Donna Lou's question and George's response have solved a problem that has puzzled me for years. Thank you both. When my great-great-grandfather, John MacDonald, was baptised in 1809 in the Isle of Tiree, his mother's name was recorded in the parish register as Marion Campbell. When he died in Australia in 1888 his mother's name was recorded as Sarah Campbell. After searching in vain for Sarah Campbell in the Tiree records and finding only Marion I had assumed that there was an error in the Australian record. Keith Dash Sydney, Australia

Can Any one advise what Pegg is short for I have a Margaret/Maria/Pegg/Peggy COLQUHOUN in Kilmalie and im hoping they are all the same mother CHRIS GLASS RUISLIP UK check out my family trees http://www.geocities.com/jccglass Yorkshire Trees >From Hull , Bridlington; Richardson , Jagger , Brown , Caton(&lincs) Barron , Swift >From Nafferton, Lowthorpe, Thorneholme, Driffield; Crompton , Elgey , Jefferson , Hyde , Richardson >From Wakefield, Wrenthrope,Sandal Magna; Roberts, Hampshire, Sugden, Blackburn, Pearson, Chatterton, Firth, Ramsden , Helme , Colley , Saville , Sutcliff, Eastwood SCOTLAND >From Kinross, Grandtuly , Ballachulish , Stathmiglo; Glass, White , Moncur , Miller. Campbell, Robertson , McFarlane , MacIntyre, Cameron,Colquhoun NewZealand >From Auckland, Devonport, Lawrence Otago, New Plymouth; Glass, Clarke , Lowe , Mann, Gunson, Waddel Campbell , Cameron, McBeath, Guillard, Moncur, NON GEN jazz! http://www.geocities.com/jazzupstairs

Peg=Margaret usually edward Limpsfield, Surrey Using Norton Anti-Virus 2003

Thanks George I agree. What I never said was that the parish clerk or Minister seems to have been quite confused about this lady's name. I have records of her as Helen Morison, Euphemia Morison, and Euphemia Adamson, yet it appears to be the same family. It has been suggested that this could be because women in Scotland have frequently been known by their, and sometimes even their mother's, maiden names. My mother is 70 and she and her sisters are still known by their maiden names as 'the Anderson girls'! So it continues still. edward Limpsfield, Surrey Using Norton Anti-Virus 2003

Elizabeth and Sarah were not interchangeable. Either there were two different wives, or the clergyman made an error (this happened fairly often). George Sanborn Joy wrote: > While on this subject, what is the prospect that Elizabeth and Sarah > were interchanged? > > I find birthis/christenings in the same parish with what may be the same > family, but the mother's name is Elizabeth for one child, Sarah for the > other. The other possibility is wife one died & he was remarried to a > sister or other family member with the same last name. > > Thanks, > Joy > > ==== SCT-ARGYLL Mailing List ==== > ***************************************************************** > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/Scotland/Argyll is the > GenConnect board for Argyll

While on this subject, what is the prospect that Elizabeth and Sarah were interchanged? I find birthis/christenings in the same parish with what may be the same family, but the mother's name is Elizabeth for one child, Sarah for the other. The other possibility is wife one died & he was remarried to a sister or other family member with the same last name. Thanks, Joy

Edward, I have never seen Euphemia and Helen interchanged. Euphemia/Effie/Phemie are, of course, all the same, and in the Outer Isles, at least, Euphemia is often given as Henrica or Winnifred in the older records. I have even seen it on a couple of occasions as Effrick, an attempt to render the Gaelic name into English. All of these names mentioned above are Oighrig in Gaelic [roughly pronounced as AY-rick]. George Sanborn Epaxton@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone come across Euphemia and Helen being used as the same name? > > I have a gggggrandmother who on some children's bap records is named > as Helen, but on others and also on censuses she's Euphemia. > > edward > Limpsfield, Surrey > Using Norton Anti-Virus 2003

Thanks to all of you who replied. Doesn't make much sense to me, but translating from Gaelic to English probably doesn't. I'm assuming the same is true for the names Daniel & Donald. I have many that seem to slide from one to the other throughout their lives. D. Lou Ritter ----- Original Message ----- From: "George F. Sanborn Jr." <seorasog@attbi.com> To: "Donna Lou Ritter" <drlulu@chartermi.net> Cc: <SCT-ARGYLL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 7:36 PM Subject: Re: [ARGYLL] Mother-daughter names > Marion and Sarah are the same name in older Highland records. The Gaelic name Mor was anglicised first as Marion, then almost without exception it was decided > that Sarah was the English equivalent. The same person will be found in records by both names. > > George Sanborn > >

Has anyone come across Euphemia and Helen being used as the same name? I have a gggggrandmother who on some children's bap records is named as Helen, but on others and also on censuses she's Euphemia. edward Limpsfield, Surrey Using Norton Anti-Virus 2003

Marion and Sarah are the same name in older Highland records. The Gaelic name Mor was anglicised first as Marion, then almost without exception it was decided that Sarah was the English equivalent. The same person will be found in records by both names. George Sanborn Donna Lou Ritter wrote: > I have several times come across places where mother and daughter names seem > to be interchanged. I am wondering if it was common to give daughter > mother's middle name and switch to using it later in life--or if people just > confuse the mother's and daughter's names. Does anyone know anything about > this? > > For example: I have a 4g-grandparents Malcolm McPherson and Marrion/Sarah > McCallum. In the Old Parochial Records they appear twice. In Craignish > parish (his); "Mar 16, 1782 Malcom McPherson and Marrion McCallum > (Kilmartin)". In Kilmartin parish; "1782 March 16th Malcom Mcpherson in the > parish of Craignish and Sarah MacCallum in this parish". In her home parish > she is called Sarah, in his parish she is called Marrion. > With records of later baptisms of children her name varies between the two. > Their daughter Sarah McPherson is my 3g-grandmother. She marries Duncan > McIntyre and the baptisms of their children again record her as Sarah > sometimes and Marrion sometimes. > > Thanks for any explanation or discussion to help my confusion. > > D. Lou Ritter (by coincidence I sometimes use my first name & sometimes my > middle name, so contribute to confusion.) > > ==== SCT-ARGYLL Mailing List ==== > **************************************************************** > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Park/8997/index.html an index to "THE INHABITANTS OF ARGYLL ESTATE" by Eric Greegan : Duke of Argyll's 1779 estate census

I have several times come across places where mother and daughter names seem to be interchanged. I am wondering if it was common to give daughter mother's middle name and switch to using it later in life--or if people just confuse the mother's and daughter's names. Does anyone know anything about this? For example: I have a 4g-grandparents Malcolm McPherson and Marrion/Sarah McCallum. In the Old Parochial Records they appear twice. In Craignish parish (his); "Mar 16, 1782 Malcom McPherson and Marrion McCallum (Kilmartin)". In Kilmartin parish; "1782 March 16th Malcom Mcpherson in the parish of Craignish and Sarah MacCallum in this parish". In her home parish she is called Sarah, in his parish she is called Marrion. With records of later baptisms of children her name varies between the two. Their daughter Sarah McPherson is my 3g-grandmother. She marries Duncan McIntyre and the baptisms of their children again record her as Sarah sometimes and Marrion sometimes. Thanks for any explanation or discussion to help my confusion. D. Lou Ritter (by coincidence I sometimes use my first name & sometimes my middle name, so contribute to confusion.)

Sheila : Was Lauchlan's wife Margaret Andrew ? Col

Still following the trail of my Lachlan McLean. His daughter, Janet McLean was born in 1854 in "Ellamlly, Dunbarton" according to the 1881 census. Needless to say I can't find "Ellamlly" which doesn't look as though it's pronounceable, but I can't make it fit anything in my Atlas either. I'm hoping that the Argyll list can help here as I was unable to make contact with a Dumbartonshire Genweb list which is obviously for the rocket scientist elite among us. It kept asking me 'tennis questions' like name my sending server and my receiving server....! don't they realise that some of us just sit down, flip a switch and type....! please help this technology resistant old dear! Sheila

Having worked in the ' 60s at 20 Trongate passed by may a time and oft ! > > The passageway from Gallowgate to London Road /Street was erected under the the > City Improvements and given the name of Schipka Pass after a stronghold > held by a Turkish general against the Russians . There was an arcade off this . > > Col

Thanks to everyone who wrote in reply to my query on the origin of Shipka pass, who's origin is from the Crimean war, like Crimea st in Anderston. I enjoyed reading all the replies and the details were most interesting. Now I live in Stirlingshire I feel like returning to Dear Old Glesca! Jimmy _________________________________________________________________ Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess

Hi Jimmy, Thought you might enjoy this:- Raymond Burke (In memory of Ian Dury) A prayer as the No. 20 careers down the Cathkin Braes towards Glasgow. Our Father, who art in Bridgeton, Gallowgate be thy name. Thy Kingston Bridge come, thy Dennistoun, on earth as it is in Govan. Give us this day our Darnley bread. Forgive us our Shipka Passes, as we forgive those who Port Dundas against us. And lead us not into Templeton's, but deliver us from Eastwood. for thine is the King's Park and the Pollock and the Gorbals for ever and ever. Hampden Sheena.

Thought you might be interested in the following web page, which has a description of a walk round Bridgeton, and includes a brief mention of Shipka Pass: http://www.glasgowwestend.co.uk/out/outdoors/brigtoncross.html Ian R Mitchell - Walking in Glasgow's East End - Around Brigton Cross - Glasgow's Changing East End and then there's Stenlake Publishing (see http://www.stenlake.co.uk), which specialises in illustrated history books, and which has one titled "Old Bridgeton and Calton" - the blurb mentions Shipka Pass. Being a Scottish based company, they have books covering many locations in Scotland, so those researching other areas may find something of interest on this site too - most of the books appear to be priced around £7 to £12, and can be purchased online. I have no links with this company, and haven't bought anything from them, but having stumbled across their website, I'm feeling sorely tempted by a few of the books there! :-) Regards, Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimmy McPherson" <templar_bb2461314@hotmail.com> To: <SCT-ARGYLL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [ARGYLL] Glasgow street names? SKIPKA PASS? > Hi Mary, one street name I would dearly love to know the import off is > Skipka Pass, off Gallowgate near McPherson street, unfortunately Skipka Pass > is not mentioned in this book of 1902 although it is an old street name! > Has anyone any ideas? > > > >From: "Mary Hamilton" <MAH.Rodney@xtra.co.nz> > >To: SCT-ARGYLL-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: [ARGYLL] Glasgow street names > >Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:48:52 +1000 > > > >Hi listers, > > > >I have just come across this great site which some of you might find > >helpful > > > >http://www.glasgowguide.co.uk/info-gstreets3.html > > > >It lists most of the old street names and cites the origin of the name. > >For example, Goosedubbs (which was recently "on the list" got its name > >from the fact that the Provost's geese grazed there, not (as I thought) > >from being the place where poultry was killed and plucked. > > > >Mary > >Coordinator for East Lothian 1841 FreeCensus Project > >Links to online transcriptions on Web page - > >www.rootsweb.com/~sctelnfc/east.htm/east.htm > > > > > > > >==== SCT-ARGYLL Mailing List ==== > >**************************************************************** > >Please remember to send ALL list mail to SCT-ARGYLL-L@rootsweb.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > > ==== SCT-ARGYLL Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************** > Need an LDS film number to order a film at your local LDS library? Try > http://geocities.com/Heartland/Garden/1311/13300-scottishreference.htm > >

Hi Jimmy Are you sure that you don't mean Shipka Pass? This is in present day Bulgaria, and was a major battle of the Russian-Turkish War of 1877/78. Britain had a great interest in this War, and in fact nearly became involved on the Turkish side, over fears of Russian control of the Ottoman Empire. Regards Lloyd Mitchell Interested in PATERSON and BANNATYNE in Kintyre pre 1850s ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimmy McPherson" <templar_bb2461314@hotmail.com> To: <SCT-ARGYLL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [ARGYLL] Glasgow street names? SKIPKA PASS? > Hi Mary, one street name I would dearly love to know the import off is > Skipka Pass, off Gallowgate near McPherson street, unfortunately Skipka Pass > is not mentioned in this book of 1902 although it is an old street name! > Has anyone any ideas? > > > >From: "Mary Hamilton" <MAH.Rodney@xtra.co.nz> > >To: SCT-ARGYLL-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: [ARGYLL] Glasgow street names > >Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:48:52 +1000 > > > >Hi listers, > > > >I have just come across this great site which some of you might find > >helpful > > > >http://www.glasgowguide.co.uk/info-gstreets3.html > > > >It lists most of the old street names and cites the origin of the name. > >For example, Goosedubbs (which was recently "on the list" got its name > >from the fact that the Provost's geese grazed there, not (as I thought) > >from being the place where poultry was killed and plucked. > > > >Mary > >Coordinator for East Lothian 1841 FreeCensus Project > >Links to online transcriptions on Web page - > >www.rootsweb.com/~sctelnfc/east.htm/east.htm > > > > > > > >==== SCT-ARGYLL Mailing List ==== > >**************************************************************** > >Please remember to send ALL list mail to SCT-ARGYLL-L@rootsweb.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > > ==== SCT-ARGYLL Mailing List ==== > ********************************************************************** > Need an LDS film number to order a film at your local LDS library? Try > http://geocities.com/Heartland/Garden/1311/13300-scottishreference.htm > > >

Hi Mary, one street name I would dearly love to know the import off is Skipka Pass, off Gallowgate near McPherson street, unfortunately Skipka Pass is not mentioned in this book of 1902 although it is an old street name! Has anyone any ideas? >From: "Mary Hamilton" <MAH.Rodney@xtra.co.nz> >To: SCT-ARGYLL-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [ARGYLL] Glasgow street names >Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:48:52 +1000 > >Hi listers, > >I have just come across this great site which some of you might find >helpful > >http://www.glasgowguide.co.uk/info-gstreets3.html > >It lists most of the old street names and cites the origin of the name. >For example, Goosedubbs (which was recently "on the list" got its name >from the fact that the Provost's geese grazed there, not (as I thought) >from being the place where poultry was killed and plucked. > >Mary >Coordinator for East Lothian 1841 FreeCensus Project >Links to online transcriptions on Web page - >www.rootsweb.com/~sctelnfc/east.htm/east.htm > > > >==== SCT-ARGYLL Mailing List ==== >**************************************************************** >Please remember to send ALL list mail to SCT-ARGYLL-L@rootsweb.com > _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

> Hi Mary, one street name I would dearly love to know the import off is > Skipka Pass, off Gallowgate near McPherson street, unfortunately Skipka > Pass is not mentioned in this book of 1902 although it is an old street > name! Has anyone any ideas? Jimmy Believe it was a battle in Bulgaria or thereabouts around 1900. Ian ihgrant@sympatico.ca