--=======70D87EA0======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4C4B2462; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A couple of things you need to remember: many baptisms were not performed until the child was older so the year of baptism can not be taken automatically as the year of birth. For example, one of the Earls of Caithness had his 13 children baptised all at the same time, when the eldest was 21. So Maggie GUNN born in Orkney may have been some years older. Another point, marriage at the age of 16 was not at all uncommon. In fact in the Statistical Accounts of Scotland you'll find complaints about the increasing youth of people getting married - this was from the 1700's. There were several marriages where the bride was 13 or 14, and 16 was not at all uncommon. Other than that, Latheron and Bower are not particular far apart and our ancestors travelled far more readily and often than we currently do. Latheron and Bower are separated only by the parish of Watten, so how far apart they were is really dependent on where in Latheron and Bower they came from. Also, it's important to remember that Censuses are not always accurate and many people would put down where they were living as where they were born, and ages are so inaccurate it's amazing to us in these days where everything has to be so precisely timed. My great great grandparents ages were the same at their deaths as they were on the 1881 census, even though they died some 4 and 6 years later. There was five years age difference between them on one census, when in reality there was only one year difference. Censuses are only guides. Another thing that is important to remember is that many of the records are NOT available on the IGI - not all the records that have been filmed have been extracted for the IGI and many records have not been filmed. However, I'm afraid I don't see the link between Donald Sinclair and your ancestor, William HALCROW? As to why he moved - probably for work! You'll probably also find he had family in Renfrewshire. I have several Sinclair/Gunn marriages, as do, I think, many others on this list - Wanda - you have some of those too don't you? Anyway, hope this helps. Margaret Stokes Genealogist - Clan Sinclair Australia Head - Sinclair One Name Study. >The 1881 census CDs produced a fine printout of my Great Grandfather >William HALCROW, who was born Orphir, 1856. He married in 1879 and went >to Renfrewshire [have no clue why] and became a Police Officer after he >arrived there. The Mitchell Library has documents on his 8 or so years >as a Constable there, they are being sent soon. He had 3 daughters >while in the Glasgow area, and returned to Orkney by the time his next >child, my grandfather - also a William was born in Orphir, 1885. > >We had no clues as to why he would have gone to Glasgow, but some are >beginning to surface today. Got the actual film of the 1881 census for >Eastwood, Renfrewshire, and found him as expected. What was NOT >expected was to see a 'Sergant of Police' living a few doors down - a >Donald SINCLAIR, the census says he was born Latheron, Caithness. And >his WIFE, Maggie was born Orkney ! There is a daughter, Mary who is 4. > >The IGI has produced records saying a Donald SINCLAIR married a Maggie >GUNN in 1861, Thurso, Caithness. However this means she married at a >tender 16. Unusual if true. The one birth found by the IGI as a >possibiity is not indicative of this Donald SINCLAIR, it shows Bower as >the birthplace, not Latheron - are these near each other ? >Haven't belonged to this List for awhile, is there a way of finding out >about this mystery man ? Free Church birth ? > >Is anyone researching thse lines ? I am able to order the film >containing this Thurso marriage, but the ages simply don't fit the >census data. - Meg Greenwood / >Oklahoma, USA --=======70D87EA0======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4C4B2462 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 2/08/02 --=======70D87EA0=======--

I am looking for any information about this family, I have only just started to research them, and got John Sutherland and Catherine Gunn from the death certificate of daughter Jane. The IGI threw up the 22 Jan 1796 as a marriage for John and Catherine but as I know both names are common in the area, I am not yet sure if I have the correct family. Also IGI did not help with any siblings - I do realise the limitations of the IGI and would be grateful of any information relating to this family and if anybody else is also looking at them. I am connected to this family through Ann Rutherford. The Rutherford family came from the borders, so I am not sure how he got in tow with a lassie from Caithness. Hope somebody maybe able to help. Helen Oliver 1. JOHN SUTHERLAND, Farmer died Bef. 1879. He married CATHERINE GUNN 22 January 1796 in Latheron, Caithness - not confirmed. Child of JOHN SUTHERLAND and CATHERINE GUNN is: JANE SUTHERLAND, b. Abt. 1798, Berridale, Caithness; d. 8 February 1879, West Kilbride. Generation No. 2 2. JANE SUTHERLAND was born Abt. 1798 in Berridale, Caithness and died 8 February 1879 in West Kilbride . She married THOMAS RUTHERFORD 1 June 1820 in Berriedale, Caithness, son of JAMES RUTHERFORD and HELEN ELLIOT. Jane & Thomas - 1851 Census they are in Dykes, West Kilbride, Ayr Occupation: Shepherd. Farmer Children of JANE SUTHERLAND and THOMAS RUTHERFORD are: i. HELEN RUTHERFORD, b. Abt. 1822, Berridale, Caithness. 1851: Dykes, West Kilbride, Ayr ii. JAMES RUTHERFORD, b. Abt. 1826, Berridale, Caithness. 1851: Dykes, West Kilbride, Ayr Occupation: 1851, Former Clerk to Clothier iii. JOHN RUTHERFORD, b. 15 February 1829, Latheron, Caithness. iv. ANN RUTHERFORD, b. 1832, Wick, Caithness; d. 30 January 1893, 36 York Place, Edinburgh; m. JOHN HILL, 21 May 1851, Crosbie, West KIlbride Ayr. 1851: Dykes, West Kilbride, Ayr v. THOMAS RUTHERFORD, b. 5 October 1834, Dunnet, Caithness. 1851: Dykes, West Kilbride, Ayr vi. JANE/JOAN RUTHERFORD, b. 3 February 1839, Dunnet, Caithness. 1851: Dykes, West Kilbride, Ayr vii. GEORGE RUTHERFORD, b. 17 December 1840, Olrig, Caithness. 1851: Dykes, West Kilbride, Ayr --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 02/08/02

Greetings Fellow Listers I am researching my wife's GUNN family, and in particular looking for information on Robert GUNN born ca. 1776 possibly Halkirk or Latheron. Robert GUNN married Charlotte Rules SUTHERLAND, at Halkirk 10 Jan 1806 and had three known children:- William GUNN - chr 25 Dec 1806 at Halkirk (Nothing further known of this person) Henry GUNN - born abt. 1808 (Possibly Halkirk and nothing known further of this person) John GUNN - born 20 Aug 1811 & chr at Halkirk on 29 Aug 1811 (John GUNN married Margaret SUTHERLAND at Halkirk on 24 Jun 1836 and they had 9 children of which 8 came out to NZ with them in 1862. Their eldest son, Donald GUNN, born 16 May 1837 & chr. at Halkirk 23 Jun 1837 remained in Scotland and was possibly a farmer?- No other details known about him.) Information we have gathered so far on Robert GUNN In 1806 in Halkirk he was noted as the natural father of Catherine GUNN and mother was noted as Mary SUTHERLAND Her baptism was entry in 1806 was noted in the Halkirk OPR page 86/206 as follows: " Gunn - Catharine a child in fornication by Robert Gunn in Warehouse Parish of Latheron and Mary Sutherland in Halkirk was baptised 21st July - Jean Elder & Ann McKinley in Halkirk - Witnesses." OCCUPATION: Farmer from Achscorclet as noted from headstone transcription in the Dirlot cemetery. . MARRIAGE: As noted in the Halkirk OPR 37/1 marriages for 1806 on page 17 as follows: " Gunn- Robert Gunn in Warehouse of the Parish of Latheron & Charlotte Rules alias Sutherland married 10 Jan'y" DEATH: Before 1855 as noted on wife's death cert. of 1855 that husband was deceased. BURIED: Dirlot cemetery and the Table stone reads as follows: Robert GUNN farmer Achscorclet and wife Charlotte SUTHERLAND, erected by son William GUNN, and uncle John SUTHERLAND 22.11.1857 We have information in the family as noted by an earlier family historian that Robert GUNN was a soldier in the 79th Regt. of the Cameron Highlanders. Any information on Robert GUNN and his family would be most appreciated and I would like to make contact with anyone else researching this family. I would be grateful if someone could perhaps tell me where Achscorclet is located. Is this somewhere near Dirlot. Thanks & Regards to all. Bruce Cavanagh Gore - NZ "Not to know what happened before we were born is to remain perpetually a child. For what is the worth of a human life unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors..." ....Cicero

The 1881 census CDs produced a fine printout of my Great Grandfather William HALCROW, who was born Orphir, 1856. He married in 1879 and went to Renfrewshire [have no clue why] and became a Police Officer after he arrived there. The Mitchell Library has documents on his 8 or so years as a Constable there, they are being sent soon. He had 3 daughters while in the Glasgow area, and returned to Orkney by the time his next child, my grandfather - also a William was born in Orphir, 1885. We had no clues as to why he would have gone to Glasgow, but some are beginning to surface today. Got the actual film of the 1881 census for Eastwood, Renfrewshire, and found him as expected. What was NOT expected was to see a 'Sergant of Police' living a few doors down - a Donald SINCLAIR, the census says he was born Latheron, Caithness. And his WIFE, Maggie was born Orkney ! There is a daughter, Mary who is 4. The IGI has produced records saying a Donald SINCLAIR married a Maggie GUNN in 1861, Thurso, Caithness. However this means she married at a tender 16. Unusual if true. The one birth found by the IGI as a possibiity is not indicative of this Donald SINCLAIR, it shows Bower as the birthplace, not Latheron - are these near each other ? Haven't belonged to this List for awhile, is there a way of finding out about this mystery man ? Free Church birth ? Is anyone researching thse lines ? I am able to order the film containing this Thurso marriage, but the ages simply don't fit the census data. - Meg Greenwood / Oklahoma, USA

I have just received a new variation on the old "Nigerian Bank scam", customized to appeal to all of us genealogy nuts, and "personalized" to make me think it really was for me. I attach it for your warning and amusement (it also had a file attachment which I wouldn't touch with a 3-metre pole). By the way, I also received with the same mail download a very nice personal letter from a Mr. Edward Mugabe, the nephew of the nice President of Zimbabwe. I'm going to have to figure out how to spend my Millions (maybe at ScotsOrigins?). In a message dated 18/8/02 10:47:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bar_anthony22@yahoo.co.uk writes: << Subj:Next of kin Date: 18/8/02 10:47:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time From: bar_anthony22@yahoo.co.uk (anthonyÿokafor) Sender: bar_anthony22@yahoo.co.uk Reply-to: bar_anthony22@yahoo.co.uk (anthonyÿokafor) File: Nextofki (2526 bytes) Sender: bar_anthony22@yahoo.co.uk Received: from web13004.mail.yahoo.com (web13004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.14]) by siaag1ab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.14) with SMTP id NAA12906 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 18:41:32 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?anthony=20okafor?= <bar_anthony22@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Next of kin ATTN:Harrison, Ken A I am Barrister Anthony Okafor,solicitor at law, I am the personal attorney to Engineer Michael Harrison, a national of your Country, who used to work with Shell Development Company in Nigeria. Hereinafter shall be referred to as my client.On the 21st of April 1999, my client, his wife and their three children were involved in a car accident along Kano - Sokoto express Road while arriving from Easter Holiday to Warri Delta State. All occupant of the vehicle unfortunately lost their lives, since then I have made several enquiries to your Embassy to locate any of my clients extended relatives this has also proved unsuccessful. After these several unsuccessful attempts, I decided to contact you to locate any member of his family hence I contacted you. I am contacting you to assist in repatriating the money and properties left behind by my client before they get confiscated or declared unserviceable by his Bank where these huge deposit were lodged. Particularly, the City Trust Finance Company were the deceased had an Account valued to about $USD4.5Million Dollars has issued me a notice to provide the next of kin or have the Account confiscated within 10 working days. Since I have been unsuccessful in locating the relatives for over two years now, I seek your consent to present you as the next of kin of the deceased since you have the same last name so that the proceed of this Account valued at$USD4.5 Million Dollars can be paid to you and then you and me can share the money 60% to me and 40% to you. I have all necessary legal document that can be used to back up any claim we may make. All requires is your honest cooperation to enable us seeing this business successful. I guarantee that this will be executed under a legitimate arrangement that will protect you from any breach of the law. Expecting to hear from you soonest on my private bar_anthony10@yahoo.com Best regards. BARRISTER ANTHONY OKAFOR(SAN) Senior Advocate of Nigeria >> Unless specifically stated otherwise in this message, there is no intentional attachment on this e-mail transmission. Ken Harrison North Vancouver, Canada kenharrison11@cs.com

Can SKS give me ANY information about "John Mackay SUTHERLAND, Writer in Wick" in 1860. I believe that he was related to my own Sutherland family in Wick, but since the name is so common there I am looking for any information about John which might help me prove or disprove the connection. TIA Unless specifically stated otherwise in this message, there is no intentional attachment on this e-mail transmission. Ken Harrison North Vancouver, Canada kenharrison11@cs.com HARRISON Yorkshire, Staffordshire, London (Highgate/Hampstead) POTCHIT Yorkshire FISHER London (Highgate/Hampstead) GRIFFIN Staffordshire STANLEY Staffordshire SMELLIE Lanark, Orkney, Glasgow, Tasmania STIRRAT Ayrshire & Glasgow BAIN Caithness MILLER Caithness, Swaziland SPENCE Orkney TRAILL Orkney SELKRIG Lanark WICKETSHAW Lanark MORRISON Perthshire, Islay, Dumbarton, Glasgow, Australia (Vic) BAIRD Renfrew HAM Australia (Vic) THOMPSON Suffolk AGGUS Suffolk BRIGHTWELL Suffolk LAWSON Clackmannan McNABB Islay MURRAY Dumfries, Renfrew GILLESPIE Dumfries HENDERSON Dumfries TICKET (TAKET) Dumfries CALDWELL Tyrone, Renfrew GRAHAM Tyrone, Ontario Genealogists never die ... they just lose their census.

My thanks to the nearly 2 dozen Listers on various Lists who responded to my request below (both on and off List). I have responded directly to several and followed up on several suggestions. I hope that at least one suggested route will get me a connection with the old lead. If I haven't responded to you directly, please excuse the oversight and accept this public "Thank you!!" Subj: Arizona Date: 15/8/02 Listers, I'm trying to track down a very old lead to a researcher working on the same lines as me, over 20 years ago. Is there SKS who lives in or near Duncan, Arizona (or who knows the area) who could give me some advice on how to locate this person (for whom I have a rural delivery mail address only, from the 1970s)? TIA Unless specifically stated otherwise in this message, there is no intentional attachment on this e-mail transmission. Ken Harrison North Vancouver, Canada kenharrison11@cs.com

Ken, Duncan, Arizona, is in Greenlee County, Arizona, very close to the New Mexico border and quite close to the Graham County, Arizona, line. If it were me I'd put a query or two in each of those places on USGenWeb and/or Genforum. The New Mexico counties adjacent to them are Grant and Hidalgo Counties. You might also consider Cochise Co., Arizona, which is just south of Graham and Greenlee. Good luck. Beverly Moxley ----- Original Message ----- From: <KenHarrison11@cs.com> To: <SCT-CAITHNESS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 11:13 PM Subject: Arizona > Listers, I'm trying to track down a very old lead to a researcher working on > the same lines as me, over 20 years ago. > > Is there SKS who lives in or near Duncan, Arizona (or who knows the area) who > could give me some advice on how to locate this person (for whom I have a > rural delivery mail address only, from the 1970s)? > > TIA > > Unless specifically stated otherwise in this message, there is no intentional > attachment on this e-mail transmission. > > Ken Harrison > North Vancouver, Canada > kenharrison11@cs.com >

Listers, I'm trying to track down a very old lead to a researcher working on the same lines as me, over 20 years ago. Is there SKS who lives in or near Duncan, Arizona (or who knows the area) who could give me some advice on how to locate this person (for whom I have a rural delivery mail address only, from the 1970s)? TIA Unless specifically stated otherwise in this message, there is no intentional attachment on this e-mail transmission. Ken Harrison North Vancouver, Canada kenharrison11@cs.com

On death certificates I have in my possession, they say that the person was buried..... "as certified by........., Sexton", so from this I would assume that the Sexton is certifying that the person is in fact buried where they say. In your case I would assume that the wording means that the Sexton has not certified that James MacDonald has in fact been buried in Reay churchyard. Janet Hervey Bay, Queensland, Australia Email: jmartin@ehmail.com Researching: Gordon / Grier / Hannah / Grierson / Roxburgh / Whannel / McIlwraith / Hawkins / Campbell ----- Original Message ----- From: <DerekMcDonald1@aol.com> To: <SCT-CAITHNESS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 4:11 AM Subject: A question : Hi all : Can anyone help please : My GGGG Grandfather James MacDonald b1794 Reay died in Thurso 1857. His : death certificate states "buried in Reay churchyard not certified" What does : " not certified " mean ? : : Regards Derek :

Listers, So far, I have downloaded the Will for only one ancestor (the others are not yet available), but it has been very illuminating. There are two separate entries for several of my ancestors whose Wills are in the index. In response to a query I sent to "Scottish Documents" I received the following information (snipped), which may be useful to all of you: << [one listing] is for his will, and the other entry is the inventory of his estate (the descriptions are taken from the text of each document). Both are in the registers of Edinburgh Sheriff Court. Because this court recorded so many executries it kept separate registers for inventories and wills. When someone died intestate executors would be appointed by the court, an inventory would be drawn up and this would be the only document relating to the estate. When a will was left the apponted executors would still be charged with drawing up an inventory and both documents would be recorded in the registers. In Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow and some other courts separate registers were kept for wills and inventories, but in other courts all the documents were recorded in one register. Sometimes, information about an estate would come to light after the inventory had been registered and in such cases an additional inventory would be registered. This would account for some of the people you are interested in having more than one entry in our index. >> Hope this helps ..... Unless specifically stated otherwise in this message, there is no intentional attachment on this e-mail transmission. Ken Harrison North Vancouver, Canada kenharrison11@cs.com

Listers, This is related to genealogy only since it is about the major "tool" I use in my research. I would appreciate it if any Listers who use Compuserve 2000 would contact me OFF LIST. I would like to discuss with other users some of the features of different versions of CS2000. I won't bother the List with any details about my query, and this will affect nobody who using anything other than CS 2000. My apologies to the 99% of you who don't use CS2000. Unless specifically stated otherwise in this message, there is no intentional attachment on this e-mail transmission. Ken Harrison North Vancouver, Canada kenharrison11@cs.com

Hi all Can anyone help please My GGGG Grandfather James MacDonald b1794 Reay died in Thurso 1857. His death certificate states "buried in Reay churchyard not certified" What does " not certified " mean ? Regards Derek

Dear listers I have subscribed just to make this announcement and will be unsubscribing immediately as I have no known Scottish connections in my own research. I have just uploaded my Scotland IGI Middle Name index at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis. This adds Scotland to the English counties for which I have created such an index. I believe that middle names are an invaluable resource for finding clues to family relationships. Strangely I have seen very little written about their use as research pointers in any of the literature, nor have I seen this issue discussed much on the mailing lists. I have not seen any middle name indexes or search tools available anywhere either. BUT - often a person's middle name is the same as the maiden name of their mother or a grandmother or reflects some other familial connection (maybe the name of a patron or benefactor). It may also be the father's surname for births occurring out of wedlock. It seems obvious to me, therefore, that they have significant value in genealogical and family history research. I have found nearly 39,000 different middle names (some of which are obvious transcription errors for each other) appearing in over 780,000 of the christening/birth/adult baptism and marriage records on the IGI for this region. This is out of a total of over 6 million christening/birth/adult baptism and nearly 4 million marriage records (representing half that number of marriages, of course, since there are two records in the IGI for each marriage) for these churches/chapels. This is all of the entries in the IGI for Scotland that have been extracted as part of the controlled extraction program. I have not yet checked the parents' names on the baptism records for additional middle names - that is a much longer task which I may or may not be able to do. As always a warning about using the IGI is necessary. It is ONLY an index and is full of transcription errors. However it has been a mammoth undertaking on the part of the LDS and is an invaluable aid to research. Nevertheless, it bears repeating that there is no substitute for viewing the original records (or at least fiche or film of them). The IGI does assist you in locating those records and so narrowing down your area of search. Hugh Wallis Ontario, Canada Formerly of Surrey, UK OPC - Stoke Damerel, Devon - opc@stokedamerelopc.org - http://stokedamerelopc.org Stoke Damerel Baptism lookups - http://stokedamerelopc.org/baptism_lookup_request.htm Stoke Damerel Burial lookups - http://stokedamerelopc.org/burial_lookup_request.htm Plymouth Area post-1837 Church Marriages Middle Name lookups - http://stokedamerelopc.org/marriage_lookup_request.htm IGI Middle Name search (all of Devon) - http://stokedamerelopc.org/middle_names_from_the_igi.htm IGI Batch numbers, Middle Names etc - http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis

Hi all Listers Yes its the quiet season so here is a little reminder for all genealogists ......Never accept the first clue you come across always check it carefully or this could happen. Recently when I was stuck with my family, I decided to look at my wife's family and as her mother was born in the far east it was difficult to find connections. As her maiden name was Shell I was able to get a possible link to England. However I decided to try the LDS website worldwide and it threw up; Smoke Shell b c700 Copan Honduras he married Divine Ahau Queen Chac Ahau Xoc c 729 His parents were King and Queen Eighteen Rabbit-God K.............after I picked myself up from the floor after laughing my sides sore .......... remember this is my mother in law........... I couldnt resist carrying on for more ...... I found King Smoke Monkey.... King Smoke Shell etc etc etc. Try it yourselves its fascinating. Unfortunately my mother in law now believes that I have proved what she has always known........ she has royal connections. Regards Derek Edinburgh

Hi George Thanks for the reply, sorry I can't see any immediate connection. BAIN, HENDERSON, GUNN and to a lesser extent CAMPBELL are certainly common names in Caithness but are found elsewhere too, e.g. Bain is quite common here in Fife where I now live. My Henderson families were in Smerlie near Lybster and Achreamie in Reay, Sutherland also in the Lybster area and the Gunns were in Dunbeath and Achow near Lybster. My Bain family line came from Calder in Halkirk c.1750 - 1840 I've not found any connections with Wick at all, in fact strangely only got two Caithness connections outwith Halkirk and Latheron Parishes. Regards, Jim Bain www.osclay.co.uk

Hello everybody, been a while since I last posted so thought I try my luck again. I have 4 main Sutherland families from the Lybster area and I would like to make contact with others researching Sutherlands in this area or any of the other names from Smerlie and Swiney. Other names include MacKay in Egnal, Henderson in Clashmore and Smerlie and Gunn, Barnie and Cormacks. Full listings are on my website www.osclay.co.uk take a look and see. Jim Bain

Does anyone know anything about William BRIMS of the above address. He was the informant at Margaret LARNACH's death in Sinclair Tce, Pulteneytown Wick on the 1 December 1860 Kind Regards Marilyn Parker WHITIANGA NZ

Hi All, Does anyone have a Nell BRUCE or Gilbert MANSON on their family tree. These two people were the witnesses at the baptism of William Larnach on the 10th May 1767 at Halkion (I presume Halkirk) I presume that they would have been born at around the time of William's parents in abt the 1730's. I am wondering if they are related to the LARNACH family in anyway, Gilbert could be a relative of William's mother who was Merran MANSON. Can anyone help me with these people. Kind Regards, Marilyn Parker WHITIANGA NZ

Hi All, Does anyone have any information on Margaret SMITH, daughter of George SMITH and Jane SUTHERLAND. She had a younger brother John SMITH. Margaret SMITH was born in Thurso in 1774 and married William LARNACH who was born abt 1767 in Bower. Margaret died on the 2nd December 1860 in Watten. Her brother John was born in Thurso in 1776 If anyone is tracing the SMITH family I would love to hear from you. Kind Regards Marilyn Parker WHITIANGA NZ