In a message dated 6/2/03 7:02:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, SCT-CAITHNESS-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:08:32 -0500 > From: "The Nevilles" <trinev@rogers.com> > To: SCT-CAITHNESS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Maiden surnames > > Hello listers > > I have found a possible 3x great-grandmother living with her son in the > 1841 census. She uses her maiden surname. Was this usual or was she > possibly not married? She is also listed as a "spinster" - is this her > occupation or her marital status? > > Thanks for your help. > > Sharon > Ontario Sharon, The usual in Scotland was for married women to continue using their maiden surname, so this is no surprise. The other is speculation, but I would expect the "spinster" to relate to her occupation. The census should show marital status with a single letter: S or M or W FWIW ...... Unless specifically stated otherwise in this message, there is no intentional attachment on this e-mail transmission. Ken Harrison North Vancouver, Canada HARRISON Yorkshire, Staffordshire, London (Highgate/Hampstead) POTCHIT Yorkshire FISHER London (Highgate/Hampstead) GRIFFIN Staffordshire STANLEY Staffordshire SMELLIE Lanark, Orkney, Glasgow, Tasmania STIRRAT Ayrshire & Glasgow BAIN Caithness MILLER Caithness, Swaziland SPENCE Orkney TRAILL Orkney SELKRIG Lanark WICKETSHAW Lanark MORRISON Perthshire, Islay, Dumbarton, Glasgow, Australia (Vic) BAIRD Renfrew HAM Australia (Vic) THOMPSON Suffolk AGGUS Suffolk BRIGHTWELL Suffolk LAWSON Clackmannan McNABB Islay MURRAY Dumfries, Renfrew GILLESPIE Dumfries HENDERSON Dumfries TICKET (TAKET) Dumfries CALDWELL Tyrone, Renfrew GRAHAM Tyrone, Ontario Genealogists never die ... they just lose their census.

Hi, I was wondering if anyone else had any links to Swanson in Durness and Thurso? I have a Catharine Swanson whose parents were Susanna/Susan Swanson and John (Jock) Robertson...who married in Durness in 1809. I have a possible birth of Susan Swanson in Thurso in 1788 parents being Donald Swanson and Catherine Sutherland. I am not sure if these are the correct parents but are the only ones I can come up with on Scotlandspeople. Can anyone help? Thank you. Anna www.macleod-family-tree.co.uk

Hello Sharon, Pam and Listers. I also have a curious case somewhat on those lines. In the 1851 census, I have Janet HENDERSON, described as a mother-in-law and pauper, living with her son-in-law and wife, John and Elizabeth AULD(nee SUTHERLAND). When Janet HENDERSON died in 1855 (said to be aged 80) her parents were shown as William HENDERSON, farmer, and Margaret HENDERSON(nee BAIN). I have not been able to confirm this marriage. However,on Elizabeth AULD(nee SUTHERLAND)'s death certificate her parents are shown as John SUTHERLAND, ploughman, and Janet BAIN of Halkirk. Again, I have not been able to actually confirm this marriage either. Although I have several theories I can't quite understand that Janet BAIN and Janet HENDERSON are both Elizabeth's mother. Anyone any rational suggestions please or is this some devious Caithness plan to confuse an simple Southerner? Many thanks. Stuart, Edenbridge, Kent

Thanks to all of you who have responded to my question. I think I will go with spinster as an occupation as her son was a weaver, so it seems to fit. Also good to know that sometimes widows reverted to a maiden surname as I do have a parish record of her marriage. Sharon

I seem to recall reading somewhere that "in-law" in some places and times could have meant what we call "step", i.e., stepmother. Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Saunders" <sjsaunders@eurobell.co.uk> To: <SCT-CAITHNESS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:37 AM Subject: Maiden Surnames > Hello Sharon, Pam and Listers. > > I also have a curious case somewhat on those lines. > > In the 1851 census, I have Janet HENDERSON, described as a mother-in-law and pauper, living with her son-in-law and wife, John and Elizabeth AULD(nee SUTHERLAND). > > When Janet HENDERSON died in 1855 (said to be aged 80) her parents were shown as William HENDERSON, farmer, and Margaret HENDERSON(nee BAIN). I have not been able to confirm this marriage. > > However,on Elizabeth AULD(nee SUTHERLAND)'s death certificate her parents are shown as John SUTHERLAND, ploughman, and Janet BAIN of Halkirk. Again, I have not been able to actually confirm this marriage either. > > Although I have several theories I can't quite understand that Janet BAIN and Janet HENDERSON are both Elizabeth's mother. > > Anyone any rational suggestions please or is this some devious Caithness plan to confuse an simple Southerner? > > Many thanks. > > Stuart, > Edenbridge, Kent > > > > > >

Some info here regarding "spinster" you might find helpful. http://www.word-detective.com/020501.html tamiz ----- Original Message ----- From: Pam Russell To: SCT-CAITHNESS-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 6:38 AM Subject: Re: Maiden surnames Hi Sharon and listers, I was also interested in the questions you pose here. I have also found it curious that the wife is often listed in the census by her maiden name. One census that I was looking at, had the wife listed by her maiden name, but then it was lined through. I was wondering if they would just list the maiden name sometimes on the census, or if the wife would continue to use her maiden name after she was married. I had one mother who was living with her daughter, and her occupation was listed as "retired spinster". I think that must refer to the occupation of spinner. Any insight appreciated, Pam in Atlanta >From: "The Nevilles" <trinev@rogers.com> >To: SCT-CAITHNESS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Maiden surnames >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:08:32 -0500 > >Hello listers > >I have found a possible 3x great-grandmother living with her son in the >1841 census. She uses her maiden surname. Was this usual or was she >possibly not married? She is also listed as a "spinster" - is this her >occupation or her marital status? > >Thanks for your help. > >Sharon >Ontario _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Hi Folks, Many of the women were noted with their maiden names. It's commonplace for women in this part of Scotland to be referred to with their maiden names, you'll see it in the registers, in the census and on the gravestones. I suppose it conveys that they were people in their own right, not just the wives of their husbands. The census where the woman's surname was crossed out may have been due to the census being checked. Enumerators were supposed to follow strict rules, eg rounding down ages in the 1841 census. It may be that women were supposed to have been noted with their husbands surname, but the area enumerator 'corrected' the entry later. Quite often you will see surnames crossed out, along with any other information that the original enumerator kindly noted. If you think this is the case you'll probably notice a different pen/pencil has been used. I've noticed this quite a lot in Latheron parish, along with some women being noted as, say, Widow Henderson rather than noting her Christian name. Not very handy if there are no relatives living with her! As for the Spinster, if she was definately married, then that was probably an occupation. No relationships etc are noted in the 1841 census. Hope this helps Sara Donaldson

There are a couple of influences at work here. Maiden surnames First, it was not unusual (at that time) for a widow to use her maiden name. Even married women might be known by their maiden name. In Scotland it was not common to take a husband's surname until the second half of the 19th century, and even then the more remote areas (such as Caithness or the Isles) often retained the old custom. "Single" Mothers This was not a rare situation. But the fact that the son has his father's surname means that if this were the case, there may be Kirk session records which record the fact that the father acknowledged his responsibility. You should find the text of the son's christening record and this may be revealed. "Spinster" A spinster was a woman who's livelihood involved spinning of some sort, and was often the only way that a widow could support her family (as she could work in her home and still take care of the children). In Caithness at this time (1840's) the fishing industry was large and many single/widowed women were employed in a cottage industry to "spin hemp" which was used to make fishing nets. In the census records the term is usually an occupation. In the church records, a "spinster" came to represent an unmarried woman as this was a common situation. Sheila Hopewell, NJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Russell" <pamsrussell500@hotmail.com> To: <SCT-CAITHNESS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 6:38 AM Subject: Re: Maiden surnames > Hi Sharon and listers, > I was also interested in the questions you pose here. I have also found it > curious that the wife is often listed in the census by her maiden name. One > census that I was looking at, had the wife listed by her maiden name, but > then it was lined through. I was wondering if they would just list the > maiden name sometimes on the census, or if the wife would continue to use > her maiden name after she was married. I had one mother who was living with > her daughter, and her occupation was listed as "retired spinster". I think > that must refer to the occupation of spinner. > Any insight appreciated, > Pam in Atlanta > > > >From: "The Nevilles" <trinev@rogers.com> > >To: SCT-CAITHNESS-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Maiden surnames > >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:08:32 -0500 > > > >Hello listers > > > >I have found a possible 3x great-grandmother living with her son in the > >1841 census. She uses her maiden surname. Was this usual or was she > >possibly not married? She is also listed as a "spinster" - is this her > >occupation or her marital status? > > > >Thanks for your help. > > > >Sharon > >Ontario > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 >

Hi Sharon and listers, I was also interested in the questions you pose here. I have also found it curious that the wife is often listed in the census by her maiden name. One census that I was looking at, had the wife listed by her maiden name, but then it was lined through. I was wondering if they would just list the maiden name sometimes on the census, or if the wife would continue to use her maiden name after she was married. I had one mother who was living with her daughter, and her occupation was listed as "retired spinster". I think that must refer to the occupation of spinner. Any insight appreciated, Pam in Atlanta >From: "The Nevilles" <trinev@rogers.com> >To: SCT-CAITHNESS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Maiden surnames >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:08:32 -0500 > >Hello listers > >I have found a possible 3x great-grandmother living with her son in the >1841 census. She uses her maiden surname. Was this usual or was she >possibly not married? She is also listed as a "spinster" - is this her >occupation or her marital status? > >Thanks for your help. > >Sharon >Ontario _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

I too am interested in the BAIN family name. It is brick wall time! :-) I have Janet Bain married to Robert Donaldson in Watten in 1785 - and that is all I have about her or Robert except that Robert was a miller. It appears that their banns were called/proclaimed in Lunmore. Does anyone have a Janet BAIN in their families? I would expect her to have been born around the 1760s. and ... does anyone have any DONALDSONS??? ________________________ Susan Simmons searching for: Wright, Hughes & Kellett in India Wright, Donaldson, Bain, Green in Caithness

Hello listers I have found a possible 3x great-grandmother living with her son in the 1841 census. She uses her maiden surname. Was this usual or was she possibly not married? She is also listed as a "spinster" - is this her occupation or her marital status? Thanks for your help. Sharon Ontario

Dear Stuart, Not directly relevant to your query, but mentioning some of the surnames you are looking at. Concentrating on your gg grandfather John Oal (or Auld?) did he have a father or grandfather (or even uncle) John Oal born c 1817 who was the son of Thomas Oal born c 1771 who was the son of William Oal? Thomas Oal married Elizabeth Bain 1802. Further back an Agnes Sutherland married a William Dallas 1722. Yours hopefully, Jenny

I have a BAIN: one Christina BAIN m. Wick 20th November 1771 James SINCLAIR. I have no knowledge of her parents or siblings, however. Their daughter Christian SINCLAIR married in Wick 24.5.1811 James BREMNER, the famous shipbuilder & engineer of Wick. These are my wife's gx3 grandparents. David Pike Lowestoft ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Simmons" <greenleas@xtra.co.nz> To: <SCT-CAITHNESS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 4:12 AM Subject: Bain & Donaldson > > I too am interested in the BAIN family name. It is brick wall time! :-) > > I have Janet Bain married to Robert Donaldson in Watten in 1785 - and that > is all I have about her or Robert except that Robert was a miller. It > appears that their banns were called/proclaimed in Lunmore. > > Does anyone have a Janet BAIN in their families? I would expect her to have > been born around the 1760s. > > and ... does anyone have any DONALDSONS??? > > ________________________ > Susan Simmons > searching for: Wright, Hughes & Kellett in India > Wright, Donaldson, Bain, Green in Caithness > > > > >

Jenny, I am interested in your reference to the Bain and Dallas surnames. I didn't reply to Stuart's original Email as I could find no connection to the individuals he was looking for. However, I have extensive Bain connections in Caithness, but your Elizabeth Bain pre-dates most of my data. My earliest is Peter Bain, I believe born around 1794 in Watten, but this may be wrong. It's the only Peter Bain I can find in the right time frame. I also have extensive links to the Dallas/Dollas family in Caithness. This family appears to be quite small and I think I'm probably related to most of them. Any further information on the Bain and Dallas lines would be appreciated as I have pretty much exhausted the archives that are available. My Family Tree is located at http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/s/h/a/Christopher-Macneill. Regards, Chris Macneill -----Original Message----- From: Jenny Evans [mailto:jen39@tpg.com.au] Sent: 04 February 2003 23:29 To: SCT-CAITHNESS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: SCT-CAITHNESS-D Digest V03 #15 Dear Stuart, Not directly relevant to your query, but mentioning some of the surnames you are looking at. Concentrating on your gg grandfather John Oal (or Auld?) did he have a father or grandfather (or even uncle) John Oal born c 1817 who was the son of Thomas Oal born c 1771 who was the son of William Oal? Thomas Oal married Elizabeth Bain 1802. Further back an Agnes Sutherland married a William Dallas 1722. Yours hopefully, Jenny

Found these in the 1861 census for Barony, Glasgow : ED 33, page 6 - 57 St. George's Road David SWAN, hd, mar, 31, Music Seller born Edinburgh Mary Jane SWAN, wife, 27, born Edinburgh William D SWAN, son, 4 born Glasgow Margaret PLOUMAN, 'Relative', unm, 17 born Caithness ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ED 34, page 1 Un-numbered houses on on South Woodside John GUNN, hd, mar, 30, Gen'l Labourer born Dornbeath [?] Caithness Eliza F, GUNN, wife, mar, 33, Needlewoman born Shoreditch, England Janet M. A. GUNN, daur, 11, Scholar born Shoreditch, England Wm I. GUNN, son, 9, Born Bethnal Green, London David N. GUNN, son, 7 born Endfield, Midlothian ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is all there is of interest to the CAITHNESS list from the pages I phtotcopied ....Meg Greenwood / Oklahoma, USA

Dear Listers, Does anyone have any information on a John BARNETSON born in the Wick area about 1880/1? Thanks in advance. Stuart. Edenbridge, Kent

Hello Listers, In the 1851 Census there is a Janet HENDERSON (70), a widow described as mother-in-law, living at Milton with John OAL (my g.g.grandfather), head of household and wife Elizabeth OAL (Maiden name SUTHERLAND). It so happens that OAL should read AULD. Elizabeth OAL(Nee SUTHERLAND) parents shown on her death certificate are John SUTHERLAND and Janet BAIN. I have presumed (possibly incorrectly) that Janet SUTHERLAND(nee BAIN) remarried a HENDERSON and was widowed a second time sometime before 1851. However, Janet HENDERSON's death certificate in 1855 (the year for much information on certificates) shows her parents as William HENDERSON, farmer and Margaret HENDERSON (Nee BAIN) and no mention of any previous marriage or children. Now I am utterly confused. Does anyone have knowledge of William and Margaret HENDERSON for the Halkirk area? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Stuart, Edenbridge, Kent

Hi Folks Sorry for sending this to the wrong list. It must have been too early in the day. Regards Gavin Petrie Gavin W Petrie wrote: > Hi all > > I have a grt grandmother who was born in Halbeath. Could somebody please > advise as to what parish that would have been around 1850-1870. I think > it is probably Dunfermline, if so, what would be the Census, Enumeration > District? > > Thanks for your help. > Gavin Petrie -- Gavin W Petrie 64 Sunnyhills Ave. Glenview Hamilton 2001 New Zealand - - - - - - - - - If you are interested in 'Immigrant Shipping to New Zealand' between 1835 and 1910, pay my web site a visit at:- http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~shipstonz

Hello everyone: Does anyone have access to the Thurso Cemetery Index? I am an overseas member of the CFHS and do not know how to access this index. I would appreciate it very much if some kind soul could do a look up for me in the index. John McKAY died March 29, 1894 and his wife Rachel McKAY m/s MURRAY died February 18, 1919 and possibly [but not necessarily] their children William McKAY born June 24, 1870 //McKAY [female] born October 25, 1871 Robertina McKAY born October 05, 1872 Thanks for your consideration, Helen Turner

Hi all I have a grt grandmother who was born in Halbeath. Could somebody please advise as to what parish that would have been around 1850-1870. I think it is probably Dunfermline, if so, what would be the Census, Enumeration District? Thanks for your help. Gavin Petrie -- Gavin W Petrie 64 Sunnyhills Ave. Glenview Hamilton 2001 New Zealand - - - - - - - - - If you are interested in 'Immigrant Shipping to New Zealand' between 1835 and 1910, pay my web site a visit at:- http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~shipstonz