that marriage registration as well but the age for Annie Brown is actually 20, not 30. I confirmed that by finding Annie Brown with her parents on the 1901 census in East Lothian and she was only 4 years old. After finding the census entry, I re-examined her age and the 2 does look like a 3 but when you compare it to the 2 in James' age, it looks more like that than the 3s found on the page. Jacquie -----Original Message----- From: sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CandROverson Sent: September 14, 2008 4:25 AM To: sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie Apart from George and Agnes above, there was 1 in the district of St Andrew in Edinburgh in 1917 between James Montgomery, Bookkeeper, and Annie Brown, daughter of William Brown, Fishmonger, and Agnes Dickson. Both Annie and James were living in 31 Dudley Crescent, Leith at the time of the marriage. He was 25 and she was 30. It was a "marriage by declaration" (a civil marriage) in the presence of William Gray, Coalminer, and Catherine Brown.

Hi everyone, I have just sent off all the information, which so many of you have sent me regarding this Brown family. Why, why did they not have a really rare name that stands out like a beacon. I was just reading down through the emails that Bob has sent me about his family in Scotland and what he could remember his mother told him, and I missed one very important piece of information. I did retain the information that Eva attended school in Musselburgh, but missed completely the strange name of the school, Pinkie School. "...I know my mother attended school in Musselburgh as she mentioned on a number of occasions Pinkie School, which is still in existence..." Does anyone know anything about this Pinkie School? Regards, Janice Down Under

Hi Janice I can't remember if anyone else has mentioned this, but do you think that the "Butcher's Assistant" mentioned below could be the mother of Annie Milne Brown, rather than the father. She may have been illegitimate herself. Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janice Doughty" <adoughty01@optusnet.com.au> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:39 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles > Good morning Jacquie, > > Here is the exact wording on the birth certificate of Eva: - > > Name and Surname: - Eva Christian BROWN. > > When and Where born: - 1909 December, Twenty fourth 3 hour, 30 mins at 86 > Grove Street, Edinburgh. > > Name, Surname and Rank or Profession of father. > Name and maiden Surname of Mother. > Date and Place of Marriage > No father's name given > ANN MILNE BROWN - daughter of a butcher's assistant. > > Signature and Qualification of Informant etc: - > (Signed) > Ann Milne Brown - Mother > > When and Where Registered and Signature of Registrar: - > 1910 - January at Edinburgh (Signed) W.Cowan ???? - Registrar. > > ***** > > John Brown Snr who married Mary Knowles in 1879 - had four known children, > John Brown born circa 1880, Mary H Brown born circa 1883, Ann Milne Brown > b. > 28 May 1885 and died 16th Feb 1886, and Alexander Brown born circa 1890 > all > in Edinburgh. > > Now the John Brown 23 you have married to Ann Brown (nee Pearson) in the > 1901 Census living at 86 Grove Street, Edinburgh must be the eldest > brother > and this mysterious Ann Milne Brown was living with them while pregnant, > when she gave birth to Eva in 1909. > > In the 1891 Census, the father John Brown is living in Grove Street (is > there a street # ?) with his wife and family as per Rhoda's email, the > question here is how many children? Just John, Mary and Alexander? Or is > an > Ann there too? Is this mysterious Ann who gave birth to Eva, a daughter > born after the death of the first Ann, and before or after the birth of > brother Alexander in 1890? So the question is, is there an Ann Milne > Brown > anywhere on the 1891 Census? However, she may have been born after 1891 > and > would not be on that Census, though she would have to be on the 1901 > Census > aged around 9 years of age. > > In the 1901 Census we have Widower John Brown (Mary died at the age of 36 > in > 1898) and two of his children Mary 17 (born 1883/84) and Alexander (born > 1890) and they are living in Grove Street. Are they also at 86, with John > and his wife Mary Brown? This John could be a cousin. > > When Bob received a copy of his mother's birth certificate from Scotland > after her death in 1994 in Manly, Sydney (this was required by the Birth, > Deaths and Marriages in New South Wales), this was the first time he saw > the > name of his maternal grandmother, Ann Milne Brown, same name as his > mother's > maiden name and he noted no father's name was given for Eva. This got his > curiosity going and he made a trip back to Scotland, trying to find the > answers. While there he employed an Agency to try and find the answers > and > it was this Agency that put together the family tree: - > > Alexander Brown married Ann Gammond sometime in the 1830s, they had three > known children, Margaret b. 1836, John b. 1839, Isabella born 1841 and > James > Brown b. 1844. > > Son John (b. 1839) married Ann Milne on 21st March 1861, they had two > known > children (there could be more) John Brown b. 1858/60 and Ann Brown b 18th > May 1865. > > Their son John Brown (b. 1858/60) married Mary Knowles 31st Dec 1879 in > Edinburgh. They had four know children, John b. 1880, Mary H b. 1883, Ann > Milne b. 1885 d. 1886 and Alexander Brown b. 1890. > > The Agency did not look for a death of Ann Milne Brown, as they had in > their > hand the birth certificate of Eva, and her mother was Ann Milne Brown the > daughter of a Butcher's assistant, so they had no reason to look for her > death, however we now know if they had done so, they would have found that > the Ann on the birth certificate born in 1885, died at the age of 8 months > in 1886. > > Where to from here? Thank you all for you assistance, I cannot thank you > enough, however we now have a bigger mystery. Who ever the Ann is who > gave > birth to Eva, she is related to these Browns of Grove Street, she must be > as > she is living with them when Eva was born and she definitely claims on her > daughter Eva's birth certificate, that she Ann was the daughter of a > Butcher's assistant. > > I will suggest that Bob join the scotlandpeople Website. > > Regards, > Janice > Belrose - Sydney > Australia > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jacquie" <jjjcmj@mts.net> > To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 6:26 AM > Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles > > >> Does the birth registration for Eva Christian Brown actually say that Ann >> Milne Brown was the >> daughter of a butcher's assistant? Would it be possible for you to >> provide >> the exact wording from >> the parents' names box of Eva Christian Brown's birth registration? >> >>>From Ancestry, on the 1901 census there is the following entry: >> >> 86 Grove Street, St George, Edinburgh >> John Brown, head, age: 23, occupation: railway engine stoker, born: >> Edinburgh >> Annie Brown, wife, age: 23, born: Edinburgh >> >> There is a marriage for a John Brown and Ann Thomson Paterson which took >> place 22 Mar 1901 in St. >> George, Edinburgh. John Brown, age: 23, railway servant, son of David >> Brown, barman and Isabella >> Brown, maiden surname Pearson (I think, difficult to read), usual >> residence 108 Lewiston Place, >> Edinburgh. Ann Thomson Brown, age: 23, rubber worker, daughter of Joseph >> Paterson, house painter and >> Elizabeth Paterson, maiden surname McNaughton, usual residence 80 Grove >> Street, Edinburgh. Ann >> Thomson Paterson Brown died in Glasgow in 1953. >> >> It is possible that this John Brown may be a relation to John Brown, >> butcher who was also at 86 >> Grove Street on the 1901 census. >> >> Jacquie >> Winnipeg, MB >> Canada > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Sheena and Jacquie, I will indeed point out to Bob that by not finding the death of baby Ann Milne Brown in 1886, has for sure thrown the family tree the Agency put together into question. I also feel that the death certificate of Jean Leary (nee Montgomery) may have the answers to all the questions. I am not sure where the story that Ann the mother of Eva immigrated to Canada came from. Maybe, again through the Agency. I will send off some more questions to Bob and also inform him about the new information and the mystery that this information has now created. I note that Eva Christian Brown referred to the girl she grew up with in Musselburgh as her sister and her name was Annie ???. This set bells going off in my head, maybe, just maybe Annie Montgomery (nee ????) was in fact Eva's half sister, and that Annie is named after her mother, the mysterious Ann Milne Brown, who sometime after the birth of Eva married and maybe even to the man who fathered Eva, or someone else altogether. Again, also the man of this household Eva grew up in may have been in action in the 1st WW and did not return. We at least know his surname Montgomery and he was from Musselburgh. I don't think that the lady who called herself Ann Milne Brown in 1910 when registering the birth of her daughter Eva, would be so crafty as to steal the identity of a dead child, claim that this child's father was her father (a Butcher's Assistant) and give the address of the Brown family at 86 Grove Street, Edinburgh. There is an answer to all of this, if only we could see it. Then we also have Ron Brown, who is also on this List, his Grand Aunt, Annie Milne Brown born 1906, was the daughter of John Brown and Janet Scott, they married in South Leith. There must be a connection here, as previously mentioned in another email to Ann Milne who married John Brown on 21st March 1861 in Edinburgh. If anything new comes up, for sure I will let you know. I will now send off this information to Bob and wait for his reaction. Regards, Janice Belrose - Sydney Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Ireland" <ireland@pavilion.co.uk> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles > Ann Milne BROWN could easily have been born to John BROWN & Mary KNOWLES > after the 1891 census, presumably without the "Milne" recorded on her > birth > registration or someone would have noticed it by now. > While Eva Christian BROWN's mother may have lied on the birth registration > because she didn't want to be connected to an illegitimate birth, given > that > the baby was illegitimate, it would seem a bit pointless. > I think the possibility that Eva was brought up by Ann's sister Mary is > worth considering. > As to no reference to a father, WWI started before Eva was very old, so > the > man of the house would likely be away and possibly never returned. > I agree that the work of the Agency was pathetic! > Please do tell us what it says on Jean LEARY nee MONTGOMERY's death > certificate! > Best wishes, > Sheena Ireland > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Good morning There is a school at Pinkie House run by the Loreto Nuns. If you Google Pinkie House you will find a great deal of info on it. regards Eric

Hi Janice Pinkie is a district of Musselburgh. I used to pass through Musselburgh fairly frequently when I was a child on the way to see my Grandmother in North Berwick. I googled "Pinkie" and there were several references to St Peter's Primary School. To go back to the Montgomery family. There were a few Montgomeries in Musselburgh in the 1901 Census. I did a bit of searching yesterday and looked up marriages between Montgomery (male) and Brown (female) in "Inveresk and Musselburgh". Between 1900 and 1932 there was one marriage - between Andrew Montgomery and Alice Brown in 1909. He was the son of George Montgomery and Agnes Aikman. She was illegitimate, the daughter of Margaret Cockburn Brown who had later married Alexander Baptie. Doesn't really sound very hopeful. There were 3 marriages in the whole of Midlothian between Male Montgomeries and Female Browns. Apart from George and Agnes above, there was 1 in the district of St Andrew in Edinburgh in 1917 between James Montgomery, Bookkeeper, and Annie Brown, daughter of William Brown, Fishmonger, and Agnes Dickson. Both Annie and James were living in 31 Dudley Crescent, Leith at the time of the marriage. He was 25 and she was 30. It was a "marriage by declaration" (a civil marriage) in the presence of William Gray, Coalminer, and Catherine Brown. The 3rd marriage was in Canongate, Edinburgh in 1911 between Hugh Montgomery and Christina Isabel Brown. I haven't looked at the image. I also looked at births of Montgomery female children in between 1909 and 1930 in "Inveresk and Musselburgh". There were 13 listed, as follows: 1909 Margaret Brown 1909 Violet Naysmith 1910 Agnes Begbie 1911 Annie Bryden 1913 Sarah Bowman 1917 Catherine 1913 Jessie Robertson 1920 Annie 1921 Margaret Davina 1921 Jemima Barr 1922 Janet Moffatt 1924 Jean 1930 Elizabeth (there are no images on Scotlands People for these births). - Original Message ----- From: "Janice Doughty" <adoughty01@optusnet.com.au> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:18 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles > Hi everyone, > > I have just sent off all the information, which so many of you have sent > me > regarding this Brown family. Why, why did they not have a really rare > name > that stands out like a beacon. > > I was just reading down through the emails that Bob has sent me about his > family in Scotland and what he could remember his mother told him, and I > missed one very important piece of information. I did retain the > information > that Eva attended school in Musselburgh, but missed completely the strange > name of the school, Pinkie School. > > "...I know my mother attended school in Musselburgh as she mentioned on a > number of occasions Pinkie School, which is still in existence..." > > Does anyone know anything about this Pinkie School? > > Regards, > Janice > Down Under > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Good morning Jacquie, Here is the exact wording on the birth certificate of Eva: - Name and Surname: - Eva Christian BROWN. When and Where born: - 1909 December, Twenty fourth 3 hour, 30 mins at 86 Grove Street, Edinburgh. Name, Surname and Rank or Profession of father. Name and maiden Surname of Mother. Date and Place of Marriage No father's name given ANN MILNE BROWN - daughter of a butcher's assistant. Signature and Qualification of Informant etc: - (Signed) Ann Milne Brown - Mother When and Where Registered and Signature of Registrar: - 1910 - January at Edinburgh (Signed) W.Cowan ???? - Registrar. ***** John Brown Snr who married Mary Knowles in 1879 - had four known children, John Brown born circa 1880, Mary H Brown born circa 1883, Ann Milne Brown b. 28 May 1885 and died 16th Feb 1886, and Alexander Brown born circa 1890 all in Edinburgh. Now the John Brown 23 you have married to Ann Brown (nee Pearson) in the 1901 Census living at 86 Grove Street, Edinburgh must be the eldest brother and this mysterious Ann Milne Brown was living with them while pregnant, when she gave birth to Eva in 1909. In the 1891 Census, the father John Brown is living in Grove Street (is there a street # ?) with his wife and family as per Rhoda's email, the question here is how many children? Just John, Mary and Alexander? Or is an Ann there too? Is this mysterious Ann who gave birth to Eva, a daughter born after the death of the first Ann, and before or after the birth of brother Alexander in 1890? So the question is, is there an Ann Milne Brown anywhere on the 1891 Census? However, she may have been born after 1891 and would not be on that Census, though she would have to be on the 1901 Census aged around 9 years of age. In the 1901 Census we have Widower John Brown (Mary died at the age of 36 in 1898) and two of his children Mary 17 (born 1883/84) and Alexander (born 1890) and they are living in Grove Street. Are they also at 86, with John and his wife Mary Brown? This John could be a cousin. When Bob received a copy of his mother's birth certificate from Scotland after her death in 1994 in Manly, Sydney (this was required by the Birth, Deaths and Marriages in New South Wales), this was the first time he saw the name of his maternal grandmother, Ann Milne Brown, same name as his mother's maiden name and he noted no father's name was given for Eva. This got his curiosity going and he made a trip back to Scotland, trying to find the answers. While there he employed an Agency to try and find the answers and it was this Agency that put together the family tree: - Alexander Brown married Ann Gammond sometime in the 1830s, they had three known children, Margaret b. 1836, John b. 1839, Isabella born 1841 and James Brown b. 1844. Son John (b. 1839) married Ann Milne on 21st March 1861, they had two known children (there could be more) John Brown b. 1858/60 and Ann Brown b 18th May 1865. Their son John Brown (b. 1858/60) married Mary Knowles 31st Dec 1879 in Edinburgh. They had four know children, John b. 1880, Mary H b. 1883, Ann Milne b. 1885 d. 1886 and Alexander Brown b. 1890. The Agency did not look for a death of Ann Milne Brown, as they had in their hand the birth certificate of Eva, and her mother was Ann Milne Brown the daughter of a Butcher's assistant, so they had no reason to look for her death, however we now know if they had done so, they would have found that the Ann on the birth certificate born in 1885, died at the age of 8 months in 1886. Where to from here? Thank you all for you assistance, I cannot thank you enough, however we now have a bigger mystery. Who ever the Ann is who gave birth to Eva, she is related to these Browns of Grove Street, she must be as she is living with them when Eva was born and she definitely claims on her daughter Eva's birth certificate, that she Ann was the daughter of a Butcher's assistant. I will suggest that Bob join the scotlandpeople Website. Regards, Janice Belrose - Sydney Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacquie" <jjjcmj@mts.net> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles > Does the birth registration for Eva Christian Brown actually say that Ann > Milne Brown was the > daughter of a butcher's assistant? Would it be possible for you to provide > the exact wording from > the parents' names box of Eva Christian Brown's birth registration? > >>From Ancestry, on the 1901 census there is the following entry: > > 86 Grove Street, St George, Edinburgh > John Brown, head, age: 23, occupation: railway engine stoker, born: > Edinburgh > Annie Brown, wife, age: 23, born: Edinburgh > > There is a marriage for a John Brown and Ann Thomson Paterson which took > place 22 Mar 1901 in St. > George, Edinburgh. John Brown, age: 23, railway servant, son of David > Brown, barman and Isabella > Brown, maiden surname Pearson (I think, difficult to read), usual > residence 108 Lewiston Place, > Edinburgh. Ann Thomson Brown, age: 23, rubber worker, daughter of Joseph > Paterson, house painter and > Elizabeth Paterson, maiden surname McNaughton, usual residence 80 Grove > Street, Edinburgh. Ann > Thomson Paterson Brown died in Glasgow in 1953. > > It is possible that this John Brown may be a relation to John Brown, > butcher who was also at 86 > Grove Street on the 1901 census. > > Jacquie > Winnipeg, MB > Canada

Ann Milne BROWN could easily have been born to John BROWN & Mary KNOWLES after the 1891 census, presumably without the "Milne" recorded on her birth registration or someone would have noticed it by now. While Eva Christian BROWN's mother may have lied on the birth registration because she didn't want to be connected to an illegitimate birth, given that the baby was illegitimate, it would seem a bit pointless. I think the possibility that Eva was brought up by Ann's sister Mary is worth considering. As to no reference to a father, WWI started before Eva was very old, so the man of the house would likely be away and possibly never returned. I agree that the work of the Agency was pathetic! Please do tell us what it says on Jean LEARY nee MONTGOMERY's death certificate! Best wishes, Sheena Ireland

Hi Rhoda, Yes, Bob did have that information regarding Mary Brown (nee Knowles) that she died on 29th January 1898 at the age of 38. Mary Brown (nee Knowles) had four known children John born circa 1880, Mary H born circa 1883, Ann Milne born 1884 and Alexander Brown born circa 1890. So if baby Ann Milne Brown died as an 8 month old, she would not be on the 1891 Census. So was there another daughter named Ann Milne Brown born to this couple? Or is there another Ann Milne Brown lurking in the background around this time? On a visit back to the Old Dart, Bob was able to obtain a copy of Anne Milne Brown's birth certificate, and that is how he knew that the Anne born in 1885 was the daughter of Butcher's Assistant. Then we have the birth certificate of Eva Christian Brown on 24th December 1909 (Bob's mother) and on this certificate her mother's names is Ann Milne Brown and she is the daughter of a Butcher's Assistant, however this does not appear to be so. Then who is she?. The certificate is signed by Ann Milne Brown - Mother. Did the Brown family take in an orphan girl and give her the name of their dead daughter? Who else was in the house at the time of the 1891 Census? This is a real Agatha Christie mystery. I know when I inform Bob that the person who he believed was his maternal grandmother actually died at the age of 8 months, is going to put him into a real spin. That also includes me. Regards, Janice Belrose - Sydney Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles > Hi Janice > > Mary Knowles died in Edinburgh in 1898 aged 36. This would fit with the > John Brown born Edinburgh c1860, a butcher living in Grove Street, who > appears in the 1891 Census with his wife Mary and family and then in the > 1901 census without his wife, and with two children: Mary,17, and > Alexander,11. Another son, John, who appeared in the 1891 Census aged 11, > is > no longer living with his father in 1901. > > May I ask how you know that Bob's Grandmother, Annie, was the daughter of > a > "butcher's assistant"? And what made you think that she was the daughter > of > John Brown and Mary Knowles? > > Rhoda > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Rhoda, My error again. I should not rush abd read very carefully before I post to the List, I was multi tasking at the time. I have been working on another family where Mary is the main character. The lady who gave birth to Eva Christian Brown, was in fact ANN Milne Brown not a Mary and was the daughter of John Brown a Butcher's Apprentice and was living at 86 Grove Street, Edinburgh. I am really making some boo boos this evening. Sorry about that. Regards, Janice Belrose -Sydney Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] MYSTERY OF EVA CHRISTIAN BROWN > Hi Janice > > I suggest that Mary Milne Brown may be another daughter of John Brown and > his wife Mary. > > Rhoda > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janice Doughty" <adoughty01@optusnet.com.au> > To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:53 AM > Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] MYSTERY OF EVA CHRISTIAN BROWN > > >> Good evening Jackie, >> >> Well, this has really put the cat amongst the pigeons. Thank you so very, >> very much for this information and the copy of baby Ann's death >> registration, however the plot thickens and the mystery just gets deeper. >> >> We can see now that Ann Milne Brown born 28th May 1885 to John Brown >> Butcher's Assistance and Mary Brown (nee Knowles) of 6 Chalmers Building, >> Edinburgh, died at the age of 8 months of Tubercular Meningitis. >> >> Then who is Mary Milne Brown, daughter of a Butcher's Assistant, of 86 >> Grove Street, Edinburgh who gave birth out of wedlock to Eva Christian >> Brown >> on 24th December 1909. >> >> I have noticed in carrying out family research on both my side of the >> family >> and my husband's here in Australia, when a son or daughter died as an >> infant, the next boy or girl born to the couple would be named after the >> deceased sibling. I note my great grandfather John Nadin, named everyone >> of >> his sons, John however they were always called and known by their second >> Christian name. I think back in those days, parents were ready to accept >> the death of their children in infancy and were more than thankful for >> those >> who did survive. >> >> Once again, Jackie thank you so much for this information. I know Bob is >> going to be very perplexed over this new information. Yes, also you are >> correct I did have the incorrect year of birth, got mother and daughter's >> year of birth mixed up. >> >> Regards, >> Janice >> Belrose-Sydney >> Australia >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jacquie" <jjjcmj@mts.net> >> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:29 PM >> Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] MYSTERY OF EVA CHRISTIAN BROWN >> >> >>> I'm assuming that your reference to Ann Milne Brown being born in 1909 >>> is >>> a typo and that was the >>> year her daughter was born. I re-read your original posts and I'm afraid >>> I >>> have some bad news. You >>> indicated before that the Ann Milne Brown you are looking for was born >>> 28 >>> May 1885 to John Brown, >>> butcher's assistant and Mary Knowles and her place of birth was 6 >>> Chalmers >>> Building, Edinburgh. I >>> found a death registration at ScotlandsPeople for Ann Milne Brown, >>> daughter of John Brown, butcher's >>> assistant and Mary Knowles who died 16 Feb 1886 at the age of 8 months. >>> Her place of death is listed >>> as 6 Chalmers Building. It does appear that a different Ann Milne Brown >>> was the mother of Eva >>> Christian Brown. >>> >>> Jacquie >>> Winnipeg, MB >>> Canada >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com >>> [mailto:sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of >>> Janice Doughty >>> Sent: September 12, 2008 7:26 PM >>> To: sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: [SCT-EDINBURGH] MYSTERY OF EVA CHRISTIAN BROWN >>> >>> Good morning Listers, >>> >>> Many Listers responded to my query a couple of weeks ago about Ann Milne >>> Brown, born 1909 in Edinburgh to John Brown and Mary Knowles. She is not >>> the >>> same Ann Milne Brown who Ron Brown is making enquires about on the List, >>> though I do think that there is a connection somewhere. Maybe, the Ann >>> I >>> am >>> seeking is either an Aunt or a cousin of Ron's Ann. The common link >>> maybe >>> through the marriage of John Brown Snr to Ann Milne on 21st March 1861. >>> This >>> Ann Brown (nee Milne) was my Ann Milne Brown's paternal grandmother. >>> Hope >>> that is not too confusing. >>> >>>\ >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Good evening Jackie, Well, this has really put the cat amongst the pigeons. Thank you so very, very much for this information and the copy of baby Ann's death registration, however the plot thickens and the mystery just gets deeper. We can see now that Ann Milne Brown born 28th May 1885 to John Brown Butcher's Assistance and Mary Brown (nee Knowles) of 6 Chalmers Building, Edinburgh, died at the age of 8 months of Tubercular Meningitis. Then who is Mary Milne Brown, daughter of a Butcher's Assistant, of 86 Grove Street, Edinburgh who gave birth out of wedlock to Eva Christian Brown on 24th December 1909. I have noticed in carrying out family research on both my side of the family and my husband's here in Australia, when a son or daughter died as an infant, the next boy or girl born to the couple would be named after the deceased sibling. I note my great grandfather John Nadin, named everyone of his sons, John however they were always called and known by their second Christian name. I think back in those days, parents were ready to accept the death of their children in infancy and were more than thankful for those who did survive. Once again, Jackie thank you so much for this information. I know Bob is going to be very perplexed over this new information. Yes, also you are correct I did have the incorrect year of birth, got mother and daughter's year of birth mixed up. Regards, Janice Belrose-Sydney Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacquie" <jjjcmj@mts.net> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] MYSTERY OF EVA CHRISTIAN BROWN > I'm assuming that your reference to Ann Milne Brown being born in 1909 is > a typo and that was the > year her daughter was born. I re-read your original posts and I'm afraid I > have some bad news. You > indicated before that the Ann Milne Brown you are looking for was born 28 > May 1885 to John Brown, > butcher's assistant and Mary Knowles and her place of birth was 6 Chalmers > Building, Edinburgh. I > found a death registration at ScotlandsPeople for Ann Milne Brown, > daughter of John Brown, butcher's > assistant and Mary Knowles who died 16 Feb 1886 at the age of 8 months. > Her place of death is listed > as 6 Chalmers Building. It does appear that a different Ann Milne Brown > was the mother of Eva > Christian Brown. > > Jacquie > Winnipeg, MB > Canada > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > Janice Doughty > Sent: September 12, 2008 7:26 PM > To: sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SCT-EDINBURGH] MYSTERY OF EVA CHRISTIAN BROWN > > Good morning Listers, > > Many Listers responded to my query a couple of weeks ago about Ann Milne > Brown, born 1909 in Edinburgh to John Brown and Mary Knowles. She is not > the > same Ann Milne Brown who Ron Brown is making enquires about on the List, > though I do think that there is a connection somewhere. Maybe, the Ann I > am > seeking is either an Aunt or a cousin of Ron's Ann. The common link maybe > through the marriage of John Brown Snr to Ann Milne on 21st March 1861. > This > Ann Brown (nee Milne) was my Ann Milne Brown's paternal grandmother. Hope > that is not too confusing. > >\

I don't think the John Brown who was at 86 Grove Street on the 1901 census is the same John Brown who was the son of John Brown, butcher. The marriage registration for John Brown to Ann Paterson indicated his parents were David Brown, barman and Isabella Pearson. It is possible they were related but then again Brown is such a common name that they may not be related at all and it was just a coincidence that they were living at the same address. I found a marriage registration for David Brown to Isabella Pearson and it indicates his parents were John Brown, coal merchant and Crawford Taylor. It seems possible that Eva Christian Brown's mother lied on the birth registration because she didn't want to be connected to an illegitimate birth. If that's the case, the mystery might never be solved except that you would have to suspect that the birth mother may have been a relative of Ann Milne Brown in order to have known about her. Personally, I think Bob should demand a refund from the agency he hired. They did shoddy work, in my opinion, by not checking to see if they had the correct Ann Milne Brown. It would have taken them less than 5 minutes to find the death registration if they had looked and they should have looked. That mistake brings the entire family tree they created into question because they can't link Eva Christian Brown to a child of John Brown and Mary Knowles. As things stand now, there is no proof of a relationship. Personally, if I were Bob, I would disregard this agency's work and start from scratch. Jacquie Winnipeg, MB Canada -----Original Message----- From: sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Janice Doughty Sent: September 13, 2008 5:40 PM To: sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles Good morning Jacquie, Here is the exact wording on the birth certificate of Eva: - Name and Surname: - Eva Christian BROWN. When and Where born: - 1909 December, Twenty fourth 3 hour, 30 mins at 86 Grove Street, Edinburgh. Name, Surname and Rank or Profession of father. Name and maiden Surname of Mother. Date and Place of Marriage No father's name given ANN MILNE BROWN - daughter of a butcher's assistant. Signature and Qualification of Informant etc: - (Signed) Ann Milne Brown - Mother When and Where Registered and Signature of Registrar: - 1910 - January at Edinburgh (Signed) W.Cowan ???? - Registrar. ***** John Brown Snr who married Mary Knowles in 1879 - had four known children, John Brown born circa 1880, Mary H Brown born circa 1883, Ann Milne Brown b. 28 May 1885 and died 16th Feb 1886, and Alexander Brown born circa 1890 all in Edinburgh. Now the John Brown 23 you have married to Ann Brown (nee Pearson) in the 1901 Census living at 86 Grove Street, Edinburgh must be the eldest brother and this mysterious Ann Milne Brown was living with them while pregnant, when she gave birth to Eva in 1909. In the 1891 Census, the father John Brown is living in Grove Street (is there a street # ?) with his wife and family as per Rhoda's email, the question here is how many children? Just John, Mary and Alexander? Or is an Ann there too? Is this mysterious Ann who gave birth to Eva, a daughter born after the death of the first Ann, and before or after the birth of brother Alexander in 1890? So the question is, is there an Ann Milne Brown anywhere on the 1891 Census? However, she may have been born after 1891 and would not be on that Census, though she would have to be on the 1901 Census aged around 9 years of age. In the 1901 Census we have Widower John Brown (Mary died at the age of 36 in 1898) and two of his children Mary 17 (born 1883/84) and Alexander (born 1890) and they are living in Grove Street. Are they also at 86, with John and his wife Mary Brown? This John could be a cousin. When Bob received a copy of his mother's birth certificate from Scotland after her death in 1994 in Manly, Sydney (this was required by the Birth, Deaths and Marriages in New South Wales), this was the first time he saw the name of his maternal grandmother, Ann Milne Brown, same name as his mother's maiden name and he noted no father's name was given for Eva. This got his curiosity going and he made a trip back to Scotland, trying to find the answers. While there he employed an Agency to try and find the answers and it was this Agency that put together the family tree: - Alexander Brown married Ann Gammond sometime in the 1830s, they had three known children, Margaret b. 1836, John b. 1839, Isabella born 1841 and James Brown b. 1844. Son John (b. 1839) married Ann Milne on 21st March 1861, they had two known children (there could be more) John Brown b. 1858/60 and Ann Brown b 18th May 1865. Their son John Brown (b. 1858/60) married Mary Knowles 31st Dec 1879 in Edinburgh. They had four know children, John b. 1880, Mary H b. 1883, Ann Milne b. 1885 d. 1886 and Alexander Brown b. 1890. The Agency did not look for a death of Ann Milne Brown, as they had in their hand the birth certificate of Eva, and her mother was Ann Milne Brown the daughter of a Butcher's assistant, so they had no reason to look for her death, however we now know if they had done so, they would have found that the Ann on the birth certificate born in 1885, died at the age of 8 months in 1886. Where to from here? Thank you all for you assistance, I cannot thank you enough, however we now have a bigger mystery. Who ever the Ann is who gave birth to Eva, she is related to these Browns of Grove Street, she must be as she is living with them when Eva was born and she definitely claims on her daughter Eva's birth certificate, that she Ann was the daughter of a Butcher's assistant. I will suggest that Bob join the scotlandpeople Website. Regards, Janice Belrose - Sydney Australia

Does the birth registration for Eva Christian Brown actually say that Ann Milne Brown was the daughter of a butcher's assistant? Would it be possible for you to provide the exact wording from the parents' names box of Eva Christian Brown's birth registration? >From Ancestry, on the 1901 census there is the following entry: 86 Grove Street, St George, Edinburgh John Brown, head, age: 23, occupation: railway engine stoker, born: Edinburgh Annie Brown, wife, age: 23, born: Edinburgh There is a marriage for a John Brown and Ann Thomson Paterson which took place 22 Mar 1901 in St. George, Edinburgh. John Brown, age: 23, railway servant, son of David Brown, barman and Isabella Brown, maiden surname Pearson (I think, difficult to read), usual residence 108 Lewiston Place, Edinburgh. Ann Thomson Brown, age: 23, rubber worker, daughter of Joseph Paterson, house painter and Elizabeth Paterson, maiden surname McNaughton, usual residence 80 Grove Street, Edinburgh. Ann Thomson Paterson Brown died in Glasgow in 1953. It is possible that this John Brown may be a relation to John Brown, butcher who was also at 86 Grove Street on the 1901 census. Jacquie Winnipeg, MB Canada -----Original Message----- From: sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Janice Doughty Sent: September 13, 2008 7:58 AM To: sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles Hi Rhoda, On a visit back to the Old Dart, Bob was able to obtain a copy of Anne Milne Brown's birth certificate, and that is how he knew that the Anne born in 1885 was the daughter of Butcher's Assistant. Then we have the birth certificate of Eva Christian Brown on 24th December 1909 (Bob's mother) and on this certificate her mother's names is Ann Milne Brown and she is the daughter of a Butcher's Assistant, however this does not appear to be so. Then who is she?. The certificate is signed by Ann Milne Brown - Mother. Regards, Janice Belrose - Sydney Australia

Hi Janice, Last post from me on this, you will be glad to know! Jean Leary nee Montgomery died in Edinburgh in 2003 aged 79. There is no image of the death certificate on Scotlands People, but you can order it. And it should answer a lot of your questions. It should give you the names of both her parents, together with the maiden name of her mother. Go to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk . Look up Death of Jean Montgomery 2003 and hey presto, you will find it on the index (it will cost you 1 credit to do this) together with an Order link to enable you to order a copy of the certificate. I think the certificate will cost you around £10, but cheap at the price. Best wishes Rhoda p.s you will need to register (free) but in order to view the index and any certificates you will need to purchase a minimum of 30 credits at a cost of £6 sterling, payable by credit card.

Hi Janice Mary Knowles died in Edinburgh in 1898 aged 36. This would fit with the John Brown born Edinburgh c1860, a butcher living in Grove Street, who appears in the 1891 Census with his wife Mary and family and then in the 1901 census without his wife, and with two children: Mary,17, and Alexander,11. Another son, John, who appeared in the 1891 Census aged 11, is no longer living with his father in 1901. May I ask how you know that Bob's Grandmother, Annie, was the daughter of a "butcher's assistant"? And what made you think that she was the daughter of John Brown and Mary Knowles? Rhoda

Hi again, Janice On second thoughts, did you mean to type "Annie Milne Brown" rather than "Mary Milne Brown"? In which case ignore my earlier email (See your 3rd para below). It may be that your Annie Brown added the family name "Milne" to her name when she was older, and that her birth would be registered under the name of Ann Brown. I have instances of this in my family. Have you looked for her in the 1901 Census? Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janice Doughty" <adoughty01@optusnet.com.au> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] MYSTERY OF EVA CHRISTIAN BROWN > Good evening Jackie, > > Well, this has really put the cat amongst the pigeons. Thank you so very, > very much for this information and the copy of baby Ann's death > registration, however the plot thickens and the mystery just gets deeper. > > We can see now that Ann Milne Brown born 28th May 1885 to John Brown > Butcher's Assistance and Mary Brown (nee Knowles) of 6 Chalmers Building, > Edinburgh, died at the age of 8 months of Tubercular Meningitis. > > Then who is Mary Milne Brown, daughter of a Butcher's Assistant, of 86 > Grove Street, Edinburgh who gave birth out of wedlock to Eva Christian > Brown > on 24th December 1909. > > I have noticed in carrying out family research on both my side of the > family > and my husband's here in Australia, when a son or daughter died as an > infant, the next boy or girl born to the couple would be named after the > deceased sibling. I note my great grandfather John Nadin, named everyone > of > his sons, John however they were always called and known by their second > Christian name. I think back in those days, parents were ready to accept > the death of their children in infancy and were more than thankful for > those > who did survive. > > Once again, Jackie thank you so much for this information. I know Bob is > going to be very perplexed over this new information. Yes, also you are > correct I did have the incorrect year of birth, got mother and daughter's > year of birth mixed up. > > Regards, > Janice > Belrose-Sydney > Australia > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jacquie" <jjjcmj@mts.net> > To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:29 PM > Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] MYSTERY OF EVA CHRISTIAN BROWN > > >> I'm assuming that your reference to Ann Milne Brown being born in 1909 is >> a typo and that was the >> year her daughter was born. I re-read your original posts and I'm afraid >> I >> have some bad news. You >> indicated before that the Ann Milne Brown you are looking for was born 28 >> May 1885 to John Brown, >> butcher's assistant and Mary Knowles and her place of birth was 6 >> Chalmers >> Building, Edinburgh. I >> found a death registration at ScotlandsPeople for Ann Milne Brown, >> daughter of John Brown, butcher's >> assistant and Mary Knowles who died 16 Feb 1886 at the age of 8 months. >> Her place of death is listed >> as 6 Chalmers Building. It does appear that a different Ann Milne Brown >> was the mother of Eva >> Christian Brown. >> >> Jacquie >> Winnipeg, MB >> Canada >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of >> Janice Doughty >> Sent: September 12, 2008 7:26 PM >> To: sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [SCT-EDINBURGH] MYSTERY OF EVA CHRISTIAN BROWN >> >> Good morning Listers, >> >> Many Listers responded to my query a couple of weeks ago about Ann Milne >> Brown, born 1909 in Edinburgh to John Brown and Mary Knowles. She is not >> the >> same Ann Milne Brown who Ron Brown is making enquires about on the List, >> though I do think that there is a connection somewhere. Maybe, the Ann I >> am >> seeking is either an Aunt or a cousin of Ron's Ann. The common link maybe >> through the marriage of John Brown Snr to Ann Milne on 21st March 1861. >> This >> Ann Brown (nee Milne) was my Ann Milne Brown's paternal grandmother. Hope >> that is not too confusing. >> >>\ > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Janice I suggest that Mary Milne Brown may be another daughter of John Brown and his wife Mary. Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janice Doughty" <adoughty01@optusnet.com.au> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] MYSTERY OF EVA CHRISTIAN BROWN > Good evening Jackie, > > Well, this has really put the cat amongst the pigeons. Thank you so very, > very much for this information and the copy of baby Ann's death > registration, however the plot thickens and the mystery just gets deeper. > > We can see now that Ann Milne Brown born 28th May 1885 to John Brown > Butcher's Assistance and Mary Brown (nee Knowles) of 6 Chalmers Building, > Edinburgh, died at the age of 8 months of Tubercular Meningitis. > > Then who is Mary Milne Brown, daughter of a Butcher's Assistant, of 86 > Grove Street, Edinburgh who gave birth out of wedlock to Eva Christian > Brown > on 24th December 1909. > > I have noticed in carrying out family research on both my side of the > family > and my husband's here in Australia, when a son or daughter died as an > infant, the next boy or girl born to the couple would be named after the > deceased sibling. I note my great grandfather John Nadin, named everyone > of > his sons, John however they were always called and known by their second > Christian name. I think back in those days, parents were ready to accept > the death of their children in infancy and were more than thankful for > those > who did survive. > > Once again, Jackie thank you so much for this information. I know Bob is > going to be very perplexed over this new information. Yes, also you are > correct I did have the incorrect year of birth, got mother and daughter's > year of birth mixed up. > > Regards, > Janice > Belrose-Sydney > Australia > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jacquie" <jjjcmj@mts.net> > To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:29 PM > Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] MYSTERY OF EVA CHRISTIAN BROWN > > >> I'm assuming that your reference to Ann Milne Brown being born in 1909 is >> a typo and that was the >> year her daughter was born. I re-read your original posts and I'm afraid >> I >> have some bad news. You >> indicated before that the Ann Milne Brown you are looking for was born 28 >> May 1885 to John Brown, >> butcher's assistant and Mary Knowles and her place of birth was 6 >> Chalmers >> Building, Edinburgh. I >> found a death registration at ScotlandsPeople for Ann Milne Brown, >> daughter of John Brown, butcher's >> assistant and Mary Knowles who died 16 Feb 1886 at the age of 8 months. >> Her place of death is listed >> as 6 Chalmers Building. It does appear that a different Ann Milne Brown >> was the mother of Eva >> Christian Brown. >> >> Jacquie >> Winnipeg, MB >> Canada >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of >> Janice Doughty >> Sent: September 12, 2008 7:26 PM >> To: sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [SCT-EDINBURGH] MYSTERY OF EVA CHRISTIAN BROWN >> >> Good morning Listers, >> >> Many Listers responded to my query a couple of weeks ago about Ann Milne >> Brown, born 1909 in Edinburgh to John Brown and Mary Knowles. She is not >> the >> same Ann Milne Brown who Ron Brown is making enquires about on the List, >> though I do think that there is a connection somewhere. Maybe, the Ann I >> am >> seeking is either an Aunt or a cousin of Ron's Ann. The common link maybe >> through the marriage of John Brown Snr to Ann Milne on 21st March 1861. >> This >> Ann Brown (nee Milne) was my Ann Milne Brown's paternal grandmother. Hope >> that is not too confusing. >> >>\ > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Good morning Listers, Many Listers responded to my query a couple of weeks ago about Ann Milne Brown, born 1909 in Edinburgh to John Brown and Mary Knowles. She is not the same Ann Milne Brown who Ron Brown is making enquires about on the List, though I do think that there is a connection somewhere. Maybe, the Ann I am seeking is either an Aunt or a cousin of Ron's Ann. The common link maybe through the marriage of John Brown Snr to Ann Milne on 21st March 1861. This Ann Brown (nee Milne) was my Ann Milne Brown's paternal grandmother. Hope that is not too confusing. John Brown and Mary Knowles were married on 31st Dec, 1879 in Edinburgh. It was believed that Ann Milne Brown sometime after 1910 immigrated to Canada, though I still have not been able to find her there. She even could have then made her way to the United States. I did some Googling and found that some Milnes did immigrate to Canada and the USA She left behind in Scotland a daughter Eva Christian Brown born 24th December 1909. I am helping Eva's son Bob to try and find his missing grandmother Ann and also to try and find who the family were that raised his mother Eva. Bob remembers his mother telling him that she lived in Musselburgh with a person she referred to as her "mother". Here is Bob's response to an email I sent him requesting more information: - "...I never met the person my mother referred to as her mother, as this person died before I was born (b.26.01.1941). My mother never made any reference to a father. My mother grew up with a person she referred to as her sister. I know her name was Annie Montgomery (which was her married name). Annie had three children, Effie, Jean and Annie. Effie and Jean were married (Jean in 1945) and their names were Dunbar and Leary respectively. The youngest Annie was not married and her surname was Montgomery. I have met all of the above and I know that Annie (Senior) and Effie are deceased. Jean I have had no contact with for at least 30 years and she would be at least 86 if she is still alive. I have had no contact with Annie for nearly 50 years since I left Scotland..." Note at the time Bob was in contact with Jean and Effie, he had no knowledge about his mother's story, which is a shame as he could have had the answers to all his questions. For some reason Bob was not able to find out Annie Montgomery Snr's maiden name, if he had been able to he would have had the surname of the lady who raised Eva Christian Brown. So we are looking for a marriage of an Annie or Ann ????? to a ????? Montgomery. Annie's daughter Jean Montgomery was born circa 1922 as she would be 86 if alive today. She appears to be the youngest of the three daughters, so her mother may have married circa 1918? We also have the surnames names Dunbar and Leary, which are the married names of Annie's sisters, Effie and Jean. There are a few clues here that may help to find out who raised Eva. I have also sent off an email to the Musselburgh Primary School, hoping that around 1915 Eva attended school there. If she did and their records are archived maybe Eva is listed, with her address and the name of the family she was living with. So far I have had not responce. Fingers crossed she did attend school there. Regards, Janice Belrose - Sydney Australia