Hi Malcolm, I am not sure that "ethnic cleansing" is that far off the mark. The fact of the matter is that Scotland was comprised of two sets of ethic peoples. The Gael Highlander and the Lowlander. They did not understand each other. The prevailing view of the lowlander was that the Highland was referred to as "wild Irishmen" and to some "The only good Highlander was a dead Highlander" After Bonnie Prince Charlie's defeat at Culloden 1746 eradication of the troublesome Highlanders started in earnest. The fact of the matter is that whether clearances were done by: -the absentee chiefs themselves -by English who purchased the land -by English who received land seized after Culloden the goal in most cases was to get rid of the indigenous people. In most cases it was to "improve the land" i.e. make it more profitable. There were other cases where the people were cleared to make room for red deer and or increase grouse cover to improve his lordships hunting. Bottom line was that the goal for many was to get rid of a race of people, "the Gael". One question that I have is why bring in southern shepherds with the sheep. The Highlanders had been herding cattle for hundreds of years. Were sheep too complicated for them? I do not thinks so. Clearance Reading: Great outlines; http://www.celtic-connection.com/lit/clearanc-12-96.html http://members.aol.com/skyewrites/clrchron.html Articles: http://members.aol.com/skyewrites/menu9.html http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Heritage/FSCNS/Scots_NS/Hty_Sct//High_Clr/Mem/High_Clr.html http://www.electricscotland.com/history/sclearstrath.htm Re, Steven Lyday > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > > [SCTCDN] {SCTCDN] Re: Scottish Clearances > From: > > "Malcolm Shaw" <[email protected]> > Date: > > Tue, 14 May 2002 07:38:20 -0600 > To: > > [email protected] > > >Good Morning All; > >To say that the Highland Clearances was "ethnic cleansing" is to put the wrong slant on this despicable event in Scottish history. "Ethnic cleansing" indicates the eradication of one ethnic race by and for the benefit of a different ethnic race. In the case of the Clearances it was a case of Scottish landowners eliminating Scottish peasants - not the same thing really. More likely it was "greed" as well as being a very sad case of "man's inhumanity to man". > >I have a book "The Highland Clearances" by John Prebble, published in 1963. At pages 250 & 264 it refers top Col. John Gordon,(as well as South Uist and Benbecula), as being a ruthless person. This is an excellent book on the subject (if it is still available, the pages of my copy are yellowing) and it is some time since I read it. It is a worthwhile addition to one's library. I would be glad to do look-ups in it if anyone has a question. > >The title page of the book has the quotation "Since you have preferred sheep to men, let sheep defend you". > >Have a good day > >Malcolm Shaw, Calgary, Alberta > >______________________________ >

The Highlanders were certainly discriminated against. Actually, still discriminated against. Even "Monty Python ..." had running gags making fun of people's attitudes. There is no evidence that I've seen, though, that says that there was an ethnic motivation. Look at perhaps the most flagrant example ... Renfrewshire. That was purely a clan chieftain (chieftanesse?) who cleared the whole shire strictly for monetary reasons. I don't think the Highlanders "herded" cattle. Certainly not in the same sense as herding sheep. Some of them did herd sheep when they were introduced. The Lowlanders brought in, though, had the experience and temperament to do the job better. It isn't like the Lowlanders replaced the Highlanders. Where it had take several families to farm a piece of land, it only took one Lowland shepherd to take care of all the sheep on that farm. There is no way the purpose of The Clearances was to replace the Highlanders with Lowlanders. Very few Lowlanders moved in as a result, and most of the Highlanders were left to fend for themselves still in the Highlands. Only a relatively small percentage of those who had been cleared were deported. The rest were left to their own devices, just not on the farms. Bruce > From: Steven Lyday <[email protected]> > Reply-To: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:08:04 -0700 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [SCTCDN] Scottish Clearances > Resent-From: [email protected] > Resent-Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:12:33 -0600 > > Hi Malcolm, > > I am not sure that "ethnic cleansing" is that far off the mark. The > fact of the matter is that Scotland was comprised of two sets of ethic > peoples. The Gael Highlander and the Lowlander. They did not understand > each other. The prevailing view of the lowlander was that the Highland > was referred to as "wild Irishmen" and to some "The only good > Highlander was a dead Highlander" > > After Bonnie Prince Charlie's defeat at Culloden 1746 eradication of the > troublesome Highlanders started in earnest. > > The fact of the matter is that whether clearances were done by: > -the absentee chiefs themselves > -by English who purchased the land > -by English who received land seized after Culloden > > the goal in most cases was to get rid of the indigenous people. > > In most cases it was to "improve the land" i.e. make it more profitable. > There were other cases where the people were cleared to make room for > red deer and or increase grouse cover to improve his lordships hunting. > > Bottom line was that the goal for many was to get rid of a race of > people, "the Gael". One question that I have is why bring in southern > shepherds with the sheep. The Highlanders had been herding cattle for > hundreds of years. Were sheep too complicated for them? I do not > thinks so. > > Clearance Reading: > Great outlines; > http://www.celtic-connection.com/lit/clearanc-12-96.html > http://members.aol.com/skyewrites/clrchron.html > > Articles: > http://members.aol.com/skyewrites/menu9.html > http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Heritage/FSCNS/Scots_NS/Hty_Sct//High_Clr/Mem/High_C > lr.html > http://www.electricscotland.com/history/sclearstrath.htm > > Re, > > Steven Lyday

I thought that the Border Collie had the best temperment for herding sheep. Can anyone say for sure when they were introduced and when ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce K McGill" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [SCTCDN] Scottish Clearances > The Highlanders were certainly discriminated against. Actually, still > discriminated against. Even "Monty Python ..." had running gags making fun > of people's attitudes. > > There is no evidence that I've seen, though, that says that there was an > ethnic motivation. Look at perhaps the most flagrant example ... > Renfrewshire. That was purely a clan chieftain (chieftanesse?) who cleared > the whole shire strictly for monetary reasons. > > I don't think the Highlanders "herded" cattle. Certainly not in the same > sense as herding sheep. Some of them did herd sheep when they were > introduced. The Lowlanders brought in, though, had the experience and > temperament to do the job better. > > It isn't like the Lowlanders replaced the Highlanders. Where it had take > several families to farm a piece of land, it only took one Lowland shepherd > to take care of all the sheep on that farm. > > There is no way the purpose of The Clearances was to replace the Highlanders > with Lowlanders. Very few Lowlanders moved in as a result, and most of the > Highlanders were left to fend for themselves still in the Highlands. > > Only a relatively small percentage of those who had been cleared were > deported. The rest were left to their own devices, just not on the farms. > > Bruce > > > > From: Steven Lyday <[email protected]> > > Reply-To: [email protected] > > Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:08:04 -0700 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [SCTCDN] Scottish Clearances > > Resent-From: [email protected] > > Resent-Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:12:33 -0600 > > > > Hi Malcolm, > > > > I am not sure that "ethnic cleansing" is that far off the mark. The > > fact of the matter is that Scotland was comprised of two sets of ethic > > peoples. The Gael Highlander and the Lowlander. They did not understand > > each other. The prevailing view of the lowlander was that the Highland > > was referred to as "wild Irishmen" and to some "The only good > > Highlander was a dead Highlander" > > > > After Bonnie Prince Charlie's defeat at Culloden 1746 eradication of the > > troublesome Highlanders started in earnest. > > > > The fact of the matter is that whether clearances were done by: > > -the absentee chiefs themselves > > -by English who purchased the land > > -by English who received land seized after Culloden > > > > the goal in most cases was to get rid of the indigenous people. > > > > In most cases it was to "improve the land" i.e. make it more profitable. > > There were other cases where the people were cleared to make room for > > red deer and or increase grouse cover to improve his lordships hunting. > > > > Bottom line was that the goal for many was to get rid of a race of > > people, "the Gael". One question that I have is why bring in southern > > shepherds with the sheep. The Highlanders had been herding cattle for > > hundreds of years. Were sheep too complicated for them? I do not > > thinks so. > > > > Clearance Reading: > > Great outlines; > > http://www.celtic-connection.com/lit/clearanc-12-96.html > > http://members.aol.com/skyewrites/clrchron.html > > > > Articles: > > http://members.aol.com/skyewrites/menu9.html > > http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Heritage/FSCNS/Scots_NS/Hty_Sct//High_Clr/Mem/High _C > > lr.html > > http://www.electricscotland.com/history/sclearstrath.htm > > > > Re, > > > > Steven Lyday > > > ==== SCOTS-IN-CANADA Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe: [email protected] inserting the word unsubscribe in both the subject line and the text area and using a fresh email to do it. Use -D- if you are in Digest mode. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >