Hi List We have all been down this path in our research and while to reply is off subject, a little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men. Janet

Hi Rhoda, Sorry for the delay in replying. I suppose Euphemia could have had shady side to her life. However, on all the Electrol Rolls prior she is a Domestic Servant, Assistant House Keeper or a Barmaid. A thought regarding her "private means", this could be the father of Annie Gall Montgomery paying Euphemia maintenance to raise his daughter Annie. I would say that the Annie Montgomery who died in 1922, is close enough to Euphemia's sister Annie's age. Euphemia was born in 1859, so in 1901 she would have been 42, which is correct on the Census, however her sister Annie was born in 1863 and she would have been actually 38, not 32. So Annie could be the mother of Eva Christian Brown, however she would have been 46 when Eva was born in 1909. I don't think we will ever get to the bottom of who Eva's mother was and how Eva came into Euphemia's care. Once again thank you for all you help. Regards, Janice Down Under ----- Original Message ----- From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] MORE ON ANN MILNE BROWN > Hi Janice > > Do you think it is possible that "living on private means" (Euphemia > Montgomery) was a nice way of saying "prostitute"? And if not where did > she > get her money. > > And what happened to Euphemia's sister, Annie (so many Annies!) ? Is it > possible that Eva was this Annie's child? I found the death of an Annie > Montgomery, domestic servant, single, living at 183 Causewayside, > Edinburgh. > She died in the Royal Infirmary, Edinburgh in 1922 aged "57" but > unfortunately no names of parents were given and the informant was the > Hospital Registrar. > > Rhoda > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Good afternoon Listers, I wish to thank Rhoda and Jacquie for their expertise in family research, which has helped to unravel the Ann Milne Brown story. I could not be where I am today with the research material, which has now been sent to Bob, the chappie I have been helping find the history of the woman who gave birth to his mother Eva. Also, what happened to this "Ann Milne Brown" after the birth of baby Eva? Also, I wish to thank others on the List who also made suggestions and offered solutions. However, instead of solving the mystery, there is now a greater one to solve. At the time of Bob's mother Eva's death in Manly, NSW Australia in 1994, he had to obtain his mother's Scottish birth certificate for registering her Death Certificate here in New South Wales. Bob immigrated Down Under from Edinburgh Scotland in 1960, his Widowed mother Eva, followed him in 1961. When he received the copy of Eva's birth certificate for the first time he saw his "grandmother's" name - Ann Milne Brown, however there was no father, and his mother's surname was also Brown, for the first time he realised his mother was illegitimate. Ann Milne Brown declares in the section for Name, Surname and Rank or profession of Father, surname of Mother and date and place of Marriage, just these words, "...Ann Milne Brown daughter of a butcher's assistant...". Bob's curiosity was roused, as the woman who his mother Eva had called "mother" died before he was born, however he knew that they had lived in Musselburgh and that his mother Eva had attended the Pinkie school in Portobello. Rob returned to Edinburgh to try and find out more about the Brown family and he hired a research group in Edinburgh to investigate. They obtained a birth certificate for Ann Milne Brown, plus they set out a family tree tracing the family back four generations. Ann Milne Brown was born on 28th May 1885 to John Brown and Mary Knowles (they had married in Edinburgh on 31st Dec 1879). John Brown was a Butcher's Assistant at the time of his daughter's birth. However, if only the researchers and carried out a search for the death of Ann Milne Brown, they would have found that she died on 16th February in 1886, at the age of 8 months of Tubercular Meningitis. There is no record of another daughter being born to this couple, which they named after their dead baby Ann. So who was this person that was using the name of a dead child, and also using the words "...daughter of a Butcher's Assistant...", which appears on baby Ann's birth and death certificates 23 years before? In 1909 John Brown was a Butcher not a Butcher's Assistant. It appears to be some kind of identity theft, using information from either the birth of death certificate of baby Ann Milne Brown. Also, the story that "Ann Milne Brown" the mother of Eva, had immigrated to Canada around 1910, was a good excuse to explain her disappearing off the planet. Bob remembered an Annie Montgomery, who his mother referred to as her "sister" and also Annie's daughters Effie, Jean and also Annie, who he had met before leaving Scotland. After a lot of detective work by Jacquie in sussing out the Montgomery family, this is what she was able to find. The lady who brought up Eva as her daughter, with her real daughter Annie Gall Montgomery was Euphemia Montgomery. Euphemia was born on 6th May 1859 to Charles Montgomery - Coachman and Harriet Pennycuik at 22 William Street in the District pf St George, Edinburgh. Euphemia Montgomery was one of 8 children, Isabella Connel. b. 857, Euphemia Cummings b. 859, Janet Cummings b.1861, Ann Blackley b.1863, Thomas b.1866, Harriet b.1868, Jane b. 872 and Catherine Montgomery b.1875. In 1881 at the time of the Census, Euphemia and her older sister Isabella Montgomery were in Berwick Upon Tweed in Northumberland, working as Barmaids in a Tea Room owned by their Uncle Christopher Hopper and his wife Isabella Hopper (nee Montgomery a sister of the Isabella and Euphemia's father Charles). No trace can be found of Euphemia in 1891, however on 24th January 1898 Euphemia at the age of 39, gave birth to an illegitimate daughter, Ann Gall Montgomery at 32 Joppa Road, Portobello. I wonder if the middle name Gall is the surname of the baby's unnamed father? In 1901 Euphemia aged 42 is living on private means, Annie her daughter is 3 and Euphemia's younger sister Annie 32 a Domestic Servant are living in the district of St Cuthbert, Edinburgh. Around January 1910, Euphemia Montgomery takes into her care a child by the name of Eva Christian Brown, and brings her up as her own, though Eva kept her name. The daughter of Euphemia, Annie Gall Montgomery had three daughters Effie (Euphemia) Montgomery b. circa 1922, Jean Montgomery b. circa 1924 and Annie Montgomery, all are illegitimate. Effie married Mr. ??? Dunbar, Jean marries Mr. ??? Leary and Annie the younger never marries. Eva Christian Brown, the little girl Euphemia Montgomery raised from a baby, married William Wilson - Railway Goods Shunter on 25th September 1936 at Portobello. Her "adopted mother" Euphemia Montgomery died six weeks after Eva's wedding on 7th December 1936 at 5 Straiton Place, Portobello. The question now is, what was the relationship of Euphemia Montgomery to the woman who gave birth to Eva Christian Brown? Why was the identity of Eva's mother, taken from a child that died at 8 months of age? Was the story that Eva's mother immigrated to Canada, not long after the Eva's birth, an easy way to explain how she disappeared off the planet? With the private means that Euphemia was receiving and could live on and not work for a living, coming from maintenance being paid by the father of Annie Gall Montgomery? Can anyone help with more information regarding the Montgomery family of Musselburgh/Portobello? Or come up with any idea's regarding the birth certificate for Eva and the false details which it contains? Regards, Janice Belrose - Sydney Australia

Hi Janice Do you think it is possible that "living on private means" (Euphemia Montgomery) was a nice way of saying "prostitute"? And if not where did she get her money. And what happened to Euphemia's sister, Annie (so many Annies!) ? Is it possible that Eva was this Annie's child? I found the death of an Annie Montgomery, domestic servant, single, living at 183 Causewayside, Edinburgh. She died in the Royal Infirmary, Edinburgh in 1922 aged "57" but unfortunately no names of parents were given and the informant was the Hospital Registrar. Rhoda

Hi Janice I checked with the GRO in Edinburgh re the practice of recording illegitimacy on birth records and the (strange to me) incidence of adding the occupation of the mother's father, where the father's name is not given. This is what they said in reply: "There was never a legal requirement introduced to put the occupation of the grandparents - this could have been personal choice for this particular registrar, but certainly not widespread practice. The last records I can find illegitimate written on was in 1918 - perhaps after the first world war they changed the legislation to reflect that a good many children were born illegitimate afterwards, as a whole generation of men had been wiped out in the war. I tried to find some formal legislation for this but could not find it - but checked births from 1905 onwards and it is not until 1919 that the word illegitimate disappears." So why does Eva's certificate not include the word "illegitimate"? Adoption didn't become subject to legislation in Scotland until 1931. Before that adoption and fostering had been done on an informal basis. So Eva's adoption would have been an informal arrangement. Rhoda

Marilyn, I don't have a specific answer to your question, but I'm wondering about the timeline. When you sign up for an apprenticeship or a stint in the army, it's a commitment for "x" number of years. If he was in the middle of an apprenticeship in 1901 census, that may have taken another few years to complete. Then a term in the army might be three years or so. Do you know when he arrived in Australia and what he gave as his occupation? That may enable you to narrow down the available years for army service and establish the likelihood of him serving in numerous places. Peter in Sydney.

At 04:22 PM 16/09/2008, you wrote: >If he was in the middle of an apprenticeship in 1901 census, that may >have taken another few years to complete. Then a term in the army might be >three years or so. Hi Peter, I was wondering about that too. He was an apprentice moulder at 16 .Assuming he could have started it at 14 then joined the army c. 1903 when he was 18 or maybe he skipped out of his apprenticeship you wrote Do you know when he arrived in Australia and what he gave as his occupation? That may enable you to narrow down the available years for army service and establish the likelihood of him serving in numerous places. Well I went to findmy past and the only one that came anywhere near him was a Mr Reid arriving in Oct 1910 and calling himself an engineer. The age was right and the fact he was a Scot. He went to Sydney. I know by 1912 he was in Kalgoorlie singing at the Boulder Town Hall (I have the bill poster of that occasion) He married his wife Ellen there in 1914 He worked for the railway in Kalgoorlie and when he joined the army in 1917 he had himself down as a Soldier, fettler and miner So unfortunately that's all I know cheers Marilyn

Hi, A relation William Reid Farquhar (b. 1885 in Torry Nigg )also known as William Reid. In the 1901 census he was with his adopted parents at Menzies St Torry and is down as William Farquhar apprentice moulder aged 16 yrs. When he enlisted in the WW1 in Australia in 1917, he said that he was previously a soldier 1900-1910 in Aberdeen ,various places around England and Abroard. He was supposedly in the Royal Engineers. So who do I go to to find out this information. If anyone is on line that can do it I certainly don't mind paying for the search. Many thanks for any help cheers Marilyn

Thanks Alex. Regards Ella Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex. Gray" <gray101239@btinternet.com> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] Free software > Brothers Keeper have a free download at www.bkwin.org/version6.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1671 - Release Date: 9/14/2008 7:16 AM

Hi Anne Thanks so much for your prompt reply. Kind regards Ella ----- Original Message ----- From: "aw011a7840" <aw011a7840@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] Free software > Legacy have a free Family Software download, as do the LDS > www.familysearch.org > > Anne - Edinburgh > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ella Ross" <ebbtide@ihug.com.au> > To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com>; <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com>; > <LANARK@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:42 AM > Subject: [SCT-EDINBURGH] Free software > > >> >> Hi Listers >> >> I use Family Tree Maker. A friend who has recently become addicted to >> genealogy has asked me if there are any free software programmes that she >> can download. Do any of you know of any that you can recommend? >> >> Many thanks in advance >> Ella Ross, Sydney >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1670 - Release Date: >> 13/09/2008 12:50 >> >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1671 - Release Date: 9/14/2008 7:16 AM

Hi Listers I use Family Tree Maker. A friend who has recently become addicted to genealogy has asked me if there are any free software programmes that she can download. Do any of you know of any that you can recommend? Many thanks in advance Ella Ross, Sydney

Re Scottish Birth Registrations: My father was illegitimate - but I was very fortunate that both his mother, father & their occupations were noted on the certificate. Regards Beth beautiful SUNNY northern NSW. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ella Ross" <ebbtide@ihug.com.au> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: [SCT-EDINBURGH] Birth certificates > Hi > My father was illegitimate. His birth certificate does not show > "illegitimate" although there is no father's name. > > My mother in law was also illegitimate. Not only does it show " > illegitimate" but records that her mother was the widow of a man killed in > a > pit accident some years earlier. Just in case we were in doubt. > > Another birth certificate I have shows " illegitimate" and under the > mother's name states (daughter of labourer). > > Maybe it was up to the registrar. > > Ella Ross, Sydney > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> > To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:17 AM > Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie > > >> Good morning/evening Janice >> >> Forget my comment about the butcher's assistant; I wasn't thinking >> straight >> when I asked that question. >> >> However I have been thinking about Eva's birth certificate. Have you >> seen >> a >> copy of the Scottish birth certificate, or was the information relayed to >> you? It is most unusual on Scottish birth certificates to name the >> occupation of the mother's father. I have seen other birth certificates >> for >> illegitimate births where only the name of the mother is given, and they >> have not specified the maternal grandfather's occupation. Another thing: >> illegitimate births were noted as such on Scottish birth certificates, in >> the first column, headed "Name and Surname" although I imagine they have >> stopped this rather cruel practice now. >> >> By the time that Eva was born, her grandfather John Brown had progressed >> to >> being a butcher rather than a butcher's assistant which he had been when >> his >> daughter Ann Milne Brown was born, and which is named as his occupation >> on >> Ann's birth certificate. Mary Knowles father was a butcher just some >> doors >> down from where he lived at the time he married Mary, and I expect he >> probably worked as an assistant to his future father-in-law. >> >> >> Regards >> Rhoda >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Janice Doughty" <adoughty01@optusnet.com.au> >> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:15 PM >> Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie >> >> >>> Good morning Rhoda, >>> >>> What a wealth of information, and some of its looks really very >>> promising. >>> Thank you so much for all this family research you have carried out. I >>> am >>> now going to study it very carefully. Also, your question could Ann's >>> mother be the 'Butcher's Assistant"? I suppose so, as she does not say >>> mother or father, just "...daughter of a butcher's assistant..." >>> >>> Once I hear back from Bob, I will let you know what he intends to do, >>> with >>> all this information you and other Listers have been so generous >>> providing. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Janice >>> Belrose - Sydney >>> Australia >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> >>> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 7:25 PM >>> Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie >>> >>> >>>> Hi Janice >>>> >>>> Pinkie is a district of Musselburgh. I used to pass through >>>> Musselburgh >>>> fairly frequently when I was a child on the way to see my Grandmother >>>> in >>>> North Berwick. >>>> >>>> I googled "Pinkie" and there were several references to St Peter's >>>> Primary >>>> School. >>>> >>>> To go back to the Montgomery family. There were a few Montgomeries in >>>> Musselburgh in the 1901 Census. I did a bit of searching yesterday and >>>> looked up marriages between Montgomery (male) and Brown (female) in >>>> "Inveresk and Musselburgh". Between 1900 and 1932 there was one >>>> marriage - >>>> between Andrew Montgomery and Alice Brown in 1909. He was the son of >>>> George >>>> Montgomery and Agnes Aikman. She was illegitimate, the daughter of >>>> Margaret >>>> Cockburn Brown who had later married Alexander Baptie. Doesn't really >>>> sound >>>> very hopeful. >>>> >>>> There were 3 marriages in the whole of Midlothian between Male >>>> Montgomeries >>>> and Female Browns. Apart from George and Agnes above, there was 1 in >>>> the >>>> district of St Andrew in Edinburgh in 1917 between James Montgomery, >>>> Bookkeeper, and Annie Brown, daughter of William Brown, Fishmonger, and >>>> Agnes Dickson. Both Annie and James were living in 31 Dudley Crescent, >>>> Leith at the time of the marriage. He was 25 and she was 30. It was a >>>> "marriage by declaration" (a civil marriage) in the presence of William >>>> Gray, Coalminer, and Catherine Brown. >>>> >>>> The 3rd marriage was in Canongate, Edinburgh in 1911 between Hugh >>>> Montgomery >>>> and Christina Isabel Brown. I haven't looked at the image. >>>> >>>> I also looked at births of Montgomery female children in between 1909 >>>> and >>>> 1930 in "Inveresk and Musselburgh". There were 13 listed, as follows: >>>> 1909 Margaret Brown >>>> 1909 Violet Naysmith >>>> 1910 Agnes Begbie >>>> 1911 Annie Bryden >>>> 1913 Sarah Bowman >>>> 1917 Catherine >>>> 1913 Jessie Robertson >>>> 1920 Annie >>>> 1921 Margaret Davina >>>> 1921 Jemima Barr >>>> 1922 Janet Moffatt >>>> 1924 Jean >>>> 1930 Elizabeth >>>> (there are no images on Scotlands People for these births). >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1670 - Release Date: 9/13/2008 > 12:50 PM > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Brothers Keeper have a free download at www.bkwin.org/version6.htm

Legacy have a free Family Software download, as do the LDS www.familysearch.org Anne - Edinburgh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ella Ross" <ebbtide@ihug.com.au> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com>; <DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com>; <LANARK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:42 AM Subject: [SCT-EDINBURGH] Free software > > Hi Listers > > I use Family Tree Maker. A friend who has recently become addicted to > genealogy has asked me if there are any free software programmes that she > can download. Do any of you know of any that you can recommend? > > Many thanks in advance > Ella Ross, Sydney > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1670 - Release Date: > 13/09/2008 12:50 > >

Hi Ella, The last entry you mention sounds similar to what is on Eva's birth certificate, where your one states "daughter of a labour", Eva's mother is recorded as "daughter of a Butcher's assistant". Hope you are enjoying the lovely Spring weather in Sydney today and the blooming wattle, colourful display of the azaleas and the lovely orchids. Regards, Janice Belrose - Sydney Up the Sea Eagles. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ella Ross" <ebbtide@ihug.com.au> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: [SCT-EDINBURGH] Birth certificates > Hi > My father was illegitimate. His birth certificate does not show > "illegitimate" although there is no father's name. > > My mother in law was also illegitimate. Not only does it show " > illegitimate" but records that her mother was the widow of a man killed in > a > pit accident some years earlier. Just in case we were in doubt. > > Another birth certificate I have shows " illegitimate" and under the > mother's name states (daughter of labourer). > > Maybe it was up to the registrar. > > Ella Ross, Sydney >

Hi My father was illegitimate. His birth certificate does not show "illegitimate" although there is no father's name. My mother in law was also illegitimate. Not only does it show " illegitimate" but records that her mother was the widow of a man killed in a pit accident some years earlier. Just in case we were in doubt. Another birth certificate I have shows " illegitimate" and under the mother's name states (daughter of labourer). Maybe it was up to the registrar. Ella Ross, Sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie > Good morning/evening Janice > > Forget my comment about the butcher's assistant; I wasn't thinking > straight > when I asked that question. > > However I have been thinking about Eva's birth certificate. Have you seen > a > copy of the Scottish birth certificate, or was the information relayed to > you? It is most unusual on Scottish birth certificates to name the > occupation of the mother's father. I have seen other birth certificates > for > illegitimate births where only the name of the mother is given, and they > have not specified the maternal grandfather's occupation. Another thing: > illegitimate births were noted as such on Scottish birth certificates, in > the first column, headed "Name and Surname" although I imagine they have > stopped this rather cruel practice now. > > By the time that Eva was born, her grandfather John Brown had progressed > to > being a butcher rather than a butcher's assistant which he had been when > his > daughter Ann Milne Brown was born, and which is named as his occupation on > Ann's birth certificate. Mary Knowles father was a butcher just some doors > down from where he lived at the time he married Mary, and I expect he > probably worked as an assistant to his future father-in-law. > > > Regards > Rhoda > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janice Doughty" <adoughty01@optusnet.com.au> > To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:15 PM > Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie > > >> Good morning Rhoda, >> >> What a wealth of information, and some of its looks really very >> promising. >> Thank you so much for all this family research you have carried out. I >> am >> now going to study it very carefully. Also, your question could Ann's >> mother be the 'Butcher's Assistant"? I suppose so, as she does not say >> mother or father, just "...daughter of a butcher's assistant..." >> >> Once I hear back from Bob, I will let you know what he intends to do, >> with >> all this information you and other Listers have been so generous >> providing. >> >> Regards, >> Janice >> Belrose - Sydney >> Australia >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> >> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 7:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie >> >> >>> Hi Janice >>> >>> Pinkie is a district of Musselburgh. I used to pass through Musselburgh >>> fairly frequently when I was a child on the way to see my Grandmother in >>> North Berwick. >>> >>> I googled "Pinkie" and there were several references to St Peter's >>> Primary >>> School. >>> >>> To go back to the Montgomery family. There were a few Montgomeries in >>> Musselburgh in the 1901 Census. I did a bit of searching yesterday and >>> looked up marriages between Montgomery (male) and Brown (female) in >>> "Inveresk and Musselburgh". Between 1900 and 1932 there was one >>> marriage - >>> between Andrew Montgomery and Alice Brown in 1909. He was the son of >>> George >>> Montgomery and Agnes Aikman. She was illegitimate, the daughter of >>> Margaret >>> Cockburn Brown who had later married Alexander Baptie. Doesn't really >>> sound >>> very hopeful. >>> >>> There were 3 marriages in the whole of Midlothian between Male >>> Montgomeries >>> and Female Browns. Apart from George and Agnes above, there was 1 in the >>> district of St Andrew in Edinburgh in 1917 between James Montgomery, >>> Bookkeeper, and Annie Brown, daughter of William Brown, Fishmonger, and >>> Agnes Dickson. Both Annie and James were living in 31 Dudley Crescent, >>> Leith at the time of the marriage. He was 25 and she was 30. It was a >>> "marriage by declaration" (a civil marriage) in the presence of William >>> Gray, Coalminer, and Catherine Brown. >>> >>> The 3rd marriage was in Canongate, Edinburgh in 1911 between Hugh >>> Montgomery >>> and Christina Isabel Brown. I haven't looked at the image. >>> >>> I also looked at births of Montgomery female children in between 1909 >>> and >>> 1930 in "Inveresk and Musselburgh". There were 13 listed, as follows: >>> 1909 Margaret Brown >>> 1909 Violet Naysmith >>> 1910 Agnes Begbie >>> 1911 Annie Bryden >>> 1913 Sarah Bowman >>> 1917 Catherine >>> 1913 Jessie Robertson >>> 1920 Annie >>> 1921 Margaret Davina >>> 1921 Jemima Barr >>> 1922 Janet Moffatt >>> 1924 Jean >>> 1930 Elizabeth >>> (there are no images on Scotlands People for these births). >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. 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Would that be Canada geese? grin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacquie" <jjjcmj@mts.net> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Annie Brown&James Montgomery > Keep in mind that Eva being born at 86 Grove Street doesn't necessarily > mean that Ann Milne Brown > lived there. It could be the address of the midwife who delivered the > baby. We can't really make > assumptions that any of the Browns living at 86 Grove Street were related > especially since Brown is > such a common name. I know from experience that you can easily end up > "pursuing an untamed ornithoid > without cause" (sorry, I couldn't resist a Star Trek reference - that > means a wild goose chase). > > Jacquie > Winnipeg, MB > Canada > > -----Original Message----- > From: sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > Janice Doughty > Sent: September 14, 2008 4:32 PM > To: sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Annie Brown > &James Montgomery > > Hi Jacquie, > > They mystery however, is that "Ann" gives the address where Eva was born > 86 > Grove Street, Edinburgh, where Browns were living at the time of the 1901 > Census. > > Regards, > Janice > Belrose - Sydney > Australia > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Jacquie, I suppose in 1909 when our "Ann" gave birth to Eva, she could have been as young as 15. It is a shame that Eva's birth certificate does not give the age of the mother, it would be a great help. Also, as previously suggested, she may not have used the middle name "Milne" on the 1901 Census. They mystery however, is that "Ann" gives the address where Eva was born 86 Grove Street, Edinburgh, where Browns were living at the time of the 1901 Census. Here in Oz, we have another very helpful toll to use in the 1900s and that is the Electrol Rolls (we became a Federated Nation in 1901). Is there anything like that in Scotland? I also will have a look at this Pinkie School, there maybe answers there, if they have archives or even a year book could be of assistance. Eva would have started school around 1915. Regards, Janice Belrose - Sydney Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacquie" <jjjcmj@mts.net> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 5:49 AM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Annie Brown &James Montgomery >I saw that marriage registration as well but the age for Annie Brown is >actually 20, not 30. I > confirmed that by finding Annie Brown with her parents on the 1901 census > in East Lothian and she > was only 4 years old. After finding the census entry, I re-examined her > age and the 2 does look like > a 3 but when you compare it to the 2 in James' age, it looks more like > that than the 3s found on the > page. > > Jacquie > > -----Original Message----- > From: sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > CandROverson > Sent: September 14, 2008 4:25 AM > To: sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie > > Apart from George and Agnes above, there was 1 in the > district of St Andrew in Edinburgh in 1917 between James Montgomery, > Bookkeeper, and Annie Brown, daughter of William Brown, Fishmonger, and > Agnes Dickson. Both Annie and James were living in 31 Dudley Crescent, > Leith at the time of the marriage. He was 25 and she was 30. It was a > "marriage by declaration" (a civil marriage) in the presence of William > Gray, Coalminer, and Catherine Brown. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Good morning Rhoda, What a wealth of information, and some of its looks really very promising. Thank you so much for all this family research you have carried out. I am now going to study it very carefully. Also, your question could Ann's mother be the 'Butcher's Assistant"? I suppose so, as she does not say mother or father, just "...daughter of a butcher's assistant..." Once I hear back from Bob, I will let you know what he intends to do, with all this information you and other Listers have been so generous providing. Regards, Janice Belrose - Sydney Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] John Brown and Mary Knowles: Pinkie > Hi Janice > > Pinkie is a district of Musselburgh. I used to pass through Musselburgh > fairly frequently when I was a child on the way to see my Grandmother in > North Berwick. > > I googled "Pinkie" and there were several references to St Peter's Primary > School. > > To go back to the Montgomery family. There were a few Montgomeries in > Musselburgh in the 1901 Census. I did a bit of searching yesterday and > looked up marriages between Montgomery (male) and Brown (female) in > "Inveresk and Musselburgh". Between 1900 and 1932 there was one > marriage - > between Andrew Montgomery and Alice Brown in 1909. He was the son of > George > Montgomery and Agnes Aikman. She was illegitimate, the daughter of > Margaret > Cockburn Brown who had later married Alexander Baptie. Doesn't really > sound > very hopeful. > > There were 3 marriages in the whole of Midlothian between Male > Montgomeries > and Female Browns. Apart from George and Agnes above, there was 1 in the > district of St Andrew in Edinburgh in 1917 between James Montgomery, > Bookkeeper, and Annie Brown, daughter of William Brown, Fishmonger, and > Agnes Dickson. Both Annie and James were living in 31 Dudley Crescent, > Leith at the time of the marriage. He was 25 and she was 30. It was a > "marriage by declaration" (a civil marriage) in the presence of William > Gray, Coalminer, and Catherine Brown. > > The 3rd marriage was in Canongate, Edinburgh in 1911 between Hugh > Montgomery > and Christina Isabel Brown. I haven't looked at the image. > > I also looked at births of Montgomery female children in between 1909 and > 1930 in "Inveresk and Musselburgh". There were 13 listed, as follows: > 1909 Margaret Brown > 1909 Violet Naysmith > 1910 Agnes Begbie > 1911 Annie Bryden > 1913 Sarah Bowman > 1917 Catherine > 1913 Jessie Robertson > 1920 Annie > 1921 Margaret Davina > 1921 Jemima Barr > 1922 Janet Moffatt > 1924 Jean > 1930 Elizabeth > (there are no images on Scotlands People for these births). >

I use Legacy Deluxe and I love it. That version costs money but they also have a free version called Legacy Standard that doesn't have as many bells and whistles. It can be downloaded at http://www.legacyfamilytree.com/ Jacquie Winnipeg, MB Canada -----Original Message----- From: sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ella Ross Sent: September 15, 2008 12:42 AM To: sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com; DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY-L@rootsweb.com; LANARK@rootsweb.com Subject: [SCT-EDINBURGH] Free software Hi Listers I use Family Tree Maker. A friend who has recently become addicted to genealogy has asked me if there are any free software programmes that she can download. Do any of you know of any that you can recommend? Many thanks in advance Ella Ross, Sydney ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message