Can anyne tell me where Newarthill and Motherwell are/were in 1840's Neither is listed in Lanark OPRs for Lanark. Marion

Hi. I am relatively new to certain aspects of genealogy and find it very interesting about the miners being recruited by United States coal companies. My Moan ancestors originated in County Armagh, Ireland and moved to Scotland where they worked as coal miners in Carnwath and the Lesmahagow, Lanarkshire area for about 15 years and in Slamannan, Stirlingshire for almost 20 years before immigrating to the United States, specifically the Linton area of Greene County, Indiana. Between 1904 and 1910, my great grandparents, 4 of their 5 children plus all the spouses and children immigrated to the U. S. where the sons all found employment as coal miners. I have often wondered why they decided on this one particular town, which only boasted a population of 3,000 at the turn of the century, was to be their new home. Is there any way to find out what coal companies might have done the recruiting and other specifics concerning their possible arrangements with the individual miners? I would appreciate any information available. Thanks! Donna in Maine

I got "Colliers Across the Sea' thru inter-library loan. Alas,it covers a later time period, and recruitment was for Illinois coal mines. Does anyone have a reference or information about recruitment of miners in Lanark in 1840's ? The company or companies involved? My g-g-grandfather, John Carruthers, and I believe his brother-in-law William Gillespie emigrated to U. S. 1848-1849. I arrived at this time frame by birth of last child in Scotland and first child in Pennyslvania.

If you go to the wonderful site that was mentioned a couple of days ago by Bob Bartleson, go to the Newbattle parish records, and it explains in detail why colliers had to move around so much. It was always for work, and yes, they would have lived in mining housing as they couldn't afford anything else. http://edina.ac.uk/cgi/StatAcc/StatAcc.cgi In a message dated 2/18/01 10:59:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > Hi, > > I just located an ancestral family (that of Robert BROWN) in the 1851 census > of Newbattle. He and three of his sons were coal miners (youngest, 12), and > the family was residing at 37 Stobhill. Based on the birthplaces of his > children, the family moved frequently. I've recorded below the birthplaces > and approximate years of birth (based upon ages at time of census) of Robert > and family. I'm hopeful that someone can tell me if there were coal mines in > each of these areas and, if so, what factors may have motivated frequent > moves. Also wondering if 37 Stobhill in Newbattle would have been a house > owned by a mining company. > > Robert, born Liberton, age 47, born c. 1804, coal miner > Janet (wife), born Lasswade, age 46, born c. 1805 > Margaret (dau), born Cockpen, age 19, born c. 1832 > John (son), born Inveresk, age 17, born c. 1834, coal miner > Alexander (son), born Newbattle, age 14, born c. 1837, coal miner > William (son), born Cranston, age 12, born c. 1839, coal miner > Janet (dau), born West Calder, age 9, born c. 1842 > Lawson (dau), born Borthwick, age 7, born c. 1844 > Elspath (dau), born Whitburn, age 5, born c. 1846 > > Thank you for your help. > > Best wishes, > Sue Lister > > >

Hi, I just located an ancestral family (that of Robert BROWN) in the 1851 census of Newbattle. He and three of his sons were coal miners (youngest, 12), and the family was residing at 37 Stobhill. Based on the birthplaces of his children, the family moved frequently. I've recorded below the birthplaces and approximate years of birth (based upon ages at time of census) of Robert and family. I'm hopeful that someone can tell me if there were coal mines in each of these areas and, if so, what factors may have motivated frequent moves. Also wondering if 37 Stobhill in Newbattle would have been a house owned by a mining company. Robert, born Liberton, age 47, born c. 1804, coal miner Janet (wife), born Lasswade, age 46, born c. 1805 Margaret (dau), born Cockpen, age 19, born c. 1832 John (son), born Inveresk, age 17, born c. 1834, coal miner Alexander (son), born Newbattle, age 14, born c. 1837, coal miner William (son), born Cranston, age 12, born c. 1839, coal miner Janet (dau), born West Calder, age 9, born c. 1842 Lawson (dau), born Borthwick, age 7, born c. 1844 Elspath (dau), born Whitburn, age 5, born c. 1846 Thank you for your help. Best wishes, Sue Lister

Hi Folks... I've added a couple of texts to the "Stories" pages at www.mcpitz.com & I'm working on the researchers interests right now. Hopefully I'll be able to get a web hosting service to enable you all to add your own submissions, which will overcome the delay we have at present with me trying to juggle time to get it done. Cheers Jim <==============================<>=============================> A man cannae bear a' his ain kin aboot on his ain back. Genealogy Hamepage: http://homepages.go.com/~seimi/genes.html <===============================================================> <==============================<>================================>

Thanks so much for sharing this great site with us..................Elaine

Hello Listers, I have recently found a site that has late 1700 early 1800 parish descriptions written by church clergy. These include on occasion descriptions of mining activities. Although general in nature, I found them interesting and informative. You have to select the date, county and parish. The site URL is: <http://edina.ac.uk/cgi/StatAcc/StatAcc.cgi > Bob Bartleson San Jose, California

I have just disocvered this list and hope I might be able to share some information on my mining ancestors and find out how to discover more. My greatgrandfathe Thomas Bryden married in Galston in 1860. His occupation is given as coal miner, his father Thomas Bryden (deceased) was also a coal miner. His wife was Barbara Menteith and her father David Menteith (deceased) was a coal miner. I found the two Thomases in a CD of the "Retours of Heirs" - the elder Thomas is described as collier, Kilwinning late of Irvine and the younger Thomas who was about 15 or 16 at the time of his father's death in 1851 was living at Kilwinning. The Menteith family appears to have lived at New Cumnock. After his marriage Thomas stayed in Galston for a year or two before emigrating to New Zealand at the end of 1862. In New Zealand he was a carrier for close to thirty years, however in the 1890's New Zealand was going through a depression and the carrier business would not support his large family, so he took a job as shot firer in a quartz reef gold mine - presumably because of his earlier coal mining experience. He was killed in an explosion after working in the gold mine for about ten months. I have the inquest report which makes quite interesting reading as it gives some details of the layout of the mine etc. I would be interested in hearing of any sources of information on coal mining in the Irvine, Kilwinning, Galston and New Cumnock areas - especially any sources that might give actual names of the miners - as I am having difficulty getting any information on the family prior to the start of civil registration in 1855 Catherine Fitchett Christchurch, New Zealand [email protected]

Eileen I served my apprenticeship as an electrician in the mines at Newtongrange in the 60's (Lingerwood Colliery) . I heard lots of stories of a manager pre WW2 who would walk around the village checking the gardens and hauling in any miner whose garden was not kept tidy. If any miner was nor performing as he should at work he would not hesitate to have the miners wife front up to him in the office and make sure that things were OK in the bedroom. Could this be your Mungo Mackay? It certainly sounds like his style. Gives the term Industrial Relations a new meaning. Do you know where the book may be obtained? ron Soutar Perth W. Australia elnalexjoe wrote: > Mungo Mackay was agent and general manager for the Lothian Coal Company from 1890's right up to nearly the start of World War Two. He wasn't very tolerant of drinking among the miners either! He supposedly struck terror into those working for him. There is an excellent book called - > > Mungo Mackay and the Green Table - Newtongrange Miners Remember > ISBN 1 898410 66 6 > > by Ian MacDougall > > I have no interest in this publication - it is just a very good, informative read for those looking at mining ancestors in this part of Midlothian. > > Eileen > > ==== SCOTTISH-MINING Mailing List ==== > Visit the GENUKI Midlothian website > http://www.btinternet.com/~mmgene/genuki/mln/ > <================================================> > > ============================== > Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate > your heritage! > http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog

Hello Ron, This sounds like the very fellow! The book is full of such anecdotes and I thoroughly enjoyed it and as you know the area I imagine you will enjoy it even more so. It is published by Tuckwell Press in association with Midlothian District Council and was first published in 1995. It is part of a series called "Flashbacks" where ordinary people give their account of their daily lives relating to the subject matter of the book - from mining to "tattie howking". I bought it in a well known book store in Princes Street, Edinburgh but an on-line book store may also stock it. If not Tuckwell Press is at - The Mill House Phantassie East Linton East Lothian EH40 3DG Scotland Hope this helps. Regards, Eileen

Hi Betty, I'm not aware of any disaster in that area, but I'd be most interested to find out more, I'll see what I can discover. Now..regarding Spirit Merchants...& colliers. In Glasgow in 1832 there was a dealer in spirits for every fourteen families, this, in a society that was povert-stricken! In the Coatbridge area in 1845, the management became aware of the reduction in quality of iron in the week after payday, "in consequence of the men not being entirely masters of their own actions", through drink! In the 1870's Scotlands miners enjoyed high wages & consequently a good drink. The iron industry was flat out supplying materiels for the Franco-Prussian war which in turn kept the miners extremely busy. In the New Statistical Account for Liberton it was noted: "There are thirty-two shops for the sale of spirits in this parish, which is just thirty too many... One man is paid for teaching sobriety, but thirty-two have an interest in defeating his efforts, and human nature is on their side." I don't think spirit merchants were wealthy by any standards, it might well have been that their business was run for a silent partner, it was known for coalmasters to run their own alehouses behind a "front"! part of the "truck" system that exploited miners & their families. Regarding brewing or distilling their own drink, certainly not the case for spirits, but I don't know about ale, perhaps someone more knowledgable might comment. Regards Jim Rouse Ps.. I just posted a new "story" at www.mcpitz.com, which throws some light on how the ruling classes viewed the peasants' intemperance :-) <==============================<>=============================> A man cannae bear a' his ain kin aboot on his ain back. Genealogy Hamepage: http://homepages.go.com/~seimi/genes.html <===============================================================> <==============================<>================================>

Mungo Mackay was agent and general manager for the Lothian Coal Company from 1890's right up to nearly the start of World War Two. He wasn't very tolerant of drinking among the miners either! He supposedly struck terror into those working for him. There is an excellent book called - Mungo Mackay and the Green Table - Newtongrange Miners Remember ISBN 1 898410 66 6 by Ian MacDougall I have no interest in this publication - it is just a very good, informative read for those looking at mining ancestors in this part of Midlothian. Eileen

G.father and g.g.father were contractors in the mines around the Hamilton Estate (1900-1927). In their case they were Electrical Contractors, and from what I understand owned and ran electrical conveyor systems that carried the coal through the mines. I, too, will be interested in comments of miners becoming spirit merchants. (I wondered if maybe they brewed the stuff and then sold it?) Robyn Taylor - Waiheke Island, NZ

Hello Betty, Spirit merchant - one of my ancestors was noted as a Spirit Merchant on census returns. A fellow researcher kindly found out he did not own the business. He was just the shop manager who lived above the store. This may have been the case with your Adam. Eileen

Hi I am a new subscriber, I am researching the Lillie/Lilly line in Shotts, Bothwell & Holytown. Adam Lilly born 1840 bothwell was a coalminer he & his sons worked in Holytown, does anyone know what mines were in the area of Holytown? Adam according to family lore was a CONTRACTOR in the mine, does anyone know what this means? Also according to family lore the mine he & his sons worked in was subject to some kind of accident or disaster between 1877 & 1880 something to do with a flood? The story goes that Adam was a very strong swimmer & managed to rescue his sons. Adam & sons left the pits after the accident & Adam became a spirit merchant in Bellshill the sons all found work in other occupations, as Adam had vowed no one of his would ever go down the pit again. I have proof that up to 1877 Adam was coalminer & lived in Holytown[birth certificates of his children] & that in 1880 he was listed as Spirit merchant living in Bellshill. I find this strange as a coalminer in this time would not I would have thought amassed sufficient money to purchase a spirit merchants especially as at this point Adam had 9 children. His father before him was also a coalminer who had 14 children. Anyone got any thoughts on this? Betty Cairns

Hi Jean, I checked out Ian Winstanley's website which has lists of mines & managers at different times throughout the 19th & early 20th century, but to no avail. You can check for yourself at: http://www.cmhrc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ There is another website at http://www.tidza.demon.co.uk/page7.html which lists mines in 1896. I noted your children of John Black, one of them was: "William born 1879, Hugh Balantyre, Lanark" I think this might be an error, & is actually High Blantyre? Best Wishes Jim (from Blantyre!) <==============================<>=============================> A man cannae bear a' his ain kin aboot on his ain back. Genealogy Hamepage: http://homepages.go.com/~seimi/genes.html <===============================================================> <==============================<>================================>

My husband's great grandfather was a coal mining manager in Scotland in 1897. As far as I know he was living in Leith Scotland at the time. His name was John Black born Douglas Lanark 1851. His parents were James Black, Mason and Jane Pate. He married Elizabeth Clelland 26/6/1871 in Leith. Elizabeth was born in Dalry Ayrshire. Children James born 8/5/1872 West Calder Scotland Hugh born 1875 Carluke Lanark William born 1879 Hugh Balantyre Lanark Elizabeth Clelland's father was a ironminer in Dalry Ayrshire. His name was Hugh Clelland born 7/10/1821 Dalry, he died 4/3/1858 Dalry. Hugh married Janet Donaldson 29/5/1847 Dalry. Chidren Elizabeth Clelland born 1850 Dalry Isabella Crawford Clelland born 1850 Dalry William Clelland born 1852 Dalry William Clelland born 1854 Dalry George Clelland born 1857 Dalry All help in collecting information on these families would be appreciated. Jean Black. Brisbane. Australia

Hi All, I've been asked to post this following message, which might be of interest to some of you who had ancestors move across the border to England & vice versa. It's a website covering the North-East of England, & in relation to this list, it covers the English counties of the Great Northern Coalfield, those being County Durham, Northumberland & Yorkshire. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I understand that the NORTHEAST area (UK) may not be an area / subject you cover on your list but many families were always travelling around the world from one port to another and maybe some members on your list may have links here. If we can help one person from your list then this whole project would be well worth the time and effort we are putting into it. The 2 new sections, which will come under the heading "INFORMATION EXCHANGE" will have 2 sub categories:- (1) "FIND A FRIEND OR FAMILY MEMBER" This section is designed to help both members of mailing lists and members of the public. Messages will be posted in the hope of locating a family member or friend who may either, once lived in the Northeast, or hold vital information which would be useful to list members. The difference with this section is that most mailing lists do not allow its members to post messages about living people, although I know many people that have found relatives, family members, and lost cousin's they didn't know they had - through other sites and after much time spent on different sites etc. (2) "LOOKING FOR GENEALOGY INFORMATION" section is designed to help those people who don't have access to a computer but who are interested in Genealogy and will be mostly done through the media. This will help both them and the members of other mailing lists that have an interest in the North East of England. There will be a special fax and answer phone service available. (-- Fax Number 07050 600 878 -- Answer Phone 07050 600 877 where members of the public can contact me and I will arrange for their message to be placed in our special sections on our web site. Our web site address is located at:- http://uk-northeast.com We need your help & cooperation to get this project off to a good start. Thank you for your time Stephen +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The mention of Irish migrants to lowland Scotland has reminded me of one of my missing branches on the family tree. My great great grandfather was JOHN McINERNEY (also spelled McINAIRNEY and McANARNEY) born around 1815 and I suspect he was born in Ireland. In 1842 on Oct 23 he married SARAH MARSHALL (who was from Kilmarnock) at Bothwell. They had four children: Mary Ann born about 1840 in England (born before her parents were married) Matthew born about 1842 at Ballytight, Cromartyshire William born about 1845 in Muirkirk John born about 1848 in Muirkirk (Info on the children is from the census as I can't find them in the OPRs.) Apart from knowing Mary Ann married my great grandfather, John McCrae, I have been unable to unearth anything about the McInairneys. I am assuming John was a coal miner, as Mary Ann married into a coal mining family and the locations of his marriage and the places of the births of his children seem to indicate it. I wonder whether anyone has come across this surname, as finding anyone called this is proving difficult, let alone my particular ancestors. Regards Judy Strachan