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1981- Obituaries Oct. 28- RUTH SMITH BELUE, 69 w/o Earl Belue , died Tuesday. Native of Greer; lived in Sptbg. for the last 5 years; member of the First Bapt. church, Greer; one of the first Gray Ladied at Allen Bennett Memorial hospital. Also surviving; son, KENNETH NORMAN BELUE, Sptbg; brother, J.L. SMITH, Greenwood; sisters, MRS. MAE PATTERSON, Greenwood, MRS. LILLIAN WALLENZINE, Clinton; 2 grandchildren. Services at Wood Mortuary, burial in Hillcrest Memorial Gardens. ----- Chesnee, Oct. 28- JOHN H. [Hub] SUTTLES, 55, h/o PAULINE WALKER SUTTLES, died at his home after a long illness. Native of Sptbg. Co.; s/o the late BEN and EFFIE HENDERSON SUTTLES; member of the First Bapt. church, Chesnee, WW11 vet. and prisoner of war for 13 months; retired textile employee; Chesnee Masonic Lodge No. 294. Surviving; son, DANNY SUTTLES of the home; daughter, MRS. DEBBIE SCRUGGS, Chesnee; brother, ARTHUR SUTTLES, Chesnee; sister, MRS. MARY JOHNSON, Aberdeen, N.C. Services at First Bapt. church by the Rev.s TROY GREGG ans BOBBY LINDSEY, Burial in Springhill Mem. Gardens. Chesnee Masonic Lodge No. 294 will serve as honary escort. ----- Free post- nancie --- Nancie O'Sullivan --- drayton5@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

In a message dated 2/24/2003 4:22:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, Toomean2@aol.com writes: > -T. M. GLENN visited Greers yesterday on business. > > -Mrs. M. H. DANIEL and sons, Otis and Paul, have returned to Spartanburg, > after spending a while with her parents, Mr. and Mrs. T. M. GLENN. > > Is this Tyree M. and Mary E. Hendrix Glenn?

In a message dated 2/24/2003 2:08:36 PM Central Standard Time, donkelly@grovenet.net writes: > I am still disappointed that I was taught a pack of lies in school. Even > at our tender ages I am sure we would have understood and respected the > truth. > By and large I believe that is still being taught in a lot of places.

In a message dated 2/24/2003 2:08:36 PM Central Standard Time, donkelly@grovenet.net writes: > My school teachers in California from the fourth grade through high > school history all called it "The Civil War" and that was the name given > in the text books. > > The textbooks said that Lincoln fought the war to free the slaves. Same here in Tennessee, on both counts. We were surely misled about the facts.

I have always considered a Civil War to be one in which some rebel faction seeks to overthrow a Government. That was not the case in our own Late Unpleasantness. I much prefer this term. As to slavery, we must remember that the average Southern soldier never owned a slave. He was lucky to have food on his table and a roof over his head. And when President Lincoln started interjecting slavery into the War issues, the Northern troops darn near revolted. So you can't paint the South all black and the North all white. There was plenty of blame to go around! Mickey Mildred "Mickey" Fournier PO Box 1967, Lake City, FL 32056 mailto:mfournier@atlantic.net

Somebody asked about mad stones the other day. I surely didn't know they came from deer stomachs (thanks, Lisa!)but I do know that my great-grandmother had one. As late as the 1950s people used to come from miles around to get her when someone had been bitten by an animal suspected of having rabies. She rubbed it on the bite. There was more to it than the stone itself, the person who used it had to have some sort of "gift." Mickey Mildred "Mickey" Fournier PO Box 1967, Lake City, FL 32056 mailto:mfournier@atlantic.net

, I have been going through my records. I have a Oliver Evans in the census of my great great grandfather Thomas Evans. He is listed as a child of five years in the 1850 Spartanburg County Cenus. Thomas Evans 43 M Farmer Wales Nice Evans 40 F. SC. Joseph Evans 13 M. SC Rachel Evans 7 F. SC Oliver Evans 5 M SC Milton Evans 3 M SC Rebecca Evans 1 F. S.C. Here is what I know about them. Thomas and Nice/Nicy/ Eunice Evans lived near the Cowpens Battleground. Nicy was the daughter of Robert Price and Rachel Turner Price. I am pretty sure that the Joseph Evans was Nicy's son before she married Thomas. I think that he went by Price instead of Evans. Joseph was married to a Martin and also to Sarah Potter. Joseph died somewhere around 1917. Rachel Evans was married to General J. Marion Johnson. He was in the civil war. Rachel Evans Johnson was the first wife of General Marion Johnson and the mother of his first five children, namely Emily, James Pinkney, Thomas, Mary, and Robert Johnson. Rachel was born about 1842 and died August 22, 1901. She is buried in New Pleasant Baptist Church Cemetery. She married General Marion Johnson about 1864. I am afraid that that is all the information that I have on Oliver. We have no record of what happen to him. I bet he is one of the ones you have in your records. Milton Evans---we have no information on him Rebecca Evans was married to John Tyler Johnson brother ot J. Marion Johnson. John Tyler was in the civil war also. Rebecca had a child before she was married. His name was Oliver Evans also. This Oliver, the son of Rebecca, was born July 14, 1872 and died January 27, 1948. So, I guess he was named after her brother Oliver. Rebecca was the third wife of John Tyler. Rebecca was born about 1849 and died March 16, 1916. She is buried at New. Pleasant Baptist Church Cemetery. John Tyler was born about 1845 and died May 7, 1930. Buried at New Pleasant Baptist Church Cemetery. In the 1910 Cherokee County Census John T. Johnson M W 64 Rebecca F. W 60 wife Oliver Evans m W. stepson 37 single There was two more children born to Thomas and Nice Evans. One was my great grandfather Robert E. Lee. Evans born Dec. 24, 1850. He married Susan Hester Williams. He died December 30, 1930. Susan was the daughter of Noah Williams and Harriet Phelps The other child was Mary Evans. Mary was born August 9, 1852. She married Columbus Oliver Wilson, Sr. Mary died Oct. 16, 1925. There may also have been one other child of Thomas and Nice Evans. Sarah Evans may have been there daughter. She married a Joe Price. She may have been born in 1846. I hope that this helps you some. If you have anymore information on these families I would love to have it. Also do you have a Lewis Henderson in your records? Thank you Judy Carver

Can't address that specific question, but IMHO many local laws ( like Jim Crow) were patently unfair. Incidentally, beside the instant point, but after the war a sizeable number of former slaves made a new home in Liberia. I don't know the details of how they got there, but today find surnames like Smith and Jones among the citizens. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mildred "Mickey" Fournier" <mfournier@atlantic.net> To: <SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 1:18 AM Subject: RE: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > Don: Is it not true that slave-owners who granted freedom to their slaves > were forced to post huge bonds to ensure they would not become a burden on > the taxpayers? In some cases, it was just too expensive to let them go! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Kelly [mailto:donkelly@grovenet.net] > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 10:05 AM > To: SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > > > To one of several good comments Stanley, the answer is YES, slavery > would have ended anyway. > > Externally, Britain in 1812 outlawed slavery. For British /Americans > that legal move was more supportive of an evolving human rights ideology > than it was legally enforceable on American soil. > > Internally, legislators from the south had already made moves to limit > the spread of slavery to other states. Kentucky was the first state > placed out of bounds to slave owners. > > But the same eyes that saw Kentucky as a free state also saw other > states north and west as free states in which slavery would not be > tolerated. Kansas I believe was one of those. > > The descendents of the English Colonists held most of the plantations > where slaves were kept (I don't know what percentage were slave owners, > or English for that matter), but pressure upon them to reform was > growing as new machines replaced the need for so much manpower. > > So YES, slavery would have ended anyway, but certainly not as fast. > > The biggest factor IMHO that caused the war was that the south had a > thriving trade with Europe, which incidentally included better guns, > better cannons, and more money for their cotton than the north could > produce, and more money than the north was willing to pay for the > cotton. > > As a matter of record, congressmen (and reps) of the north (more of > them) ganged up on the congressmen/reps from the south and began passing > laws detrimental to the south. > "Unfair Enactments" they were called. An so they were. > > The situation became so overbalanced that the southern delegation, > unable to achieve equal representation, as a body walked out and went > home. > > Among the laws passed was laws to give industries in the north a > monopoly on sales to the south. > > Add to that the northern navy, as a matter of government policy, > harassed the ships who > brought trade goods to the south, much through New Orleans......even > boarding foreign ships in the open sea and even on the Mississippi River > on occasion. > > So the question is, under those circumstances, if you were a southerner, > what would be your first priority? > > Don Kelly > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stanley Perry" <sperry1@twmi.rr.com> > To: <SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:57 PM > Subject: Re: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > > > > Mr. Harrison: > > Your reading about the Civil War is obviously selective. You should > view > > the fine progrom on HBO "Unchained Memories: Readings from the Slave > > Narratives" and listen, from their own mouths, to how "tolerant and > > compassionate" southern slave owners were to their slaves. It will > turn > > your stomach. These records are in the National Archives and there > are many > > oral histories in black families regarding slave life. I'm not saying > that > > there were some slaveowners who weren't kind, but the fact remains > that they > > were considered and treated as property the same as the owners' > livestock. > > (Look at tax records of plantations). True, some northern states did > have > > repressive laws against blacks, but chattel slavery did not exist. > The > > Underground Railroad succeeded because of people, black and white, who > > risked their lives to disobey the 1850 Fugitive Slave law which > allowed > > slaveowners to pursue escaped slaves into northern states. Regardless > of > > Lincoln's original motivations, the Union and Confederate soldiers > knew that > > the war was over the institution of slavery. "States Rights" > ultimately > > meant the right of the South to continue this institution. In 1864, > Lincoln > > opened up the ranks of the Union Army to black men and more than > 200,000 > > free men and former slaves enlisted, including two of my great > grandfathers. > > They were most certainly fighting for the end of slavery, not to > preserve > > the Union. > > > > As far as your comments about the slave trade, black Africans did, in > some > > areas, participate in the enslavement of members of rival tribes as a > result > > of being offered weapons and other valuables to do so by European > slave > > traders. But to say that all slaves were sold into slavery by other > blacks > > is highly inaccurate. Colonials in America had tried to enslave > Native > > Americans, but were unsuccessful because the Native American could > easily > > escape into country that they knew better that the colonists. > Africans were > > seen as more ideal because they did not know the language and the > country, > > and could easily be identified if they tried to escape because of > their > > color. > > Do you honestly believe that the South would have ended slavery > voluntarily? > > After the institution of slavery ended, psychological slavery in the > form of > > Jim Crow laws was established, which existed long after the states you > > referred to had abolished anti-black laws. But,the whole nation, > north and > > south, I'm sure you will agree, has been tainted and haunted by this > > history. > > Pat Perry, slave descendant. > > ---- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sam Harrison" <samharrison@knology.net> > > To: <SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 9:32 PM > > Subject: RE: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > > > > > > > I don't want to start another War here, but I have to comment ..... > > > > > > I still prefer to call it "The War of Northern Aggression" or "The > War of > > > States Rights." > > > > > > It is hard to believe, but in a number of Northern states, free > blacks had > > > fewer rights than slaves in the South. Historian Charles Adams > reports > > that > > > Indiana and Ohio prohibited free Negroes from entering the state. > Lincoln > > > never spoke against the Illinois law (1853) that barred black people > from > > > residing in that state. The Oregon constitution (1859) prohibited > blacks > > > from coming into the state, holding property, making contracts or > filing a > > > lawsuit. > > > > > > Northern states that permitted black residency did not permit blacks > to > > > attend the theater or school, nor could blacks be admitted to > hospitals. > > > Alexis De Tocqueville wrote that the Southern people were "much more > > > tolerant and compassionate" toward blacks than were Northerners. In > 1862, > > > the North British Review wrote that "free Negroes are treated like > lepers" > > > in the North. > > > > > > President Lincoln made it abundantly clear that the Civil War was > not > > about > > > slavery. He invaded the Confederacy in order to maintain the union > and the > > > revenue base for his expansionist plans. > > > > > > In 1862, Lincoln wrote a public letter to New York Tribune editor > Horace > > > Greeley: "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, > and > > is > > > not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union > > without > > > freeing any slave, I would do it. What I do about slavery, and the > colored > > > race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union." > > > > > > When Lincoln declared the Emancipation Proclamation as a wartime > measure > > > hoping to stir up a slave rebellion in the South (Northern slaves > and > > those > > > in Confederate territory under Union control were not freed), Union > > General > > > "Fighting Joe" Hooker wrote to Lincoln that "a large element of the > army > > had > > > taken sides against it, declaring that they would never have > embarked in > > the > > > war had they anticipated this action of the government." > > > > > > Pulitzer Prize winner David Herbert Donald documents that Lincoln, > "well > > > into his presidency," wanted to solve the "Negro problem" by sending > all > > > blacks back to Africa. Lincoln had a colonization scheme for sending > > blacks > > > to Liberia. This would keep blacks from migrating to the Northern > states > > > "where they would compete with white laborers." Lincoln justified > his > > scheme > > > in terms of "restoring a captive people to their long-lost > father-land, > > with > > > bright prospects for the future." > > > > > > If Lincoln had not been assassinated by John Wilkes Booth, he might > have > > > carried off his scheme. The Northern states would have > wholeheartedly > > > supported it, and perhaps the defeated Southern states, as well. > > > > > > Lincoln had the power to implement his scheme. He had acquired > dictatorial > > > powers early in the war simply by asserting them. He ignored rulings > by > > the > > > chief justice of the Supreme Court, suspended habeas corpus, > arrested > > state > > > legislators and newspaper editors, and exiled a U.S. representative. > > Indeed, > > > it was his exercise of dictatorial power that caused his > assassination. > > > > > > Slaves were brought by European colonists to the South prior to the > > > existence of the United States. Slaves were brought there not > because the > > > Confederacy (which did not exist at that time) wished to mistreat > blacks, > > > but because there was no labor force to work the fertile > agricultural > > lands. > > > > > > The black slaves brought to North America were captured and sold > into > > > slavery by other blacks. The African slave market in Dahomey was > operated > > by > > > blacks. The Southern states emerged from colonies in which slavery > was an > > > established institution. As economic historians have noted, slavery > was on > > > the way out as a growing population provided a free labor market. > > > > > > Just started back to college at age 57 to get my degree. Kids today > think > > > the War was only fought over slavery (Revisionist History & > Politically > > > Correct Thinking). Trying to educate them.... The Professors won't. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Don Kelly [mailto:donkelly@grovenet.net] > > > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 11:10 AM > > > To: SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > > > > > > > > > Civil War is a rather short and more traditional name of that war. > > > > > > Newspapers in the south referred to it as The War of Northern > > > Aggression. > > > > > > That was the name used by my relatives in Arkansas....even after > 1975. > > > > > > Newspapers in the north probably used a different name. > > > > > > By any name a half million young lives were snuffed out because > Lincoln > > > and the big manufacturing interests in the north wanted monopolies > in > > > sales of products in and to politically dominate the southern > states. > > > > > > In those respects slavery had little to do with why the war was > started. > > > > > > Don > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Nancie O'Sullivan" <drayton5@earthlink.net> > > > To: <SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 12:40 AM > > > Subject: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kenneth, why do you prefer to call it 'Civil War > > > > "? > > > > > > > > nancie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Nancie O'Sullivan > > > > > > > > --- drayton5@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > > > > If you need to unsubscribe send > mailto:SCSparta-l-request@rootsweb.com > > > with one word in the bottom of the message: unsubscribe We hope > you > > > will join us again soon. > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > > > records, go to: > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03 > > > > > > > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > > > The messages to this list are archived at RootsWeb. You can > > > find past messages by going to: > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index and typing in: SCSparta. > > > > > > ============================== > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > > > genealogy records, go to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > ______________________________ > > > > > > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > > The South Carolina Archives has put some record indices on line: > http://www.archivesindex.sc.gov/search/default.asp You can find > information there to order the actual records. > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03 > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > The South Carolina Archives has put some record indices on line: > http://www.archivesindex.sc.gov/search/default.asp You can find information > there to order the actual records. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go > to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > Newcomers: Please introduce yourself to the list and tell us about your Spartanburg County interests. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03

AMEN!!! Joy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stanley Perry" <sperry1@twmi.rr.com> To: <SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > Do you honestly believe that the South would have ended slavery voluntarily? > After the institution of slavery ended, psychological slavery in the form of > Jim Crow laws was established, which existed long after the states you > referred to had abolished anti-black laws. But,the whole nation, north and > south, I'm sure you will agree, has been tainted and haunted by this > history.

As I said..... I didn't want to start another war. -----Original Message----- From: Stanley Perry [mailto:sperry1@twmi.rr.com] Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 3:57 PM To: SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States Mr. Harrison: Your reading about the Civil War is obviously selective. You should view the fine progrom on HBO "Unchained Memories: Readings from the Slave Narratives" and listen, from their own mouths, to how "tolerant and compassionate" southern slave owners were to their slaves. It will turn your stomach. These records are in the National Archives and there are many oral histories in black families regarding slave life. I'm not saying that there were some slaveowners who weren't kind, but the fact remains that they were considered and treated as property the same as the owners' livestock. (Look at tax records of plantations). True, some northern states did have repressive laws against blacks, but chattel slavery did not exist. The Underground Railroad succeeded because of people, black and white, who risked their lives to disobey the 1850 Fugitive Slave law which allowed slaveowners to pursue escaped slaves into northern states. Regardless of Lincoln's original motivations, the Union and Confederate soldiers knew that the war was over the institution of slavery. "States Rights" ultimately meant the right of the South to continue this institution. In 1864, Lincoln opened up the ranks of the Union Army to black men and more than 200,000 free men and former slaves enlisted, including two of my great grandfathers. They were most certainly fighting for the end of slavery, not to preserve the Union. As far as your comments about the slave trade, black Africans did, in some areas, participate in the enslavement of members of rival tribes as a result of being offered weapons and other valuables to do so by European slave traders. But to say that all slaves were sold into slavery by other blacks is highly inaccurate. Colonials in America had tried to enslave Native Americans, but were unsuccessful because the Native American could easily escape into country that they knew better that the colonists. Africans were seen as more ideal because they did not know the language and the country, and could easily be identified if they tried to escape because of their color. Do you honestly believe that the South would have ended slavery voluntarily? After the institution of slavery ended, psychological slavery in the form of Jim Crow laws was established, which existed long after the states you referred to had abolished anti-black laws. But,the whole nation, north and south, I'm sure you will agree, has been tainted and haunted by this history. Pat Perry, slave descendant. ---- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Harrison" <samharrison@knology.net> To: <SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 9:32 PM Subject: RE: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > I don't want to start another War here, but I have to comment ..... > > I still prefer to call it "The War of Northern Aggression" or "The War of > States Rights." > > It is hard to believe, but in a number of Northern states, free blacks had > fewer rights than slaves in the South. Historian Charles Adams reports that > Indiana and Ohio prohibited free Negroes from entering the state. Lincoln > never spoke against the Illinois law (1853) that barred black people from > residing in that state. The Oregon constitution (1859) prohibited blacks > from coming into the state, holding property, making contracts or filing a > lawsuit. > > Northern states that permitted black residency did not permit blacks to > attend the theater or school, nor could blacks be admitted to hospitals. > Alexis De Tocqueville wrote that the Southern people were "much more > tolerant and compassionate" toward blacks than were Northerners. In 1862, > the North British Review wrote that "free Negroes are treated like lepers" > in the North. > > President Lincoln made it abundantly clear that the Civil War was not about > slavery. He invaded the Confederacy in order to maintain the union and the > revenue base for his expansionist plans. > > In 1862, Lincoln wrote a public letter to New York Tribune editor Horace > Greeley: "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is > not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without > freeing any slave, I would do it. What I do about slavery, and the colored > race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union." > > When Lincoln declared the Emancipation Proclamation as a wartime measure > hoping to stir up a slave rebellion in the South (Northern slaves and those > in Confederate territory under Union control were not freed), Union General > "Fighting Joe" Hooker wrote to Lincoln that "a large element of the army had > taken sides against it, declaring that they would never have embarked in the > war had they anticipated this action of the government." > > Pulitzer Prize winner David Herbert Donald documents that Lincoln, "well > into his presidency," wanted to solve the "Negro problem" by sending all > blacks back to Africa. Lincoln had a colonization scheme for sending blacks > to Liberia. This would keep blacks from migrating to the Northern states > "where they would compete with white laborers." Lincoln justified his scheme > in terms of "restoring a captive people to their long-lost father-land, with > bright prospects for the future." > > If Lincoln had not been assassinated by John Wilkes Booth, he might have > carried off his scheme. The Northern states would have wholeheartedly > supported it, and perhaps the defeated Southern states, as well. > > Lincoln had the power to implement his scheme. He had acquired dictatorial > powers early in the war simply by asserting them. He ignored rulings by the > chief justice of the Supreme Court, suspended habeas corpus, arrested state > legislators and newspaper editors, and exiled a U.S. representative. Indeed, > it was his exercise of dictatorial power that caused his assassination. > > Slaves were brought by European colonists to the South prior to the > existence of the United States. Slaves were brought there not because the > Confederacy (which did not exist at that time) wished to mistreat blacks, > but because there was no labor force to work the fertile agricultural lands. > > The black slaves brought to North America were captured and sold into > slavery by other blacks. The African slave market in Dahomey was operated by > blacks. The Southern states emerged from colonies in which slavery was an > established institution. As economic historians have noted, slavery was on > the way out as a growing population provided a free labor market. > > Just started back to college at age 57 to get my degree. Kids today think > the War was only fought over slavery (Revisionist History & Politically > Correct Thinking). Trying to educate them.... The Professors won't. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Kelly [mailto:donkelly@grovenet.net] > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 11:10 AM > To: SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > > > Civil War is a rather short and more traditional name of that war. > > Newspapers in the south referred to it as The War of Northern > Aggression. > > That was the name used by my relatives in Arkansas....even after 1975. > > Newspapers in the north probably used a different name. > > By any name a half million young lives were snuffed out because Lincoln > and the big manufacturing interests in the north wanted monopolies in > sales of products in and to politically dominate the southern states. > > In those respects slavery had little to do with why the war was started. > > Don > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nancie O'Sullivan" <drayton5@earthlink.net> > To: <SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 12:40 AM > Subject: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > > > > > > Kenneth, why do you prefer to call it 'Civil War > > "? > > > > nancie > > > > > > > > --- Nancie O'Sullivan > > > > --- drayton5@earthlink.net > > > > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > > If you need to unsubscribe send mailto:SCSparta-l-request@rootsweb.com > with one word in the bottom of the message: unsubscribe We hope you > will join us again soon. > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03 > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > The messages to this list are archived at RootsWeb. You can > find past messages by going to: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index and typing in: SCSparta. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > ______________________________ ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== The South Carolina Archives has put some record indices on line: http://www.archivesindex.sc.gov/search/default.asp You can find information there to order the actual records. ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Mr. Harrison: Your reading about the Civil War is obviously selective. You should view the fine progrom on HBO "Unchained Memories: Readings from the Slave Narratives" and listen, from their own mouths, to how "tolerant and compassionate" southern slave owners were to their slaves. It will turn your stomach. These records are in the National Archives and there are many oral histories in black families regarding slave life. I'm not saying that there were some slaveowners who weren't kind, but the fact remains that they were considered and treated as property the same as the owners' livestock. (Look at tax records of plantations). True, some northern states did have repressive laws against blacks, but chattel slavery did not exist. The Underground Railroad succeeded because of people, black and white, who risked their lives to disobey the 1850 Fugitive Slave law which allowed slaveowners to pursue escaped slaves into northern states. Regardless of Lincoln's original motivations, the Union and Confederate soldiers knew that the war was over the institution of slavery. "States Rights" ultimately meant the right of the South to continue this institution. In 1864, Lincoln opened up the ranks of the Union Army to black men and more than 200,000 free men and former slaves enlisted, including two of my great grandfathers. They were most certainly fighting for the end of slavery, not to preserve the Union. As far as your comments about the slave trade, black Africans did, in some areas, participate in the enslavement of members of rival tribes as a result of being offered weapons and other valuables to do so by European slave traders. But to say that all slaves were sold into slavery by other blacks is highly inaccurate. Colonials in America had tried to enslave Native Americans, but were unsuccessful because the Native American could easily escape into country that they knew better that the colonists. Africans were seen as more ideal because they did not know the language and the country, and could easily be identified if they tried to escape because of their color. Do you honestly believe that the South would have ended slavery voluntarily? After the institution of slavery ended, psychological slavery in the form of Jim Crow laws was established, which existed long after the states you referred to had abolished anti-black laws. But,the whole nation, north and south, I'm sure you will agree, has been tainted and haunted by this history. Pat Perry, slave descendant. ---- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Harrison" <samharrison@knology.net> To: <SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 9:32 PM Subject: RE: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > I don't want to start another War here, but I have to comment ..... > > I still prefer to call it "The War of Northern Aggression" or "The War of > States Rights." > > It is hard to believe, but in a number of Northern states, free blacks had > fewer rights than slaves in the South. Historian Charles Adams reports that > Indiana and Ohio prohibited free Negroes from entering the state. Lincoln > never spoke against the Illinois law (1853) that barred black people from > residing in that state. The Oregon constitution (1859) prohibited blacks > from coming into the state, holding property, making contracts or filing a > lawsuit. > > Northern states that permitted black residency did not permit blacks to > attend the theater or school, nor could blacks be admitted to hospitals. > Alexis De Tocqueville wrote that the Southern people were "much more > tolerant and compassionate" toward blacks than were Northerners. In 1862, > the North British Review wrote that "free Negroes are treated like lepers" > in the North. > > President Lincoln made it abundantly clear that the Civil War was not about > slavery. He invaded the Confederacy in order to maintain the union and the > revenue base for his expansionist plans. > > In 1862, Lincoln wrote a public letter to New York Tribune editor Horace > Greeley: "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is > not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without > freeing any slave, I would do it. What I do about slavery, and the colored > race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union." > > When Lincoln declared the Emancipation Proclamation as a wartime measure > hoping to stir up a slave rebellion in the South (Northern slaves and those > in Confederate territory under Union control were not freed), Union General > "Fighting Joe" Hooker wrote to Lincoln that "a large element of the army had > taken sides against it, declaring that they would never have embarked in the > war had they anticipated this action of the government." > > Pulitzer Prize winner David Herbert Donald documents that Lincoln, "well > into his presidency," wanted to solve the "Negro problem" by sending all > blacks back to Africa. Lincoln had a colonization scheme for sending blacks > to Liberia. This would keep blacks from migrating to the Northern states > "where they would compete with white laborers." Lincoln justified his scheme > in terms of "restoring a captive people to their long-lost father-land, with > bright prospects for the future." > > If Lincoln had not been assassinated by John Wilkes Booth, he might have > carried off his scheme. The Northern states would have wholeheartedly > supported it, and perhaps the defeated Southern states, as well. > > Lincoln had the power to implement his scheme. He had acquired dictatorial > powers early in the war simply by asserting them. He ignored rulings by the > chief justice of the Supreme Court, suspended habeas corpus, arrested state > legislators and newspaper editors, and exiled a U.S. representative. Indeed, > it was his exercise of dictatorial power that caused his assassination. > > Slaves were brought by European colonists to the South prior to the > existence of the United States. Slaves were brought there not because the > Confederacy (which did not exist at that time) wished to mistreat blacks, > but because there was no labor force to work the fertile agricultural lands. > > The black slaves brought to North America were captured and sold into > slavery by other blacks. The African slave market in Dahomey was operated by > blacks. The Southern states emerged from colonies in which slavery was an > established institution. As economic historians have noted, slavery was on > the way out as a growing population provided a free labor market. > > Just started back to college at age 57 to get my degree. Kids today think > the War was only fought over slavery (Revisionist History & Politically > Correct Thinking). Trying to educate them.... The Professors won't. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Kelly [mailto:donkelly@grovenet.net] > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 11:10 AM > To: SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > > > Civil War is a rather short and more traditional name of that war. > > Newspapers in the south referred to it as The War of Northern > Aggression. > > That was the name used by my relatives in Arkansas....even after 1975. > > Newspapers in the north probably used a different name. > > By any name a half million young lives were snuffed out because Lincoln > and the big manufacturing interests in the north wanted monopolies in > sales of products in and to politically dominate the southern states. > > In those respects slavery had little to do with why the war was started. > > Don > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nancie O'Sullivan" <drayton5@earthlink.net> > To: <SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 12:40 AM > Subject: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > > > > > > Kenneth, why do you prefer to call it 'Civil War > > "? > > > > nancie > > > > > > > > --- Nancie O'Sullivan > > > > --- drayton5@earthlink.net > > > > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > > If you need to unsubscribe send mailto:SCSparta-l-request@rootsweb.com > with one word in the bottom of the message: unsubscribe We hope you > will join us again soon. > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03 > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > The messages to this list are archived at RootsWeb. You can > find past messages by going to: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index and typing in: SCSparta. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > ______________________________

"The Free Lance" Issue May 13, 1904 A Valuable Relic The company flag of company "A" 13th regiment of which Captain B. T. BROCKMAN was captain has been in the sheriff's office for some time. As to how it came and how long it has been there is unknown to the sheriff. The flag is valuable on account of its historic associations. It was saved on the night of the evacuation of Richmond - April 2, 1865, by Dr. T. A. LATAR [ or LALAR] and presented by him to the state of South Carolina. It was made by the sisters and daughters of Capt. David ANDERSON. Sheriff WHITE is anxious to know who left it there and who secured it from the state, in order that it can be returned through proper channel to its rightful owner. John DOBBINS Hurt John DOBBINS was seriously injured by an explosion of a dynamite blast while at work on the abutments for the country bridge across Pacolet river yesterday. A series of blasts had been laid and as Mr. DOBBINS thought all had discharged he went to the rock bed just at the time an explosion occurred. He was injured about the head and body. His wounds may have fatal termination. PELHAM DOTS: -T. M. GLENN visited Greers yesterday on business. -Mrs. M. H. DANIEL and sons, Otis and Paul, have returned to Spartanburg, after spending a while with her parents, Mr. and Mrs. T. M. GLENN. -J. Walter DANIEL of Spartanburg, visited our community this week. -Miss Sibbie SMITH of Greers, is visiting Miss Aurora GLENN. "Physicians advise breathing through the nose, but the average woman can't keep her mouth shut long enough" - I'm not sure I like this - not funny at all! Free Post Lisa

From the numbers Mildred, one cannot realistically label one side pro and the other side anti slavery. You are so right on that point. Historically, by the time 1850 rolled around, only a small percentage of southerners AND northerners owned slaves, though the percentage remained inarguably greater in the south. In teaching of history, it wasn't just the Civil War that was skewed; look a any major event in history to see a biased viewpoint of that event. Most of our school teachers in 1940 thru 1950 had attended college where they were presumably exposed to several credits in American History; I believe they knew the score, but had to teach what was in the books. The curriculum for teaching primary school students was evidently scaled down to providing simplistic answers to complex issues, but by the time students were in high school, they were ready for the truth. I don't blame the teachers alone. People who selected the texts to purchase are equally to blame. Even today text books are selected for reasons other than the truth contained in them. Personal agendas too often influence what is taught in public schools, and that in itself is a great tragedy. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mildred "Mickey" Fournier" <mfournier@atlantic.net> To: <SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 10:47 PM Subject: [SCSPARTA] The War Between the States > I have always considered a Civil War to be one in which some rebel faction > seeks to overthrow a Government. That was not the case in our own Late > Unpleasantness. I much prefer this term. > > As to slavery, we must remember that the average Southern soldier never > owned a slave. He was lucky to have food on his table and a roof over his > head. And when President Lincoln started interjecting slavery into the War > issues, the Northern troops darn near revolted. So you can't paint the South > all black and the North all white. There was plenty of blame to go around! > > Mickey > > Mildred "Mickey" Fournier > PO Box 1967, > Lake City, FL 32056 > mailto:mfournier@atlantic.net > > > > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > The South Carolina Archives has put some record indices on line: http://www.archivesindex.sc.gov/search/default.asp You can find information there to order the actual records. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03

To one of several good comments Stanley, the answer is YES, slavery would have ended anyway. Externally, Britain in 1812 outlawed slavery. For British /Americans that legal move was more supportive of an evolving human rights ideology than it was legally enforceable on American soil. Internally, legislators from the south had already made moves to limit the spread of slavery to other states. Kentucky was the first state placed out of bounds to slave owners. But the same eyes that saw Kentucky as a free state also saw other states north and west as free states in which slavery would not be tolerated. Kansas I believe was one of those. The descendents of the English Colonists held most of the plantations where slaves were kept (I don't know what percentage were slave owners, or English for that matter), but pressure upon them to reform was growing as new machines replaced the need for so much manpower. So YES, slavery would have ended anyway, but certainly not as fast. The biggest factor IMHO that caused the war was that the south had a thriving trade with Europe, which incidentally included better guns, better cannons, and more money for their cotton than the north could produce, and more money than the north was willing to pay for the cotton. As a matter of record, congressmen (and reps) of the north (more of them) ganged up on the congressmen/reps from the south and began passing laws detrimental to the south. "Unfair Enactments" they were called. An so they were. The situation became so overbalanced that the southern delegation, unable to achieve equal representation, as a body walked out and went home. Among the laws passed was laws to give industries in the north a monopoly on sales to the south. Add to that the northern navy, as a matter of government policy, harassed the ships who brought trade goods to the south, much through New Orleans......even boarding foreign ships in the open sea and even on the Mississippi River on occasion. So the question is, under those circumstances, if you were a southerner, what would be your first priority? Don Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stanley Perry" <sperry1@twmi.rr.com> To: <SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > Mr. Harrison: > Your reading about the Civil War is obviously selective. You should view > the fine progrom on HBO "Unchained Memories: Readings from the Slave > Narratives" and listen, from their own mouths, to how "tolerant and > compassionate" southern slave owners were to their slaves. It will turn > your stomach. These records are in the National Archives and there are many > oral histories in black families regarding slave life. I'm not saying that > there were some slaveowners who weren't kind, but the fact remains that they > were considered and treated as property the same as the owners' livestock. > (Look at tax records of plantations). True, some northern states did have > repressive laws against blacks, but chattel slavery did not exist. The > Underground Railroad succeeded because of people, black and white, who > risked their lives to disobey the 1850 Fugitive Slave law which allowed > slaveowners to pursue escaped slaves into northern states. Regardless of > Lincoln's original motivations, the Union and Confederate soldiers knew that > the war was over the institution of slavery. "States Rights" ultimately > meant the right of the South to continue this institution. In 1864, Lincoln > opened up the ranks of the Union Army to black men and more than 200,000 > free men and former slaves enlisted, including two of my great grandfathers. > They were most certainly fighting for the end of slavery, not to preserve > the Union. > > As far as your comments about the slave trade, black Africans did, in some > areas, participate in the enslavement of members of rival tribes as a result > of being offered weapons and other valuables to do so by European slave > traders. But to say that all slaves were sold into slavery by other blacks > is highly inaccurate. Colonials in America had tried to enslave Native > Americans, but were unsuccessful because the Native American could easily > escape into country that they knew better that the colonists. Africans were > seen as more ideal because they did not know the language and the country, > and could easily be identified if they tried to escape because of their > color. > Do you honestly believe that the South would have ended slavery voluntarily? > After the institution of slavery ended, psychological slavery in the form of > Jim Crow laws was established, which existed long after the states you > referred to had abolished anti-black laws. But,the whole nation, north and > south, I'm sure you will agree, has been tainted and haunted by this > history. > Pat Perry, slave descendant. > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "Sam Harrison" <samharrison@knology.net> > To: <SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 9:32 PM > Subject: RE: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > > > > I don't want to start another War here, but I have to comment ..... > > > > I still prefer to call it "The War of Northern Aggression" or "The War of > > States Rights." > > > > It is hard to believe, but in a number of Northern states, free blacks had > > fewer rights than slaves in the South. Historian Charles Adams reports > that > > Indiana and Ohio prohibited free Negroes from entering the state. Lincoln > > never spoke against the Illinois law (1853) that barred black people from > > residing in that state. The Oregon constitution (1859) prohibited blacks > > from coming into the state, holding property, making contracts or filing a > > lawsuit. > > > > Northern states that permitted black residency did not permit blacks to > > attend the theater or school, nor could blacks be admitted to hospitals. > > Alexis De Tocqueville wrote that the Southern people were "much more > > tolerant and compassionate" toward blacks than were Northerners. In 1862, > > the North British Review wrote that "free Negroes are treated like lepers" > > in the North. > > > > President Lincoln made it abundantly clear that the Civil War was not > about > > slavery. He invaded the Confederacy in order to maintain the union and the > > revenue base for his expansionist plans. > > > > In 1862, Lincoln wrote a public letter to New York Tribune editor Horace > > Greeley: "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and > is > > not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union > without > > freeing any slave, I would do it. What I do about slavery, and the colored > > race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union." > > > > When Lincoln declared the Emancipation Proclamation as a wartime measure > > hoping to stir up a slave rebellion in the South (Northern slaves and > those > > in Confederate territory under Union control were not freed), Union > General > > "Fighting Joe" Hooker wrote to Lincoln that "a large element of the army > had > > taken sides against it, declaring that they would never have embarked in > the > > war had they anticipated this action of the government." > > > > Pulitzer Prize winner David Herbert Donald documents that Lincoln, "well > > into his presidency," wanted to solve the "Negro problem" by sending all > > blacks back to Africa. Lincoln had a colonization scheme for sending > blacks > > to Liberia. This would keep blacks from migrating to the Northern states > > "where they would compete with white laborers." Lincoln justified his > scheme > > in terms of "restoring a captive people to their long-lost father-land, > with > > bright prospects for the future." > > > > If Lincoln had not been assassinated by John Wilkes Booth, he might have > > carried off his scheme. The Northern states would have wholeheartedly > > supported it, and perhaps the defeated Southern states, as well. > > > > Lincoln had the power to implement his scheme. He had acquired dictatorial > > powers early in the war simply by asserting them. He ignored rulings by > the > > chief justice of the Supreme Court, suspended habeas corpus, arrested > state > > legislators and newspaper editors, and exiled a U.S. representative. > Indeed, > > it was his exercise of dictatorial power that caused his assassination. > > > > Slaves were brought by European colonists to the South prior to the > > existence of the United States. Slaves were brought there not because the > > Confederacy (which did not exist at that time) wished to mistreat blacks, > > but because there was no labor force to work the fertile agricultural > lands. > > > > The black slaves brought to North America were captured and sold into > > slavery by other blacks. The African slave market in Dahomey was operated > by > > blacks. The Southern states emerged from colonies in which slavery was an > > established institution. As economic historians have noted, slavery was on > > the way out as a growing population provided a free labor market. > > > > Just started back to college at age 57 to get my degree. Kids today think > > the War was only fought over slavery (Revisionist History & Politically > > Correct Thinking). Trying to educate them.... The Professors won't. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Don Kelly [mailto:donkelly@grovenet.net] > > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 11:10 AM > > To: SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > > > > > > Civil War is a rather short and more traditional name of that war. > > > > Newspapers in the south referred to it as The War of Northern > > Aggression. > > > > That was the name used by my relatives in Arkansas....even after 1975. > > > > Newspapers in the north probably used a different name. > > > > By any name a half million young lives were snuffed out because Lincoln > > and the big manufacturing interests in the north wanted monopolies in > > sales of products in and to politically dominate the southern states. > > > > In those respects slavery had little to do with why the war was started. > > > > Don > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Nancie O'Sullivan" <drayton5@earthlink.net> > > To: <SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 12:40 AM > > Subject: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > > > > > > > > > > Kenneth, why do you prefer to call it 'Civil War > > > "? > > > > > > nancie > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Nancie O'Sullivan > > > > > > --- drayton5@earthlink.net > > > > > > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > > > > > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > > > If you need to unsubscribe send mailto:SCSparta-l-request@rootsweb.com > > with one word in the bottom of the message: unsubscribe We hope you > > will join us again soon. > > > > > > ============================== > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > > records, go to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03 > > > > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > > The messages to this list are archived at RootsWeb. You can > > find past messages by going to: > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index and typing in: SCSparta. > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > > genealogy records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > ______________________________ > > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > The South Carolina Archives has put some record indices on line: http://www.archivesindex.sc.gov/search/default.asp You can find information there to order the actual records. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03

"The Free Lance" Issue May 6, 1904 LANDRUM: -Landrum had a destructive fire last night. The store of HAMPTON Bros. was burned. The general opinion is that the store was robbed and then set on fire and the flames were not discovered until the building was too far gone for anything to be saved. -Miss Mattie PAGE has returned to Spartanburg after a visit to her family here. -T. D. EARLE of Spartanburg spent Sunday with his family here. MANNING LAWYER SHOT Magistrate Kills an Attorney, Trouble About a Mule S. M. YOUMANS, magistrate at Manning shot and instantly killed John R. KEELS, a lawyer, lately from Sumter, this afternoon. [May 2] [more if wanted] GIFT TO DR. CARLISLE A Touching episode took place Wednesday at the cheapel [sic] exercises at Wofford College when R. O. LAWTON of the senior class came forward and present to Dr. James H. CARLISLE a gold headed cane as a gift from the students on the occasion of Dr. CARLISLE's 79th birthday. [more] FLATWOODS ITEMS: -Mrs. Berry HENLEY and son visited in the Flatwoods, Monday. -The many friends of Mrs. J. K. WHITE are sorry to learn she is quite sick at her home near this place. -Misses Vassar TRAHAM and Ethel GILBERT were the guest of Mrs. Mary TURNER Monday night. -Mrs, Eli WILLIAMS has been sick but improving. -Mrs. D. A. EVANS is visiting near Whitney. -Bill SHIRLEY visited this place recently. LENIOR HAPPENINGS: -P. L. SPROUSE and family spent last Sunday at Calvin COOK's of the Flatwoods. -Dr. Joe PARRIS spent a few days recently with parents at this place. His wife returned with him. -Ed PARRIS and family of near here spent last Saturday night and Sunday at the home of J. C. PARRIS of this place. -Rev. E. M. ROBERTSON filled his regular appointment at Liberty at 3 o'clock p.m. FAIR FOREST FACTS: -Miss Sue MABRY is reported very sick. -Rhett WINGO is building a new dwelling house. -Newton GREENE and family of Pauline are moving to Fair Forest. -Mrs. Susie SHIRLEY of Union is staying awhile at the home of her brother, John LEE, of this place. free post Lisa

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/EgB.2ACI/2512.1.1.2 Message Board Post: Sir: I live in the area. Dutchman's Creek is behind me on Hwy. 56 just outside of Pauline,S.C. The area is riddeled with the West family. I do not know any West at Dutchman's Creek but there is a large West family living in the area.

My school teachers in California from the fourth grade through high school history all called it "The Civil War" and that was the name given in the text books. The textbooks said that Lincoln fought the war to free the slaves. When I attended college we received a vastly different version of American history, and in far greater detail, and we understood for the first time the real causes of the war. I am still disappointed that I was taught a pack of lies in school. Even at our tender ages I am sure we would have understood and respected the truth. Don Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Evelyne Crocker" <ecrocoil@camalott.com> To: <SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > Nancie; > That is a good question, so many of us refer to it as "THE CIVIL WAR". I > do because that is the way I was taught, my Histoy teachers and books all > referred to it as the "CIVIL WAR". I have a TEXAS History school text book > entitled "TEXAS and TEXANS" published in 1987 which refers to it as "THE > CIVIL WAR". Could it be because it was a "CIVIL UPRAISING" of the STATES > of the UNION?, since it was the citizens of the Southern States who > "VOTED" to secess from the UNION. > Most of us, TEXCANS refer to it as the "CIVIL WAR", we were taught to do > so.... > Now, Ken , let's hear from you. > Evelyn Crocker > Abilene Texas... > > > Nancie OSullivan said: > > > > Kenneth, why do you prefer to call it 'Civil War > > "? > > > > nancie > > > > > > > > --- Nancie O'Sullivan > > > > --- drayton5@earthlink.net > > > > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > > If you need to unsubscribe send mailto:SCSparta-l-request@rootsweb.com > > with one word in the bottom of the message: unsubscribe We hope you > > will join us again soon. > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > > records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > If you need to unsubscribe send mailto:SCSparta-l-request@rootsweb.com with one word in the bottom of the message: unsubscribe We hope you will join us again soon. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03

No truer words were ever written. Evelyne Don Kelly said: > Civil War is a rather short and more traditional name of that war. > > Newspapers in the south referred to it as The War of Northern > Aggression. > > That was the name used by my relatives in Arkansas....even after 1975. > > Newspapers in the north probably used a different name. > > By any name a half million young lives were snuffed out because Lincoln > and the big manufacturing interests in the north wanted monopolies in > sales of products in and to politically dominate the southern states. > > In those respects slavery had little to do with why the war was started. > > Don > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nancie O'Sullivan" <drayton5@earthlink.net> > To: <SCSPARTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 12:40 AM > Subject: [SCSPARTA] War Between the States > > >> >> Kenneth, why do you prefer to call it 'Civil War >> "? >> >> nancie >> >> >> >> --- Nancie O'Sullivan >> >> --- drayton5@earthlink.net >> >> --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. >> >> >> ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== >> If you need to unsubscribe send mailto:SCSparta-l-request@rootsweb.com > with one word in the bottom of the message: unsubscribe We hope you > will join us again soon. >> >> ============================== >> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: >> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >> > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03 > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > The messages to this list are archived at RootsWeb. You can find past > messages by going to: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index and typing > in: SCSparta. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Nancie; That is a good question, so many of us refer to it as "THE CIVIL WAR". I do because that is the way I was taught, my Histoy teachers and books all referred to it as the "CIVIL WAR". I have a TEXAS History school text book entitled "TEXAS and TEXANS" published in 1987 which refers to it as "THE CIVIL WAR". Could it be because it was a "CIVIL UPRAISING" of the STATES of the UNION?, since it was the citizens of the Southern States who "VOTED" to secess from the UNION. Most of us, TEXCANS refer to it as the "CIVIL WAR", we were taught to do so.... Now, Ken , let's hear from you. Evelyn Crocker Abilene Texas... Nancie OSullivan said: > > Kenneth, why do you prefer to call it 'Civil War > "? > > nancie > > > > --- Nancie O'Sullivan > > --- drayton5@earthlink.net > > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > ==== SCSPARTA Mailing List ==== > If you need to unsubscribe send mailto:SCSparta-l-request@rootsweb.com > with one word in the bottom of the message: unsubscribe We hope you > will join us again soon. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237