I am definitely no expert in this subject (I wish my dad was computer literate as he so knowledgeable in all aspects of Scottish history) but..... as far as I gather, the free church of Scotland emerged from the "disruption" in 1843. and as far as I know the Free church of Scotland was reunited with the established church of Scotland the - United Presbyterian Church of Scotland to form the United Free Church of Scotland in 1929. My father has told me in the past that the "Free's" (in their pure form) are still in existence (in a theological sense) on the Isle of Skye (or were), they would demand that nothing was done on sunday's including travelling to the island (of which is now beyond there control with the new(ish) bridge). I once saw a wonderful Illustration of scottish religion, over the years. I will try and find it and post it here, I have a feeling it's on a website connected to ayrshire. Regards Morag

> In addition to first-footing, my Mother used to open front and back doors of the house at midnight to let the new year in and the old year out. > Marjorie McCuaig Ramage

I've just had a look at the archives and realised I'm only receiving about half the replies to this topic and in the wrong order it seems. I found an interesting web page regarding Scottish New Year at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A10358165 It is lists more but the part I was interested says: Hogmany - word for the celebration to welcome the New Year. Traditionally it runs from noon on 31 December to noon on 1 January, but it is now generally taken to mean the whole new year festive period; the festivities often continue well into the new year and even into 2 January as well. It is a time of hope and looking forward to a better year. History and Origins. The celebration of Hogmanay can be traced back to the pagan practices of sun and fire worship in mid-winter. The Roman festival of Saturnalia involved great festivities with lots of wine and food, as well as more lascivious goings-on. The Vikings celebrated Yule, beginning on the shortest day of the year with sacrifices to the Norse gods and continuing for a number of days. The customs of Hogmanay probably combine elements of both of these with elements ofdruidic winter solstice practices. Following the Scottish Reformation in the 1560s, celebrating Christmas was frowned upon by the rather dour version of Calvinism introduced by John Knox and his successors, who believed it was too superstitious and too Roman Catholic. This was taken so seriously, and preached so vociferously in parish churches, that the celebration of Christmas was effectively banned, except in its pure religious sense. However, while the reformers could ban Christmas, they were unable to do the same for New Year. The celebrations were forced to go underground during the Interregnum under Oliver Cromwell, who banned Christmas in 1651, but it re-emerged in the late 17th Century. Right up until the 1950s, Hogmanay was the major festival of the winter season. Christmas Day was a normal working day in Scotland until the 1960s and even into the 1970s in some areas. Instead, people took holidays over the New Year period, 31 December to 2 January, with all the feasting and gift-giving which is now associated primarily with Christmas. By the 1980s/90s, Christmas had once again become a huge festival, due in large part to the waning influence of the church and the increasing effect of 'international' cultural traditions. However, despite Christmas Day and Boxing Day being made public holidays in the 1960s, as they had been for years in England, Hogmanay is still associated with as much celebration as Christmas in Scotland, if not more. Indeed, both 1 and 2 January are public holidays in Scotland whereas in England only 1 January is a holiday. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- My father I guess was correct in atleast the part regarding the reformation. I found this site interesting, esp the part about Oliver Cromwell who banned Christmas in 1651!! Was this in Scotland or all of Britain? I can only asume it was everywhere. Regards Morag

Hi Guys, after having read the extremely interesting Statistical accounts for a variety of parishes in the county of Argyll, I am wondering if any of the knowledgable people out there might know of a general history book/s that specifically cover the broad area of Knapdale. I've had no luck here in Australia, so thought someone closer to the area might be familiar. Thanks for any assistance Regards Lesley Melbourne, Australia

Margaret Kipp has wisely suggested that I put my question to the entire list. I had asked her what The "Wee Frees" were, as I had never heard the term. She said she believed that it was the "... the Free Presbyterian Church, they were extremely strict and were again things like dancing (which is why my mother stopped going to church)." Does anyone have anything to add to Margaret's definition? Perhaps my mother's family were "Wee Frees", which would explain why my mother wasn't too crazy about them. I can't get over the different Christmas/New Year's celebrations. Maybe the reason why Christmas has been such a big occasion in the US for so many years is the fact that we have so many German descendants, and Christmas has traditionally been a big deal in Germany for a long time. I'm delighted to learn about Hogmanay and to know that it has survived, and even survived Oliver Cromwell. Cheers, Kathleen VH WA state

My mother who just turned 96 and has an excellent memory, was in Toronto at Christmas and talked about Christmas "at home" in Aberfeldy, Perthshire. She said that they would have a beef stew and as a special treat her mother would put sausage in it. That's it - no tree, no presents. The family was Wee Free or Baptists. I believe she said that Christmas and Boxing day were not holidays (unless they fell on a weekend) and she worked those days. She is a very good source of local history in Aberfeldy, and emigrated to Canada in 1946.

Amen to Les's comments. My mother, the 2nd generation Graham descendant, wouldn't talk about the family at all. I learned far more about them from her cousins who rather liked their family, but of course I really regret not asking more questions--and writing things down. My advice would be to talk with all the relatives. Kathleen VH On Jan 21, 2007, at 7:00 AM, Les Horn wrote: > Margaret wrote > >> My mother who just turned 96 and has an excellent memory, was in >> Toronto >> at Christmas and talked about Christmas "at home" in Aberfeldy, >> Perthshire. She said that they would have a beef stew and as a >> special >> treat her mother would put sausage in it. That's it - no tree, no >> presents. The family was Wee Free or Baptists. I believe she >> said that >> Christmas and Boxing day were not holidays (unless they fell on a >> weekend) >> and she worked those days. She is a very good source of local >> history in >> Aberfeldy, and emigrated to Canada in 1946 > > With such a valuable source I trust she's got the tape-recorder, or > it's > modern equivelent, out and is recording her mother's memories. I > regret not > having done so with my Mum before she died. > > Regards > Les > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ARGYLL- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

I am seeking help in finding an Alexander Mc Gregor and wife Euphemia their son John was born in Kilchrenan in 1802 Alexander was a shepherd nothing known of him and family John married a Jean or Jane Walker also from Kilchrenan this leads me to think the family lived in this village any help give please This would bring my G G G G grand father into our tree Hope for some kind person to show me the way to a solution ALMA

Looking for information on Alexander McLarty and Mary McIntyre. Alexander was born in Campbeltown 16 May 1847 to Duncan McLarty and Agnes McCorvey. He md Mary McIntyre 26 Nov 1873 Campbeltown. Mary McIntyre was born Killean and Kilchenzie parish abt 1848 to Alexander McIntyre and Catherine McTaggart (McIntaggart). Alexander and Mary had a dau Catherine abt 1876 Glasgow. Wondering if anyone knows if they had any other children and where they ended up....Lanark or Argyll. Hope someone on list is related. Regards, Jen

Glen asked > First-footed? Help my ignorance. "First Footing" - ancient Scots custom - to first foot is to be the first (foot) over someone's doorstep after "The Bells" at mid-night on 31st December. It was/is generally accepted that this person should, as Sheila says, be "tall dark and handsome" and, in our house at least, bearing a piece of coal for the fire - increasingly difficult in these times of central heating - fortunately, despite having gas central heating, we still have an open fire which our children insist is lit over Christmas and New Year. Regards Les ========================== Lochaber and North Argyll Family History Group - http://tinyurl.com/y6te7n ==========================

> > I recall that until the mid/late 1960's Christmas Day and Boxing > Day were > just normal working days. You only got one of them off if it > happened to > fall on a Sunday. That's incredible! till the late 1960's? Wow. > > Still happens in our 21st Century house. I recall my mother > wouldn't go out > of the house until we'd been first footed. Unfortunately she > couldn't push > me out before the Bells as I failed to meet the criteria - I was > blond and > I'm certainly not tall nor handsome. And I never heard of this custom either - this list is so educational, and I'm enjoying it immensely. Kathleen VH in Washington State, US > > Pity it's such a long way from Adelaide, SA. to Missouri USA. Our > eldest > daughter's in Dublin and that's far enough. > > Regards > Les > Onich, Inverness-shire > Surrounded on 3 sides by Argyll > > [Awaiting your comment Jill in Benderloch, Argyll] > > ========================== > Lochaber and North Argyll Family History Group - http:// > tinyurl.com/y6te7n > ========================== > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ARGYLL- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

On 20/01/07, D & S Tryk <[email protected]> wrote: > She'd have loved knowing she had a tall, dark, handsome great-grandson > who was born on Hogmanay in Adelaide, SA. > Sheila in Missouri > That is some first footing !! regards Jill Bowis www.benderloch.org.uk/forum - Ardchattan history, geology, ecology, genealogy, weather, webcam, local forum www.kintaline.co.uk - where we are, what we do: Kintaline Plant and Poultry Centre

Just a rider to Sheila's comments > My Argyll parents and grandparents (1840s onward) never celebrated > Christmas. It just wasn't part of their culture. I recall that until the mid/late 1960's Christmas Day and Boxing Day were just normal working days. You only got one of them off if it happened to fall on a Sunday. > she made sure our son -- handsome, tall, dark -- was the one to > first-foot. Still happens in our 21st Century house. I recall my mother wouldn't go out of the house until we'd been first footed. Unfortunately she couldn't push me out before the Bells as I failed to meet the criteria - I was blond and I'm certainly not tall nor handsome. > a tall, dark, handsome great-grandson who was born on Hogmanay. Pity it's such a long way from Adelaide, SA. to Missouri USA. Our eldest daughter's in Dublin and that's far enough. Regards Les Onich, Inverness-shire Surrounded on 3 sides by Argyll [Awaiting your comment Jill in Benderloch, Argyll] ========================== Lochaber and North Argyll Family History Group - http://tinyurl.com/y6te7n ==========================

Thank you so much to the several people who kindly replied today to my marooned email, am working at getting the problem fixed. Best wishes, Meg

My Argyll parents and grandparents (1840s onward) never celebrated Christmas. It just wasn't part of their culture. New Year's was the big day. When I visited Oban from the US as a small child, they rallied and gave me a tree and presents at Christmas. (Nothing like iPODs or computers or plasma TV sets, mind you!) But it was the exception, not the rule in 1929. My mother always insisted on phoning us up at midnight on New Year's as long as she lived. And she made sure our son -- handsome, tall, dark -- was the one to first-foot. It helped that he played the pipes, too, and could rouse the neighborhood. She'd have loved knowing she had a tall, dark, handsome great-grandson who was born on Hogmanay in Adelaide, SA. Sheila in Missouri

Sandy in Australia Although I do not intervene much in family history matters, I was a little intrigued by the request to find Lucy McColl. I happened to be in GROS today on other business and thought that I might spend a quarter of an hour having a look at the possibilities of the case. The first point I would make is that the name Lucy is a little unusual for Argyll, but there are some instances, as anyone who checks the Censuses can discover, and there are several in the Appin area. Secondly it has been assumed that this particular Lucy McColl lived in Lismore. I would point out that all this may arise from a misunderstanding of the parishes of North Argyll. The old 18th century civil parish is Lismore and Appin (in earlier times it was called Kilmaluag) and the complication is that, for various reasons, this was converted into three registration districts, Lismore, Duror, and Glencoe and Ballachulish. If one looks for a married woman called Lucy McColl late in life dying in the 1890's there is one in the Registration district of Glencoe and Ballachulish in 1893 who died aged 93 on 13th June. She was not the widow of John McColl but the widow of Duncan McColl, a slate quarrier, and she must have been married before 1855 because the Census of 1861 shows her with children in their 20's.Her maiden name was not McColl but McLachlan. What about the marriage between 1855 and 1861? Interestingly a John McColl, who was the son of Duncan McColl and Lucy McLachlan, married an Ann McColl on 25 November 1857. Have we got a lost generation here? As usual in these cases would that it were all so simple. There is a Lucy McColl married to a John McColl in the 1851 Census of Lismore which means that she was married in the 1840's and she is still in the Census in 1871. All thatI was able to establish about her that she did not die in the 1890s in the Lismore and Appin area. Frank Bigwood

It's a bit out of season to ask this question, but a random conversation with my father a couple of days ago got me to thinking. We somehow got onto the topic of Christmas. And how it wasn't celebrated when he was a child. My father was born in Perthshire in the 1930's, in a little cottage on the Drummond castle estate, where his father was the estate carter. His father was born in the 1880's at Finnart, Kinloch Rannoch and his father was b. in Aruindle, Argyll in the 1860's. They where both Shepherds. My father was saying when he was a child the estate workers never really celebrated xmas and the workers never had holiday over the xmas period - there holiday/time off was over New Year instead. (some wild tales of Nerdy's past followed this chat!!) My fathers mother was English - from Northants/Oxon and so she did celebrate xmas - giving the children presents (an orange and a 2nd hand book usually! - how times have changed!!). She was quite a kind soft woman, whereas my grandfather was less sentimental and told my grandmother she was 'filling there heads with nonsense' regarding Santa Claus. He was a sternish, gaelic speaking man, born in 1885, perhaps his attitude is a reflection of him, rather than the time of the 1930's/40's - I can't say. But, getting to the point, It made me wonder what xmas was like in the Highlands? Was Argyll (or elsewhere) inclined to ignore xmas? My mother is from Glasgow and b. agn in the 1930's her experience of xmas is totally different - they where very poor as her father died in WW2 when she was 4 years old, but they always celebrated xmas. Her background is different I guess, as 3 of her grandparents where Irish, the remaining one being from the Isle of Bute. I was born in England so the concept of no xmas is a foreign one to me (also being younger). Though it's funny on thinking about it - as a child in a tiny Northamptonshire Village I recall now that they never celebrated New Year. Whereas we, as the village slept, would always sit up (my father with a good dram in front of the fire, and either him or me sent out the back with a lump of coal to walk round the house and first foot at the front door. We where both the darkest haired and my mother was adamant that it had to be someone dark that first footed). I would love to know how or if xmas was celebrated. My father told me that lack of festivities in the past possibly stems from the fact that Xmas wasn't celebrated after the reformation in many parts of Scotland, as it was seen as being too catholic. Anyway I will stop waffling! - Does anyone have any knowledge or thoughts on this? Thanks Morag

Kirsten McTavish: I have found a Henry Robson, who immigrated to Toronto shortly after WW1. I don't know if it is the same Henry Robson who married your ancestor Susan Boyd ? ? Do you have any pictures of him, circa. 1915 ? ? If so, I may be able to confirm that I have the right person. I haven't found anything on Susan yet. But will keep trying. I'll keep you posted of any new findings. John Shoemaker

Morag, thanks so much for your post. I am several generations removed from Scotland, England and Ireland -- my great grandparents (he was Henry Lancaster Graham, Scotland; she was Rose Mills Loder, England) came here to the US in 1866, and they were the most recent immigrants of my ancestors. My mother, granddaughter of those ggrandparents, complained that her Scottish relatives were very "dour". I knew only one of her Scottish-descended uncles and he was delightful. So I would love to hear stories about what life and folk were like in the last century. I hope you keep this record written down, and share it with your family. Kathleen Van Heuit On Jan 19, 2007, at 10:23 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > It's a bit out of season to ask this question, but a random > conversation with > my father a couple of days ago got me to thinking. > We somehow got onto the topic of Christmas. And how it wasn't > celebrated when > he was a child. > > My father was born in Perthshire in the 1930's, in a little cottage > on the > Drummond castle estate, where his father was the estate carter. > His father was > born in the 1880's at Finnart, Kinloch Rannoch and his father was > b. in > Aruindle, Argyll in the 1860's. They where both Shepherds. > > My father was saying when he was a child the estate workers never > really > celebrated xmas and the workers never had holiday over the xmas > period - there > holiday/time off was over New Year instead. (some wild tales of > Nerdy's past > followed this chat!!) > > My fathers mother was English - from Northants/Oxon and so she did > celebrate > xmas - giving the children presents (an orange and a 2nd hand book > usually! - > how times have changed!!). She was quite a kind soft woman, > whereas my > grandfather was less sentimental and told my grandmother she was > 'filling there > heads with nonsense' regarding Santa Claus. He was a sternish, > gaelic speaking > man, born in 1885, perhaps his attitude is a reflection of him, > rather than the > time of the 1930's/40's - I can't say. > > But, getting to the point, It made me wonder what xmas was like in the > Highlands? Was Argyll (or elsewhere) inclined to ignore xmas? > My mother is from Glasgow and b. agn in the 1930's her experience > of xmas is > totally different - they where very poor as her father died in WW2 > when she > was 4 years old, but they always celebrated xmas. Her background > is different I > guess, as 3 of her grandparents where Irish, the remaining one > being from the > Isle of Bute. > > I was born in England so the concept of no xmas is a foreign one to > me (also > being younger). Though it's funny on thinking about it - as a > child in a tiny > Northamptonshire Village I recall now that they never celebrated > New Year. > Whereas we, as the village slept, would always sit up (my father > with a good > dram in front of the fire, and either him or me sent out the back > with a lump of > coal to walk round the house and first foot at the front door. We > where both > the darkest haired and my mother was adamant that it had to be > someone dark > that first footed). > > > I would love to know how or if xmas was celebrated. > My father told me that lack of festivities in the past possibly > stems from > the fact that Xmas wasn't celebrated after the reformation in many > parts of > Scotland, as it was seen as being too catholic. > > Anyway I will stop waffling! - Does anyone have any knowledge or > thoughts on > this? > > Thanks > Morag > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-ARGYLL- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Looking for information on Alexander McLarty and Mary McIntyre. Alexander was born in Campbeltown 16 May 1847 to Duncan McLarty and Agnes McCorvey. He md Mary McIntyre 26 Nov 1873 Campbeltown. Mary McIntyre was born Killean and Kilchenzie parish abt 1848 to Alexander McIntyre and Catherine McTaggart (McIntaggart). Alexander and Mary had a dau Catherine abt 1876 Glasgow. Wondering if anyone knows if they had any other children and where they ended up....Lanark or Argyll. Hope someone on list is related. Regards, Jen