Hi, I have John ALISON (b. Erskine, Renfrewshire) m. Janet MARSHALL their children were and born in Lanarkshire: Annie b. 1862 Christina b. 1865 Samuel b. 1866 Henderson Strang b. 1867 Janet b. 1869 Elizabeth Marshall b. 1870 Alexander Marshall b. 1871 Regards, Sandy (Tasmania)

Yes please it may lead me somewhere useful, many thanks, Dianne -----Original Message----- From: sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Meg Greenwood Sent: Sunday, 19 October 2008 4:44 PM To: sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] St. Cuthbert's OPRs Diane - I used the IGI [Hugh Wallis St Cuthbert's search] and found a John ALISON but not in these filmed years, it was 1853. No Benjamin ALISON was found at all. When I checked the handwritten Indexes at the beginning of each St. Cuthberts film, there are only 2 ALISONs, both named William, and I was looking for any spelling of ALISON. Let me know if you wish either or both of those. MEG in OK ======================= Peter McCosker wrote: > Could you check for a John Alison or Benjamin Alison. I believe they got > married about the dates that you mention at St Cuthbert's. Many thanks, > Dianne > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Meg If this fits with the dates could you check Alfred STREET and Christian THOMSON married 18 Nov 1842 at St. Cutherberts, Edinburgh. The IGI also has the same couple married 20 Nov 1842 in Duddingston, Midlothian so I'm curious to know what the St. Cutheberts OPR says. Thanks Chris Godfrey _________________________________________________________________

Hi Meg, I am looking for Dewars, (Peter, Patrick, Archibald, Charlotte, Mary), Moffats (Thomas, William), or Morrisons (John, Jane). If that is too general, please let me know and I will try and be more specific. My Morrison line is John Morrison born in England who married Jane Kay. I believe my Morrisons leaned more toward Canongate and the Dewars St. Cuthberts. Elizabeth Dewar may fall into the time frame of marriages that you have. Also researching Archibald Menzies who married Margaret Cambell. Also researching Menzies, Kay, Cambell/Campbell. thanks,

Hello Meg and List, Many thanks for this look-up; it confirmed Elizabeth Glen Henderson's father's name and profession and the fact that he was dead by 1847. Much appreciated! Diana Robinson Re: Message: 3 Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 00:56:35 -0500 From: Meg Greenwood <scotquester@bartnet.net> Subject: [SCT-EDINBURGH] Elizabeth Glen HENDERSON m. Robt PATERSON, St. Cuthberts 1847 To: sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <48FACC13.2070302@bartnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Diana - Robert PATERSON, Plane Maker residing #2 Salisbury Street and Elizabeth Glen HENDERSON also residing same place, both in this parish, Daughter of the late George HENDERSON, sometime Shipmaster in Barrowstouness, afterward in #211 Cowgate, Edinburgh have been 3 several times duly and regularly proclaimed in the parish of St. Cuthberts in order to Marriage and no objections offered ... [no further details, this was on the page dated 20 Dec, 1847]. MegG in OK ========================

I mostly forget to remind those who have requested names from the St. Cuthbert's marraige OPRs, that I can send images as JPGs of any of the entries I've posted. Be reminded that the IMAGE is owned by the LDS church...but they do not own the information contained on the image. I'm allowed to personally send you an image from the film, but it cannot end up in any publication nor on the internet. Thanks for understanding my limitations with these OPRs, they are minor and I seriously doubt anyone out there wishes to put their document on the internet. So, I've now posted my Disclaimer, and will get a few more done today. About 2 weeks left for the film I think, then the List will be back to normal [or is there no normal for a List and its always something new]. MEG =======================

At 06:14 AM 19/10/2008, you wrote: > "Kirk Session Minutes" - >they can be an "Aladdin's Cave " !! Good morning John, Are the "Kirk Sessions avialable on Scotlands people or can they be ordered from LDS? Many thanks Cheers Marilyn from Western Australia

Good morning Marilyn, No they are not on "Scotland's People" and yes they are available through LDS. For those who can visit Edinburgh The original Kirk Session Minutes have been digitised by National Archives of Scotland and are available to view at no cost ( readers ticket required again free) See The National Archives of Scotland, H.M. General Register House, 2 Princes Street, Edinburgh, EH1 3YY; tel +44 (0) 131 535 1314; email: enquiries@nas.gov.uk http://www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/ Regards John John D. Stevenson Edinburgh SNIP > Are the "Kirk Sessions avialable on Scotlands people or can they be > ordered from LDS?

Joanne - here are your 2 : 1846 George ALEXANDER, Wright residing in Salisbury Place, Newington and Ann MURRAY residing #8 Nicolson Square both in this Parish, Daughter of James MURRAY, Tailor at Bankfoot, in the parish of Auchtergaven? have been 3 several times duly and regularly proclaimed in the parish of St. Cuthberts in order to Marriage and no objections offered....Married on the 11th day of December current by the Reverend George Clives? Campbell, Minister of the Relief Congregation, Arthur Street, Pleasance in this Parish. 1846 Charles LEADBETTER, Architect residing #6 North St. James's Place and Catherine BURNET residing in #4 Hill Place both in this parish, Daughter of William BURNET, Tailor residing in Strichen's Close #104 High Street, Edinburgh have been 3 several times duly and regularly proclaimed in the parish of St. Cuthberts in order to Marriage and no objections offered....Married [no further notes, this was entered on a page headed by 12 October]. MegG in Ok ====================== Joanne Lamb wrote: ....... > 11/12/1846 ALEXANDER GEORGE ANN MURRAY/FR2432 > 12/10/1846 LEADBETTER CHARLES CATHERINE BURNET/FR2419 > > Many thanks Joanne > >

Diana - Robert PATERSON, Plane Maker residing #2 Salisbury Street and Elizabeth Glen HENDERSON also residing same place, both in this parish, Daughter of the late George HENDERSON, sometime Shipmaster in Barrowstouness, afterward in #211 Cowgate, Edinburgh have been 3 several times duly and regularly proclaimed in the parish of St. Cuthberts in order to Marriage and no objections offered ... [no further details, this was on the page dated 20 Dec, 1847]. MegG in OK ======================== Diana Robinson wrote: > Hello Meg, .... Elizabeth Glen HENDERSON married Robert PATERSON at St.Cuthberts Dec > 20, 1847. ..... Many thanks, Diana Robinson > >

Had no luck finding a Margaret MAIN from 1842-1849. The Index doesn't list females, so I used Hugh Wallis's Batch Search for St. Cuthberts and still found no Margaret MAIN or MEIN [the 2 spellings I got hits for]. The IGI did find a Margaret MEIN [father Thomas MEIN] who wed 28 May, 1819 St Cuthberts to James IMRIE. That's way out of the years you asked for, but all I could locate in St. Cuthberts beginning about 1800. MegG in OK ========================

Diane - I used the IGI [Hugh Wallis St Cuthbert's search] and found a John ALISON but not in these filmed years, it was 1853. No Benjamin ALISON was found at all. When I checked the handwritten Indexes at the beginning of each St. Cuthberts film, there are only 2 ALISONs, both named William, and I was looking for any spelling of ALISON. Let me know if you wish either or both of those. MEG in OK ======================= Peter McCosker wrote: > Could you check for a John Alison or Benjamin Alison. I believe they got > married about the dates that you mention at St Cuthbert's. Many thanks, > Dianne > > >

Marilyn - I volunteer at a Family History Center in Oklahoma USA as a non-churchmember. You can order dozens of films of the handwritten Kirk Sessions books...but you must know what PARISH is the one of interest. Not all parishes had Kirk Sessions that have surviving records and not all of those were filmed. To find out what has been filmed for a topic, go here and select KEYWORD SEARCH, its better than Place Search : http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp I entered only these 3 words with no commas or punctuation : Kirk Sessions Midlothian That returned 8 titles to clik on and check out the film contents and film number by clikking on the VIEW FILM NOTES button. If it hasn't been filmed, it says so in the same place as the button. If I searched for : Kirk Sessions Edinburgh, more titles were found, but many were Blotter Registers. By just entering : Kirk Sessions yields 130 titles mostly the UK and some in the US. Vary the search terms and see if what you need has been filmed. Be reminded that Church MINUTES are the mostly dry notes on the weekly running of the church. Although occasionally I've found admonitions and a few reports of drunken behavior in Church minutes I've read. Still, the SESSIONS are generally what you are looking for to get the perhaps members names, maybe lists of parishioners, lots of scandalous behaviors and assorted reprimands and rebukings. You know....the kind of happenings that led to a lot of us being here to read this ..... Meg G in Oklahoma USA ==============================

Good evening Meg, You make some excellent points in your note !! " Or am I to understand that there was no need to report a completed Marriage ceremony back to any church that recorded the Banns ? " That is correct ! Once the Banns were read and no objections were forthcoming that Church/Minister's job was "finished " and as far as they were concerned there was no "legal" requirement for the bride and groom to furnish the details back to them . I was a close friend of the late Kay Cory who wrote what I still think is the most definitive book on researching Scottish family history ( Tracing Your Scottish Ancestry by Kathleen B. Cory) . She was the one who provided me with the basic tools for researching FH and always maintained the major problem with OPR records was there was no standard procedure for maintaining/recording these Registers . It is a situation we have to live with and I personally depend on friends/colleagues from different parts of the country to help with local variations in the recording of events. Also don't forget , if it is possible , to use the "Kirk Session Minutes" - they can be an "Aladdin's Cave " !! Good luck with your research !! Regards John John D. Stevenson Edinburgh

At 01:01 16 10 2008 -0600, you wrote: >Message: 3 >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:07:32 -0700 >From: "Carolyn Prellwitz" <cprellwitz@telus.net> >Subject: [SCT-EDINBURGH] JACK and LOGAN >To: <midlothian@rootsweb.com>, <SCT-EDINBURGH@rootsweb.com>, > <LOGAN-L@rootsweb.com>, <jack@rootsweb.com> >Message-ID: <007701c92f3c$5568bb00$4001a8c0@myfirstnov0k0l> >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > >George JACK, a bank porter, married Christian LOGAN 1 July 1800 in >Edinburgh. Christian's father was an ale labourer in Tranent. They had at >least 5 children: While searching for my JACK family, not related to the above as far as I can see, I found a reference to George JACK, a porter in the Leith Bank who gave evidence in a court case. It was reported in the "Caledonian Mercury" 3 Mar 1825. I accessed this through the Gale Newspaper site but you needed to apply for a free trial. Pam Dick

You seem to be making some huge assumptions here, the main one being that any birth or christening will be on the OPR somewhere. The simple explanation is the George gave his correct age and birthplace but towards the end of his life when this information was being given by other people, they assumed he was born in Leith and thought he was older than he was. When people are as specific and consistent as he was, right down to the name of a farm, the information tends to be reliable, although you have to allow for people moving to a new home when very small. The OPRs for Haddington are listed as complete for that date range but that doesn't mean there aren't the odd gaps. There are many other reasons why he could have been missed out, ranging from the family getting involved with another church, to a mistranscription. It would be interesting to know the full information for his marriage and death records, and the details of the baptisms of his siblings. You could also check the published MIs for Durness and any available records for Daviot. Judy On 18 Oct 2008, at 04:14, Carolyn Prellwitz wrote: > Now back to George JACK, junior - If he was not born in Daviot, > Aberdeen, > the other prospect could be "that he was in fact "William Graham > Jack" and > went by the name "George" as his ages on the various documents show > his > birth date to being quite close to that for William Graham JACK

Good morning Meg, This is another one of the "grey" areas in Scottish FH !!! The instances you have shown are "Declaration's of Banns " not the record of the actual marriage. Will try and explain ! A couple wishing to marry had to "declare" their intent to marry in the parish they were normally domiciled in ( hence you may get male and females entries in different parishes) which was normally one year , but varied parish to parish Therefore because the banns were "read" in St Cuthbert's it doesn't mean they had to be married there. This applied regardless of religion . I have 1. A RC man and a C of S women having their banns read in The Old Kirk , Edinburgh , but being married in St Pat's , RC chapel, Cowgate. . They were both living in Mylnes Square. 2. Two members of C of S having banns read in North Leith but being married in Dunbar parish. This being the brides "home" parish . One has to remember the C of S were first and foremost interested in all things "legal" as far as marriages and births were concerned. In general, marrying without calling the banns made a marriage illicit, but not invalid. These notes from "Scotland's People" may help to make things clearer. Parish registers may record the date(s) of the proclamation of banns or the marriage date itself or both, but only one or the other will appear in the index. There is no indication given in the index as to whether the entry is a proclamation or a marriage, but it is more usual for the index entry to show the proclamation date. Proclamation of Banns The proclamation of banns was the notice of contract of marriage, read out in the Kirk before the marriage took place. Couples or their 'cautioners' (sponsors) were often required to pay a 'caution' or security to prove the seriousness of their intentions. Forthcoming marriages were supposed to be proclaimed on three successive Sundays, however, in practice, all three proclamations could be made on the same day on payment of a fee. If the bride and groom lived in different parishes, the impending marriage was proclaimed in both parishes, although not necessarily on the same days, therefore the dates in each register may be different. You may also find that one register may show the proclamation date and the other the date of the marriage itself. INFORMATION IN AN OPR BANNS& MARRIAGES RECORD Do not expect too much from OPR banns & marriages records. The amount of information recorded can be variable and most entries contain very little detail. At best: date(s) of the proclamation of intended marriage and/or date of marriage, names of bride and groom and their parish of residence, sometimes the occupation of the groom and occasionally the name of the bride's father. At worst:the names of the bride and groom recorded along with the fee paid in caution. Good luck with your researches !! Regards John John D. Stevenson Edinburgh

Reading of the Banns and recording that they were indeed proclaimed appears to be one of the consistencies of all of these St. Cuthbert's entries. Many of the couples were wed in other churches, and the good Minister took great care to record the marriage date with the location of the church and the Reverend's name who performed the ceremony. I averaged the Marriage entries per page at 6 and in looking over 8 pages, found an average of 2 per page that did not have any marriage recorded. I noted that marriages in the IGI used the date at the top of each page as the Marriage date IF there was no other found. The transcribers had to enter a date of marriage, there was no place for them to record the date of Banns. Fully realize this is the cause of finding conflicting Marriage dates in the IGI....both the Banns date and the Marriage date were entered as Marriages. Transcribers had no other choice given to them. The "grey" areas you noted were perpetuated at a greater level of "greyness" by this decision to record only 1 date for a "Marriage" in constructing the IGI...even though 2 separate dates were clearly described in many instances. Do you think this may be because the couple did not report their actual marriage back to a recording church ? I thought since the Banns were ordered to be proclaimed [and the couple certainly should have rememberd it, one or both of them was there personally], the process should have been completed by reporting the marriage back to any church where the Banns were proclaimed [St. Cuthbert's in this case]. Or am I to understand that there was no need to report a completed Marriage ceremony back to any church that recorded the Banns ? Some couples obviously did get this reported, other couples evidently did not....or it was possibly forgotten by the clerk or Minister as I surmised earlier. Many thanks John for your explanation of Banns procedures. I do hope the forgetfullness of recording the final marriage was not on the part of this clerk or Minister. He's recorded so much in the OPR books and appears to have been eager to properly record all Banns and Marriages reported to him. MegG in OK ===========================

Here's the one DOBBIE marriage and the rest of the CUNNINGHAMs : I note several marriages have nothing written for the actual marriage. These entries are all handwritten including names, residences, father of the bride, proclamation verbage and a space for the marriage date to be entered later. If there was no entry made, the space is completely blank. For some reason, the good minister or harried clerk did not enter the marriage details as he should have done. Even though this person had wonderful penmanship and asked great questions about the bride and groom....he did not have a laudable memory....he keeps forgetting to go back a few pages in the book and enter the marriage date in the blank section provided. Some of these had the word "Married" already written in the space provided. This is easily seen in the handwriting. The entry was completed in a slightly different hand, or he used another quill. Perhaps some of these marriages didn't actually take place and that's why there is no further information. But there are so many of these entries with blank spaces and no marriage details, I have to think its because he didn't go back and enter the data. ================ William DOBBIE, Tailor, residing in Simpson's Court #74, Potter Row and Margaret MURRAY, residing same place both in this Parish, Daughter of the late Peter MURRAY, Silversmith in Pleasance have been 3 several times duly and regularly proclaimed in order to Marriage in the Parish Church of St. Cuthbert's. No objections offered....[nothing further entered here, top of the page notes this was the week of 15 August, 1842, so that's the date used in the IGI]. Isabella CUNNINGHAM David MOIR, Printer residing in #23 South St. James Street and Isabella CUNNINGHAM residing in same place, both in this parish, Daughter of the late Alexander CUNNINGHAM, Labourer in Canongate have been 3 several times duly and regularly proclaimed in order to Marriage in the Parish Church of St. Cuthbert's. No objections offered....[nothing further entered here, top of the page notes this was the week of 7 March, 1842 so that's the date used in the IGI]. Elizabeth CUNNINGHAM David Smith INGLIS, Maltman, residing in #3 Newport Street and Elizabeth CUNNINGHAM residing in #13 Dunbar Street both in this Parish, Daughter of William CUNNINGHAM, Farm Servant at Rougley West Mains in the Parish of -enton [Renton?] have been 3 several times duly and regularly proclaimed in order to Marriage in the Parish Church of St. Cuthbert's. No objections offered....[nothing further entered here, top of the page notes this was the week of 20 November, 1842 so that's the date used in the IGI]. Cornelius CUNNINGHAM, Blacksmith residing in #8 South Saint James's Street and Mary DALRYMPLE residing in #23 East Claremont Court both in this Parish, Daughter of the late James CUNNINGHAM, Quarryman at Muttonhole in the Parish of Cramond, have been 3 several times duly and regularly proclaimed in order to Marriage and no objections offered....Married at Slateford on the 13th day of June current [1845] by the Reverend William Thomson, Minister of the United Associate Congregation there. George Godfrey CUNNINGHAM, Esquire residing in #12 Claremont Crescent in this Parish and Miss Isabella LAURIE residing in Lauriston, Barony of Gorbals, Glasgow, Daughter of James LAURIE Esquire of Lauriston have been 3 several times duly and regularly proclaimed in order to Marriage and no objections offered....Marriage on the 2nd day of August current [1843] by the Reverend Doctor Ralph Wardlaw, Minister of the Independent Congregation in George Street there. George CUNNINGHAM, "Lademan"? residing in Johnston's Land#32 West Port and Mary FAIR residing in same place both in this Parish, Daughter of Charles FAIR, Shoemaker there have been 3 several times duly and regularly proclaimed in order to Marriage and no objections offered...Married on the 23rd day of February current [1844] by the Reverend William Henry Goold, one of the Ministers of the Reformed Presbyterian Congregation, Lady Lawsons? Street. One of the entries I posted earlier today, that of Peter CUNNINGHAM, had no date written with it. The entry itself had no marriage details, but the page had a heading of the week of 3 June, 1844 so that's the date used in the IGI. MegG in OK =====================

If you come into Northumberland around the pit villages you will find Nettie means something entirely different. The miners and others it would be an outside WC (Not Wesleyan Church) ----- Original Message ----- From: "judy olsen" <copywriter@tesco.net> To: <sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] Name > there is also Netta as a given name, but I dont know how common that > would be. > > > judy > > > > > > > On 17 Oct 2008, at 20:40, Jacquie wrote: > >> I've also see references to Nettie being a nickname for Henrietta >> as well. >> >> Jacquie >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sct-edinburgh-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sct-edinburgh- >> bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of >> Alan Ireland >> Sent: October 17, 2008 6:49 AM >> To: sct-edinburgh@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] Name >> >> >> Janet is most likely, but possibly Annette. >> Best wishes, >> Sheena >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "robert.e.troup" <robert.e.troup@verizon.net> >> In my wife's family there is a Nettie RATCLIFFE born in Scotland. Is >> Nettie a given name or a nickname? If a nickname, what is the >> right name? >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-EDINBURGH- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCT-EDINBURGH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message