It's a bit out of season to ask this question, but a random conversation with my father a couple of days ago got me to thinking. We somehow got onto the topic of Christmas. And how it wasn't celebrated when he was a child. My father was born in Perthshire in the 1930's, in a little cottage on the Drummond castle estate, where his father was the estate carter. His father was born in the 1880's at Finnart, Kinloch Rannoch and his father was b. in Aruindle, Argyll in the 1860's. They where both Shepherds. My father was saying when he was a child the estate workers never really celebrated xmas and the workers never had holiday over the xmas period - there holiday/time off was over New Year instead. (some wild tales of Nerdy's past followed this chat!!) My fathers mother was English - from Northants/Oxon and so she did celebrate xmas - giving the children presents (an orange and a 2nd hand book usually! - how times have changed!!). She was quite a kind soft woman, whereas my grandfather was less sentimental and told my grandmother she was 'filling there heads with nonsense' regarding Santa Claus. He was a sternish, gaelic speaking man, born in 1885, perhaps his attitude is a reflection of him, rather than the time of the 1930's/40's - I can't say. But, getting to the point, It made me wonder what xmas was like in the Highlands? Was Argyll (or elsewhere) inclined to ignore xmas? My mother is from Glasgow and b. agn in the 1930's her experience of xmas is totally different - they where very poor as her father died in WW2 when she was 4 years old, but they always celebrated xmas. Her background is different I guess, as 3 of her grandparents where Irish, the remaining one being from the Isle of Bute. I was born in England so the concept of no xmas is a foreign one to me (also being younger). Though it's funny on thinking about it - as a child in a tiny Northamptonshire Village I recall now that they never celebrated New Year. Whereas we, as the village slept, would always sit up (my father with a good dram in front of the fire, and either him or me sent out the back with a lump of coal to walk round the house and first foot at the front door. We where both the darkest haired and my mother was adamant that it had to be someone dark that first footed). I would love to know how or if xmas was celebrated. My father told me that lack of festivities in the past possibly stems from the fact that Xmas wasn't celebrated after the reformation in many parts of Scotland, as it was seen as being too catholic. Anyway I will stop waffling! - Does anyone have any knowledge or thoughts on this? Thanks Morag

Morag, thanks so much for your post. I am several generations removed from Scotland, England and Ireland -- my great grandparents (he was Henry Lancaster Graham, Scotland; she was Rose Mills Loder, England) came here to the US in 1866, and they were the most recent immigrants of my ancestors. My mother, granddaughter of those ggrandparents, complained that her Scottish relatives were very "dour". I knew only one of her Scottish-descended uncles and he was delightful. So I would love to hear stories about what life and folk were like in the last century. I hope you keep this record written down, and share it with your family. Kathleen Van Heuit On Jan 19, 2007, at 10:23 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > It's a bit out of season to ask this question, but a random > conversation with > my father a couple of days ago got me to thinking. > We somehow got onto the topic of Christmas. And how it wasn't > celebrated when > he was a child. > > My father was born in Perthshire in the 1930's, in a little cottage > on the > Drummond castle estate, where his father was the estate carter. > His father was > born in the 1880's at Finnart, Kinloch Rannoch and his father was > b. in > Aruindle, Argyll in the 1860's. They where both Shepherds. > > My father was saying when he was a child the estate workers never > really > celebrated xmas and the workers never had holiday over the xmas > period - there > holiday/time off was over New Year instead. (some wild tales of > Nerdy's past > followed this chat!!) > > My fathers mother was English - from Northants/Oxon and so she did > celebrate > xmas - giving the children presents (an orange and a 2nd hand book > usually! - > how times have changed!!). She was quite a kind soft woman, > whereas my > grandfather was less sentimental and told my grandmother she was > 'filling there > heads with nonsense' regarding Santa Claus. He was a sternish, > gaelic speaking > man, born in 1885, perhaps his attitude is a reflection of him, > rather than the > time of the 1930's/40's - I can't say. > > But, getting to the point, It made me wonder what xmas was like in the > Highlands? Was Argyll (or elsewhere) inclined to ignore xmas? > My mother is from Glasgow and b. agn in the 1930's her experience > of xmas is > totally different - they where very poor as her father died in WW2 > when she > was 4 years old, but they always celebrated xmas. Her background > is different I > guess, as 3 of her grandparents where Irish, the remaining one > being from the > Isle of Bute. > > I was born in England so the concept of no xmas is a foreign one to > me (also > being younger). Though it's funny on thinking about it - as a > child in a tiny > Northamptonshire Village I recall now that they never celebrated > New Year. > Whereas we, as the village slept, would always sit up (my father > with a good > dram in front of the fire, and either him or me sent out the back > with a lump of > coal to walk round the house and first foot at the front door. We > where both > the darkest haired and my mother was adamant that it had to be > someone dark > that first footed). > > > I would love to know how or if xmas was celebrated. > My father told me that lack of festivities in the past possibly > stems from > the fact that Xmas wasn't celebrated after the reformation in many > parts of > Scotland, as it was seen as being too catholic. > > Anyway I will stop waffling! - Does anyone have any knowledge or > thoughts on > this? > > Thanks > Morag > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ARGYLL- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

My Argyll parents and grandparents (1840s onward) never celebrated Christmas. It just wasn't part of their culture. New Year's was the big day. When I visited Oban from the US as a small child, they rallied and gave me a tree and presents at Christmas. (Nothing like iPODs or computers or plasma TV sets, mind you!) But it was the exception, not the rule in 1929. My mother always insisted on phoning us up at midnight on New Year's as long as she lived. And she made sure our son -- handsome, tall, dark -- was the one to first-foot. It helped that he played the pipes, too, and could rouse the neighborhood. She'd have loved knowing she had a tall, dark, handsome great-grandson who was born on Hogmanay in Adelaide, SA. Sheila in Missouri

Just a rider to Sheila's comments > My Argyll parents and grandparents (1840s onward) never celebrated > Christmas. It just wasn't part of their culture. I recall that until the mid/late 1960's Christmas Day and Boxing Day were just normal working days. You only got one of them off if it happened to fall on a Sunday. > she made sure our son -- handsome, tall, dark -- was the one to > first-foot. Still happens in our 21st Century house. I recall my mother wouldn't go out of the house until we'd been first footed. Unfortunately she couldn't push me out before the Bells as I failed to meet the criteria - I was blond and I'm certainly not tall nor handsome. > a tall, dark, handsome great-grandson who was born on Hogmanay. Pity it's such a long way from Adelaide, SA. to Missouri USA. Our eldest daughter's in Dublin and that's far enough. Regards Les Onich, Inverness-shire Surrounded on 3 sides by Argyll [Awaiting your comment Jill in Benderloch, Argyll] ========================== Lochaber and North Argyll Family History Group - http://tinyurl.com/y6te7n ==========================

Hi Morag, All that you said about Christmas & New Year's exactly coincides with what I know of my Argyll family & the holiday celebrations. My father was born in the 1930s, in a little cottage near Tyndrum in Glenorchy. His father was Argyll born too, in the 1890s. Again both were shepherds! My mother was Argyll born too, but spent some of her childhood with relatives in Fife. I don't remember Christmas being as big a deal as New Year's either. I remember our 1st Christmas in Canada (I was nearly 4) - my Canadian relatives were apalled that my parents weren't going to bother with a tree etc. & all arrived with lots of decorations, to give the children a Christmas. I do though remember the tartan tins of lovely shortbread that arrived from Scotland for New Year's. Another thing that I didn't connect to the importance of New Year's among the Scots until recently - the exchange of calendars. My parents used to send & receive probably 2 dozen calendars at one time (until everybody died off, I suppose). Christmas is a big deal now, with us here in Canada - my parents have 9 grandchildren & we have lots of decorations, food & presents. New Year's Day might be just a day off, like Boxing Day, for the most of us if it weren't for my parents, I think. We always have another big meal & get-together because they like to "keep" New Year's - it's important to them. Just wanted to add to that it was few years in this country before we really jumped on the Thanksgiving band wagon, being a North American tradition & not one we were used to. Another good excuse for a big turkey dinner & get-together, so it has stuck rather well! lol Sorry, this is starting to look rather off topic, but not really as everything we can learn about our ancestors' experiences - immigrant or otherwise - helps to flesh out the big story, I think. Mary Fletcher Harris Ontario, Canada formerly of Tayvallich, Argyll