Elizabeth Thanks for your help. We have the 1881 census but not the other one you mentioned. If you could forward it we would be grateful. Atholl

Thank you, Frank, for adding to my limited understanding of what was going on in the 1680s The decade starting in 1680 is, I find, difficult to comprehend. At its start, Charles II was king. He was Episcopalian, i.e he believed that allegiance to God should be from the individual, through the bishops and the king to God. Moreover, he insisted that others believe that too. Then James VII became king. He was Roman Catholic, and believed allegiance to God should be through the priests and the Pope to God. It appears to me from what you say that he did not insist that everyone lived according to his beliefs. After the Revolution of 1688, William of Orange was King. He was a protestant, and presumably believed that allegiance to God was direct from the individual, but highly constrained by the ministers and the aristocracy and the king. What still amazes me is the extent to which so much of the action was played out in Kintyre. Those were exciting times in Argyll! Iain McKenzie

Alma Brown wrote >Has anyone any knowledge of Vale of Leven foot ball teams ? Has she tried her query with the Dunbartonshire list. Dunbartonshire-Genweb-l@Rootsweb.com The Vale of Leven is that which runs from where the R Leven leaves Loch Lomond to where it enters the R Clyde at Dumbarton. Hence the name of the football club at Alexandria in theVale. Best Wishes Les

Deleted a message in error re above. Would the person please resend. Ian Ian Grant, ihgrant@sympatico.ca on 01/24/2003

test -- Ian Grant, ihgrant@sympatico.ca on 01/24/2003

Iain McKenzie Thank you for your kind words about my CD-ROM disk "The Argyll Courts". Perhaps as the person who produced the disk, I might be presumed to know a little about the background of the records contained in it. You ask about the Campbeltown lists of non-attenders at Church. This was part of the aftermath of the rebellion in Scotland in May 1685 of the Earl of Argyll against James II and its suppression, which brought the Earl of Argyll to the scaffold. This rebellion was contemporary with but much less well known than the corresponding Monmouth Rebellion in England. These Rebellions were both Protestant rebellions against a Catholic King. In Kintyre and Campbeltown there were many who were supporters of the Earl of Argyll and one of the forms in which this support was expressed was refusal to attend the Established Church of the time which was episcopal. The immediate reaction to the failure of the rebellion was hunt down those who were or might have been involved in it. Failure to attend church at this time was therefore seen as treasonable conduct and the Justices of the Peace were given a special commission to deal with this aspect of the rebellion. To me one of the fascinations of the lists is the number of times it was the women of the families who refused to attend church. The rebellion is remarkably well documented, particularly in the Lieutenancy papers of Argyll of the time. Some were published in 1935 in a book called "The Commons of Argyll" - now long out of print. It is hoped that much of this documentation will be made available as the work proceeds of cataloguing and calendaring the papers of the various courts in Argyll which have been for a very long time concealed among the papers of the Sheriff Court. The pursuit of those who did not attend church did not go on for long because in June 1687 James II issued a proclamation that his subjects were allowed "to meet and serve God after their own way." Frank Bigwood

On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 19:56:20 -0000, Les HORN wrote: >Alma Brown wrote > >>Has anyone any knowledge of Vale of Leven foot ball teams ? > >Has she tried her query with the Dunbartonshire list. > >Dunbartonshire-Genweb-l@Rootsweb.com > >The Vale of Leven is that which runs from where the R Leven leaves >Loch >Lomond to where it enters the R Clyde at Dumbarton. Hence the name >of the >football club at Alexandria in theVale. Les I have given Alma information about V of L and JC McGregor including a photo of the man himself in a V of L strip. He was capped 4 times for Scotland from 1877 to 1880. Ian

I am looking for any information regarding a family who lived at Druimnasallie, Kilmallie ~1855 - 1892 Donald Cameron Married a Christina Campbell from Loch Carron .There were 11 children. We believe that Donald was born in Morven at a place called Camas Salach. Many Thanks Atholl.

I am looking for any information regarding a family who lived at Druimnasallie , Kilmallie ~1855- 1892 Donald Cameron married a Christina Campbell from Loch Carron. There were 11 children. We believe that Donald was born in Morven at a place called Camas Sallach. Many thanks , Atholl.

Just a note to thank both Athol and Jim for their help with locating the area where my ancestors lived. Regards C J Stevens

Alma, you might try a local newspaper - the following site gives Scottish papers. http://www.wrx.zen.co.uk/scotland.htm or Dumbarton F.C. > http://www.dumbartonfootballclub.com/ < Jack ============== Hello Has anyone any knowledge of Vale of Leven foot ball teams ? Im intested in finding out about a John C Mc Gregor who played in a cup winning team in the 1800,s Under stand he was a well like man and played in several big matches . A younger brother Alexander played for Dumbarton and also won a medal in a cup match, so the family seemed to be well known in the sports fields in and around Bonhill Where do I start my search any help please Alma

Hi Penny Thanks for letting us know about these maps. They are wonderful to check out. I can now zoom in on where my ancestors came from. Scottish Maps http://www.nls.uk/digitallibrary/map/index.html. Regards Heather.

Hi Everyone I know someone on the list is knowledgeable about Scottish place names. Would you help me please. There is a mountain (or hill) near Moy near Loch Moy and Loch Laggan called "Beinn a'Chaoruinn". What does this mean in English, please? Thanks Heather NSW, Australia

This was from Frank Bigwood for Liz and those who may have missed it. However, could I suggest to everyone looking for ancestors in Argyll that it is really necessary to consult one of the old maps? There are two from early in the 18th century one by Langlands and the other by Thomson. They are not as accurate as modern maps but they contain many places which have disappeared since they were made. The two maps contain much the same information but unfortunately do not have every inhabited named place. However they are very helpful in establishing where to look for places which are now difficult to find. They are easily accessible from the National Library of Scotland http://www.nls.uk/digitallibrary/map/index.html. Choose from the options: Maps of Scotland, then Geographic Area, then Counties, then Argyllshire, then 1801 George Langlands or 1824 John Thomson. The maps when they appear are very small but by clicking on them they can be enlarged on the screen. It is also possible to buy copies of the maps from the National Library. Frank Bigwood

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:27:59 EST, AlmaBrwn@aol.com wrote: >Hello >Has anyone any knowledge of Vale of Leven foot ball teams >? >Im intested in finding out about a John C Mc Gregor who played in >a cup >winning team in the 1800,s >Under stand he was a well like man and played in several big >matches >. >A younger brother Alexander played for Dumbarton and also won a >medal >in a cup match, so the family seemed to be well known in >the >sports fields in and around Bonhill >Where do I start my search any help please Alma Alma I have sent you a private e-mail with information about McGregor etc. Ian -- Ian Grant, ihgrant@sympatico.ca on 01/23/2003

Thank you Frank for the wonderful map site, it is fantastic and not one I had found before. You can zoom in so far I thought I saw an ancestor waving from behind a tree - but it was wishful thinking. However, there is lots more to explore on that link. Penny New Zealand

Hello Has anyone any knowledge of Vale of Leven foot ball teams ? Im intested in finding out about a John C Mc Gregor who played in a cup winning team in the 1800,s Under stand he was a well like man and played in several big matches . A younger brother Alexander played for Dumbarton and also won a medal in a cup match, so the family seemed to be well known in the sports fields in and around Bonhill Where do I start my search any help please Alma

Thank you Frank for your help, and for including the excellant web site for maps. I have two maps of Argyll, but alas, Salachan does not appear on either. Fiunary does, so I can now pin point where one of my ancestors came from. My mistake in presuming that Calve meant just that, and not Calve Island. C J. Stevens

Heather, Beinn a' Chaoruinn/ainn means hill of the rowan. Sìne

Ian I have replied to you off list. Martyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iain McKenzie" <iain-mckenzie@sol.co.uk> To: "Martyn Taylor" <martyntaylor@msn.com>; <SCT-ARGYLL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [ARGYLL] Argyll Courts > Martyn > > I had been under the impression that Presbyterians had been fairly safe in > Kintyre at this time because of protection given by the 9th Earl of Argyll. > However, he had to leave the country in 1681 because he had opposed the > Scottish Test Act of that year ( I have just looked that up), so presumably > there was a bit of a power struggle between the various religious groupings > when he left. > > I would like to know more. > > Iain McKenzie