Hi Judy, I was unable to find a baptism record for Isbella Rutherford born about 1846 to a William, at New Register House. I mistakenly researched Isabella Rutherford born 1846 Newhaven, North Leith, to William Rutherford and Christian Steele, for many years. This is the birth certificate I was sent. I visited Newhaven a few times and it was like a bereavement when I found out she was not mine. I had become very attached to her. You have got the correct Abbott family on the 1881 Census in Preston. The enumerator named the head of the household William, but it should be Peter. Peter's father William Abbott lived next door to him and was a provision dealer, but had formerly worked in the cotton industry. On the marriage certificate to Isabella Rutherford, William says his father was an accountant. I agree with you that most Rutherford's came from the border areas. They probably got their surname from the small place in the borders called Rutherford. I found a William Rutherford married to Jessie Balmer. He was a shepherd and they had a daughter Isabella born about the same time as mine, but I found Isabella's marriage. I found a William Rutherford in Paisley but he was an auctioneer and book seller. I also found an Isabella born about 1846 to a William Rutherford and Janet Hay, but their first daughter Isabella died and they had another daughter also named Isabella born about 1850. Thank you very much for sending me the newspaper extract about Peter's regiment arriving in Scotland. I paid a researcher to find his army record, as on one of the censuses it showed him as a pensioner. In 1872 Peter was a Private in the 2nd Batallion/6th Regiment at the Curragh Camp in Co. Kildare, Ireland. This is where one of his children was born. Another one was born in Belfast about 1874. He also served in Gibraltar, Ionian Islands and the West Indies. I bought a book written by a seargant major in the regiment and he kept a diary detailing their service in the West Indies and Edinburgh. In this he said about the ship not being able to land in Cork. I think this sergeant major went to live in Paisley then moved to Canada. I will dig the book out and let you know the details. Thank you for your help. Kind regards, Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "judy olsen" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD >I would say it is too soon to assume that William Rutherford was a > fiction. And I dont think a choice of birthplaces in the census in > any way suggests illegitimacy. You are relying on what was put on the > form by the householder. > > Having looked Isabella up in 1881 1891 and 1901, I was confused to > see 'William' ABBOTT as head of family in 1881 - have I got the wrong > family or is that an error? > > Anyway, he was head of household and it could be Edinburgh was where > he thought his wife was from. In 1819 she is a lodger and her > birthplace is just one of a lot of 'dittos' so plenty of room there > for error - but in 1901 she would have given her own details as she > was head of household. It could be wrong - Paisley could be the first > place she remembers living - but it is probably more reliable than > the others. and contains at least a clue. > > For example, my gt gt grandfather John WESTON gave his birthplace as > Shropshire or Oswestry until he was listed as a widower in his > daughters household. and it is given as Liverpool. She had probably > forgotten he came from Shropshire or maybe she never knew. > > The Ancestry censuses do show a RUTHERFORD family in Paisley, but for > me the name is really associated with south east Scotland, and the > census records bear this out, in terms of sheer numbers. It is also > an area with some pretty large farms including for instance at Maxton > where there were indeed RUTHERFORDs to be found farming. > > This part of Scotland is also one of the strongest areas for > religious dissent and this of course would mean that the births of > children would not be recorded in the parish registers. I do know of > one RUTHERFORD researcher who has found baptisms at one of the > Jedburgh dissenting/seceding churches for which records survive and I > suggest you search the rootsweb archives for SCT-ROXBURGH and BORDER. > > As for the occupation of coachman, that could have been a short-lived > thing that is not noted in a census. For example, the William > RUTHERFORD who was toll-keeper at Monteviot might have had a spell as > coachman to the family at the big house, who can tell. Or maybe it > was a case of 'bigging-up' the occupation of a groom or a ploughman. > But it is certainly true that as well as large and profitable farms > one thing the Scottish Borders has in abundance is big fancy houses. > Some of these were built for the aristos but others were built with > money made in India and again others were the result of the early > growth of tourism - holiday homes for the Edinburgh gentry or > pavilions used for fishing. > > The fact that 'nothing fits' in the census doesnt surprise or trouble > me. There are plenty of near misses where the fathers occupation may > have changed. Its also as well to remember that Isabella could have > lost her father early on - if he was not mentioned as deceased on her > marriage cert that doesnt mean he was living. Nor does it worry me > that Isabella is away from 'home' for her marriage - this was the > high Victorian period and basically all she had to do was get a > letter from Peter and jump on the next train. > > It is in fact Peter who may hold the best clues to Isabella. The > story of the storms doesnt sound very convincing to me because army > units went where they were posted. If you were going to Cork, Cork > would be where you went. But I would love to know which regiment he > was in as that would allow us to trace his movements with accuracy. > Did soldiers need permission to marry? There could be something in > the regimental records. > > There are so many hints and clues in this story I am sure you will > crack it in the end. > > > Judy > > > > > > > > > > > On 27 Dec 2006, at 21:44, pneanne wrote: > >> Hi Janet, Liz and June, >> >> Thank you for your replies. >> >> My great grandfather Peter Abbott had served in the army in the >> West Indies >> and was supposed to be sailing to Cork, but the weather was too bad >> and he >> ended up in Edinburgh. He served at the Castle for 12 months in >> about 1867. >> In 1869 he was in the Barracks in Newport, Monmouthshire and >> Isabella was in >> a lodging house and they were married in a catholic church nearby. >> I don't >> know weather she travelled there with him or followed him. Peter >> was a >> catholic and their children were brought up as catholics, but >> Isabella is >> buried in the Church of England part of Preston Cemetery and Peter >> is buried >> in the catholic part. >> >> They went to Ireland after their marriage and my grandma's brother and >> sister were born there. The children after them were born in Preston. >> >> They named their children William (Peter's father was called >> William) and >> Isabella said her father was also William, Peter, Elizabeth, Alice >> (Peter's >> mother's name), John and my grandma Ann Jane. >> >>> From this I would guess that Isabella's mother was also Isabella, >>> Elizabeth, >> Ann or Jane. >> >> Liz, I will do as you suggest and try other spellings of >> Rutherford. I know >> there can be some weird and wonderful transcriptions on Ancestry. >> >> June, I have gone sideways, backwards and forwards and everything >> else I can >> think of. Like you, I am just hoping something hits me in the >> face, that I >> have not thought of before. >> >> Unfortunately, I have no-one left that I can ask about their >> grandmother. >> The only thing I was told about her is that she was a good >> christian woman >> who read the bible every day and came from a big farm in Scotland. >> >> I am waiting for the 1911 Preston Census to come out, in the hope >> it gives a >> more accurate place of birth. I have read that it may be >> available in >> 2009. >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> Anne in Bolton. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Janet" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 5:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD >> >> >>> Anne. I just want to say, I sympathise with you in your >>> dilemma. I am >>> however rather puzzled that Peter Abbott and your Isabella were >>> married in >>> Newport, Wales when he was eventually posted to Edinburgh Castle >>> and then >>> Ireland. As a rule, we know that a marriage would have taken >>> place in the >>> Parish of the bride. Something doesn't quite fit, to my mind. >>> >>> As to the identity of the father of Isabella, I can empathise >>> here. My >>> own mother, illegitimate at birth, named her grandfather as her >>> father on >>> the occasion of her marriage to my father. >>> >>> The information in the three census records also doesn't seem to >>> fit, does >>> it. >>> >>> I am related to a number of Isabella females who came from big >>> farms in >>> Scotland. It is so that the Scottish naming patterns, when >>> applied, cause >>> confusion. I would however be inclined to accept the information >>> of your >>> grandmother, even though we know that grandmothers are given to a >>> slight >>> loss of detail, and inclined to romanticise, as mine was. >>> Nevertheless, as >>> to the basics I have found what my grandmother told me to be true. >>> >>> You're suffering from the migration syndrome where once they >>> removed to >>> another part of the country, i.e. Britain, anything is possible. >>> I have >>> something similar. >>> >>> I would however recommend you try looking for death certificates. >>> I have >>> found them amazingly useful, calculating dates of death, except, >>> with a >>> mind that early death is possible. Calculate your grandmother's >>> birth and >>> have an open mind from there. >>> >>> I realise that what I have said may have muddied the waters >>> somewhat, or >>> perhaps not. Don't give up. >>> >>> Janet >>> PS As I have been writing this two or three other responses have >>> come in >>> which I have not read. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "pneanne" <[email protected]> >>> >>> >>>> Please, please, please, can someone help me to find my great >>>> grandmother, >>>> >>>> I have been researching my family for over 20 years and have also >>>> helped >>>> numerous other people knock down their brick walls, so I am not a >>>> novice, >>>> but I am absolutely stuck on my great grandmother Isabella >>>> Rutherford >>>> born about 1846, Scotland. On the censuses her age is very >>>> consistent >>>> 1846/47. >>>> >>>> On her marriage to Peter Abbott of Preston, Lancashire she shows her >>>> father as William Rutherford, coachman. Peter and Isabella were >>>> married >>>> in Newport, Wales, as he was in the army. In 1871 he was >>>> stationed in >>>> Ireland, so I have not got her on the 1871 Census. >>>> >>>> Peter Abbott was stationed at Edinburgh Castle in the 1860's >>>> before they >>>> got married, so she may be from Edinburgh or was living there at the >>>> time. >>>> >>>> On the 1881 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as EDINBURGH. >>>> >>>> On the 1891 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PRESTON. >>>> >>>> On the 1901 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PAISLEY. >>>> >>>> Years ago, I sent for a birth certificate for Isabella >>>> Rutherford, born >>>> 1846 Edinburgh, father William Rutherford. I was sent the >>>> certificate for >>>> Isabella Rutherford, father William Rutherford, fisherman and >>>> Christian >>>> Steele, in Newhaven, North Leith. I researched this family for >>>> ages and >>>> travelled to Edinburgh a few times. I eventually discounted this >>>> family, >>>> as this Isabella was still in Newhaven, Leith in 1901. I have also >>>> discounted Isabella daughter of William Rutherford and Jessie >>>> Balmer. >>>> >>>> I have looked on the 1851 and 1861 Scotland Census Indexes on >>>> Ancestry >>>> and also looked for births on Scotland's People, but nothing fits. >>>> >>>> I am beginning to think that Isabella made up the name of her >>>> father. >>>> >>>> One piece of information I had from my auntie was that her >>>> grandmother >>>> Isabella came from a big farm. >>>> >>>> If anyone can help me I will be eternally grateful, as I would >>>> love to >>>> find her family and trace them further back. >>>> >>>> Kind regards, >>>> >>>> Anne in Bolton, Lancashire. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: >>> 26/12/2006 12:23 >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-EDINBURGH- >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/606 - Release Date: > 28/12/2006 00:22 > >

2nd Batt, 6th Regiment - seems to fit. http://www.regiments.org/deploy/uk/reg-inf/006-2.htm According to The Times they arrived in Edinburgh in May 1867 having come from Jamaica via Queenstown (aka Cork) but they had a "fine passage". I will send the story off list. Judy

I would say it is too soon to assume that William Rutherford was a fiction. And I dont think a choice of birthplaces in the census in any way suggests illegitimacy. You are relying on what was put on the form by the householder. Having looked Isabella up in 1881 1891 and 1901, I was confused to see 'William' ABBOTT as head of family in 1881 - have I got the wrong family or is that an error? Anyway, he was head of household and it could be Edinburgh was where he thought his wife was from. In 1819 she is a lodger and her birthplace is just one of a lot of 'dittos' so plenty of room there for error - but in 1901 she would have given her own details as she was head of household. It could be wrong - Paisley could be the first place she remembers living - but it is probably more reliable than the others. and contains at least a clue. For example, my gt gt grandfather John WESTON gave his birthplace as Shropshire or Oswestry until he was listed as a widower in his daughters household. and it is given as Liverpool. She had probably forgotten he came from Shropshire or maybe she never knew. The Ancestry censuses do show a RUTHERFORD family in Paisley, but for me the name is really associated with south east Scotland, and the census records bear this out, in terms of sheer numbers. It is also an area with some pretty large farms including for instance at Maxton where there were indeed RUTHERFORDs to be found farming. This part of Scotland is also one of the strongest areas for religious dissent and this of course would mean that the births of children would not be recorded in the parish registers. I do know of one RUTHERFORD researcher who has found baptisms at one of the Jedburgh dissenting/seceding churches for which records survive and I suggest you search the rootsweb archives for SCT-ROXBURGH and BORDER. As for the occupation of coachman, that could have been a short-lived thing that is not noted in a census. For example, the William RUTHERFORD who was toll-keeper at Monteviot might have had a spell as coachman to the family at the big house, who can tell. Or maybe it was a case of 'bigging-up' the occupation of a groom or a ploughman. But it is certainly true that as well as large and profitable farms one thing the Scottish Borders has in abundance is big fancy houses. Some of these were built for the aristos but others were built with money made in India and again others were the result of the early growth of tourism - holiday homes for the Edinburgh gentry or pavilions used for fishing. The fact that 'nothing fits' in the census doesnt surprise or trouble me. There are plenty of near misses where the fathers occupation may have changed. Its also as well to remember that Isabella could have lost her father early on - if he was not mentioned as deceased on her marriage cert that doesnt mean he was living. Nor does it worry me that Isabella is away from 'home' for her marriage - this was the high Victorian period and basically all she had to do was get a letter from Peter and jump on the next train. It is in fact Peter who may hold the best clues to Isabella. The story of the storms doesnt sound very convincing to me because army units went where they were posted. If you were going to Cork, Cork would be where you went. But I would love to know which regiment he was in as that would allow us to trace his movements with accuracy. Did soldiers need permission to marry? There could be something in the regimental records. There are so many hints and clues in this story I am sure you will crack it in the end. Judy On 27 Dec 2006, at 21:44, pneanne wrote: > Hi Janet, Liz and June, > > Thank you for your replies. > > My great grandfather Peter Abbott had served in the army in the > West Indies > and was supposed to be sailing to Cork, but the weather was too bad > and he > ended up in Edinburgh. He served at the Castle for 12 months in > about 1867. > In 1869 he was in the Barracks in Newport, Monmouthshire and > Isabella was in > a lodging house and they were married in a catholic church nearby. > I don't > know weather she travelled there with him or followed him. Peter > was a > catholic and their children were brought up as catholics, but > Isabella is > buried in the Church of England part of Preston Cemetery and Peter > is buried > in the catholic part. > > They went to Ireland after their marriage and my grandma's brother and > sister were born there. The children after them were born in Preston. > > They named their children William (Peter's father was called > William) and > Isabella said her father was also William, Peter, Elizabeth, Alice > (Peter's > mother's name), John and my grandma Ann Jane. > >> From this I would guess that Isabella's mother was also Isabella, >> Elizabeth, > Ann or Jane. > > Liz, I will do as you suggest and try other spellings of > Rutherford. I know > there can be some weird and wonderful transcriptions on Ancestry. > > June, I have gone sideways, backwards and forwards and everything > else I can > think of. Like you, I am just hoping something hits me in the > face, that I > have not thought of before. > > Unfortunately, I have no-one left that I can ask about their > grandmother. > The only thing I was told about her is that she was a good > christian woman > who read the bible every day and came from a big farm in Scotland. > > I am waiting for the 1911 Preston Census to come out, in the hope > it gives a > more accurate place of birth. I have read that it may be > available in > 2009. > > Best Wishes, > > Anne in Bolton. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janet" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 5:00 PM > Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD > > >> Anne. I just want to say, I sympathise with you in your >> dilemma. I am >> however rather puzzled that Peter Abbott and your Isabella were >> married in >> Newport, Wales when he was eventually posted to Edinburgh Castle >> and then >> Ireland. As a rule, we know that a marriage would have taken >> place in the >> Parish of the bride. Something doesn't quite fit, to my mind. >> >> As to the identity of the father of Isabella, I can empathise >> here. My >> own mother, illegitimate at birth, named her grandfather as her >> father on >> the occasion of her marriage to my father. >> >> The information in the three census records also doesn't seem to >> fit, does >> it. >> >> I am related to a number of Isabella females who came from big >> farms in >> Scotland. It is so that the Scottish naming patterns, when >> applied, cause >> confusion. I would however be inclined to accept the information >> of your >> grandmother, even though we know that grandmothers are given to a >> slight >> loss of detail, and inclined to romanticise, as mine was. >> Nevertheless, as >> to the basics I have found what my grandmother told me to be true. >> >> You're suffering from the migration syndrome where once they >> removed to >> another part of the country, i.e. Britain, anything is possible. >> I have >> something similar. >> >> I would however recommend you try looking for death certificates. >> I have >> found them amazingly useful, calculating dates of death, except, >> with a >> mind that early death is possible. Calculate your grandmother's >> birth and >> have an open mind from there. >> >> I realise that what I have said may have muddied the waters >> somewhat, or >> perhaps not. Don't give up. >> >> Janet >> PS As I have been writing this two or three other responses have >> come in >> which I have not read. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "pneanne" <[email protected]> >> >> >>> Please, please, please, can someone help me to find my great >>> grandmother, >>> >>> I have been researching my family for over 20 years and have also >>> helped >>> numerous other people knock down their brick walls, so I am not a >>> novice, >>> but I am absolutely stuck on my great grandmother Isabella >>> Rutherford >>> born about 1846, Scotland. On the censuses her age is very >>> consistent >>> 1846/47. >>> >>> On her marriage to Peter Abbott of Preston, Lancashire she shows her >>> father as William Rutherford, coachman. Peter and Isabella were >>> married >>> in Newport, Wales, as he was in the army. In 1871 he was >>> stationed in >>> Ireland, so I have not got her on the 1871 Census. >>> >>> Peter Abbott was stationed at Edinburgh Castle in the 1860's >>> before they >>> got married, so she may be from Edinburgh or was living there at the >>> time. >>> >>> On the 1881 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as EDINBURGH. >>> >>> On the 1891 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PRESTON. >>> >>> On the 1901 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PAISLEY. >>> >>> Years ago, I sent for a birth certificate for Isabella >>> Rutherford, born >>> 1846 Edinburgh, father William Rutherford. I was sent the >>> certificate for >>> Isabella Rutherford, father William Rutherford, fisherman and >>> Christian >>> Steele, in Newhaven, North Leith. I researched this family for >>> ages and >>> travelled to Edinburgh a few times. I eventually discounted this >>> family, >>> as this Isabella was still in Newhaven, Leith in 1901. I have also >>> discounted Isabella daughter of William Rutherford and Jessie >>> Balmer. >>> >>> I have looked on the 1851 and 1861 Scotland Census Indexes on >>> Ancestry >>> and also looked for births on Scotland's People, but nothing fits. >>> >>> I am beginning to think that Isabella made up the name of her >>> father. >>> >>> One piece of information I had from my auntie was that her >>> grandmother >>> Isabella came from a big farm. >>> >>> If anyone can help me I will be eternally grateful, as I would >>> love to >>> find her family and trace them further back. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Anne in Bolton, Lancashire. >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: >> 26/12/2006 12:23 >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-EDINBURGH- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Anne, I've had the same experience - I think you're right and that Isabella either did make up her father's name or was told that her father was William Rutherford to cover up her illegitimate birth. I'd be looking for an Isabella Rutherford born to a female Rutherford ca 1846/7 - that's if she didn't fib about her age :-) But where? The fact that none of the birthplaces agrees also suggests Isabella was illegitimate. Scotland seems more likely but then again my gggrandmother consistly gave her place of birth as Leven Dunbarton in every census - turned out she was born in Carnmoney Ireland! Good luck with your search. Regards Jan

Mary Dwyer born circa 1833 Edinburgh. Married 1853 John Hyland in London Stepney Middlesex England. Who was my Mary Dwyer? Who were her people? Does anyone have this person in their lineage?

Looking for parents or siblings of my gggf James Smith. A short biography of his son (my ggf) George (born 1814, Aberdeen) says than "James Smith, was one of three brothers, born near Edinburgh, Scotland. James was born about 1763, and was the only one to come to Canada. He was married to Patience Austin, of English birth" The birth year of 1763 does not agree well with the age at time of death as carved on James' gravestone "In Memory, James Smith, of the city of Aberdeen Scotland, died June 12 - 1844 at the Brantford Nursery, Age 69 years" A birth year of somewhere between 1763 and 1775 is thus possible (not much help with a name of Smith). While living at Aberdeen (after his marriage in 1808 at London) during the years 1809-1835, James worked as a gardener and then as a nurseryman . The farm where James Smith died in 1844 was called Newington Farm, and I recently happened to discover (rather belatedly) that Newington is a district of Edinburgh, which fits well with James' biography. James' first son was named William (born 1811, Aberdeen). On the assumption that James was born in the district of Newington (which appears to be in the parish of St. Cuthberts), and that James' father was named William, I had a look in the IGI for James Smith, son of William, baptized at St. Cuthberts, born between 1760 and 1777 (batches C119869 and C119871). There were only two records found: James Smith, bapt. 2 Mar 1776, son of William Smith and Margaret Laing James Smith, bapt. 16 Nov 1775, son of William Smith and Maragret Reid. (I also discovered from Ancestry.com that William Smith, husband of Margaret Laing, was a gardener) I would appreciate hearing from any list member who knows of or can help me eliminate either (or both) of the above two candidates. Peter Smith

Hi All I am searching for Agnes born about 1808 and according to 1861 & 1871 Aberdeen census records she was born at Edinburgh Castle. Her parents were John SMITH & Catherine MONEY (according to her death certificate). She married a William STEPHEN around 1837. Can anybody help me with finding this elusive ancestor and finally break another wall down. Peter Thomson

Yes, that is a lot of work and you may not get anything - and the 2011 wont be long now Liz >Hi Liz, > >I am in Bolton, about 20 miles from Preston. I think the price is £45, but >you need to have the exact address. They will only look at that address >and >will not do any searches. > >I am thinking of paying £45, but it may say she was born in Preston again, >which will be wrong. Also I will have to go to Preston Library to look at >the Electoral Register for 1911 to see if it shows where she lived at the >time. I am not sure if it shows women. She was widowed by then. > >Anne >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Liz Parkinson" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 10:03 PM >Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD > > > > Anne, there is a way of getting some information off censuses early - > > although I think you need to have an address to be searched for not a > > name - > > but it is expensive, about £50.00 > > > > Where do you live? are you near to Preston > > > > Liz > >> > >>Hi Janet, Liz and June, > >> > >>Thank you for your replies. > >> > >>My great grandfather Peter Abbott had served in the army in the West > >>Indies > >>and was supposed to be sailing to Cork, but the weather was too bad and >he > >>ended up in Edinburgh. He served at the Castle for 12 months in about > >>1867. > >>In 1869 he was in the Barracks in Newport, Monmouthshire and Isabella >was > >>in > >>a lodging house and they were married in a catholic church nearby. I > >>don't > >>know weather she travelled there with him or followed him. Peter was a > >>catholic and their children were brought up as catholics, but Isabella >is > >>buried in the Church of England part of Preston Cemetery and Peter is > >>buried > >>in the catholic part. > >> > >>They went to Ireland after their marriage and my grandma's brother and > >>sister were born there. The children after them were born in Preston. > >> > >>They named their children William (Peter's father was called William) >and > >>Isabella said her father was also William, Peter, Elizabeth, Alice > >>(Peter's > >>mother's name), John and my grandma Ann Jane. > >> > >> >From this I would guess that Isabella's mother was also Isabella, > >>Elizabeth, > >>Ann or Jane. > >> > >>Liz, I will do as you suggest and try other spellings of Rutherford. I > >>know > >>there can be some weird and wonderful transcriptions on Ancestry. > >> > >>June, I have gone sideways, backwards and forwards and everything else I > >>can > >>think of. Like you, I am just hoping something hits me in the face, >that > >>I > >>have not thought of before. > >> > >>Unfortunately, I have no-one left that I can ask about their >grandmother. > >>The only thing I was told about her is that she was a good christian >woman > >>who read the bible every day and came from a big farm in Scotland. > >> > >>I am waiting for the 1911 Preston Census to come out, in the hope it >gives > >>a > >>more accurate place of birth. I have read that it may be available in > >>2009. > >> > >>Best Wishes, > >> > >>Anne in Bolton. > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Janet" <[email protected]> > >>To: <[email protected]> > >>Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 5:00 PM > >>Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD > >> > >> > >> > Anne. I just want to say, I sympathise with you in your dilemma. I > >> > am > >> > however rather puzzled that Peter Abbott and your Isabella were >married > >>in > >> > Newport, Wales when he was eventually posted to Edinburgh Castle and > >>then > >> > Ireland. As a rule, we know that a marriage would have taken place >in > >>the > >> > Parish of the bride. Something doesn't quite fit, to my mind. > >> > > >> > As to the identity of the father of Isabella, I can empathise here. >My > >> > own mother, illegitimate at birth, named her grandfather as her >father > >>on > >> > the occasion of her marriage to my father. > >> > > >> > The information in the three census records also doesn't seem to fit, > >>does > >> > it. > >> > > >> > I am related to a number of Isabella females who came from big farms >in > >> > Scotland. It is so that the Scottish naming patterns, when applied, > >>cause > >> > confusion. I would however be inclined to accept the information of > >>your > >> > grandmother, even though we know that grandmothers are given to a > >> > slight > >> > loss of detail, and inclined to romanticise, as mine was. >Nevertheless, > >>as > >> > to the basics I have found what my grandmother told me to be true. > >> > > >> > You're suffering from the migration syndrome where once they removed >to > >> > another part of the country, i.e. Britain, anything is possible. I > >> > have > >> > something similar. > >> > > >> > I would however recommend you try looking for death certificates. I > >>have > >> > found them amazingly useful, calculating dates of death, except, with >a > >> > mind that early death is possible. Calculate your grandmother's >birth > >>and > >> > have an open mind from there. > >> > > >> > I realise that what I have said may have muddied the waters somewhat, > >> > or > >> > perhaps not. Don't give up. > >> > > >> > Janet > >> > PS As I have been writing this two or three other responses have come > >> > in > >> > which I have not read. > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "pneanne" <[email protected]> > >> > > >> > > >> >> Please, please, please, can someone help me to find my great > >>grandmother, > >> >> > >> >> I have been researching my family for over 20 years and have also > >>helped > >> >> numerous other people knock down their brick walls, so I am not a > >>novice, > >> >> but I am absolutely stuck on my great grandmother Isabella >Rutherford > >> >> born about 1846, Scotland. On the censuses her age is very >consistent > >> >> 1846/47. > >> >> > >> >> On her marriage to Peter Abbott of Preston, Lancashire she shows her > >> >> father as William Rutherford, coachman. Peter and Isabella were > >> >> married > >> >> in Newport, Wales, as he was in the army. In 1871 he was stationed >in > >> >> Ireland, so I have not got her on the 1871 Census. > >> >> > >> >> Peter Abbott was stationed at Edinburgh Castle in the 1860's before > >>they > >> >> got married, so she may be from Edinburgh or was living there at the > >> >> time. > >> >> > >> >> On the 1881 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as EDINBURGH. > >> >> > >> >> On the 1891 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PRESTON. > >> >> > >> >> On the 1901 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PAISLEY. > >> >> > >> >> Years ago, I sent for a birth certificate for Isabella Rutherford, > >> >> born > >> >> 1846 Edinburgh, father William Rutherford. I was sent the >certificate > >>for > >> >> Isabella Rutherford, father William Rutherford, fisherman and > >> >> Christian > >> >> Steele, in Newhaven, North Leith. I researched this family for ages > >> >> and > >> >> travelled to Edinburgh a few times. I eventually discounted this > >>family, > >> >> as this Isabella was still in Newhaven, Leith in 1901. I have also > >> >> discounted Isabella daughter of William Rutherford and Jessie >Balmer. > >> >> > >> >> I have looked on the 1851 and 1861 Scotland Census Indexes on >Ancestry > >> >> and also looked for births on Scotland's People, but nothing fits. > >> >> > >> >> I am beginning to think that Isabella made up the name of her >father. > >> >> > >> >> One piece of information I had from my auntie was that her >grandmother > >> >> Isabella came from a big farm. > >> >> > >> >> If anyone can help me I will be eternally grateful, as I would love >to > >> >> find her family and trace them further back. > >> >> > >> >> Kind regards, > >> >> > >> >> Anne in Bolton, Lancashire. > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >without > >>the > >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. > >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: > >> > 26/12/2006 12:23 > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >>------------------------------- > >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the > >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Windows LiveT Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! > > http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb > > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: 26/12/2006 >12:23 > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ MSN Hotmail is evolving – check out the new Windows Live Mail http://ideas.live.com

I chose not to either for one of mine, and was glad I didnt because when the 1901 came out, it wouldnt have got me much further! Liz >From: "Janet" <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD >Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:00:38 -0000 > >If it were me, I wouldnt spend £50 on an uncertainty. I admit to having >paid about that much for an extensive search of records, but I really do >mean extensive, by a Library. I think that sort of fee has to be a last >ditch effort. I agree, others may not share this view. > >Janet > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Liz Parkinson" <[email protected]> > > > > Anne, there is a way of getting some information off censuses early - > > although I think you need to have an address to be searched for not a >name - > > but it is expensive, about £50.00 > > > > Where do you live? are you near to Preston > > > > Liz > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Find Singles In Your Area This Christmas With Match.com! msnuk.match.com

Second thoughts, I would be inclined to ask a researcher whose fees I approved in the first place. How about http://www.kinhelp.co.uk/ I know he is genuine. Ask him first for an opinion perhaps. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet" <[email protected]> If it were me, I wouldnt spend £50 on an uncertainty. I admit to having paid about that much for an extensive search of records, but I really do mean extensive, by a Library. I think that sort of fee has to be a last ditch effort. I agree, others may not share this view. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Parkinson" <[email protected]> > Anne, there is a way of getting some information off censuses early - > although I think you need to have an address to be searched for not a name - > but it is expensive, about £50.00 > > Where do you live? are you near to Preston > > Liz

If it were me, I wouldnt spend £50 on an uncertainty. I admit to having paid about that much for an extensive search of records, but I really do mean extensive, by a Library. I think that sort of fee has to be a last ditch effort. I agree, others may not share this view. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Parkinson" <[email protected]> > Anne, there is a way of getting some information off censuses early - > although I think you need to have an address to be searched for not a name - > but it is expensive, about £50.00 > > Where do you live? are you near to Preston > > Liz

I dont have the censuses, but this sounds a very promising family Liz - in Stockport > >I have done as Liz suggested and checked the 1851 Census Index on Ancestry >for Edinburgh, just entering Isabella born 1846 Edinburgh. > >I have gone through all the surnames and I have found a family called >Gunnfunde living at 27 N. Rich Street, Edinburgh C55CT 1851-182 Line 5 >Household Schedule 44. > >William Gunnfunde 50 born Fifeshire >Elizabeth Gunnfunde 19 >Euphemia Gunnfunde 11 >Isabella Gunnfunde 9 > >Would SKS, who has the 1851 Census for Edinburgh, please check this family >to see if the surname has been wrongly transcribed and should be Rutherford >and to see what William's occupation was. I would be very grateful. > >Best Wishes, > >Anne in Bolton. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Liz Parkinson" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 4:49 PM >Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD > > > >I have been throught this my 4 x gt grandmother, looking for her birth >and > > her death, and came to the conclusions she must have been beamed down by > > aliens, and either have been beamed off again or was sitting in the >corner > > of a residential home aged 204 and no-one realised that when she talked >of > > the French Wars she was actually reminiscing. She was also an > > Isabella/ela/el/elle! On her marriage records (pre 1837) her name, not > > written by her she signed with a X, was either Greaves or Geaves >depending > > on whether or not you took the ink blob on one occurence to be an R or >an > > ink blob. > > > > She turned out to be Isabella JAVES. So, have you tried looking for > > bizarre spelling mistakes. Dutherford, Sutherford, Wutherford etc. > > However bizarre - I too am experienced but would never ever have looked > > for > > Javes because it is so obscure I had never known anyone by that name, >and > > it > > took someone who had to think of it. > > > > Less likely - could she have been illegitimate and known by a different > > name > > to her father, or could her mother have remarried after being widowed >and > > Isabella said that her father was William Rutherford when in fact in he > > was > > really her step father. > > > > Or, could she simply have been beamed down by aliens :-) > > > > As for my Isabel*** JAVES, she did die, but the aliens must have >reclaimed > > her body as she wasnt buried anywhere - and I have tracked down all the > > family graves for that group of people! > > > > HTH > > > > Liz P > > > > > >>From: "pneanne" <[email protected]> > >>Reply-To: [email protected] > >>To: <[email protected]> > >>Subject: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD > >>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 15:42:49 -0000 > >> > >>Please, please, please, can someone help me to find my great >grandmother, > >> > >>I have been researching my family for over 20 years and have also helped > >>numerous other people knock down their brick walls, so I am not a >novice, > >>but I am absolutely stuck on my great grandmother Isabella Rutherford >born > >>about 1846, Scotland. On the censuses her age is very consistent >1846/47. > >> > >>On her marriage to Peter Abbott of Preston, Lancashire she shows her > >>father > >>as William Rutherford, coachman. Peter and Isabella were married in > >>Newport, Wales, as he was in the army. In 1871 he was stationed in > >>Ireland, > >>so I have not got her on the 1871 Census. > >> > >>Peter Abbott was stationed at Edinburgh Castle in the 1860's before they > >>got married, so she may be from Edinburgh or was living there at the >time. > >> > >>On the 1881 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as EDINBURGH. > >> > >>On the 1891 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PRESTON. > >> > >>On the 1901 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PAISLEY. > >> > >>Years ago, I sent for a birth certificate for Isabella Rutherford, born > >>1846 Edinburgh, father William Rutherford. I was sent the certificate >for > >>Isabella Rutherford, father William Rutherford, fisherman and Christian > >>Steele, in Newhaven, North Leith. I researched this family for ages and > >>travelled to Edinburgh a few times. I eventually discounted this family, > >>as > >>this Isabella was still in Newhaven, Leith in 1901. I have also > >>discounted Isabella daughter of William Rutherford and Jessie Balmer. > >> > >>I have looked on the 1851 and 1861 Scotland Census Indexes on Ancestry >and > >>also looked for births on Scotland's People, but nothing fits. > >> > >>I am beginning to think that Isabella made up the name of her father. > >> > >>One piece of information I had from my auntie was that her grandmother > >>Isabella came from a big farm. > >> > >>If anyone can help me I will be eternally grateful, as I would love to > >>find > >>her family and trace them further back. > >> > >>Kind regards, > >> > >>Anne in Bolton, Lancashire. > >> > >>------------------------------- > >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the > >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Find Singles In Your Area This Christmas With Match.com! msnuk.match.com > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: > > 26/12/2006 12:23 > > > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ MSN Hotmail is evolving – check out the new Windows Live Mail http://ideas.live.com

Hi Liz, I am in Bolton, about 20 miles from Preston. I think the price is £45, but you need to have the exact address. They will only look at that address and will not do any searches. I am thinking of paying £45, but it may say she was born in Preston again, which will be wrong. Also I will have to go to Preston Library to look at the Electoral Register for 1911 to see if it shows where she lived at the time. I am not sure if it shows women. She was widowed by then. Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Parkinson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD > Anne, there is a way of getting some information off censuses early - > although I think you need to have an address to be searched for not a > name - > but it is expensive, about £50.00 > > Where do you live? are you near to Preston > > Liz >> >>Hi Janet, Liz and June, >> >>Thank you for your replies. >> >>My great grandfather Peter Abbott had served in the army in the West >>Indies >>and was supposed to be sailing to Cork, but the weather was too bad and he >>ended up in Edinburgh. He served at the Castle for 12 months in about >>1867. >>In 1869 he was in the Barracks in Newport, Monmouthshire and Isabella was >>in >>a lodging house and they were married in a catholic church nearby. I >>don't >>know weather she travelled there with him or followed him. Peter was a >>catholic and their children were brought up as catholics, but Isabella is >>buried in the Church of England part of Preston Cemetery and Peter is >>buried >>in the catholic part. >> >>They went to Ireland after their marriage and my grandma's brother and >>sister were born there. The children after them were born in Preston. >> >>They named their children William (Peter's father was called William) and >>Isabella said her father was also William, Peter, Elizabeth, Alice >>(Peter's >>mother's name), John and my grandma Ann Jane. >> >> >From this I would guess that Isabella's mother was also Isabella, >>Elizabeth, >>Ann or Jane. >> >>Liz, I will do as you suggest and try other spellings of Rutherford. I >>know >>there can be some weird and wonderful transcriptions on Ancestry. >> >>June, I have gone sideways, backwards and forwards and everything else I >>can >>think of. Like you, I am just hoping something hits me in the face, that >>I >>have not thought of before. >> >>Unfortunately, I have no-one left that I can ask about their grandmother. >>The only thing I was told about her is that she was a good christian woman >>who read the bible every day and came from a big farm in Scotland. >> >>I am waiting for the 1911 Preston Census to come out, in the hope it gives >>a >>more accurate place of birth. I have read that it may be available in >>2009. >> >>Best Wishes, >> >>Anne in Bolton. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Janet" <[email protected]> >>To: <[email protected]> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 5:00 PM >>Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD >> >> >> > Anne. I just want to say, I sympathise with you in your dilemma. I >> > am >> > however rather puzzled that Peter Abbott and your Isabella were married >>in >> > Newport, Wales when he was eventually posted to Edinburgh Castle and >>then >> > Ireland. As a rule, we know that a marriage would have taken place in >>the >> > Parish of the bride. Something doesn't quite fit, to my mind. >> > >> > As to the identity of the father of Isabella, I can empathise here. My >> > own mother, illegitimate at birth, named her grandfather as her father >>on >> > the occasion of her marriage to my father. >> > >> > The information in the three census records also doesn't seem to fit, >>does >> > it. >> > >> > I am related to a number of Isabella females who came from big farms in >> > Scotland. It is so that the Scottish naming patterns, when applied, >>cause >> > confusion. I would however be inclined to accept the information of >>your >> > grandmother, even though we know that grandmothers are given to a >> > slight >> > loss of detail, and inclined to romanticise, as mine was. Nevertheless, >>as >> > to the basics I have found what my grandmother told me to be true. >> > >> > You're suffering from the migration syndrome where once they removed to >> > another part of the country, i.e. Britain, anything is possible. I >> > have >> > something similar. >> > >> > I would however recommend you try looking for death certificates. I >>have >> > found them amazingly useful, calculating dates of death, except, with a >> > mind that early death is possible. Calculate your grandmother's birth >>and >> > have an open mind from there. >> > >> > I realise that what I have said may have muddied the waters somewhat, >> > or >> > perhaps not. Don't give up. >> > >> > Janet >> > PS As I have been writing this two or three other responses have come >> > in >> > which I have not read. >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "pneanne" <[email protected]> >> > >> > >> >> Please, please, please, can someone help me to find my great >>grandmother, >> >> >> >> I have been researching my family for over 20 years and have also >>helped >> >> numerous other people knock down their brick walls, so I am not a >>novice, >> >> but I am absolutely stuck on my great grandmother Isabella Rutherford >> >> born about 1846, Scotland. On the censuses her age is very consistent >> >> 1846/47. >> >> >> >> On her marriage to Peter Abbott of Preston, Lancashire she shows her >> >> father as William Rutherford, coachman. Peter and Isabella were >> >> married >> >> in Newport, Wales, as he was in the army. In 1871 he was stationed in >> >> Ireland, so I have not got her on the 1871 Census. >> >> >> >> Peter Abbott was stationed at Edinburgh Castle in the 1860's before >>they >> >> got married, so she may be from Edinburgh or was living there at the >> >> time. >> >> >> >> On the 1881 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as EDINBURGH. >> >> >> >> On the 1891 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PRESTON. >> >> >> >> On the 1901 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PAISLEY. >> >> >> >> Years ago, I sent for a birth certificate for Isabella Rutherford, >> >> born >> >> 1846 Edinburgh, father William Rutherford. I was sent the certificate >>for >> >> Isabella Rutherford, father William Rutherford, fisherman and >> >> Christian >> >> Steele, in Newhaven, North Leith. I researched this family for ages >> >> and >> >> travelled to Edinburgh a few times. I eventually discounted this >>family, >> >> as this Isabella was still in Newhaven, Leith in 1901. I have also >> >> discounted Isabella daughter of William Rutherford and Jessie Balmer. >> >> >> >> I have looked on the 1851 and 1861 Scotland Census Indexes on Ancestry >> >> and also looked for births on Scotland's People, but nothing fits. >> >> >> >> I am beginning to think that Isabella made up the name of her father. >> >> >> >> One piece of information I had from my auntie was that her grandmother >> >> Isabella came from a big farm. >> >> >> >> If anyone can help me I will be eternally grateful, as I would love to >> >> find her family and trace them further back. >> >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> >> >> Anne in Bolton, Lancashire. >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > -- >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: >> > 26/12/2006 12:23 >> > >> > >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows LiveT Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! > http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: 26/12/2006 12:23

Anne, there is a way of getting some information off censuses early - although I think you need to have an address to be searched for not a name - but it is expensive, about £50.00 Where do you live? are you near to Preston Liz > >Hi Janet, Liz and June, > >Thank you for your replies. > >My great grandfather Peter Abbott had served in the army in the West Indies >and was supposed to be sailing to Cork, but the weather was too bad and he >ended up in Edinburgh. He served at the Castle for 12 months in about >1867. >In 1869 he was in the Barracks in Newport, Monmouthshire and Isabella was >in >a lodging house and they were married in a catholic church nearby. I don't >know weather she travelled there with him or followed him. Peter was a >catholic and their children were brought up as catholics, but Isabella is >buried in the Church of England part of Preston Cemetery and Peter is >buried >in the catholic part. > >They went to Ireland after their marriage and my grandma's brother and >sister were born there. The children after them were born in Preston. > >They named their children William (Peter's father was called William) and >Isabella said her father was also William, Peter, Elizabeth, Alice (Peter's >mother's name), John and my grandma Ann Jane. > > >From this I would guess that Isabella's mother was also Isabella, >Elizabeth, >Ann or Jane. > >Liz, I will do as you suggest and try other spellings of Rutherford. I >know >there can be some weird and wonderful transcriptions on Ancestry. > >June, I have gone sideways, backwards and forwards and everything else I >can >think of. Like you, I am just hoping something hits me in the face, that I >have not thought of before. > >Unfortunately, I have no-one left that I can ask about their grandmother. >The only thing I was told about her is that she was a good christian woman >who read the bible every day and came from a big farm in Scotland. > >I am waiting for the 1911 Preston Census to come out, in the hope it gives >a >more accurate place of birth. I have read that it may be available in >2009. > >Best Wishes, > >Anne in Bolton. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Janet" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 5:00 PM >Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD > > > > Anne. I just want to say, I sympathise with you in your dilemma. I am > > however rather puzzled that Peter Abbott and your Isabella were married >in > > Newport, Wales when he was eventually posted to Edinburgh Castle and >then > > Ireland. As a rule, we know that a marriage would have taken place in >the > > Parish of the bride. Something doesn't quite fit, to my mind. > > > > As to the identity of the father of Isabella, I can empathise here. My > > own mother, illegitimate at birth, named her grandfather as her father >on > > the occasion of her marriage to my father. > > > > The information in the three census records also doesn't seem to fit, >does > > it. > > > > I am related to a number of Isabella females who came from big farms in > > Scotland. It is so that the Scottish naming patterns, when applied, >cause > > confusion. I would however be inclined to accept the information of >your > > grandmother, even though we know that grandmothers are given to a slight > > loss of detail, and inclined to romanticise, as mine was. Nevertheless, >as > > to the basics I have found what my grandmother told me to be true. > > > > You're suffering from the migration syndrome where once they removed to > > another part of the country, i.e. Britain, anything is possible. I have > > something similar. > > > > I would however recommend you try looking for death certificates. I >have > > found them amazingly useful, calculating dates of death, except, with a > > mind that early death is possible. Calculate your grandmother's birth >and > > have an open mind from there. > > > > I realise that what I have said may have muddied the waters somewhat, or > > perhaps not. Don't give up. > > > > Janet > > PS As I have been writing this two or three other responses have come in > > which I have not read. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "pneanne" <[email protected]> > > > > > >> Please, please, please, can someone help me to find my great >grandmother, > >> > >> I have been researching my family for over 20 years and have also >helped > >> numerous other people knock down their brick walls, so I am not a >novice, > >> but I am absolutely stuck on my great grandmother Isabella Rutherford > >> born about 1846, Scotland. On the censuses her age is very consistent > >> 1846/47. > >> > >> On her marriage to Peter Abbott of Preston, Lancashire she shows her > >> father as William Rutherford, coachman. Peter and Isabella were married > >> in Newport, Wales, as he was in the army. In 1871 he was stationed in > >> Ireland, so I have not got her on the 1871 Census. > >> > >> Peter Abbott was stationed at Edinburgh Castle in the 1860's before >they > >> got married, so she may be from Edinburgh or was living there at the > >> time. > >> > >> On the 1881 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as EDINBURGH. > >> > >> On the 1891 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PRESTON. > >> > >> On the 1901 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PAISLEY. > >> > >> Years ago, I sent for a birth certificate for Isabella Rutherford, born > >> 1846 Edinburgh, father William Rutherford. I was sent the certificate >for > >> Isabella Rutherford, father William Rutherford, fisherman and Christian > >> Steele, in Newhaven, North Leith. I researched this family for ages and > >> travelled to Edinburgh a few times. I eventually discounted this >family, > >> as this Isabella was still in Newhaven, Leith in 1901. I have also > >> discounted Isabella daughter of William Rutherford and Jessie Balmer. > >> > >> I have looked on the 1851 and 1861 Scotland Census Indexes on Ancestry > >> and also looked for births on Scotland's People, but nothing fits. > >> > >> I am beginning to think that Isabella made up the name of her father. > >> > >> One piece of information I had from my auntie was that her grandmother > >> Isabella came from a big farm. > >> > >> If anyone can help me I will be eternally grateful, as I would love to > >> find her family and trace them further back. > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> > >> Anne in Bolton, Lancashire. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: > > 26/12/2006 12:23 > > > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb

I have done as Liz suggested and checked the 1851 Census Index on Ancestry for Edinburgh, just entering Isabella born 1846 Edinburgh. I have gone through all the surnames and I have found a family called Gunnfunde living at 27 N. Rich Street, Edinburgh C55CT 1851-182 Line 5 Household Schedule 44. William Gunnfunde 50 born Fifeshire Elizabeth Gunnfunde 19 Euphemia Gunnfunde 11 Isabella Gunnfunde 9 Would SKS, who has the 1851 Census for Edinburgh, please check this family to see if the surname has been wrongly transcribed and should be Rutherford and to see what William's occupation was. I would be very grateful. Best Wishes, Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Parkinson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD >I have been throught this my 4 x gt grandmother, looking for her birth and > her death, and came to the conclusions she must have been beamed down by > aliens, and either have been beamed off again or was sitting in the corner > of a residential home aged 204 and no-one realised that when she talked of > the French Wars she was actually reminiscing. She was also an > Isabella/ela/el/elle! On her marriage records (pre 1837) her name, not > written by her she signed with a X, was either Greaves or Geaves depending > on whether or not you took the ink blob on one occurence to be an R or an > ink blob. > > She turned out to be Isabella JAVES. So, have you tried looking for > bizarre spelling mistakes. Dutherford, Sutherford, Wutherford etc. > However bizarre - I too am experienced but would never ever have looked > for > Javes because it is so obscure I had never known anyone by that name, and > it > took someone who had to think of it. > > Less likely - could she have been illegitimate and known by a different > name > to her father, or could her mother have remarried after being widowed and > Isabella said that her father was William Rutherford when in fact in he > was > really her step father. > > Or, could she simply have been beamed down by aliens :-) > > As for my Isabel*** JAVES, she did die, but the aliens must have reclaimed > her body as she wasnt buried anywhere - and I have tracked down all the > family graves for that group of people! > > HTH > > Liz P > > >>From: "pneanne" <[email protected]> >>Reply-To: [email protected] >>To: <[email protected]> >>Subject: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD >>Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 15:42:49 -0000 >> >>Please, please, please, can someone help me to find my great grandmother, >> >>I have been researching my family for over 20 years and have also helped >>numerous other people knock down their brick walls, so I am not a novice, >>but I am absolutely stuck on my great grandmother Isabella Rutherford born >>about 1846, Scotland. On the censuses her age is very consistent 1846/47. >> >>On her marriage to Peter Abbott of Preston, Lancashire she shows her >>father >>as William Rutherford, coachman. Peter and Isabella were married in >>Newport, Wales, as he was in the army. In 1871 he was stationed in >>Ireland, >>so I have not got her on the 1871 Census. >> >>Peter Abbott was stationed at Edinburgh Castle in the 1860's before they >>got married, so she may be from Edinburgh or was living there at the time. >> >>On the 1881 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as EDINBURGH. >> >>On the 1891 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PRESTON. >> >>On the 1901 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PAISLEY. >> >>Years ago, I sent for a birth certificate for Isabella Rutherford, born >>1846 Edinburgh, father William Rutherford. I was sent the certificate for >>Isabella Rutherford, father William Rutherford, fisherman and Christian >>Steele, in Newhaven, North Leith. I researched this family for ages and >>travelled to Edinburgh a few times. I eventually discounted this family, >>as >>this Isabella was still in Newhaven, Leith in 1901. I have also >>discounted Isabella daughter of William Rutherford and Jessie Balmer. >> >>I have looked on the 1851 and 1861 Scotland Census Indexes on Ancestry and >>also looked for births on Scotland's People, but nothing fits. >> >>I am beginning to think that Isabella made up the name of her father. >> >>One piece of information I had from my auntie was that her grandmother >>Isabella came from a big farm. >> >>If anyone can help me I will be eternally grateful, as I would love to >>find >>her family and trace them further back. >> >>Kind regards, >> >>Anne in Bolton, Lancashire. >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find Singles In Your Area This Christmas With Match.com! msnuk.match.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: > 26/12/2006 12:23 > >

Hi Janet, Liz and June, Thank you for your replies. My great grandfather Peter Abbott had served in the army in the West Indies and was supposed to be sailing to Cork, but the weather was too bad and he ended up in Edinburgh. He served at the Castle for 12 months in about 1867. In 1869 he was in the Barracks in Newport, Monmouthshire and Isabella was in a lodging house and they were married in a catholic church nearby. I don't know weather she travelled there with him or followed him. Peter was a catholic and their children were brought up as catholics, but Isabella is buried in the Church of England part of Preston Cemetery and Peter is buried in the catholic part. They went to Ireland after their marriage and my grandma's brother and sister were born there. The children after them were born in Preston. They named their children William (Peter's father was called William) and Isabella said her father was also William, Peter, Elizabeth, Alice (Peter's mother's name), John and my grandma Ann Jane. >From this I would guess that Isabella's mother was also Isabella, Elizabeth, Ann or Jane. Liz, I will do as you suggest and try other spellings of Rutherford. I know there can be some weird and wonderful transcriptions on Ancestry. June, I have gone sideways, backwards and forwards and everything else I can think of. Like you, I am just hoping something hits me in the face, that I have not thought of before. Unfortunately, I have no-one left that I can ask about their grandmother. The only thing I was told about her is that she was a good christian woman who read the bible every day and came from a big farm in Scotland. I am waiting for the 1911 Preston Census to come out, in the hope it gives a more accurate place of birth. I have read that it may be available in 2009. Best Wishes, Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD > Anne. I just want to say, I sympathise with you in your dilemma. I am > however rather puzzled that Peter Abbott and your Isabella were married in > Newport, Wales when he was eventually posted to Edinburgh Castle and then > Ireland. As a rule, we know that a marriage would have taken place in the > Parish of the bride. Something doesn't quite fit, to my mind. > > As to the identity of the father of Isabella, I can empathise here. My > own mother, illegitimate at birth, named her grandfather as her father on > the occasion of her marriage to my father. > > The information in the three census records also doesn't seem to fit, does > it. > > I am related to a number of Isabella females who came from big farms in > Scotland. It is so that the Scottish naming patterns, when applied, cause > confusion. I would however be inclined to accept the information of your > grandmother, even though we know that grandmothers are given to a slight > loss of detail, and inclined to romanticise, as mine was. Nevertheless, as > to the basics I have found what my grandmother told me to be true. > > You're suffering from the migration syndrome where once they removed to > another part of the country, i.e. Britain, anything is possible. I have > something similar. > > I would however recommend you try looking for death certificates. I have > found them amazingly useful, calculating dates of death, except, with a > mind that early death is possible. Calculate your grandmother's birth and > have an open mind from there. > > I realise that what I have said may have muddied the waters somewhat, or > perhaps not. Don't give up. > > Janet > PS As I have been writing this two or three other responses have come in > which I have not read. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "pneanne" <[email protected]> > > >> Please, please, please, can someone help me to find my great grandmother, >> >> I have been researching my family for over 20 years and have also helped >> numerous other people knock down their brick walls, so I am not a novice, >> but I am absolutely stuck on my great grandmother Isabella Rutherford >> born about 1846, Scotland. On the censuses her age is very consistent >> 1846/47. >> >> On her marriage to Peter Abbott of Preston, Lancashire she shows her >> father as William Rutherford, coachman. Peter and Isabella were married >> in Newport, Wales, as he was in the army. In 1871 he was stationed in >> Ireland, so I have not got her on the 1871 Census. >> >> Peter Abbott was stationed at Edinburgh Castle in the 1860's before they >> got married, so she may be from Edinburgh or was living there at the >> time. >> >> On the 1881 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as EDINBURGH. >> >> On the 1891 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PRESTON. >> >> On the 1901 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PAISLEY. >> >> Years ago, I sent for a birth certificate for Isabella Rutherford, born >> 1846 Edinburgh, father William Rutherford. I was sent the certificate for >> Isabella Rutherford, father William Rutherford, fisherman and Christian >> Steele, in Newhaven, North Leith. I researched this family for ages and >> travelled to Edinburgh a few times. I eventually discounted this family, >> as this Isabella was still in Newhaven, Leith in 1901. I have also >> discounted Isabella daughter of William Rutherford and Jessie Balmer. >> >> I have looked on the 1851 and 1861 Scotland Census Indexes on Ancestry >> and also looked for births on Scotland's People, but nothing fits. >> >> I am beginning to think that Isabella made up the name of her father. >> >> One piece of information I had from my auntie was that her grandmother >> Isabella came from a big farm. >> >> If anyone can help me I will be eternally grateful, as I would love to >> find her family and trace them further back. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Anne in Bolton, Lancashire. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: > 26/12/2006 12:23 > >

Anne. I just want to say, I sympathise with you in your dilemma. I am however rather puzzled that Peter Abbott and your Isabella were married in Newport, Wales when he was eventually posted to Edinburgh Castle and then Ireland. As a rule, we know that a marriage would have taken place in the Parish of the bride. Something doesn't quite fit, to my mind. As to the identity of the father of Isabella, I can empathise here. My own mother, illegitimate at birth, named her grandfather as her father on the occasion of her marriage to my father. The information in the three census records also doesn't seem to fit, does it. I am related to a number of Isabella females who came from big farms in Scotland. It is so that the Scottish naming patterns, when applied, cause confusion. I would however be inclined to accept the information of your grandmother, even though we know that grandmothers are given to a slight loss of detail, and inclined to romanticise, as mine was. Nevertheless, as to the basics I have found what my grandmother told me to be true. You're suffering from the migration syndrome where once they removed to another part of the country, i.e. Britain, anything is possible. I have something similar. I would however recommend you try looking for death certificates. I have found them amazingly useful, calculating dates of death, except, with a mind that early death is possible. Calculate your grandmother's birth and have an open mind from there. I realise that what I have said may have muddied the waters somewhat, or perhaps not. Don't give up. Janet PS As I have been writing this two or three other responses have come in which I have not read. ----- Original Message ----- From: "pneanne" <[email protected]> > Please, please, please, can someone help me to find my great grandmother, > > I have been researching my family for over 20 years and have also helped numerous other people knock down their brick walls, so I am not a novice, but I am absolutely stuck on my great grandmother Isabella Rutherford born about 1846, Scotland. On the censuses her age is very consistent 1846/47. > > On her marriage to Peter Abbott of Preston, Lancashire she shows her father as William Rutherford, coachman. Peter and Isabella were married in Newport, Wales, as he was in the army. In 1871 he was stationed in Ireland, so I have not got her on the 1871 Census. > > Peter Abbott was stationed at Edinburgh Castle in the 1860's before they got married, so she may be from Edinburgh or was living there at the time. > > On the 1881 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as EDINBURGH. > > On the 1891 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PRESTON. > > On the 1901 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PAISLEY. > > Years ago, I sent for a birth certificate for Isabella Rutherford, born 1846 Edinburgh, father William Rutherford. I was sent the certificate for Isabella Rutherford, father William Rutherford, fisherman and Christian Steele, in Newhaven, North Leith. I researched this family for ages and travelled to Edinburgh a few times. I eventually discounted this family, as this Isabella was still in Newhaven, Leith in 1901. I have also discounted Isabella daughter of William Rutherford and Jessie Balmer. > > I have looked on the 1851 and 1861 Scotland Census Indexes on Ancestry and also looked for births on Scotland's People, but nothing fits. > > I am beginning to think that Isabella made up the name of her father. > > One piece of information I had from my auntie was that her grandmother Isabella came from a big farm. > > If anyone can help me I will be eternally grateful, as I would love to find her family and trace them further back. > > Kind regards, > > Anne in Bolton, Lancashire.

I have been throught this my 4 x gt grandmother, looking for her birth and her death, and came to the conclusions she must have been beamed down by aliens, and either have been beamed off again or was sitting in the corner of a residential home aged 204 and no-one realised that when she talked of the French Wars she was actually reminiscing. She was also an Isabella/ela/el/elle! On her marriage records (pre 1837) her name, not written by her she signed with a X, was either Greaves or Geaves depending on whether or not you took the ink blob on one occurence to be an R or an ink blob. She turned out to be Isabella JAVES. So, have you tried looking for bizarre spelling mistakes. Dutherford, Sutherford, Wutherford etc. However bizarre - I too am experienced but would never ever have looked for Javes because it is so obscure I had never known anyone by that name, and it took someone who had to think of it. Less likely - could she have been illegitimate and known by a different name to her father, or could her mother have remarried after being widowed and Isabella said that her father was William Rutherford when in fact in he was really her step father. Or, could she simply have been beamed down by aliens :-) As for my Isabel*** JAVES, she did die, but the aliens must have reclaimed her body as she wasnt buried anywhere - and I have tracked down all the family graves for that group of people! HTH Liz P >From: "pneanne" <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: <[email protected]> >Subject: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD >Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 15:42:49 -0000 > >Please, please, please, can someone help me to find my great grandmother, > >I have been researching my family for over 20 years and have also helped >numerous other people knock down their brick walls, so I am not a novice, >but I am absolutely stuck on my great grandmother Isabella Rutherford born >about 1846, Scotland. On the censuses her age is very consistent 1846/47. > >On her marriage to Peter Abbott of Preston, Lancashire she shows her father >as William Rutherford, coachman. Peter and Isabella were married in >Newport, Wales, as he was in the army. In 1871 he was stationed in Ireland, >so I have not got her on the 1871 Census. > >Peter Abbott was stationed at Edinburgh Castle in the 1860's before they >got married, so she may be from Edinburgh or was living there at the time. > >On the 1881 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as EDINBURGH. > >On the 1891 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PRESTON. > >On the 1901 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PAISLEY. > >Years ago, I sent for a birth certificate for Isabella Rutherford, born >1846 Edinburgh, father William Rutherford. I was sent the certificate for >Isabella Rutherford, father William Rutherford, fisherman and Christian >Steele, in Newhaven, North Leith. I researched this family for ages and >travelled to Edinburgh a few times. I eventually discounted this family, as >this Isabella was still in Newhaven, Leith in 1901. I have also >discounted Isabella daughter of William Rutherford and Jessie Balmer. > >I have looked on the 1851 and 1861 Scotland Census Indexes on Ancestry and >also looked for births on Scotland's People, but nothing fits. > >I am beginning to think that Isabella made up the name of her father. > >One piece of information I had from my auntie was that her grandmother >Isabella came from a big farm. > >If anyone can help me I will be eternally grateful, as I would love to find >her family and trace them further back. > >Kind regards, > >Anne in Bolton, Lancashire. > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Find Singles In Your Area This Christmas With Match.com! msnuk.match.com

Hiya You've probably tried looking for your gt grannys siblings on Scotlandspeople and on 1841 FREECEN. Is your auntie still alive? If she is try to get more info about her granny's siblings. Sometimes I've found that if I go sideways the thing I was looking for hits me in the face. I'll keep my open for you and get in touch if I come across anything happy new year when it comes <html><DIV><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive" color=#660099>June &nbsp;<IMG height=12 src="http://graphics.hotmail.com/emsmile.gif" width=12></FONT></DIV></html> > From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]> Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 15:42:49 +0000> Subject: [SCT-EDINBURGH] PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP - RUTHERFORD> > Please, please, please, can someone help me to find my great grandmother,> > I have been researching my family for over 20 years and have also helped numerous other people knock down their brick walls, so I am not a novice, but I am absolutely stuck on my great grandmother Isabella Rutherford born about 1846, Scotland. On the censuses her age is very consistent 1846/47.> > On her marriage to Peter Abbott of Preston, Lancashire she shows her father as William Rutherford, coachman. Peter and Isabella were married in Newport, Wales, as he was in the army. In 1871 he was stationed in Ireland, so I have not got her on the 1871 Census.> > Peter Abbott was stationed at Edinburgh Castle in the 1860's before they got married, so she may be from Edinburgh or was living there at the time.> > On the 1881 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as EDINBURGH.> > On the 1891 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PRESTON.> > On the 1901 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PAISLEY.> > Years ago, I sent for a birth certificate for Isabella Rutherford, born 1846 Edinburgh, father William Rutherford. I was sent the certificate for Isabella Rutherford, father William Rutherford, fisherman and Christian Steele, in Newhaven, North Leith. I researched this family for ages and travelled to Edinburgh a few times. I eventually discounted this family, as this Isabella was still in Newhaven, Leith in 1901. I have also discounted Isabella daughter of William Rutherford and Jessie Balmer.> > I have looked on the 1851 and 1861 Scotland Census Indexes on Ancestry and also looked for births on Scotland's People, but nothing fits.> > I am beginning to think that Isabella made up the name of her father.> > One piece of information I had from my auntie was that her grandmother Isabella came from a big farm.> > If anyone can help me I will be eternally grateful, as I would love to find her family and trace them further back.> > Kind regards,> > Anne in Bolton, Lancashire.> > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail. http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionId=5d21c51a-b161-4314-9b0e-4911fb2b2e6d

Please, please, please, can someone help me to find my great grandmother, I have been researching my family for over 20 years and have also helped numerous other people knock down their brick walls, so I am not a novice, but I am absolutely stuck on my great grandmother Isabella Rutherford born about 1846, Scotland. On the censuses her age is very consistent 1846/47. On her marriage to Peter Abbott of Preston, Lancashire she shows her father as William Rutherford, coachman. Peter and Isabella were married in Newport, Wales, as he was in the army. In 1871 he was stationed in Ireland, so I have not got her on the 1871 Census. Peter Abbott was stationed at Edinburgh Castle in the 1860's before they got married, so she may be from Edinburgh or was living there at the time. On the 1881 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as EDINBURGH. On the 1891 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PRESTON. On the 1901 Census in Preston, her birthplace is shown as PAISLEY. Years ago, I sent for a birth certificate for Isabella Rutherford, born 1846 Edinburgh, father William Rutherford. I was sent the certificate for Isabella Rutherford, father William Rutherford, fisherman and Christian Steele, in Newhaven, North Leith. I researched this family for ages and travelled to Edinburgh a few times. I eventually discounted this family, as this Isabella was still in Newhaven, Leith in 1901. I have also discounted Isabella daughter of William Rutherford and Jessie Balmer. I have looked on the 1851 and 1861 Scotland Census Indexes on Ancestry and also looked for births on Scotland's People, but nothing fits. I am beginning to think that Isabella made up the name of her father. One piece of information I had from my auntie was that her grandmother Isabella came from a big farm. If anyone can help me I will be eternally grateful, as I would love to find her family and trace them further back. Kind regards, Anne in Bolton, Lancashire.