Malcolm Out of railway interest, I looked at the map in regards to your query. Having done some searching on maps for places where my family may have lived as they were all station agents, I conclude by looking at the empty space in the streets that the railway has been removed but MAY have run in the space between North and South Front St. This would also match the railway running parallel to Highway 1, which happened quite often in the prairies. Not 100% certain, but would be a good guess. Bob Dickson Mississauga, Ontario I seek dead people!

Greetings All. For those seeking the wording of Bill S-13 -- An Act to amend the Statistics Act, links to the Bill in both official languages, are now on the opening pages of the Post 1901 Census Project website, at the URL following my signature.. The links go to the government website showing the Bill. Clicking on "print format" loads a PDF document for easy printing. Happy Hunting. Gordon A. Watts gordon_watts@telus.net Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee Port Coquitlam, BC http://globalgenealogy.com/Census en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm Permission to forward without notice is granted.

Thanks, I will give it a try. Have a good day Malcolm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shirl Biccum" <shirlbiccum@comcast.net> To: <SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: RE: [SCTCDN] Map of Moosomin Sask > I tried the web sitewww.mapblast.com and got a map of Moosomin which had > the streets labeled, including Front Street,but it didn't show the railway > location. > Shirl in Redmond,Washington > > -----Original Message----- > From: Malcolm Shaw [mailto:shaw@ezpost.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 7:10 AM > To: SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SCTCDN] Map of Moosomin Sask > > Good morning listers; > > Can someone tell me how to find a map of Moosomin Sask on the 'net. I would > like to find the location of Front Street and its relationship to the > railway station. My wife's grandmother operated a rooming/boarding house on > Front Street from 1891 to 1908 approx. This latter information I gleaned > form the 1906 Census. > > Many thanks in advance for your help. > > Malcolm in Calgary, Alberta > > > ==== SCOTS-IN-CANADA Mailing List ==== > UNSUBSCRIBE - send email to - SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L-request@rootsweb.com (D if > Digest Mode) and type unsubscribe in subject line and message box. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go > to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > ==== SCOTS-IN-CANADA Mailing List ==== > UNSUBSCRIBE - send email to - SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L-request@rootsweb.com (D if Digest Mode) and type unsubscribe in subject line and message box. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

I tried the web sitewww.mapblast.com and got a map of Moosomin which had the streets labeled, including Front Street,but it didn't show the railway location. Shirl in Redmond,Washington -----Original Message----- From: Malcolm Shaw [mailto:shaw@ezpost.com] Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 7:10 AM To: SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SCTCDN] Map of Moosomin Sask Good morning listers; Can someone tell me how to find a map of Moosomin Sask on the 'net. I would like to find the location of Front Street and its relationship to the railway station. My wife's grandmother operated a rooming/boarding house on Front Street from 1891 to 1908 approx. This latter information I gleaned form the 1906 Census. Many thanks in advance for your help. Malcolm in Calgary, Alberta ==== SCOTS-IN-CANADA Mailing List ==== UNSUBSCRIBE - send email to - SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L-request@rootsweb.com (D if Digest Mode) and type unsubscribe in subject line and message box. ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Good morning listers; Can someone tell me how to find a map of Moosomin Sask on the 'net. I would like to find the location of Front Street and its relationship to the railway station. My wife's grandmother operated a rooming/boarding house on Front Street from 1891 to 1908 approx. This latter information I gleaned form the 1906 Census. Many thanks in advance for your help. Malcolm in Calgary, Alberta

Greetings all. I have just got off the phone from Jeff Paul in Senator Milne's office. One topic of discussion was the proposed "undertaking" mentioned in Bill S-13. Jeff has been trying to obtain permission to post the "undertaking" on the lists but he has so far been unable to do so. He did, however, read it to me. Other than the fact that I see no need for either the non-disclosure of any information beyond the mandated period of closure (currently 92 years), or for the need of any "undertaking" at all, I did not find it to be onorous or highly restrictive. From my memory of what was read to me, the "undertaking" would be something along the lines of the following: " I _____(name)______ make application for access to records of the __(year)__ Census. I am conducting __(genealogical / historical)___ research. I agree not to disclose, during the period of 92 years to 112 years after collection, any information from these records other than the following: Name, Address, Age (or birthdate), Sex, Marital Status, Origin, and Occupation. I agree not to infringe on any Copyright relating to these records. I am aware of the penalties for violation of this undertaking. Signed ___________________ Date _______________ " Do not hold me to the exact wording, but this is the jist of what the "undertaking" would be. There would also be a very minor form specifying permission for someone to do research on behalf of another person. While the so-called "compromise solution" of Ivan Fellegi defined "family" very narrowly as "a direct descendant of a direct ancestor", there is no such definition attached to Bill S-13. In a Legislative Summary available to MPs and Senators there are a number of questions and answers relating to the Census issue and Bill S-13. One of those questions relates to a definition of 'family' for purposes of research. The answer was that 'family' would include anyone connected by blood, marriage, or adoption. That pretty well covers every possibility. There have been many concerns expressed on the lists regarding what the "undertaking" would entail. I hope that this information helps to relieve any anxieties regarding it. Happy Hunting. Gordon A. Watts gordon_watts@telus.net Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee Port Coquitlam, BC http://globalgenealogy.com/Census en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm

Greetings All. Forwarded FYI Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judith Rempel" <rempel@jrsolutions.net> To: <gordon_watts@telus.net> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 7:49 AM Subject: 1906 census transcription efforts Gordon - I wouldn't be surprised if you were watching with some interest how our progress is going - the 1906 census transcription. 1906 Census Transcription Centre http://www.afhs.ab.ca/data/census/1906/ At this point, just 2 weeks into the data, we have over 200 pp of transcriptions online. The majority are housed on the AFHS website, but a few have elected to house their transcriptions on society or genweb sites. That's certainly okay with us - we can provide links to those efforts and still provide a good general site that provides reasonable access to the images and the transcriptions. I'd be most pleased if in your website/communications you'd invite the public to let us know (webster@afhs.ab.ca) about transcriptions that they are publishing (online or in paper), are planning to transcribe (to minimize duplication), or would like to have us publish online for them. Folks do not need to be a member of the AFHS for any of these courtesies to be extended. Our motivation is to provide an easy-to-use environment where images and transcriptions can be accessed (and searched more easily) and to do so with a minimum of duplicated effort. Note - for technical reasaons, our little 1906 search tool (on the above url) will not be able to search transcriptions published outside of the AFHS website. As the transcription efforts continue, we certainly will consider compiling an every-name index to the 1906. But, that will have to wait until subdistricts and districts are completed. At this time, over 200 pp have been transcribed/placed online and on average about 20+ are going on line daily. This means 1.1% of the task is complete. Another important caveat. Because of the difficulty of reading the names on the images, the great diversity of cultures/names represented on the images, we cannot assure that transcriptions of names are accurate (or that the enumerators accurately documented such names either). For good or for ill, we have opted to simply proceed with a mass transcription effort at this time - with no proofreading project planned. This is a limitation, we know. But, to be effective proofreaders we'd likely need to line up 3 culturally-specific persons to transcribe, proof & eliminate disagreements about what is actually on the image. Instead, we hope that visitors will be creative in their searches on our site (and the archives images site), and know that any transcription or index is just a finding aid; original documents/facsimiles should always be consulted. Thanks! -- In Kinship, Judith Rempel, Webster rempel@jrsolutions.net and webster@afhs.ab.ca Alberta Family Histories Society http://www.afhs.ab.ca 1906 Census Transcription Centre http://www.afhs.ab.ca/data/census/1906/ Canadian Genealogical Projects Register http://www.afhs.ab.ca/registry/

Greetings All. Forwarded from the Office of Senator Lorna Milne. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul, Jeff: SEN" <PAULJ@SEN.PARL.GC.CA> To: <CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 7:29 AM Subject: [CCC] Indexing censuses Hey there gang: Senator Milne wants me to ask everyone a question about indexing census returns. We would like to know exactly what information people index, and the ways that the index is used. In fact we need more general detail on these kind of projects. We want to ensure that there is a place for that kind of work under S-13. If any of you who do this kind of work could get back to us we would greatly appreciate it. Jeff Paul Policy Advisor Office of the Hon. Lorna Milne

All I can tell you is that two other people are searching the same line and the daughter, Mary, married a man that was born in St. Madeline,Rigaud,Quebec,Canada. It might be a lead. Try contacting one of the people researching them.... here are the links to their data. http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=gregorydonaldson&id=I72964537 http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:1615199&id=I72964537 ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin Weinhold To: SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [SCTCDN] Martin or Marshall Family in Montreal Sherry - Thanks for the info. It sounds like the right family but didn't provide any sources and a few names and dates are different. What I'm really trying to determine is what part of Canada the family came from. I'll keep searching! Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sherry" <s.p.tripp@sympatico.ca> To: <SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [SCTCDN] Martin or Marshall Family in Montreal > The LDS site lists a Lewis Marshall born in Canada about 1815 and wife Christina McDonald born in Canada about 1819. They have a bunch of children listed with them including Joseph, Andrew, Paulus, Napoleon and Catherine born in New York and Josephine, Clara Mary, and Mary Catherine born in Canada. This is the one listed as their oldest child though. > Clarissa Marshall born about 1836 in Brushton, USA, died 1937. > Couldn't really look for the Martin family as you only gave one name and nothing to cross reference with. > > > ==== SCOTS-IN-CANADA Mailing List ==== > UNSUBSCRIBE - send email to - SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L-request@rootsweb.com (D if Digest Mode) and type unsubscribe in subject line and message box. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > ==== SCOTS-IN-CANADA Mailing List ==== UNSUBSCRIBE - send email to - SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L-request@rootsweb.com (D if Digest Mode) and type unsubscribe in subject line and message box. ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

If you need me to look up any other Canadian addresses let me know and I will try to help you. If any of my address are not correct - let me know and I will check it out. I am almost sure the Cathedral you mentioned would be Christ Church Cathedral. I worked on the extracting the information for the Quebec Family History. Many, many names from U.S. (the New England states). Marilyn ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin Weinhold <robinw@bealenet.com> To: <SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [SCTCDN] Martin or Marshall Family in Montreal > Marilyn - Thank you - I'll try writing to the organizations you mentioned. > > Robin > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marilyn Haggart" <mhaggart@total.net> > To: <SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 7:37 PM > Subject: Re: [SCTCDN] Martin or Marshall Family in Montreal > > > > Hi Robin: > > Hope the following may be of some help. > > > > Quebec Family History Society, > > 173 A Cartier Ave, > > Suite 3, Pointe Claire Quebec > > > > American Canadian Genealogy > > P.O. Box 668, > > Manchester, N.H. 03105 > > > > I was a member of Quebec Family History Society ages ago, I think they are > > still at that address. > > > > I think they have lots of date relating to Montreal/American data. I know > > they did do a listing of all marriages in Christ Church Cathedral. At one > > time (don't has me the dates) there was not a border. They went freely > back > > and forth between Montreal and U.S. > > > > Hope this will help you a little. > > > > Marilyn > > Montreal, Quebec > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Robin Weinhold <robinw@bealenet.com> > > To: <SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:32 PM > > Subject: [SCTCDN] Martin or Marshall Family in Montreal > > > > > > > Searching for parents of Frank (Francis) Martin (possibly McMartin) born > > about 1840 in NY. Census info indicates his parents were born in Canada. > My > > mother's recollections indicate her grandmother, Frank Martin's daughter, > > told her the family once owned the land the city of Montreal was > established > > on. She was taken to a cathedral in Montreal on several occasions so I > would > > assume a connection to the Catholic Religion. Frank Martin lived most of > his > > life in Franklin Co. NY but I haven't been able to find any reference to > his > > parents. > > > > > > The other possibility is that the family referred to by my g-grandmother > > would have been from her mother's side. Clarissa (Clarissee, Clarisey) > > Marshall born in NY about 1837 to Joseph Marshall (Marchal) born in Canada > > about 1810 and Christie McDonald. Both Joseph and Christie's parents were > > born in Canada. Joseph's father's name was Antoine Marshall. > > > > > > I'm new to Canadian research/history so any info that will point me in > the > > right direction would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > Robin Weinhold > > > > > > > > > ==== SCOTS-IN-CANADA Mailing List ==== > > > UNSUBSCRIBE - send email to - SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L-request@rootsweb.com (D > if > > Digest Mode) and type unsubscribe in subject line and message box. > > > > > > ============================== > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, > > go to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > ==== SCOTS-IN-CANADA Mailing List ==== > > UNSUBSCRIBE - send email to - SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L-request@rootsweb.com (D if > Digest Mode) and type unsubscribe in subject line and message box. > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > ==== SCOTS-IN-CANADA Mailing List ==== > UNSUBSCRIBE - send email to - SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L-request@rootsweb.com (D if Digest Mode) and type unsubscribe in subject line and message box. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Marilyn - Thank you - I'll try writing to the organizations you mentioned. Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marilyn Haggart" <mhaggart@total.net> To: <SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [SCTCDN] Martin or Marshall Family in Montreal > Hi Robin: > Hope the following may be of some help. > > Quebec Family History Society, > 173 A Cartier Ave, > Suite 3, Pointe Claire Quebec > > American Canadian Genealogy > P.O. Box 668, > Manchester, N.H. 03105 > > I was a member of Quebec Family History Society ages ago, I think they are > still at that address. > > I think they have lots of date relating to Montreal/American data. I know > they did do a listing of all marriages in Christ Church Cathedral. At one > time (don't has me the dates) there was not a border. They went freely back > and forth between Montreal and U.S. > > Hope this will help you a little. > > Marilyn > Montreal, Quebec > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robin Weinhold <robinw@bealenet.com> > To: <SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:32 PM > Subject: [SCTCDN] Martin or Marshall Family in Montreal > > > > Searching for parents of Frank (Francis) Martin (possibly McMartin) born > about 1840 in NY. Census info indicates his parents were born in Canada. My > mother's recollections indicate her grandmother, Frank Martin's daughter, > told her the family once owned the land the city of Montreal was established > on. She was taken to a cathedral in Montreal on several occasions so I would > assume a connection to the Catholic Religion. Frank Martin lived most of his > life in Franklin Co. NY but I haven't been able to find any reference to his > parents. > > > > The other possibility is that the family referred to by my g-grandmother > would have been from her mother's side. Clarissa (Clarissee, Clarisey) > Marshall born in NY about 1837 to Joseph Marshall (Marchal) born in Canada > about 1810 and Christie McDonald. Both Joseph and Christie's parents were > born in Canada. Joseph's father's name was Antoine Marshall. > > > > I'm new to Canadian research/history so any info that will point me in the > right direction would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Robin Weinhold > > > > > > ==== SCOTS-IN-CANADA Mailing List ==== > > UNSUBSCRIBE - send email to - SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L-request@rootsweb.com (D if > Digest Mode) and type unsubscribe in subject line and message box. > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== SCOTS-IN-CANADA Mailing List ==== > UNSUBSCRIBE - send email to - SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L-request@rootsweb.com (D if Digest Mode) and type unsubscribe in subject line and message box. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >

Sherry - Thanks for the info. It sounds like the right family but didn't provide any sources and a few names and dates are different. What I'm really trying to determine is what part of Canada the family came from. I'll keep searching! Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sherry" <s.p.tripp@sympatico.ca> To: <SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [SCTCDN] Martin or Marshall Family in Montreal > The LDS site lists a Lewis Marshall born in Canada about 1815 and wife Christina McDonald born in Canada about 1819. They have a bunch of children listed with them including Joseph, Andrew, Paulus, Napoleon and Catherine born in New York and Josephine, Clara Mary, and Mary Catherine born in Canada. This is the one listed as their oldest child though. > Clarissa Marshall born about 1836 in Brushton, USA, died 1937. > Couldn't really look for the Martin family as you only gave one name and nothing to cross reference with. > > > ==== SCOTS-IN-CANADA Mailing List ==== > UNSUBSCRIBE - send email to - SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L-request@rootsweb.com (D if Digest Mode) and type unsubscribe in subject line and message box. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >

To List Many tks Joanne McLean and Sherry re Census 1881 and details. will check familysearch, when I can get through to them showing error on page for me lately. Myra --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 27/01/03

----- Original Message ----- From: Marilyn Haggart <mhaggart@total.net> To: <SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [SCTCDN] Martin or Marshall Family in Montreal > Hi Robin: > Hope the following may be of some help. > > Quebec Family History Society, > 173 A Cartier Ave, > Suite 3, Pointe Claire Quebec > > American Canadian Genealogy > P.O. Box 668, > Manchester, N.H. 03105 > > I was a member of Quebec Family History Society ages ago, I think they are > still at that address. > > I think they have lots of date relating to Montreal/American data. I know > they did do a listing of all marriages in Christ Church Cathedral. At one > time (don't has me the dates) there was not a border. They went freely back > and forth between Montreal and U.S. > > Hope this will help you a little. > > Marilyn > Montreal, Quebec > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robin Weinhold <robinw@bealenet.com> > To: <SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:32 PM > Subject: [SCTCDN] Martin or Marshall Family in Montreal > > > > Searching for parents of Frank (Francis) Martin (possibly McMartin) born > about 1840 in NY. Census info indicates his parents were born in Canada. My > mother's recollections indicate her grandmother, Frank Martin's daughter, > told her the family once owned the land the city of Montreal was established > on. She was taken to a cathedral in Montreal on several occasions so I would > assume a connection to the Catholic Religion. Frank Martin lived most of his > life in Franklin Co. NY but I haven't been able to find any reference to his > parents. > > > > The other possibility is that the family referred to by my g-grandmother > would have been from her mother's side. Clarissa (Clarissee, Clarisey) > Marshall born in NY about 1837 to Joseph Marshall (Marchal) born in Canada > about 1810 and Christie McDonald. Both Joseph and Christie's parents were > born in Canada. Joseph's father's name was Antoine Marshall. > > > > I'm new to Canadian research/history so any info that will point me in the > right direction would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Robin Weinhold > > > > > > ==== SCOTS-IN-CANADA Mailing List ==== > > UNSUBSCRIBE - send email to - SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L-request@rootsweb.com (D if > Digest Mode) and type unsubscribe in subject line and message box. > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== SCOTS-IN-CANADA Mailing List ==== > UNSUBSCRIBE - send email to - SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L-request@rootsweb.com (D if Digest Mode) and type unsubscribe in subject line and message box. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Hi Robin: Hope the following may be of some help. Quebec Family History Society, 173 A Cartier Ave, Suite 3, Pointe Claire Quebec American Canadian Genealogy P.O. Box 668, Manchester, N.H. 03105 I was a member of Quebec Family History Society ages ago, I think they are still at that address. I think they have lots of date relating to Montreal/American data. I know they did do a listing of all marriages in Christ Church Cathedral. At one time (don't has me the dates) there was not a border. They went freely back and forth between Montreal and U.S. Hope this will help you a little. Marilyn Montreal, Quebec ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin Weinhold <robinw@bealenet.com> To: <SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:32 PM Subject: [SCTCDN] Martin or Marshall Family in Montreal > Searching for parents of Frank (Francis) Martin (possibly McMartin) born about 1840 in NY. Census info indicates his parents were born in Canada. My mother's recollections indicate her grandmother, Frank Martin's daughter, told her the family once owned the land the city of Montreal was established on. She was taken to a cathedral in Montreal on several occasions so I would assume a connection to the Catholic Religion. Frank Martin lived most of his life in Franklin Co. NY but I haven't been able to find any reference to his parents. > > The other possibility is that the family referred to by my g-grandmother would have been from her mother's side. Clarissa (Clarissee, Clarisey) Marshall born in NY about 1837 to Joseph Marshall (Marchal) born in Canada about 1810 and Christie McDonald. Both Joseph and Christie's parents were born in Canada. Joseph's father's name was Antoine Marshall. > > I'm new to Canadian research/history so any info that will point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. > > Robin Weinhold > > > ==== SCOTS-IN-CANADA Mailing List ==== > UNSUBSCRIBE - send email to - SCOTS-IN-CANADA-L-request@rootsweb.com (D if Digest Mode) and type unsubscribe in subject line and message box. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Greetings All. Forwarded from the office of Senator Lorna Milne. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul, Jeff: SEN" <PAULJ@SEN.PARL.GC.CA> To: <CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:03 PM Subject: [CCC] Second reading of Bill S-13 Good afternoon gang! I am very pleased and proud to tell all of you that Bill S-13 passed second reading unanimously. Hearings will proceed very quickly, and I will keep you posted on the dates and schedule. For all those who are interested, Senator Milne's second reading speech on the bill follows. Yours truly, Jeff Paul Policy Advisor Office of the Hon. Lorna Milne ===================== SECOND READING SPEECH S-13 AN ACT TO AMEND THE STATISTICS ACT Honourable Senators I am extremely proud to begin this afternoon by uttering the one sentence that I have been waiting five long years to say. I rise, Honourable Senators, to speak on Second Reading as the sponsor of a Government Bill that will allow for the release of historic census records. As all but our newest contingent of Senators are well aware, for the last five years I have been fighting an uphill battle with Statistics Canada to allow for the release of the nominal census records for Canada's historic censuses. It is a battle that I certainly did not seek out. On February 19th of last year I told this place that this issue: "deserves the leadership and the attention of the government. There is nothing I would like more than to have the government announce that it will take the necessary steps to balance the interests of all concerned. I still hope that this issue will be taken out of my hands". Over the course of my speech on that day I was particularly harsh with Dr. Ivan Fellegi - maybe overly harsh as Sen. Murray pointed out at the time. Today, however, the Chief Statistician, the Minister of Industry, and I all agree that this bill strikes an effective balance between all kinds of competing interests. It does so by providing a framework that allows wide ranging research by historians, genealogists and others. It also specifically protects people's privacy in a number of ways. In addition, the bill clears the way for all Canadians to make an active and informed decision on whether or not to include themselves in Canadian history in the future. I am confident that we will all be there. I will start, then, by outlining for our new colleagues what all of the fuss has been about over the last five years. I will move on to give you a quick update on what steps the government has already taken to release historic census information. I will provide Honourable Senators with all of the information they need to know about the bill, and then I will make my pitch for the support of this bill by each and every one of us. For hundreds of years Canadians have been using nominal census records, some dating as far back as 1666, to trace and research Canadian history. Up to 1993 the Canadian government had always made 92-year-old census records available to the public through the National Archives. The pre-confederation censuses of 1851 and 1861, and the national censuses of 1871, 1881, 1891, and 1901 have been an invaluable resource for Canadian historians, genealogists, and medical researchers who have all found them to be the only primary source of information on Canadians in their family groups. In 1998, as we approached the 92nd anniversary of the 1906 special Western Census, Statistics Canada was preparing to release the census when it hit a snag. The regulations had exactly the same confidentiality and disclosure regulations as all previous regulations, but in 1905 the government had passed a bill specifically giving these regulations the force of law. The regulations did make certain references to confidentiality, and they prevented the census takers of the time from disclosing any information that they collected in the course of their duties. As a result of legal advice, Statistics Canada erred on the side of caution and announced that it would not release the 1906 census as planned. This upset historians and genealogists greatly. They did agree that census takers were not allowed to go up and down the road gossiping about their neighbours. In fact, no genealogist or historian doubts that contemporary confidentiality was then and is now essential. They were adamant, however, that a different section in the same regulations was equally, if not more important. That section specifically stated that the nominal census returns would be stored "in the Archives of the Dominion". My response was fairly straightforward. I thought that this was a simple oversight that would be perfect for a private Senators' bill. Little did I know that I would have to introduce that same bill twice and wait 5 years before getting to this day. I worked closely with the genealogical and historical communities who collected petitions and pounded out emails to Senators and to the other place to encourage government action. The progress was slow but steady. Over the course of the battle I presented petitions with over 26,000 signatures to the Senate, all calling for action on this very important part of Canadian history. While I was working in the grassroots, the government was doing its own homework on the issue. In order to try to find a way out of the legal logjam, the Minister of Industry at the time - John Manley, appointed an Expert Panel to study the issue and report back to him. The conclusions of the Expert Panel were fairly straightforward. The panel, led by former Senator Lorna Marsden, and former Supreme Court Justice Gerard LaForest, found that there was no legal impediment to the release of census records created prior to 1918. In 1918, however, the Statistics Act was amended to include the same confidentiality provisions as had been contained in the earlier regulations governing the 1906 through 1916 censuses. Although there was no mention of the National Archives in the 1918 Act itself, the regulations governing the 1921 and all subsequent censuses - which had, and have the force of law - all made specific reference to the fact that the nominal census returns would be turned over to "the Archives of the Dominion". The Expert Panel concluded that the placing of this reference in the regulations rather than the bill, was not a specific policy choice, but an oversight. The panel recommended that "for greater certainty" the Statistics Act be amended to allow for the release of post 1918 census records. Although the Report of the Expert panel cleared things up in the minds of many people, it was still not sufficient to deal with the qualms harboured by Statistics Canada. Legal niceties notwithstanding, the Chief Statistician was genuinely concerned that Stats Canada would take a hit to its reputation if it were seen to go back on its word. In my own personal opinion, the reputation of Statistics Canada is worth fighting for. Stats Can is a world leader in statistics methodology and integrity. It is seen as a model around the world. It relies on that reputation in the international community, and indeed within Canada, when it asks for highly sensitive and private information from business, industry, government and individuals. It became necessary to ensure that decisions concerning the release of historic census records would not affect the broader present day or future operations of Statistics Canada. In November 2001 Statistics Canada announced further public consultations by way of focus groups and town hall meetings. The goal was to measure the reaction that Canadians would have to the release of census records. After a lot of study, and hundreds of submissions, Statistics Canada was able to conclude sometime this past summer that post 1901 censuses could be released. All that had to be worked out were the details. It took another 7 months to hammer out those details. I must admit to all Honourable Senators that at times I was part and parcel of that delay. There were certain things that I felt had to get done, and the Minister of Industry agreed with me that we would not proceed until some conditions had been met. I am thrilled to tell you that the details have been worked out, much has been accomplished, and we are now able to move forward. At this time I want to take a moment to recognize the valuable input of one particular Senator at just the right time. On March 7, 2002 Senator Murray spoke on my bill and implored everyone to reach a consensus. He appealed to the Senate to continue to work to find a compromise that would accommodate all of the different perspectives. I took many of his comments to heart, and I hope that he will be able to support this solution. It is precisely the type of compromise he suggested almost a year ago. Let me turn now to what the government has already done to open up the historic census records to researchers. On Friday January 24, the government released the entire 1906 census online and without restriction. Although Stats Can felt there may be some ambiguity in the law governing the 1906 census, the government agreed that there was no longer any need to withhold it. Ninety-seven years were long enough to deal with any privacy concerns. Since the 1906 census was only an agricultural census of three provinces, it contained information that was not highly intrusive. Also, since it was the first census taken of Alberta and Saskatchewan and therefore the government agreed, as part of the compromise solution, that the 1906 census would be released immediately. What has been the response of the public you might ask? I'll let the numbers tell the story. The government put the 1906 census on line on January 24th. In the first 12 days that the census was online, the site received 4, 870,569 hits. You may also want to know how widespread the access was. We can learn that, from the number of internet service providers that accessed the site. Sympatico is one service provider with millions of subscribers; the Senate is also a service provider, as is AOL and Rogers cable. If every one of the millions of people who use those four internet service providers accessed the historic census, the National Archives would have recorded only four "visits". On average, in the first 10 days that the 1906 census was on line, the Archives averaged 3,972 visits per day by servers. Not only is a lot of research being done, but clearly that huge number of servers must come from all corners of the globe. As an aside, Honourable Senators may not be aware that the 1901 census has been on line since June of last year. In the first 7 months that the 1901 census was on line (June to December) the National Archives received a staggering 51,704,325 hits. There is absolutely no doubt that this census information is vitally important to Canadians, and indeed to people around the world. Between the 1901 and 1906 censuses there are over one half of a million hits per day. That is truly remarkable. You may be asking what is the downside to all of this? Are there any problems? Well, after more than 56 million hits to the National Archives website, the exact number of complaints about the service lodged with the National Archives is ZERO. This speaks volumes about the value of this service, and the importance that Canadians place on their history. I will now turn to the bill itself, as it is the second and most significant part of the compromise solution. The government has introduced this bill to govern the release of all censuses that have taken place in the past, and all censuses to be taken in the future. I believe, Honourable Senators, that you will find this framework both well balanced, and fair. Honourable Senators, as this is quite a short bill, I want to take the time to walk you through it step by step so we all understand exactly what the bill does. The bulk of this bill adds to section 17 of the Statistics Act which governs secrecy at Statistics Canada. The entire scheme that will govern the release of historic census records is set out in clause 1 of the bill which adds new sections 17(4) through 17(10) to the Statistics Act. Clause 2 of the bill then adds section 17.1 which gives the governor in council certain regulatory powers that I will outline later. Finally in clause 3 the bill includes a penalty provision that applies solely to the disclosure of census information. Sections 17(4) to 17(7) govern the release of nominal census records from censuses taken from 1911 to the present. Section 17(4) gives genealogists and historians express but conditional permission to examine census records 92 years after the date of the census. The condition is that genealogists must sign an undertaking that will limit the information he or she can disclose. Historians must sign a similar undertaking as well, and they must also have their research proposal approved by an acceptable authority. Under section 17(5) those people who have the right to approve access to the census must assess the public and scientific value of the research before allowing it to go forward. Section 17(6) goes on to specifically note that everyone who signs an undertaking under 17(4) must comply with the undertaking. Finally, section 17(7) states that everyone may freely examine and disclose census records 112 years after the date of the census: that is, completely without restrictions. There are a few key details to note from sections 17(4) through 17(7). These sections do NOT limit which parts of the nominal census returns a person can look at or copy. It is the government's intention that the undertaking that genealogists and historians sign will limit the information that they can disclose to others to "tombstone information" including name, address, age, date of birth (where available), sex, marital status, origin, and occupation. This limitation on publication will last for 20 years. When that 20 years is up, 112 years after the date of the census, there will no longer be any limitations on what can be published or who can access census material. Section 17(8) governs the release of census material from censuses in the future. The next census is scheduled for 2006. Section 17(8) limits the census data that can be examined to the returns of those people who consent to having their information released to the National Archives. In other words, on future census forms Canadians will be asked to give their prior informed consent to having their census return stored in the National Archives. If a person withholds consent, their information shall forever remain private. These future census returns will ALL be available 92 years after the date of the census. No two step procedure is required for these census returns because each person will have already given their informed consent on the issue. Section 17(9) specifically allows those who examine the nominal census returns to publish the information that they find there. This will, of course, be limited by the undertaking that genealogists must sign for the period 92 to 112 years after each historical census. Section 17(10) orders Statistics Canada to transfer the individual census returns to the National Archivist 92 years after each census date. The National Archivist will then become responsible for regulating access to the records. This is most important! Once the scheme for releasing historic census records is laid out in section 17.1, the act goes on to set out the regulatory powers of the Governor in Council in relation to the scheme in section 17. Clause 2, which creates section 17.1, allows the Governor in Council to make regulations: (A) prescribing the form and content of the undertaking that must be signed by genealogists and historians; and (B) prescribing the categories of people that can approve a historian's research These regulations must be made on the recommendation of BOTH the Minister of Industry (who is responsible for Statistics Canada), and the Minister of Canadian Heritage (who is responsible for the National Archives). Finally, in clause 3 the bill adds a section to the penalty provisions of the Statistics Act that states that any person who breaches an undertaking under section 17(6) will be guilty of an offence and liable for a fine of up to $1,000. This penalty is less substantial than those in the rest of the Statistics Act. There is no possibility of jail time or a criminal record for an offence relating to the disclosure of historic census records. Honourable Senators, that gives you a solid foundation in the nuts and bolts of the bill. I want to spend some time now helping you all understand the various policy trade offs that have been made in this bill. I want you to understand what steps are being taken to protect privacy, and I want you to understand why it is so very important that this bill be passed. When this whole debate started 5 years ago, genealogists and historians were very bluntly told that there would be no further access to historic census records ever. The door was to be slammed shut, we were told, in order to protect privacy. In releasing the 1906 census and in introducing this bill, the government has made the ultimate concession. They have agreed that census records should generally be available with an absolute minimum of restrictions. In fact, under this scheme, 100% of past census records will be available for unrestricted research at some point in time - in 112 years. That concession alone is more than enough to warrant my support of this bill. The government has seen the historic value of census records, and has decided to open the vault. Access to history will not be compromised. I turn now, then, to the limits that are being placed on access under this bill. I have struggled long and hard over what is set out here, and I have come to the conclusion that the temporary limits are justified. One simply can not ignore the fact that in 1918 the Federal Government wrote privacy provisions into the Statistics Act. Nor can we ignore the fact that all of the regulations governing the 1911 and 1916 census had the force of law. Those regulations mentioned both release to the Archives of the Dominion, and the need for privacy. Privacy rights are real rights and it would be totally improper for the Federal Government to disregard them. One of the fundamental truisms of privacy law is that all information loses its sensitivity as time passes. Privacy theorists argue that one of the ways that you can resolve privacy issues is to let additional time pass in order for documents to lose more sensitivity. The censuses from 1851 through 1901 were all governed under a set of laws that were different than those taken after 1901. It stands to reason that because of the perceived lack of clarity in the legislation, the 1911 and subsequent censuses could be deemed more sensitive on their 92nd birthday than earlier censuses. To cure this sensitivity, the censuses will be released but some information will still be unpublishable after 92 years, and all information will be released, completely free of restrictions, after 112 years. I want to take this opportunity to assure any genealogists and historians that may be listening or reading Hansard later, that the undertaking that is being proposed is nothing to be concerned about. The government does not want to make it difficult to conduct historical and genealogical research. I have been told that the forms will be short, simple, and easy to understand. More importantly, I have been given the personal assurance from the National Archivist that any requirements that the waiver has, will not prevent the historic census records from being accessible through the National Archives website or through local libraries that will have both the microfilm, and the ability to collect signed undertakings. At the same time, it is Statistics Canada's position that the use of the waiver will sufficiently protect any privacy interests that arise from the release of the records. The principles governing the release of future censuses are, I believe, equally sound. Starting with the next census is 2006, Canadians will have the opportunity to decide for themselves whether or not their census returns will be turned over to the National Archives. If they decide they don't want their information to be made public, it will not be disclosed. Many genealogists and historians won't be happy with this measure, but I must stress that census information, particularly the information now asked for on the long form, is intensely personal. As such, each individual should have a great deal of control over how it is used. The principle of prior informed consent is the best way to handle the situation. Some have expressed the concern that if people are given the opportunity to opt out of the disclosure to the National Archives, serious damage will be done to the integrity and statistical validity of the historic record. I hope these worries will prove to be unfounded. Let me share a key piece of information with Honourable Senators. When Statistics Canada conducted the Canadian Communities Health Survey, it asked Canadians if they would be willing to release their health information to local authorities to increase the quality of health care in their community. Personal health issues are extremely sensitive, but over 95% answered that they would be willing to do so. That is a truly astonishing response rate and it bodes exceptionally well for the release of historic census records. Honourable Senators, this is a solid bill, and is a good compromise. It achieves the goal of historians and genealogists of gaining access to historic census records and of properly preserving them. It provides adequate safeguards for privacy that are entirely appropriate. It is a bill that strikes the balance that I have been seeking for a very long time. I am proud that the government, and in particular Minister Allan Rock, took the bold step of releasing the 1906 census. I am also proud that they cared enough to preserve and protect Canadian history, and Canadians' privacy for generations to come. I urge all of you to support this bill. Thank you.

The LDS site lists a Lewis Marshall born in Canada about 1815 and wife Christina McDonald born in Canada about 1819. They have a bunch of children listed with them including Joseph, Andrew, Paulus, Napoleon and Catherine born in New York and Josephine, Clara Mary, and Mary Catherine born in Canada. This is the one listed as their oldest child though. Clarissa Marshall born about 1836 in Brushton, USA, died 1937. Couldn't really look for the Martin family as you only gave one name and nothing to cross reference with.

Greetings All. I have just received a call from Jeff Paul in Senator Milnes office.. Senators Lorna Milne and Lowell Murray both spoke on Bill S-13 in Second Reading in the Senate today. The surprize of the day is that Senator Murray apparently spoke in support of the Bill, saying that it was a reasonable compromise. The Bill received UNANIMOUS support for Second Reading and has been referred to the Senate Standing Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology. The first meeting of the Committee to deal with S-13 could be as early as Thursday. It is expected to take more than one meeting. If it is your intention to make a submission to the Committee, now is the time to do so. In preparing your submission please keep in mind my comments of previous messages, and the posting today by Jeff Paul. Submissions should be sent to The Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology The Senate, Ottawa Ontario, Canada, K1A 0A4 Attn: Lyn Gravelle, Committee Clerk The email address is soc-aff-soc@sen.parl.gc.ca Please copy your submissions to Senator Milne. Jeff Paul is currently preparing to post Senator Milnes speech of today to the CCC list. Happy Hunting Gordon A. Watts gordon_watts@telus.net Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee Port Coquitlam, BC http://globalgenealogy.com/Census en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm

Forwarded on behalf of Senator Lorna Milne's office. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul, Jeff: SEN" <PAULJ@SEN.PARL.GC.CA> To: <CANADA-CENSUS-CAMPAIGN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 9:01 AM Subject: [CCC] A little time and a little trust Greetings to the list: Well everyone, Senator Milne and I were hoping that it would not come to this, but unfortunately we are going to have to put an awful lot in jeopardy to deal with the concerns of everyone here. The fact of the matter is that Senator Milne has been working furiously behind the scenes for 2 months on each and every one of the issues that have been raised by everyone. The problem all along has been that she was asked to sponser the bill. That is a double edged sword that we were by and large willing to deal with. On the one hand it gives us complete control of how the bill is managed through the Senate. On the other hand, it forces us to look like we support the government position until a new concensus "emerges" that allows everyone to save face. It allowed us to do our work without looking aggressive and without beating up our opponents with big sticks. My dad always taught me to be a good and classy winner, and we had intended to do so. However, in all good conscience to all of those who genuinely care, and to the many thousands of you who have been supportive of us, we have to speak out about what is being said on the listserve. Last week we asked for some time and some trust and asked for constructive support. Unfortunately this is too emotional an issue for some. Senator Milne knows what I am about to write, and she has one message to everyone. Spilling the beans right now jeopardizes our chances for 100% success over the next two months. However, the conspiracy theories that are being suggested by many people out there simply are not true, and left unto themselves they will do substantial damage to the bill. They have no basis in fact. This is the biggest file of Senator Milne's career as a Senator. She is not going to abandon it and is not going to settle for a half of a loaf. Let me be specific. THIS BILL WILL BE AMENDED. Senator Milne has lined up other Senators to introduce the amendments so she can maintain her spot as the sponsoring sentoar. Senator Milne will vote for amendments to this bill. In fact last week I personally met with the Senate's legal counsel who is an expert in legislative drafting. I directed him to draft a few amendments for us that will be introduced by others. The Minister of Industry, the Government Leader in the Senate, the Deputy Government Leader in the Senate and all of their staffs all know this is coming. They have given us the weight of a government bill to let us get it through. They gave us a framework and told us to go to town. This bill will get through only after Senator Milne is happy with it. THE 1911 AND 1916 CENSUES WILL BE RELEASED WITHOUT RESTRICTION. An amendment is currently being drafted to deal with exactly that issue. Dr. Fellegi has admitted to Senator Milne in my presence that the government will not try to argue that there are different legal circumstances for the 1911 and 1916 census than the 1906 census. We will bring that out in committee and use it to punch through an amendment. WE'VE ALREADY TOLD YOU WHAT THE WAIVER IS. The only thing that I have not done yet is actually post the waiver on the listserve. The Privy Council Office has extremely strict rules on how regulations can be handled. This is a problem with each and every bill that the government has. I have made myself look like a dolt trying to play dumb, trying to play smart, asking, pleading, and demanding that this waiver be released. If I release it Sen. Milne will be violating the Official Secrets Act. The only way it can be done legally is by the Pricy Council Office. I'm not ready to go to jail on this one folks. The Privy Council Office refuses regulations for ALL legislation and does not make exceptions. I can't make them budge. I have already said exactly what the waiver does, though. In its 94 words the waiver allows complete access to the records and limits publication to tombstone data such as name, address, age, sex, marital status, origin and occupation. I think that there was also a mention of the Copyright Act as well, but I haven't brought that up because genealogists have always had to follow the Copyright Act. But given the fact that this is the biggest sticking point of all I will go to the mountain once more and see what I can do. OPT IN VERSUS OPT OUT. Another amendment that is currently being drafted will specifically create the situation where those who do nothing will have their census forms sent to the National Archives. Privacy freaks will actually have to spend real energy to get their census out of the loop. If we did not have an informed consent for future censuses it would not have gone through cabinet. Pure and simple that is the 1 price we have to pay is informed consent. We would have lost at cabinet without it. It WAS that close. If we kill this part of the bill we will lose the backing of cabinet and the house of cards comes down. Do we really want to seal the deal to eliminate access to census material forever? WHO IS GOING TO ENFORCE THIS? Great question! Who is going to spend money on police for this? Great question! Who is going to spend cash to creat a bureaucracy? Great question! The answer is NOBODY. The only way that any penalty provisions will ever be enforced is if someone complains directly to Ivan Fellegi. In fact there is a deal in place where Stats Canada will only enforce this through complaints. There have been over 54 million hits to the Archives website for the 1901 and 1906 census and there has not been one complaint. The waiver and conditions will not affect people who just want to find their family. IS THERE STRATEGY GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES? Absolutely. I talk to Gordon Watts daily. Muriel talks to the Senator almost daily (not as much this week with renovations going on, though). We hosted a conference call to get the message out on the first day this bill was introduced in the hopes that we could explain what was happening and ask for some time and space to do our job. I've gone to lunch with potential witnesses on the bill to line up strategy and ensure we are all singing from the same song sheet. This is the biggest file in the office. Everywhere the Senator has gone for the last week she has been lining up Senators to get this thing worked out. Sometimes, though, we can't reveal everything we do as it all has to happen in a specific order. Folks I hope this better explains what we are doing here in the office. We are not going to let you down. We know how important this is. We know this is all about family and nothing could be more personal. All Senator Milne needs is a little more time and a little more trust. I hope that this gives everyone reason to give that to her. We have also been receiving lots of positive messages directly in our office. I would ask that those who support our point of view to please be a little more active on the listserve. I suspect that the debate has been one sided and would appreciate more interventions from the other side. Yours very truly, Jeff Paul Policy Advisor Office of the Hon. Lorna Milne

Searching for parents of Frank (Francis) Martin (possibly McMartin) born about 1840 in NY. Census info indicates his parents were born in Canada. My mother's recollections indicate her grandmother, Frank Martin's daughter, told her the family once owned the land the city of Montreal was established on. She was taken to a cathedral in Montreal on several occasions so I would assume a connection to the Catholic Religion. Frank Martin lived most of his life in Franklin Co. NY but I haven't been able to find any reference to his parents. The other possibility is that the family referred to by my g-grandmother would have been from her mother's side. Clarissa (Clarissee, Clarisey) Marshall born in NY about 1837 to Joseph Marshall (Marchal) born in Canada about 1810 and Christie McDonald. Both Joseph and Christie's parents were born in Canada. Joseph's father's name was Antoine Marshall. I'm new to Canadian research/history so any info that will point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. Robin Weinhold