Dear Richard, I read your message about burgesses etc with much interest. I don't suppose you are able to look up the following:- 1.James Forman, (Baker of Richmond's Street in 1780 when he was married). 2.John Square, (James' father-in-law), late Deacon of the Fleshers in Edinburgh in 1780. Any assistance would be much appreciated. I have " History of His Majesty's Writer to the Signet" if anyone wants a look up ( e.g. Veitch WS?) Andrew Forman Royal Oak Yard, Skipton, BD23 1NP +44 1756 701501 Forman@royaloakyard.freeserve.co.uk

To Everyone, I have hit a brick wall of my research of my Gr.Grandmother. GRACE SUTHERLAND MURRAY possibly being born in Edinburgh (Kirknewton) about 1836-1837. She died in 1914 on Salisbury Street in Edinburgh. I have found on her death certificate her parents were listed as MICHAEL MURRAY and LETITIA MCCABE both of which was listed as being born in Ireland. Somehow I have found them being married in 1827 in Kirknewton. They also had a son PETER MURRAY I think born about 1828, also a daughter MARY MURRAY being born about 1830. In LETITIA MURRAY death certificate it listed her as dying July 14, 1873 in Kirknewton listed as informants were son-in-law PHILIP MCFEE. In the census of 1851 MICHAEL MURRAY was not listed, perhaps dying when GRACE SUTHERLAN MURRAY was very young. Any help would certainly be appreciated. Thanking anyone in advance. Joanne Brown (USA) maggie1115@aol.com

Hi Nan, The address you want is www.qvs.org.uk. This will give you info about Queen Victoria's School in Dunblane, which is no longer just for boys ! Regards, Mary McLaren ----- Original Message ----- From: "ndall" <ndall@bigpond.com> To: <SCT-EDINBURGH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 4:08 AM Subject: [EDB] Dunblane Boys School > Hi Listers, Does anyone know of a web address or how I can contact the school in Dunblane for sons of Army personnel? - Have been unsuccessful with "search" Thanks for any info. Nan > > ______________________________

Hi Listers, Does anyone know of a web address or how I can contact the school in Dunblane for sons of Army personnel? - Have been unsuccessful with "search" Thanks for any info. Nan

I have just found out that my great,great-grandfather Walter Culley Madge died in Newington, Edinburgh on 9th June 1920, the extract from the register shows his address as 3 Brights Crescent and the informant is his eldest son from his second marriage, J B Madge. My questions are:- 1. Where would he have been buried I do not know which church he attended ? 2. Would anyone be in a position to look up the census records for 1891 or 1901 and see if the Madge surname occurs before this date in Edinburgh ? Thanking you in advance Colin Madge Clacton-on-Sea Essex, UK ICQ - 74844434 Madge Family of Bengal - http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/cmadge/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.303 / Virus Database: 164 - Release Date: 24/11/01

Should be grateful for any help. Can anyone tell me anything more re a marriage in 1799 between Robert Peattie and Mary Stevenson in Edinburgh, Midlothian. I think they were the grandparents of a Robert Peattie who married an Elizabeth Johnson in London in 1864. I know his forbears came from Edinburgh, but this is the first ray of hope I have had in tracking them. All eldest sons called Robert, and all were Carpenters/joiners. Would be delighted if any one can help. Trouble is I don't know which part of Edinburgh - possibly Leith ? The Robert/Elizabeth marriage certificate merely says they were both born in Scotland.

My grandmother (aged 2), Florence Campbell MUIR and her siblings were photographed and hand tinted by <Horsburgh> in Edinburgh, around Christmas of 1880. Does anyone have information on this photographer? The photo is on glass and the local digital photo place can't copy it. Can someone give me a suggestion as to how to take a copy, so that I can store the original. Thanking you in advance for any information. Janet WHITE Burnaby, BC Canada

This is very interesting. My name is Christine and my middle name is Finlayson. My grandmother was Christine Barr Finlayson; her mother was Christine Barr and so on it goes backwards. I can trace the first female child in each generation being Christine a long, long way back. It was mostly accompanied by the name of the previous grandmother as a middle name. All these Christine's were born in Paisley up to early 19th century and then in Edinburgh. This Christine was also born in Edinburgh but won't tell you when! Christine http://www.highlandhearts.com Please also pay a visit to our new web site http://www.p-o-s-h.co.uk Preserving Our Sutherland History -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kean [mailto:pauljkean@yahoo.com.au] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 1:23 PM To: SCT-EDINBURGH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [EDB] Scottish naming patterns G'day Ian, I've also found that in many cases girls were given a second name that was the maiden name of their maternal grandmother. My M-I-L's second name is Young and her mother's second name was Carnie. This is useful for tracing back the female side of the family. I think this was done this way as a method of carrying the family history through two generations. Most people would know their mother's maiden name but probably not their grandmother's. Hence the naming pattern. I don't know exactly how long this method existed, but my M-I-L was born in 1938 and her mother in 1914, both in Edinburgh. Paul Kean (Sunny?? Melbourne Australia) --- Ian Dunbar <ian_dunbar@bigpond.com> wrote: > Would some one be able to outline Scottish naming patterns for me > please? > > Ian > http://my.yahoo.com.au - My Yahoo! - It's My Yahoo! Get your own! --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.313 / Virus Database: 174 - Release Date: 1/2/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.313 / Virus Database: 174 - Release Date: 1/2/2002

G'day Cobbers, Am researching the following surnames of DEAN/MELVIN/McLEAN, details as below: Descendants of Isabella MELVIN & Alexander DEAN Alexander DEAN, born circa 1819 in Elgin, Elgin, Scotland. He married Isabella MELVIN, 04 Feb 1848 in Elgin, Moray, Scotland, born circa 1820 in Elgin, Elgin, Scotland. I. Jessie Young DEAN, christened 25 Feb 1849 in Elgin, Moray Scotland. II. Margaret Geddes DEAN, christened 08 Dec 1850 in Elgin, Moray, Scotland. III. Alexander DEAN, born 25 Jun 1855 in Elgin, Moray, Scotland. IV. Elspet (Elsie) DEAN, born 16 Sep 1858 in Elgin, Moray, Scotland. She married (1) Charles McLEAN, 24 Jun 1892 in 51 Church Street, Elgin, Scotland, born 15 Sep 1860 in Garmouth, Moray, Scotland, (son of Charles McLEAN and Mary CLARK). Partner James HAY. A. William McLEAN, (son of Charles McLEAN and Elspet (Elsie) DEAN) born circa 1891 in Elgin, Elgin, Scotland. B. Charles McLEAN, (son of Charles McLEAN and Elspet (Elsie) DEAN) born 01 Feb 1893 in 51 South Street, Elgin, Scotland. C. Isabella Melvin (Bella) McLEAN, (daughter of Charles McLEAN and Elspet (Elsie) DEAN) born 02 Mar 1894 in South Street, Elgin, Elgin, Scotland. D. Alexander McLEAN, (son of Charles McLEAN and Elspet (Elsie) DEAN) born 14 Nov 1895 in 11 Batchen Lane, Elgin, Elgin, Scotland. E. John Jenkins McLEAN, (son of Charles McLEAN and Elspet (Elsie) DEAN) born 22 Nov 1896 in 20 Batchen Lane, Elgin, Elgin, Scotland. F. Ann HAY, (daughter of James HAY and Elspet (Elsie) DEAN) born 30 Sep 1897. V. John Jenkins DEAN, born 16 Oct 1861 in Elgin, Moray, Scotland. He married Margaret ROSS, 18 Nov 1892. Would like to hear from anybody connecting with these families. Regards Greg Baldwin AIGS 9842 A&NESFHS 9933 KFHS 7737 Researching Surnames: ALLEN - Cornwall, UK. BALDWIN - Kent, UK>New Zealand> Qld, AUS BENTON - Warwick, UK BIRCH - Yorkshire, UK> Qld, AUS BRODIE - Parish of Boyndie, Banffshire, SCT CAMERON - Black Isle, SCT CLARK - Rhynie & Essie, Aberdeen SCT CROZIER - Banbridge, Down, NIR > NZ DEAN - Elgin, Elgin, Scotland EDWARDS - Cornwall, UK. FRANCES - AUS GRANT - Parish of Rhynie, Aberdeen, SCT INCH - Cornwall, UK>New Zealand INGLIS - Banff/Moray, SCT LAURANCE - Banff, SCT. LEYLAND - Warwick, UK. LUMSDEN - Banff, SCT>New Zealand MacDONALD - Inverness, SCT. MASSEY - Down/Antrim, NIR>Qld, AUS MELVIN - Elgin, Elgin, Scotland McFADDEN -Down, NIR McINTOSH - Inverness, SCT > Qld, AUS McINTOSH - Ross Shire, Scotland>Qld, AUS McKENZIE - Banff/Moray, SCT McLEAN - Garmouth, Moray, SCT>Qld, AUS McLEAVY - Jedburgh, Roxburgh, SCT>Qld, AUS OLIVER - Jedburgh, Roxburgh, SCT>Qld, AUS RAFFAN - Banff, SCT REEVES - Yorkshire (?), UK REYNOLDS - Cornwall, UK. ROBERTSON - Ross & Cromarty, SCT RUDD - Westmoreland, Eng>Qld, AUS SIMPSON - Banff/Moray, SCT SMITH - SCT SPRENGER - Qld, AUS STUART - Moray, SCT WAKEFIELD - Stroud, Gloucester, Eng>Qld, AUS WHITEHOUSE - Warwick, UK. WILSON - Ayr, SCT>New Zealand email to: kennethb@melbpc.org.au Australian Genealogy: http://www.ke.com.au/bdmaus/index.html Australian Surname List: http://www.users.on.net/proformat/ausnamesL.html

Susan: The British Record Society, Limited - Scottish Section published numerous volumes of data of Scottish apprentice registers, burgess rolls, marriage registers, registers of testaments (wills), etc. The volumes were published for the members of the Society and some have found their way into libraries. The U.S. Library of Congress has a good selection and they were also helpful in identifying libraries closer to where I live (Indianapolis) that possessed volumes. I was surprised to learn that the Allen County Public Library, Anderson, IN has a rather good collection. You can also view some of the volumes on microfilm through the LDS FHCs and bound volumes are available at the Family History Library in Salt Lake City. Richard Robertson

I was asked to post the abbreviations I sent to Robin Kinloch off line. The message was as follows: Robin: See if this helps. " [Dunbar,] John, B. [burgess] and G. [guild-brother], skinner, be [by] r. [right] of fr. [father] John D. [Dunbar], skinner, B. [burgess] 18 Apr. 1694 [date he became a burgess] " [Dunbar,] John, junior, skinner ; Barbara Mason 8 June 1694 [the wedding date] ,, [Colquhoun,] Humphrey, skinner, B., as p. [prentice/apprentice] to John Dunbar, skinner, B. 12 May 1714 [the date he started his apprenticeship or the date it was recorded] " [Livingston,] Wm., B., skinner, as p. to John Dunbar, skinner, B. 1 Mar. 1682 " [Simpson,] Robert, skinner, B., as p. to John Dunbar, skinner, B. 29 Mar. 1732 " [Robertson,] Alexr., mt. [merchant], B. and G., by r. of admission of Robert Craig, dean [head of] of gild [guild - the organization that granted burgess-ship] 3 Nov. 1714 [certain officials had the right to grant burgess-ship without approval of the council] " [Veitch,] Wm., mt., B. and G., be r. of w. [wife] Christian, dr. [daughter] to Patrick Govan, mt., B. 10 Sept. 1718 Prophet (Profeit, Profit), Alexr., mt., B. and G., be r. of fr. [father] John P., B. and G. 15 July 1730 Mansfield, James, mt., be r. of Peter M., mt., B. 7 Sept. 1726 " [Knox,] Dr. Robert, B. and G., in r. of fr. (blank) Knox, surgeon, B. and G., gratis [free, usually for good service or community standing] , by act of C. [council of the guild] 19 Sept. 1764 (son of John?) " [Innes,] Alexr., mt., B. and G., be r. of Katharine, dr. to James Reid, mt., B. 29 June 1730 Hepburn, Alexr., s. to dec. [deceased] Alexr. H., mt. in Aberdeen, p. to Wm. Crooks, mt. (B.) 23 July 1718 Hepburn, Alex., mt., B. and G., as p. to Wm. Crooks, mt., B. and G. (23 July 1718 [date of apprenticeship]) 3 Jan. 1724 [date of burgess-ship] " [Gardener,] Thomas, mt., B. and G., be r. of fr. Andrew G., mt., B. and G. 10 Sept. 1729 Farquhar, Alexr., s. to Alexr. F., mt. in Montrose, p. to David Milne, skinner (B.) 20 Dec. 1704 Farquhar, Alexr., skinner, B., as p. to David Miln, skinner, B. (20 Dec. 1704) 13 Mar. 1728 " [Rollo] Mr. John, p. to Henry Bethun, goldsmith 3 Jan. 1724 ,, [Rollo] Mr. John, goldsmith. B. and G., as p. to Henry Bethun, goldsmith, B. and G. (3 Jan. 1724) 21 July 1731 Richard Robertson

Dear Kay: I have a James Finleyson who married Mary Hunter in Edinburgh June 25 1825, St Cuthberts. I have located some but not all of their children Alison, Thomas Maitland, and James Martin. They also had a daughter named Agnes born around 1841 who was my 2x's great grandmother . Irene ----- Original Message ----- From: <SCT-EDINBURGH-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <SCT-EDINBURGH-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 9:03 AM Subject: SCT-EDINBURGH-D Digest V02 #5

Hi Ian, I expect you will already have been inundated with answers to your naming pattern querie but it goes like this: "First son for the father's father Second son for the mother's father Third son for the father First daughter for the mother's mother Second daughter for the father's mother Third daughter for the mother" This pattern was uniformly used across the whole of Scotland until the beginning of the 20th century. Additional children were named for brothers and sisters of the parents or uncles and aunts. Not necessarily in line of succession, though, I don't believe. Hope this helps. Cheers, Maureen > Would some one be able to outline Scottish naming patterns for me please? > > Ian > > ______________________________

Hello! Does anyone on this List have relatives in these families? (Sterlings, Crichtons, Milners, Thompson) Can anyone tell me where the book "Thirty Famous Families of Scotland" can be found? I understand the Crichton family may be in that book, and I really need that information. My ancestor, Richard Crich, came to America in 1634, intermarried with the Bell Family of Scotland. When the last Lord of crichton paid for his political mischief by losing everything he had, reportedly the family scattered to the four winds, many changing their names to avoid persecution. Does anyone know who wrote this book, and if it can be copied if it is out of print? Thank you very much. Sincerely, Leola Starling

Greetings Ian My understanding is that the following is the 'normal naming pattern' for Scotland The 1st son was usually named after the father's father The 2nd son was usually named after the mother's father The 3rd son was usually named after the father The 1st daughter was usually named after the mother's mother The 2nd daughter was usually named after the father's mother The 3rd daughter was usually named after the mother The following pattern has also been noted for Irish families The 1st son was usually named after the father's father The 2nd son was usually named after the mother's father The 3rd son was usually named after the father The 4th son was usually named after the father's eldest brother The 5th son was usually named after the mother's eldest brother The 1st daughter was usually named after the mother's mother The 2nd daughter was usually named after the father's mother The 3rd daughter was usually named after the mother The 4th daughter was usually named after the mother's eldest sister The 5th daughter was usually named after the father's eldest sister Hope that this is of some help. Regards Bruce Cavanagh Gore NZ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.313 / Virus Database: 174 - Release Date: 2/01/02

Would some one be able to outline Scottish naming patterns for me please? Ian

Researching the below *****David OGILVY (Painter) of Edinburgh who married Catharina SPENCE on 2nd July 1801 at Tollbooth Church Parish Edinburgh *****Alexander OGILVY born 17th November 1802 (Occupation being Warehouse Keeper of the Stamps for Scotland Inland Revenue) Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland, married 1835 to Isabella WILLIAMSON *****David OGILVY born 26 Jun 1804 Edinburgh Parish Edinburgh Midlothian Scotland married 9 Sep 1841 Australia to Elizabeth Aitchison WILLIAMSON (sister of Isabella) *****William Spence OGILVY born 28/12/1806, Edinburgh Parish Edinburgh Midlothian Scotland *****John Spence OGILVY born 1806 Edinburgh Midlothian Scotland *****Catharine OGILVY born 16/12/1808, Edinburgh Parish Edinburgh Midlothian Scotland *****Thomas Davidson OGILVY born 1/10/1813 Edinburgh Midlothian Scotland *****Catharine OGILVY born 7/3/1811 Edinburgh Parish Edinburgh Midlothian Scotland, married 16/07/1850 to John WOOD-BEILBY *****Isabella BATHGATE born 1770, married 11 Sep 1805 to James WILLIAMSON at Old Church Parish Canongate, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland (Bathgate's family owned "Bathgate'sCandlemakers Co." of Falkirk and Edinburgh) *****James Williamson OGILVY married 1852 to Elizabeth Charlotte HOWE, then married 1892 to Alice Olive Nelson, then married 1909 to Jean Emily CARMICHAEL *****Mentioned in family notes a William OGILVY came out with brother David to Australia in 1839**** ****************************************** Any Scottish Edinburgh family information, especially on David and Catharina would be appreciated For My Ogilvy Web Site Click on http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ogdar/Ogilvy/ogilvy/ogilvy/ Regards, Colin Darby Australia colnet@optusnet.com.au

I have just reread the message and seen this bit. Is the stone at the main entrance or a side door? I think this is going to take a bit more unravelling.... ...I used to live opposite but it was 20 years ago..... Judy ---------- >From: "adderley@onthefrontlines.com" <adderley@onthefrontlines.com> > The building has a stone that reads "Canongate Christian Institute > 1878". Around the front door is a panel of glass with the street > number 271 and the words "Cranston House" etched in the glass. >

The 1894 Alan Godfrey map shows a church on the site at the top of Cranston St. I think the back of the building has also been used recently by the social work department. The map comes with a bit of(undated) post office directory which shows four entries for the address: the Clydesdale Bank (agent's name-may not have been a bank as such) and three other names with no trades or anything. The 1881 census index shows eight households including a young glass maker called James GORE. The 1881 census shows a 'christian inst" which going by the folio numbers was located in Cranston st itself, possibly at Number 4. The occupant was Wm BLYTH, a bootmaker. My guess is that this has caused the confusion. Your relatives were probably housed in a tenement which was next door to the Christian institute. The street may have been renumbered, but I think its more likely that the street numbers were missing or hard to interpret when you looked. A lot of shops in Edinburgh dont have a street number on them at all. The entry to the building might be up a passageway (a close) - there is one listed at 269. You may have noticed the Bank of Scotland on that side of the road - I have checked in the phone book and that is number 263. Another possibility is that the Institute expanded and took over the site of number 271. Perhaps at that point the entrance was moved to the Canongate side. Hope this helps. I expect others can add something to it. Cheers Judy ---------- >From: "adderley@onthefrontlines.com" <adderley@onthefrontlines.com> >To: SCT-EDINBURGH-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [EDB] question for the list >Date: Tue, Jan 8, 2002, 4:53 pm > > Hello all! > I've just returned to Canada from a trip to Scotland. Was mostly > visiting my husband's family near Glasgow, but I did manage to > sneak in a bit of genealogy when I visited Edinburgh (beautiful > city!!) and found the address listed on my great grandmother's > registration of birth. Imagine my surprise when I discovered that the > address in question, 271 Canongate (bottom end of the Royal > Mile), appears to be a church. > > The building has a stone that reads "Canongate Christian Institute > 1878". Around the front door is a panel of glass with the street > number 271 and the words "Cranston House" etched in the glass. > The building is now home to the Edinburgh English School. > > My great grandmother, Annie Gardner Myers, was born in 1879, so > presumably this building was there -- it's not a new addition to the > street. Her father listed his profession as foreman in a glassworks. snip

Just read the following on the PRO site: "The site remains unable to meet continuing levels of demand. The PRO has agreed with Qinetiq's technical team to close Internet access to the site for one week for enhancements to take place." -- Best Wishes Angela<boon.bluecats@ntlworld.com> Chase Bridge Class of '75 http://www.chasebridge75.co.uk/ Pettistree Homepage http://www.pettistree.suffolk.gov.uk/